Everton, surely a points deduction?

[AndyWolves]

It’s more nuanced than just looking at total transfer fees. You need to factor in amortisation - i.e what transfer fees they’re paying over a length of a contract.

Plus wages and actual profit / loss from footballing activities.

Everton having to take out loans for operation costs are getting absolutely chinned by interest payments on the loans.

 

[Stourport wolf]

They'll be spitting mad, lol....

Forrest fans will all be logging on their forums tomorrow to see what has happened with FFP. A few branches of their supporters clubs are meant to be arranging whip rounds. The rest haven't twigged on yet, but it is thought they also wood also chip in when they have been nformed what is happening.

 

[Skrilla]

If there were only going to breach slightly then they would have simply sold a player or two to olympiakos. The fact they didnt suggest their breach is likely to be a big number

You can't artificially inflate the value of a player with another club that you own. Fair value and all that...

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The €75m last season is Transfermarkt's market value of the players that departed; Forest only brought in €5m from Brice Samba and 15 players worth of loan fees.
I doubt they got over €70m in loan fees to the likes of Cov, Guincamp and Wednesday.

22/23: €190m net spend

A lot worse than first thought. They could get a really big points deduction then…. Oh dear, what’s the max 15/20? Wow

 

[WickedWolfie]

Forrest fans will all be logging on their forums tomorrow to see what has happened with FFP. A few branches of their supporters clubs are meant to be arranging whip rounds. The rest haven't twigged on yet, but it is thought they also wood also chip in when they have been nformed what is happening.

They can't beleaf it now that they've twigged...

 

[Wolf in the Lions' Den]

Forrest fans will all be logging on their forums tomorrow to see what has happened with FFP. A few branches of their supporters clubs are meant to be arranging whip rounds. The rest haven't twigged on yet, but it is thought they also wood also chip in when they have been nformed what is happening.

Sadly for them, money does not grow on Trees.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

I would love it tomorrow if it said Villa are in breach and need to start selling players .

 

[theweave]

Isn’t it 90m? Lol

61 million is the most they allowed to lose

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Forest and Everton are in the **** tbh

Luton genuinely may have a chance of staying up, but every side outside of Brighton and spurs ATM are are all worried about ffp.

There won't be a huge spend next summer for most , we should be ok to go bigger and Gon alluded to this previously that he will be able to after talks with shi


Newcastle big trouble will have to sell likely didn't get far enough in champs and not looking at another European season

 

[Northampton_wolf]

61 million is the most they allowed to lose

Forest are likely miles off could be looking down the barrel of 10 points , they can lawyer up but as stated from Everton hearing , choosing when to sell a player for benefit of value is no argument

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

A lot worse than first thought. They could get a really big points deduction then…. Oh dear, what’s the max 15/20? Wow

Do point deductions reflect the size of the overspend?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Do point deductions reflect the size of the overspend?

Apparently what someone else said on here the penalty could be more severe for sure

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Has he had a Lopetegui/fosun situation where they had convinced him they were in no danger of breaching ffp. Wonder if Nuno could walk if thats the situation.

He surely knew the situation before he joined though? People have been talking about Forest and FFP since the summer. Personally think it was the Mendes influence, he’s very involved in Forest these days and he’s got his pet manager in who likes signing his players.

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Unless I'm missing something, or I'm very much mistaken, the bookies seem to have removed Everton and Forest from their relegation odds???

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Unless I'm missing something, or I'm very much mistaken, the bookies seem to have removed Everton and Forest from their relegation odds???

Yes they have. I wonder why

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Yes they have. I wonder why

They've caught wind of an imminent announcement would be my guess, and have gone into damage limitation mode.

 

[WinchWolf]

They can't beleaf it now that they've twigged...

If they think anyone is rooting for them they are genuinely barking. I hope it saps them of all fight and they go down without the impact of a points deduction.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Unless I'm missing something, or I'm very much mistaken, the bookies seem to have removed Everton and Forest from their relegation odds???

Ha ha Sky have 'event not available' maybe nobody is going down!

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

On the Forest forum, their fans are expecting the worse, and to be fair a lot of them are asking how the football club allowed this to happen.

