Everton, surely a points deduction?

[WolfLing]

Agree, it’s not that simple. Could argue that blatantly breaking rules is the lesser crime than seeing and acknowledging rules, then trying to subvert them, while obstructing the investigation every step of the way.
That’s what I was referring to, they’ve shocked us all by actually dishing out a proper punishment for Everton. Their breaches weren’t anywhere near as severe as Citeh’s, if take all the inflated sponsorships and related 3rd party payments away from their real bottom line.
So it should be an even greater punishment.

Yeah, it should be a greater punishment as it's not just disregarding PL rules, it's allegedly fraud.

Everton's was an open and shut case, as despite there being a dispute over the figures used in the calculations, the figure Everton put forward as their version still broke the £105m loss limit by roughly £11m. That's effectively an admission of guilt. Despite cooking the books as much as possible, they still couldn't get the figure within the limits!!

City's will be different. The PL have to prove that they have inflated sponsorship deals and revenues to pass the FFP tests. Man City won their CAS appeal from being banned from Europe on the basis that those allegations were unproven. Some charges were also time-bound, which doesn't apply to the PL, but they still have to prove what has allegedly been done.

Man City's lawyer for all this is a Lord (Lord Pannick), with a £10,000 hourly rate, being paid for by Abu-Dhabi.

I just can't see how the PL will obtain the evidence they will need to make the accusations stick.

 

[cannockwolves]

It will galvanise the players and fans.

Given the relative weakness of the promoted clubs this season I still think they will stay up, it might be tight but Burnley, Luton, and Sheffield may struggle to get 25 points the way its going. Without this deduction Everton would be on course to get 43/44 points.

They may be 3 or 4 points down on that now, but 36 points should be more than enough this season to keep you up.

Over the last ten Premier League seasons, 36 points would have been enough to keep you in the Premier League in all but two of them.

They will be fine.

 

[Jefe]

Good, means our club did the right thing in getting the house in order this summer. Also pushes us even further clear of relegation trouble. Should be a lot of Wolves fans feeling a lot more comfortable than a couple of months ago.

Depends on how you look at it. I am certainly confident now that we will survive, the sides below us are too weak and have too much ground to gain. And so perhaps Fosun's plan has bore fruit, but our extreme and sudden belt-tightening to avoid breaching FFP cost us a lot besides that, including our manager. Ridiculously, a 10 point deduction for Everton's violation of FFP somehow only sees them two points from safety (assuming that is not reduced on appeal). They could be back above the waterline as early as next Sunday! And potentially with a siege mentality moving forward. Everton football club in all likelihood will be able to shrug this punishment off in time.

 

[lets all have a disco]

If Chelsea and City get done.....the way we are going we all might be going on a European tour...(again).....

 

[WISAW]

Haven't Vile and forest run the spending close to there threshold as well?

 

[djmikeydickens]

They'll stay up. Makes no difference this season. Leeds and saints must be fuming

 

[hankin]

Haven't Vile and forest run the spending close to there threshold as well?

Villa sold Grealish for £100m so that probably helped.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Well done Jeff Shi, we needed a good clearout!

Shi as a laxative..... Yup, l could see that, lol.....

 

[WolvTown]

They've got a good chance, but this league isn't easy. This news will give the other lower teams a massive confidence boost, and those Everton players will look at the massive amount of work they’ve put in, suddenly evaporate.
They are one player away from going down imo, they couldn't respond to losing their striker for a few months to injury.

The massive amount of work Wolves have had to put in to get to 15 points, imagine suddenly being back on 5 points today! I'd be dead right now with worry!!!!

 

[WickedWolfie]

Partly because they managed to get away with using Covid to mitigate more losses than was probably reasonable.

I seem to recall reading that their claimed CV losses were about the same level as the claims of the rest of the PL combined.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Everton could be chased for a lot of compensation.

The chair of the commission, David Phillips KC, also referenced applications for financial compensation from current Premier League clubs Burnley and Nottingham Forest and last season's relegated sides, Leicester City, Leeds United and Southampton.

 

[WISAW]

Villa sold Grealish for £100m so that probably helped.

Damn.

 

[WickedWolfie]

They've got a good chance, but this league isn't easy. This news will give the other lower teams a massive confidence boost, and those Everton players will look at the massive amount of work they’ve put in, suddenly evaporate.
They are one player away from going down imo, they couldn't respond to losing their striker for a few months to injury.

I would imagine, if their finances are still fragile and they have new vulture-capital owners, that some bids for their better players will come in January. Be interesting to see if they are resisted.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

We will stay up now

Makes the bottom 5 clubs an interesting chase for survival

 

[Chris H]

Listening to Kieran Maguire on Sky, it sounds like it's not even transfer related.

It's to do with the interest from a loan from Moshiri over the stadium. Saying it's a 'technical point' from an accounting perspective.

Seems very harsh in truth when listening to him break it down.

I’d suggest they’ve done well to write £370m losses down to “only” £124.5m after excluding as many things as they could which are outside of the P&S relevant costs and/or claiming covid related losses on another chunk of it.

