Chem Campbell

[Skrilla]

I know I've raised this before but when was the last time an academy graduate was a regular starter for Wolves? Over the years we seem to produce tons of up and coming youngsters but none make it and, possibly like Campbell, go out on loan and then be sold to Walsall or Kidderminster. If Fosun do a cost/benefit analysis of the academy, even in their 5 year tenure, they will have had little or no financial return. I know you can argue it gives the Club cudos (sp?) and attraction but from a financial view-point it must lose millions.

It only takes one player to break through for it to be worthwhile.

 

[AndyWolves]

Running the academy?! OK, Goncalves and Otasowie have raised a few millions but how much has it cost Fosun to run and man the academy in their 5 years here? Is the academy there for finding and developing young players who will play for Wolves or is it to generate funds by finding kids and selling on?

Both?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

It only takes one player to break through for it to be worthwhile.

Gibbs White looked as if he could have this season.................but although we were light on players they decided to shkp him out on loan.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Both?

Andy play the game. When someone asks you an either or question you cnat say both. I say this to you in case you have to go on a quiz programme in the future.

 

[optimuswolf]

Running the academy?! OK, Goncalves and Otasowie have raised a few millions but how much has it cost Fosun to run and man the academy in their 5 years here? Is the academy there for finding and developing young players who will play for Wolves or is it to generate funds by finding kids and selling on?

Both?

I doubt its paid its way though, as of yet nor has it produced 1st team players for us.

Before MGW (fringe) you're looking at iorfa, price and EEL at a push. None being big players for us.

 

[Huyton W88lvo]

Sent off today .Second booking kicking the ball away

 

[Contrarian]

Running the academy?! OK, Goncalves and Otasowie have raised a few millions but how much has it cost Fosun to run and man the academy in their 5 years here? Is the academy there for finding and developing young players who will play for Wolves or is it to generate funds by finding kids and selling on?

As the commentators keep reminding us if you watch them, Brentford don't even have an academy! But then Brentford are one of the rare genuinely innovative clubs in a very conservative business dominated by "doing things the way everybody else does the way we've always done them".

For those who missed the commentators mentioning more than they mention Kilman playing Futsal:

Brentford B Team Model: Why the Bees Don't Have an Academy

Discover the reason why Brentford got rid of their academy and instead implemented a Brentford 'B' team which doesn't belong to any leagues.

sqaf.club

 

[John Williams]

Didn’t manage to get to the game today, but watched most of it on the app. Similar frustration today, flashes of brilliance interspersed with pulling out of challenges and frustrating decision making, I stand by the statement he needs to go out on loan.

 

[AndyWolves]

Didn’t manage to get to the game today, but watched most of it on the app. Similar frustration today, flashes of brilliance interspersed with pulling out of challenges and frustrating decision making, I stand by the statement he needs to go out on loan.

He needs summat, definitely.

Maybe even a loan where he doesn't play much so he values what he's got

Who would have him though?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Far too lightweight in u23 football nowhere near ready for the first team unfortunately has the ability only he will be able to decide how good he wants to be

 

[Contrarian]

It only takes one player to break through for it to be worthwhile.

How much does it cost per year to run the academy? Brentford got rid of theres, saying it was costing £2M a year to run, with little chance of recouping that. I would imagine ours costs a lot more than that, too.

 

[Skrilla]

Gibbs White looked as if he could have this season.................but although we were light on players they decided to shkp him out on loan.

Yep, a bizarre decision if we run into injuries, but you have to assume there's a clause in his loan deal that he needs to start every game at Sheffield United or it will trigger a recall. A full season at that level would do him wonders, playing under a decent manager there as well in Jokanovic but they've made a poor start back to life in the Championship.

 

[Skrilla]

How much does it cost per year to run the academy? Brentford got rid of theres, saying it was costing £2M a year to run, with little chance of recouping that. I would imagine ours costs a lot more than that, too.