Exactly how I would be. I was dubious of the FFP reasons Wolves gave for their spend this summer but turns out to be a wise wise move

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Do point deductions reflect the size of the overspend?

Never take my word for anything, but part of the issue Everton had was that the penalties were vague and not specifically defined. I think they were hoping for a financial penalty for breaking financial rules, which would have been be a farce.

So the PL decided to make guidance on the rule which is 6pts and 1 additional point for every £5m, Everton were found to be £19m over, although they admitted to about £7m I think so the appeal is a bit of a joke. The PL gave them 6+19/5=10 pt deduction.

If Forest were to be £30m over I think it would be 6+30/5=12 pt deduction. They won't be though, people are still adding up transfer deficits, which is meaningless and why they can't understand how , for example, Chelsea operate.

Will be interesting tomorrow though for sure.

I can't see we can be in trouble if Neves is in these accounts. Or that Forest's defence makes any sense, some of the rules are a bit odd, but nonetheless they are the rules. Everton were always bound to be in trouble as they (apparently) miscalculated their 21/22 loses and by the time that was cleared up, they'd finished 22/23, so were never going to be able to sort it out!

That's my take anyway!

 

[Stourport wolf]

He surely knew the situation before he joined though? People have been talking about Forest and FFP since the summer. Personally think it was the Mendes influence, he’s very involved in Forest these days and he’s got his pet manager in who likes signing his players.

You have to remember too that Mendes makes money selling players.

 

[dizzydonut]

The €75m last season is Transfermarkt's market value of the players that departed; Forest only brought in €5m from Brice Samba and 15 players worth of loan fees.
I doubt they got over €70m in loan fees to the likes of Cov, Guincamp and Wednesday.

22/23: €190m net spend

Don’t you need to deduct premier league income?

 

[dnf14]

Forest's FFP thread

There is precedence for this. Everton tried to use the richarlison defence the same way we are gonna try and use the BJ sale. If they are pinning their hopes on something that already has precedence than we are even more stupid than what we are at this current state.

It shouldn’t even be talked about FFP. The accounts should have gone in and we passed. Pathetic by the board this. I’m so so angry with them. If we go down than they’ve thrown it away with their actions.

At least some people over there are recognizing how stupid their defense is.

 

[dnf14]

Don’t you need to deduct premier league income?

This is just adding and subtracting transfer fees spent and received, other incomes don't factor in here.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Anybody know what time tomorrow they announce what action they are taking?

 

[BlahBlah]

Everton having to take out loans for operation costs are getting absolutely chinned by interest payments on the loans.

Irrespective of any FFP stuff, Everton (and Forest obviously) have been splurging on expensive players instead of sorting out their operating costs which is baseline for any business..
Unless you get a very very cheap rate of interest, you don't pay for business operating costs with loans...it's basically telling everybody you can't run a business, have maxed out other loans taken to buy assets, and you're on the road to bankruptcy.
Who would invest in that, unless it's a distressed asset to be got at a knockdown price laden with debt?

I see Sean Dyche has come out and said the original charges "came out of the blue" although they were about 20% over the cap.
There have been fan websites run by supporters predicting this for years just by using transfer fee reports and a *******' calculator.
What were Everton themselves doing?

Lets not forget where all this came from. In the UK the change of rules to make sure that the taxpayer was not put at the back of the queue if clubs went bust, when dodgy owners just assumed any tax debt to the UK could just be ignored and the impact went on public services and loss of wealth for the country. HMRC can now shut them down if they think they're going to leave a trail of debt behind them....like with any other company in the UK in times of public hardship and a country on its backside regarding wealth.
FFP is just designed to make clubs who insist on running as a business without interference from any competition regulators, run as a business under safe financial rules.
And the rules are about maximum debt incurred....nobody's stopping them from borrowing or setting up whatever financial borrowing mechanisms they like to run their business...they're just saying when you go into dangerous territory we will punish you, so don't do it.
If a club is going over 105 million debt in 3 years (and that doesn't take into account overall debt which could be a lot lot higher), then it's pointing out that things are being run very badly right now. They have had a 3 year window, and should have taken action well before now to reduce debt...like Wolves did.