Even then they admit they’d still have broken it, just by a smaller margin than the PL believe.

So whilst it may be harsh that this aspect hasn’t been allowed for by the PL how much else did the PL already let go to get down to that level?

Pretty sure they claimed covid related losses to be over £100m. That was more than double the next club to declare their covid losses in their accounts (Villa at £53m). By comparison we valued ours at £17m odd I believe. Given we were in Europe and they weren’t how they can justify theirs being so much higher than ours I’ve no idea.

 

[Fenrir_]

Makes our entire summer justified. Nice one Jeff and Matt
It was rough and the uncertainty killed us but now we are on the otherside I really hope more clubs get punished.

Maybe puts us ahead of the curve too if other clubs suddenly get spooked by this

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I’d suggest they’ve done well to write £370m losses down to “only” £124.5m after excluding as many things as they could which are outside of the P&S relevant costs and/or claiming covid related losses on another chunk of it.

Even then they admit they’d still have broken it, just by a smaller margin than the PL believe.

So whilst it may be harsh that this aspect hasn’t been allowed for by the PL how much else did the PL already let go to get down to that level?

Pretty sure they claimed covid related losses to be over £100m. That was more than double the next club to declare their covid losses in their accounts (Villa at £53m). By comparison we valued ours at £17m odd I believe. Given we were in Europe and they weren’t how they can justify theirs being so much higher than ours I’ve no idea.

Villa are fine for the time being they sold homegrown products for decent ish money then can spend freely for 12 months but the next year or two will be interesting when the next lot of books roll over. They aren’t clear same for Man Utd. Touch and go on them two if they continue to break the 100m spending every window.

While we can sit back and smoke the fat Cuban cigars, especially if we cash in on Neto, Fabio, Podence, Guedes, Ait-Nouri £160m a nice margin would get us some decent looking financial books and players of course.. Not saying to sell Neto but big offer comes 70m+ It will most likely be taken very seriously

Should the above happen it would clear the way for the clubs future financially for many years. When you take into account the prem money, sponsorships. We could be ahead of the curve here.

Other clubs will probably be bricking it. Mostly villa, man utd, Bournemouth, forest, chelsea, Newcastle and spurs I would imagine

 

[Corporate Wolf]

Well the Premier League have now set a precedent. Let's hope that it is applied consistently and fairly.

 

[arctic rime]

Good !

 

[Ned]

There’s something about this ruling that I’m uncomfortable with. It almost 100% suits all parties involved this season; Everton will easily stay up with the bottom of the table as bad as it is, the PL have been seen to have acted and they’ve also set a precedent for future rule breaks.

It’s all been wrapped up nicely, like a good murder mystery and everybody involved can effectively relax knowing that nothing has really changed.

What I would say is that it’s made our summer look like a very good idea.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

If that is Everton's punishment, might Citeh be stripped of a few titles and relegated to non-League with immediate effect? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Break the rules, face the consequences

 

[WW1963]

I’d suggest they’ve done well to write £370m losses down to “only” £124.5m after excluding as many things as they could which are outside of the P&S relevant costs and/or claiming covid related losses on another chunk of it.

Even then they admit they’d still have broken it, just by a smaller margin than the PL believe.

So whilst it may be harsh that this aspect hasn’t been allowed for by the PL how much else did the PL already let go to get down to that level?

Pretty sure they claimed covid related losses to be over £100m. That was more than double the next club to declare their covid losses in their accounts (Villa at £53m). By comparison we valued ours at £17m odd I believe. Given we were in Europe and they weren’t how they can justify theirs being so much higher than ours I’ve no idea.

Because there were no sales allowed during the Covid break. Richarlison was valued at 80m but his value plummeted by the time they could sell him.

Just heard a couple of squeaking dolphins say this on Toffee TV YouTube.

They are absolutely raging at the injustice of it all.

 

[Wombat]

Are Wolves going to be caught up in this scandal?

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Lol did I see Forest are suing for compensation? Why? Typical forest

 

[justanotherwolf]

Listening to Kieran Maguire on Sky, it sounds like it's not even transfer related.

It's to do with the interest from a loan from Moshiri over the stadium. Saying it's a 'technical point' from an accounting perspective.

Seems very harsh in truth when listening to him break it down.

I have a lot of time for Maguire, and if this is true it really does stink. Using a technicality to apply a slap on the wrist while avoiding the real crime. Typical of the Premier league. They want to retain the bigger clubs. 10 pt deduction is not harsh. They will easily survive this year.

If that's how Sky are reporting it that's wilfully misleading.

I've actually read the full decision and it makes clear time and time again that, despite Everton's contention otherwise, the rules breach is mainly due to both Everton continuing to spend on transfer fees (despite the warning from PL in Summer 2021) and selling players for less than target value or not at all.

As the report states, Everton made a conscious decision to take chances with its 'PSR' position and the breach is entirely of its own making.