How much does it cost us to realistically upgrade our first-team squad now? Sven Botman £35m quoted, Renato Sanches £30m, Guedes reportedly would have cost us £30m. The bar is set that high now, that just one player coming through would make a massive difference and make it worthwhile. Kilman and MGW took different routes through our academy, but both have a very good chance (more so Kilman), of saving us a lot of money in the future that can be invested in other positions of priority.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Yep, a bizarre decision if we run into injuries, but you have to assume there's a clause in his loan deal that he needs to start every game at Sheffield United or it will trigger a recall. A full season at that level would do him wonders, playing under a decent manager there as well in Jokanovic but they've made a poor start back to life in the Championship.

I dont believe you could actually put a clause like that in a contract or that one club would even sign it. If he doesn't play though we can recall him in January as Nuno did and then hardly played him.
I agree that a full season could do him the world of good but as a team I think at the moment it weakens us.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

How much does it cost us to realistically upgrade our first-team squad now? Sven Botman £35m quoted, Renato Sanches £30m, Guedes reportedly would have cost us £30m. The bar is set that high now, that just one player coming through would make a massive difference and make it worthwhile. Kilman and MGW took different routes through our academy, but both have a very good chance (more so Kilman), of saving us a lot of money in the future that can be invested in other positions of priority.

I have a very strong feeling that if Nuno was still our manager Kilman would not be here. I think if Nuno had not dropped him all the time he would be ahead in his development now.

 

[Skrilla]

I have a very strong feeling that if Nuno was still our manager Kilman would not be here. I think if Nuno had not dropped him all the time he would be ahead in his development now.

There's no point dwelling on what Nuno would have done, Lage clearly rates him and that's all that matters at this point. The fact he's arguably our best centre half at the moment shows development-wise he's exactly where we need him to be. The bigger problem is who's pairing him if we move to a back four, Boly is injury prone and Mosquera next to Kilman isn't giving you a whole lot of experience in a two.

If Boly gets injured again, we're probably stuck with the back five, and you should never have to change from your preferred system to suit certain players, as we have done so far this season. This also doesn't take into consideration that both Boly and Saiss will be off for AFCON duty for the entirety of January.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

There's no point dwelling on what Nuno would have done, Lage clearly rates him and that's all that matters at this point. The fact he's arguably our best centre half at the moment shows development-wise he's exactly where we need him to be. The bigger problem is who's pairing him if we move to a back four, Boly is injury prone and Mosquera next to Kilman isn't giving you a whole lot of experience in a two.

If Boly gets injured again, we're probably stuck with the back five, and you should never have to change from your preferred system to suit certain players, as we have done so far this season. This also doesn't take into consideration that both Boly and Saiss will be off for AFCON duty for the entirety of January.

My post was more aimed at giving Kilman and Bruno the credit.
The problem lies in the fact that Bruno does not have the players yet he needs to utilise his best playing style.

 

[Skrilla]

My post was more aimed at giving Kilman and Bruno the credit.
The problem lies in the fact that Bruno does not have the players yet he needs to utilise his best playing style.

Fully agree.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Andy play the game. When someone asks you an either or question you cnat say both. I say this to you in case you have to go on a quiz programme in the future.

As you say, cop out answer. As I said earlier who was the last academy player to make his name at Wolves? As no one answered I'd say Matt Murray and before that Joleon and Robbie Keane. All top players but hardly a distinguished record since then. Our academy is certainly not a revenue earning part of the Club. Whether that is important to Fosun who knows but I would expect all areas of the club under these owners to turn a profit.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Sorry, forgot about Kilman whom I rate very, very highly. The way his career goes could answer my earlier question; if he makes good progress will Fosun sell him next season to cash in or develop him further into a potential captain of our club?

 

[John Williams]

He needs summat, definitely.

Maybe even a loan where he doesn't play much so he values what he's got

Who would have him though?

I reckon he’d be a decent option off the bench for a league 1 side

 

[JOSWolf]

From seeing Campbell in the u23's and his impressive cameo when he came on in the friendly at Coventry he strikes me as a player who does better with more experience around him.

He looks a bit too casual for me in u23's games but when he came on at Coventry he looked busy and skill full with good movement both on and off the ball.

