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Everton, surely a points deduction?

JadeWolf

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Appeal over isn't it . Two weeks I think they may either stay the same or get more points taken, but because of double counting for this year may get nothing for that. It's a fair argument they are punished once and therefore that should be discounted probably for the next reporting year
But surely each three year rolling period is different?

In Everton’s case,

19/20, 20/21, 21/22- failed FFP
20/21, 21/22, 22/23- failed FFP
 

hollo

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777 partners who are looking to takeover lend Everton millions of pounds each month to keep things ticking over. I wonder what the interest rate is?
 

rincewind

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But surely each three year rolling period is different?

In Everton’s case,

19/20, 20/21, 21/22- failed FFP
20/21, 21/22, 22/23- failed FFP
Indeed, though they are saying they're being penalised twice for 20/21 & 21/22. Though that's implicit in the "rolling 3 years".
There's some argument that being punished twice in one season is perhaps unfair, as its the leagues fault the first penalty wasn't applied in a timely manner, though it would have relegated them last season.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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But surely each three year rolling period is different?

In Everton’s case,

19/20, 20/21, 21/22- failed FFP
20/21, 21/22, 22/23- failed FFP
The trouble is that if they thought they were operating in the rules in 21/22, but it transpired they weren't, and that decision wasn't made until after the end of 22/23, then it was too late for them to do anything about it.

The flaws in that for me are that they admitted they were over for 21/22, just argued the scale of the breach. They also could have played safe and assumed that their arguments wouldn't be accepted.

The lack of timely action is an issue exacerbated by a rolling 3 year scheme.

If the scale of the breach for 20-23 is not bigger than the 'extra breach' above what they acknowledged (ie the parts relating to the interest payments I think) of 19-22 I'd have some sympathy (not much though obviously!).

As pointed out before, if the punishment has been timely they'd have finished 19th, and even if it was rescued substantially, they'd have been relegated, so they can hardly complain having admitted a breach that should have relegated them.
 
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Madmalc

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777 partners who are looking to takeover lend Everton millions of pounds each month to keep things ticking over. I wonder what the interest rate is?
They are in such a mess if their income doesn't meet their outgoings by millions each month. The loans from external parties aren't turnover, so the interest rate becomes immaterial.
They aren't going to hit the 90%, 80% and 70% regulations..
 

Minimalist

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Indeed, though they are saying they're being penalised twice for 20/21 & 21/22. Though that's implicit in the "rolling 3 years".
There's some argument that being punished twice in one season is perhaps unfair, as its the leagues fault the first penalty wasn't applied in a timely manner, though it would have relegated them last season.
It’s perfectly fair for them to get punished twice, but I can see why it’s wrong for them to get both punishments in the same season.
Nevertheless, they knew what their own finances were, and how the rules were changing to speed it up.
They only have themselves to blame.

Last summer I’m sure Man Utd would have bought Pickford for £40m or more, rather than that liability they got. That would probably have pretty much put them back on track.
 

Ponty

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How can you correct it the next reporting year you can't really if you have hammered it. That's why they should have a massive penalty.

I'd argue it's like points on your.license
Sell Pickford!
 

Oh When the Wolves

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When do we find out how many points Villa are deducted too?

If they had to sell Ramsay by June, haven’t they missed the boat to do this? Window opens in july?
 

Fenrir_

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When do we find out how many points Villa are deducted too?

If they had to sell Ramsay by June, haven’t they missed the boat to do this? Window opens in july?
Summer window is 12 weeks long, so June-September and they still have time to sell. Most contracts tend to end on 30th June
 

SteveBullsKnee

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I said it in the summer when people were saying they wouldn’t get a points deduction which I was sure they would, it’s not that Everton simply broke the rules they blatantly disregarded them. Then despite warnings from the EPL they carried on doing it. I think clubs looked at the EPL as being a soft touch and a toothless tiger and they’ve used Everton to show they aren’t (and Forest to a lesser degree).
 

Fenrir_

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I said it in the summer when people were saying they wouldn’t get a points deduction which I was sure they would, it’s not that Everton simply broke the rules they blatantly disregarded them. Then despite warnings from the EPL they carried on doing it. I think clubs looked at the EPL as being a soft touch and a toothless tiger and they’ve used Everton to show they aren’t (and Forest to a lesser degree).
I wonder (and I've changed my stance on this a few times!) if this was the disagreement cited by Matt Hobbs with Lopetegui. After he left, Hobbs basically said it was a difference of opinion. So I wonder if Lopetegui thought breaking FFP would just amount to nothing, a transfer restriction and nothing more, but Hobbs said it was going to hit teams hard if they broke it

Total speculation, just trying to join dots!
 

WolfLing

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I wonder (and I've changed my stance on this a few times!) if this was the disagreement cited by Matt Hobbs with Lopetegui. After he left, Hobbs basically said it was a difference of opinion. So I wonder if Lopetegui thought breaking FFP would just amount to nothing, a transfer restriction and nothing more, but Hobbs said it was going to hit teams hard if they broke it

Total speculation, just trying to join dots!

I think it's part of it. Clubs were maybe a lot more blasé about FFP until this season, which moved the goalposts significantly and led to the fall out.
 

Sussex Wolf

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I said it in the summer when people were saying they wouldn’t get a points deduction which I was sure they would, it’s not that Everton simply broke the rules they blatantly disregarded them. Then despite warnings from the EPL they carried on doing it. I think clubs looked at the EPL as being a soft touch and a toothless tiger and they’ve used Everton to show they aren’t (and Forest to a lesser degree).