That Everton tried on various 'technicality' grounds (ranging from spurious to speculative and occasionally valid) to 'get off' is an aggravating, not mitigating factor.

 

[SuperGran]

Lol did I see Forest are suing for compensation? Why? Typical forest

Is MGW a witness again

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

If that's how Sky are reporting it that's wilfully misleading.

I've actually read the full decision and it makes clear time and time again that, despite Everton's contention otherwise, the rules breach is mainly due to both Everton continuing to spend on transfer fees (despite the warning from PL in Summer 2021) and selling players for less than target value or not at all.

As the report states, Everton made a conscious decision to take chances with its 'PSR' position and the breach is entirely of its own making.

That Everton tried on various 'technicality' grounds (ranging from spurious to speculative and occasionally valid) to 'get off' is an aggravating, not mitigating factor.

Thanks mate - that's really interesting to read.

They clearly tried to cheat. They got caught. I desperately hope they don't get off.

 

[SA Wolf]

Glad Everton have received a points deduction and hope any appeal (which there will surely be) is unsuccessful. They will still escape relegation, though as there are at least three worse teams which they can overtake.

 

[wolfie_tc]

There’s something about this ruling that I’m uncomfortable with. It almost 100% suits all parties involved this season; Everton will easily stay up with the bottom of the table as bad as it is, the PL have been seen to have acted and they’ve also set a precedent for future rule breaks.

It’s all been wrapped up nicely, like a good murder mystery and everybody involved can effectively relax knowing that nothing has really changed.

This 100%

Everton will put in a half-hearted appeal to show face but in actuality will be thrilled at the outcome, knowing they could have had it for last year, causing a relegation.

I think the Prem have thought about all this, they want to make an example of them but without actually affecting a relegation outcome, It all feels a bit like a couple of chums have reached an agreement over some cigars and whisky.

If anything though I feel a bit embarrassed of our summer, instead we could have just carried on, signed a bunch more £20m+ signings because all we'd be looking at is a points deduction which, if those signings work out (big if I'm aware..) wouldn't mean a single thing.

 

[wwbug]

Is it fair ?
They would have been demoted over the last two seasons with that 10 point deduction and another club was robbed of their place in the sun.
The effect on their team and this league was in previous years.

 

[Willywolf]

Lol did I see Forest are suing for compensation? Why? Typical forest

Because they spent a shedload on ****e and may need to recoup some cash if they find themselves under scrutiny? You’re right though, typical forest. I’d be mad as hell if I were a Leeds or Leicester supporter today.

 

[jrpb-3]

As they were 9 pts clear of relegation zone and now 2 pts from safety. if form of bottom clubs continues in a similar way so so far they will probably be safe by 7or 8 pts by the end of the season.

How does the 10 pt deduction compare to punishment of other clubs who have had points deductions ?

Where are Everton now with regard to FFP for the up coming year, (if their big losses move out of the rolling window there will be in improvement if they made a smaller loss, or more profit that year than they will this one then they will be in a worse position ?

 

[brianm]

A ten point deduction this season is pretty funny. Just a little juice for the relegation race. It's like they were determined to make this inconsequential.

 

[SA Wolf]

Just our ****ing luck that we were already ahead of Everton in the league, so don't benefit from their points deduction, like a lot of the clubs below us.

 

[SA Wolf]

A lot of clubs, including those relegated last season are taking legal advice, I would think.

 

[lobodelsur]

I’d suggest they’ve done well to write £370m losses down to “only” £124.5m after excluding as many things as they could which are outside of the P&S relevant costs and/or claiming covid related losses on another chunk of it.

It seems to me that the PL have been complicit in finding a solution that is 'acceptable' to Everton. The deal with Usmanov (who shouldn't be near a football club, so was financing Everton thru' Moshiri) to rename the new stadium after his company USM and worth 200 million seems to be the major factor in this huge write down. Their 'Covid losses' claim is simply unrealistic.
10 points is manageable for Everton and will probably be reduced to 6 or 8 on appeal in order to ensure that the apple-cart is not upset...

 

[justanotherwolf]

Because there were no sales allowed during the Covid break. Richarlison was valued at 80m but his value plummeted by the time they could sell him.

Just heard a couple of squeaking dolphins say this on Toffee TV YouTube.

They are absolutely raging at the injustice of it all.

That's also covered off in the report - the PL had already allowed Everton to dis-count a HUGE sum for COVID and STILL they breached the limits. The sums they got for players were 'market forces' and not directly related to COVID.

Also as the report points out, 'target' prices are not the same as prices that buyers are willing to pay - obviously the calculations must be based on prices actually received, not what the previous Everton DoF thought they could have got if other clubs really wanted their players.

 

[lobodelsur]

Well the Premier League have now set a precedent. Let's hope that it is applied consistently and fairly.

Dream on.

 

[Jawwfc]

Villa sold Grealish for £100m so that probably helped.

They also got decent money for Archer and the kid who went to Chelsea both home grown talents so very good for FFP.