 

[Contrarian]

How much does it cost us to realistically upgrade our first-team squad now? Sven Botman £35m quoted, Renato Sanches £30m, Guedes reportedly would have cost us £30m. The bar is set that high now, that just one player coming through would make a massive difference and make it worthwhile. Kilman and MGW took different routes through our academy, but both have a very good chance (more so Kilman), of saving us a lot of money in the future that can be invested in other positions of priority.

It's a gamble that will require producing a player who is worth the academy cost per year, times the number of years it takes to produce that player, to cover it's costs. Lottery, basically.

And why are we looking at Botman, Sanches and Guedes in the first place? Because our academy has not produced players of that quality. If it had, we wouldn't be needing to buy them in.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

It's a gamble that will require producing a player who is worth the academy cost per year, times the number of years it takes to produce that player, to cover it's costs. Lottery, basically.

And why are we looking at Botman, Sanches and Guedes in the first place? Because our academy has not produced players of that quality. If it had, we wouldn't be needing to buy them in.

Although I agree with what you say I do feel that the current crop of youngsters do look far more promising. What I am not confident about is the level of coaching we have throughout the club. I can only hope that Bruno and his crew can do better than the previous ones.

 

[Adrian_Monk]

He has a long way to go before he realises the potential some see in him. Too many times he runs into trouble, gives away a pass, has no end product, puts his team in trouble.
Needs a lot of good coaching to sharpen up on those things and matches to enhance his experience.

This isn't a Traore thread.

Anyway, back to Campbell, he's miles off. Talented - yes, but not first team ready any time soon

 

[giantwolf]

How much does it cost per year to run the academy? Brentford got rid of theres, saying it was costing £2M a year to run, with little chance of recouping that. I would imagine ours costs a lot more than that, too.

Sure I read somewhere that it costs between 2 and 5 million a year for a cat1 academy, obviously depending on the number of staff, salaries, investment in equipment etc. There can be a Mutual benefit though with some staff and facilities being shared

no doubt we’re still at the point where the main club still supports the academy but I genuinely think in 3-5 years time itll be different.

This summer Chelsea sold c£134m worth of players, the vast majority of those were from a background in their academy. Clearly they’re the goal and they’ve spent a lot getting there so are way ahead of us, but it shows it can be worthwhile

 

[WickedWolfie]

Andy play the game. When someone asks you an either or question you cnat say both. I say this to you in case you have to go on a quiz programme in the future.

What about neither then???

 

[WickedWolfie]

Yep, a bizarre decision if we run into injuries, but you have to assume there's a clause in his loan deal that he needs to start every game at Sheffield United or it will trigger a recall. A full season at that level would do him wonders, playing under a decent manager there as well in Jokanovic but they've made a poor start back to life in the Championship.

Even if we trigger a recall he can't play for us until the January window.

 

[Pagey]

As you say, cop out answer. As I said earlier who was the last academy player to make his name at Wolves? As no one answered I'd say Matt Murray and before that Joleon and Robbie Keane. All top players but hardly a distinguished record since then. Our academy is certainly not a revenue earning part of the Club. Whether that is important to Fosun who knows but I would expect all areas of the club under these owners to turn a profit.

So the academy costs between 2 and 5 million a year to run. This year alone we've apparently turned down 2.5m for Sanderson, Gibbs white is easily worth 8 minimum. Then add all the loan fees etc and the small permanent deals, then cost in the transfer of killman to the 1st team ( as I believe we were running the academy as separate) and that shows what can be achieved.

Few more years and progress will be made.

 

[Bob Wolf]

Watched him for the under 23’s against Forest last week. He obviously has boatloads of talent but seemed to frustrate his teammates. He pulled out of a few tackles and didn’t effect the game as much as his ability could have allowed him to. I won’t judge him on the one game I’ve seen but my first impression was that he’s probably always been the ‘best’ player in any age restricted team he’s played in and could do with a loan and lower level first team football.