I think this is true. With the football regulator coming in, the PL was under pressure to demonstrate that it could manage its own affairs. FFP rules had been ignored and abused for years, with City likely the most blatant and impactful (if those charges are upheld) and Everton the most visible in recent times with their ridiculous Covid deduction. The clubs were reportedly warned in private that the league would be more aggressive, and some clubs like Leicester and Wolves did what was necessary. Everton and Forest didn’t, and they’ve been punished. Everton especially so, since they were warned previously and tried to hide their true finances.
 

SteveBullsKnee

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I wonder (and I've changed my stance on this a few times!) if this was the disagreement cited by Matt Hobbs with Lopetegui. After he left, Hobbs basically said it was a difference of opinion. So I wonder if Lopetegui thought breaking FFP would just amount to nothing, a transfer restriction and nothing more, but Hobbs said it was going to hit teams hard if they broke it

Total speculation, just trying to join dots!
There’s probably an element of truth in it. JL come across very much like Mourinho who wanted to push the budget as far as he possibly could, hence his comments pretty much after the previous season was still warm. Suppose we will never truly know. Only thing we absolutely know is he got it badly wrong what our prospects were and whilst his no doubt been paid handsomely in the meantime he probably deep down knows it was his mistake
 

SteveBullsKnee

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I think this is true. With the football regulator coming in, the PL was under pressure to demonstrate that it could manage its own affairs. FFP rules had been ignored and abused for years, with City likely the most blatant and impactful (if those charges are upheld) and Everton the most visible in recent times with their ridiculous Covid deduction. The clubs were reportedly warned in private that the league would be more aggressive, and some clubs like Leicester and Wolves did what was necessary. Everton and Forest didn’t, and they’ve been punished. Everton especially so, since they were warned previously and tried to hide their true finances.
I don’t think for one second the EPL actually wanted to clean its act up, they like the jolly boys club they created but a regulator coming in has rightly made them stand to attention.
 

Southdownswolf

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The way Chelsea are going, if they don't win the league cup, then they could be in big trouble.
No Europe for them would no doubt mean less sponsorship money and less other commercial revenue.
Players on 7/8 year contracts and big wages.
Already being investigated after admitting books were wrong.
Future isn't looking good for them.
 

topcat99

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The way Chelsea are going, if they don't win the league cup, then they could be in big trouble.
No Europe for them would no doubt mean less sponsorship money and less other commercial revenue.
Players on 7/8 year contracts and big wages.
Already being investigated after admitting books were wrong.
Future isn't looking good for them.

IMG_0221.jpeg
 

glorybox

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Everton should have had the points deduction last year and got relegated. If they don't want two lots of deductions this season then i suggest the points deduction is backdated to last season and they are retrospectively relegated this season regardless. with 4 clubs being promoted.
 

SquaddieWolf

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Everton should have had the points deduction last year and got relegated. If they don't want two lots of deductions this season then i suggest the points deduction is backdated to last season and they are retrospectively relegated this season regardless. with 4 clubs being promoted.
**** that, would give the 6 fingered ****s more chance of coming up
 

Sussex Wolf

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Everton should have had the points deduction last year and got relegated. If they don't want two lots of deductions this season then i suggest the points deduction is backdated to last season and they are retrospectively relegated this season regardless. with 4 clubs being promoted.

That’s exactly why the double deduction is fair this season despite the moans from the club and their celebrity friends. A lot of their fans who actually understand what they’ve done, when, agree they should be punished, but are just unhappy with how long it’s taking to punish Man City and Chelsea for likely far worse breaches of the rules. I doubt any football fan outside of those supporting City or Chelsea would disagree with that.
 

Bawtry Wolf

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That’s exactly why the double deduction is fair this season despite the moans from the club and their celebrity friends. A lot of their fans who actually understand what they’ve done, when, agree they should be punished, but are just unhappy with how long it’s taking to punish Man City and Chelsea for likely far worse breaches of the rules. I doubt any football fan outside of those supporting City or Chelsea would disagree with that.
It’s outrageous how long it’s taken for Man City and Chelsea to be punished. However, Everton or Forest citing them is classic whataboutery - if you commit an offence you can’t argue that it’s not your turn in court.
 

WickedWolfie

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It’s outrageous how long it’s taken for Man City and Chelsea to be punished. However, Everton or Forest citing them is classic whataboutery - if you commit an offence you can’t argue that it’s not your turn in court.
Of course before you can punish Citeh or Chavski you need the evidence to prove them guilty....
 

Brian Law’s buses

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Everton should have had the points deduction last year and got relegated. If they don't want two lots of deductions this season then i suggest the points deduction is backdated to last season and they are retrospectively relegated this season regardless. with 4 clubs being promoted.
What if the 4th promoted team happens to be WBA?
 

wolvesjoe

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wolfgar

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Still not sure what Samuel is referring to here.

Less stringent cap, 80,,% rather than 70%?

Any ideas?
As people keep pointing out to him, they knowlingly broke whatever those rules were at the time. Others didn't. Bit late to complain that they were no good anyway.
 

theweave

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Still not sure what Samuel is referring to here.

Less stringent cap, 80,,% rather than 70%?

Any ideas?
I think the Premier League are considering increasing the allowed losses as the amount of tv money has vastly increased since they set it at 105 million. However the rules were the rules at that time so not sure how its a bit rich. It would be like saying we should go back and give a free kick for every time the keepers used to pick up a back pass
 

Werewolf of Wombourne

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It’s outrageous how long it’s taken for Man City and Chelsea to be punished. However, Everton or Forest citing them is classic whataboutery - if you commit an offence you can’t argue that it’s not your turn in court.
Chelsea haven't been charged with anything yet, they are just under investigation, so they can't be punished.

The Man City case is completely different to Everton & Forest. City are being charged with a series of serious and complex financial frauds. it's not as simple as counting losses. These charges will take far longer to fully prove
 
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