 

[Dubwolf71]

Anybody know what time tomorrow they announce what action they are taking?

-10am

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Can I just randomly chip in as an aside how daft I find it when people describe the fan bases of other clubs as various things. They are just a mixed bunch of human beings just like us. If you believed this forum at times every other club is supported by arrogant, entitled, cheating morons and we're all a bunch of saints. I'm sure all forums have this, it's just a bit ridiculous (at best).

You can feel sorry for them, or the fans of previously relegated clubs who stuck to the rules, but no fan is responsible for a cheating or incompetent owner.

 

[Stourport wolf]

Maybe our owners deserve some credit, for getting our house in order over the summer. It is true that we got ourselves in to a mess, but so did most teams by the look of it, but if we are in the clear, then I think the club deserve some credit, because they took a hell of a lot of flack during the summer, but by the looks of it, they knew what they were doing and got their act together.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

That aged well

Haha.... well, maybe.... but we'll never know for sure!

 

[Southdownswolf]

FFP isn't just the 6pts + 1pt for every £5m over...
There is also the matter of wages/total income.
I think - but not certain of current rule - wages can only be a maximum of 90% value of income. Therefore if a club has higher wages than that, then there could be a further pts deduction.
This is where there has been mention of Chelsea possibly, but probably not, being in breach of the regulations. They are certainly close to 90%.
Forest may also be close.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Honestly shouldn't be rejoicing the fact other teams are getting slammed with this nonsense when there is zero doubt bigger clubs are in breach also but not getting hit.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

FFP isn't just the 6pts + 1pt for every £5m over...
There is also the matter of wages/total income.
I think - but not certain of current rule - wages can only be a maximum of 90% value of income. Therefore if a club has higher wages than that, then there could be a further pts deduction.
This is where there has been mention of Chelsea possibly, but probably not, being in breach of the regulations. They are certainly close to 90%.
Forest may also be close.

90% of income on player wages and amortisation only comes into the PL for this season doesn't it - i.e. 23/24 accounts not the ones coming out tomorrow?

 

[Southdownswolf]

90% of income on player wages and amortisation only comes into the PL for this season doesn't it - i.e. 23/24 accounts not the ones coming out tomorrow?

Not sure, but I thought it was on these accounts, then this season is 80% and next season 70%.
However, you may well be right and I'm a year out on those years/figures.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

The Mix is in pieces when Garth Crooks' team of the week gets published so **** knows what the state of the place would be like if we got points docked

And we have the audacity to criticise other fanbases ffs

 

[VancouverWolf]

We fired Sellars who was part the reason we had to have the fire sale. Jeff didn’t have a clue. Thankfully the right people stepped up. I.E Hobbs

Jeff doesn’t have a clue?……….surely you’re not serious?

 

[VancouverWolf]

Literally nobody on the Mix

Nobody?……not everybody was panicking.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Honestly shouldn't be rejoicing the fact other teams are getting slammed with this nonsense when there is zero doubt bigger clubs are in breach also but not getting hit.

No kidding.

City were banned for two years from Europe by UEFA , ( but for their army of lawyers) and have about 100 PL violations stillto be sorted out……
………100? ….really?

Somethings is very lopsided……makes my blood boil.

 

[Dingle Chris]

Let’s just hope we’re not one of the teams in trouble. All the reports look like it’s close, but close is fine.

 

[WW1963]

I feel for the fans of any club that went down as a result of Everton’s consistent over spending

Toffee TV were blaming the building of the new ground, the Russia/Ukraine war and Covid.

Not a mention of any details such as a shady former owner, Covid costing them £100m more in losses than most other clubs - some with much bigger grounds - and spaffing £500m on average players in three seasons.

Those average players gave them a sufficient advantage to have condemned other clubs that were playing within the rules.

Instead of taking responsibility, they attack the Premier league for having a vendetta against their club. That's the same Premier league that should have hit them ages ago and certainly saved their backside last season.

They already should be languishing in the lower reaches of the Championship.