Cundle on the other hand, massively impressed me. He had a great game, knitted the play together with intelligent movement and passing. I was pleased to see him on the bench against United, to me he looked the most likely of the midfielders/forwards in the under 23’s to make the first team in the near future.

Exactly the impression I got from today’s have vs West Ham. Thought Cundle looked excellent.

 

[Bob Wolf]

So the academy costs between 2 and 5 million a year to run. This year alone we've apparently turned down 2.5m for Sanderson, Gibbs white is easily worth 8 minimum. Then add all the loan fees etc and the small permanent deals, then cost in the transfer of killman to the 1st team ( as I believe we were running the academy as separate) and that shows what can be achieved.

Few more years and progress will be made.

Also I think we get a sell on for when goncalves gets bought for mega money.

 

[Skrilla]

It's a gamble that will require producing a player who is worth the academy cost per year, times the number of years it takes to produce that player, to cover it's costs. Lottery, basically.

And why are we looking at Botman, Sanches and Guedes in the first place? Because our academy has not produced players of that quality. If it had, we wouldn't be needing to buy them in.

What academies in the world regularly produce players capable of playing for a side that's pushing for top six? Barcelona, Ajax, Chelsea maybe?

I'm not really sure what your point is, do you want us to fold the academy because we aren't producing several first-teamers every year?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

What about neither then???

Yes that's what happens when you cant decide between the two choices. As they say you cant have your cake and eat it. Or in my case you cant have your cake because it raises your blood sugar level.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Yes that's what happens when you cant decide between the two choices. As they say you cant have your cake and eat it. Or in my case you cant have your cake because it raises your blood sugar level.

some people had their heads chopped off for telling people to eat cake!

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

some people had their heads chopped off for telling people to eat cake!

Aha so you also have had the latest leaflet from NHS pushed through your door.

 

[JonahWolf]

What academies in the world regularly produce players capable of playing for a side that's pushing for top six? Barcelona, Ajax, Chelsea maybe?

I'm not really sure what your point is, do you want us to fold the academy because we aren't producing several first-teamers every year?

This.

We could make around £20m from the academy in a heartbeat, Kilman and MGW. That’s 4 years running costs.
Those few clubs you mentioned (and Yanited I suppose) are the only ones that produce top level first team players from their academies.
Even then, those are all very different to each other. Ajax basically have the pick of young talent across all of the Netherlands, plus old colonial links, plus whatever they buy in…of which they produce loads capable of playing in the Dutch top flight…but then only a handful that go on for big fees to the top leagues.
Yanited similarly, since the freak occurrence of the class of 92, there’s been Rashford, Greenwood and McTominay.
Chelsea Hoover up half the young talent across the globe, but only really had Terry, and the latest crop to show for it in terms of those with the genuine quality to play in a champions league level first team.
They make a huge amount of money out of it though, plus the occasional first teamer.
That’s what we’re aiming at, and if you think of the price of premier league quality squad players, MGW and Kilman are quite a hefty return in terms of replacement purchase cost.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Aha so you also have had the latest leaflet from NHS pushed through your door.

lol

 

[arctic rime]

Exactly the impression I got from today’s have vs West Ham. Thought Cundle looked excellent.

Hes obviously now our 4th midfielder

 

[Bob Wolf]

Hes obviously now our 4th midfielder

Odd really - he looks much more of a winger from what I have seen. Cundle looked incredibly tidy and he would be my first choice if we needed. I would have also really liked ronan to have been given a look over as he seems an ideal fit for our new possession based game.

 

[Darvo]

I know I've raised this before but when was the last time an academy graduate was a regular starter for Wolves? Over the years we seem to produce tons of up and coming youngsters but none make it and, possibly like Campbell, go out on loan and then be sold to Walsall or Kidderminster. If Fosun do a cost/benefit analysis of the academy, even in their 5 year tenure, they will have had little or no financial return. I know you can argue it gives the Club cudos (sp?) and attraction but from a financial view-point it must lose millions.

A very interesting point.

Would it be more effective and financially beneficial to run a premier league football club without an academy?

IE - focus on recruiting proven players or those with a higher chance of being a success.