Burnley Verdict Thread

[Frank Lincoln]

We had an off day. It happens. We move on, still unbeaten.

 

[Contrarian]

This is what happens when you stick with jiminez, moutinho and jota etc persistently game after game when they need a rest.

What are Neves and Bennetts excuses, then?

 

[S G Wolves]

It was a bad performance...

We will be better on Thursday and Sunday..

It happens..

 

[Rufio]

He was very poor imo.

We’re all entitled to our own opinions brother. But for me both him and Rui were our best players.

 

[wolvesdb]

I thought Boly played quite well.

Neves was quite poor, but most of the time he was receiving the ball deep in defence (often from the goalkeeper.) And there was not much movement from the players off the ball.

 

[manchesterwolf17]

I think we all knew what sort of game we were in for today once that line up was announced. If ever there was a game not to drop Dendoncker and replace him with Gibbs White it was against Burnley, who for the record are a better side than some give them credit for (but who cares).

What worries me the most is how little Nuno seems to have learnt from last season. How on earth can you look at Erik Pieters today playing at left back and not let Adama loose on him. Doherty whilst clearly still off the pace, yes he's a safe pair of hands, but Adama scares the hell out of the opposition. As soon as he came on they had two or three men on him every single time.

Gibbs-White's inclusion was equally as baffling. I've refrained from being over critical with him but I really struggle to see what he brings to the team. What particular attribute does he have that warrants any inclusion in a Premier League squad? I'm lost.

I was amazed that we never addressed these sort of issues in the summer. I felt our business was complacent. We were crying out for an attacking midfielder or a similar ilk to Dendoncker and brought in no one in either position.

We have a lot of very good players and I certainly don't want to imply that I'm not positive for the season because I am. I just hope that we learn from today and realise that we do actually have the players to combat these sorts of opponents if we're actually prepared to utilize them. You could have even played Cutrone and Raul up top today with Jota in the number 10 role.

 

[reanswolf]

What are Neves and Bennetts excuses, then?

I genuinely don’t think they were as bad as you feel.
It was just a tough game, literally same team as last season.
Biggest disappointment for me is failing to improve the team over summer, though it wasn’t for lack of trying.

 

[Royal wolf]

I’m not sure I completely buy the whole everyone’s tired excuse going round but then again I’ve never experienced it so I wouldn’t know. Everyone was preempting this before the season began so the excuse was inevitable but what are people basing it on? Burnley last season?
I understand travelling long miles but they travel in luxury, does this not help? Are they not resting during the flight? Not to mention it’s only August and not January. They have near perfect diets supplied for them which helps recovery.
After completing Royal Marines training I fully understand what fatigue feels like, and that’s with no sleep and not what I’d consider a specialised diet.
Like I’ve said I haven’t experienced their lifestyle so I’m no expert nor is anyone on here I doubt but I’m just asking the question

 

[reanswolf]

I think we all knew what sort of game we were in for today once that line up was announced. If ever there was a game not to drop Dendoncker and replace him with Gibbs White it was against Burnley, who for the record are a better side than some give them credit for (but who cares).

What worries me the most is how little Nuno seems to have learnt from last season. How on earth can you look at Erik Pieters today playing at left back and not let Adama loose on him. Doherty whilst clearly still off the pace, yes he's a safe pair of hands, but Adama scares the hell out of the opposition. As soon as he came on they had two or three men on him every single time.

Gibbs-White's inclusion was equally as baffling. I've refrained from being over critical with him but I really struggle to see what he brings to the team. What particular attribute does he have that warrants any inclusion in a Premier League squad? I'm lost.

I was amazed that we never addressed these sort of issues in the summer. I felt our business was complacent. We were crying out for an attacking midfielder or a similar ilk to Dendoncker and brought in no one in either position.

We have a lot of very good players and I certainly don't want to imply that I'm not positive for the season because I am. I just hope that we learn from today and realise that we do actually have the players to combat these sorts of opponents if we're actually prepared to utilize them. You could have even played Cutrone and Raul up top today with Jota in the number 10 role.

Great post mate, exactly how I see it

 

[reanswolf]

I’m not sure I completely buy the whole everyone’s tired excuse going round but then again I’ve never experienced it so I wouldn’t know. Everyone was preempting this before the season began so the excuse was inevitable but what are people basing it on? Burnley last season?
I understand travelling long miles but they travel in luxury, does this not help? Are they not resting during the flight? Not to mention it’s only August and not January. They have near perfect diets supplied for them which helps recovery.
After completing Royal Marines training I fully understand what fatigue feels like, and that’s with no sleep and not what I’d consider a specialised diet.
Like I’ve said I haven’t experienced their lifestyle so I’m no expert nor is anyone on here I doubt but I’m just asking the question

Personally I think in football the difference between playing at 98% and 100% makes a lot of difference, and I do believe this Sunday-Thursday-Sunday is hard for professional footballers to play at their absolute peak.

 

[WolvTown]

If we pick up a point in games we play poorly in we'll be laughing.
We don't give up, it's OUR fortress Molineux.
We had a bad day, but grabbed a point, last season that may have been a loss.
Thought Boly played ok, everyone else, that started struggled imo.

 

[Pagey]

Not sure if its been mentioned, but travelling friday leaves 1 day to prepare, surely that in itself can hinder

 

[sillytuna]

Personally I think in football the difference between playing at 98% and 100% makes a lot of difference, and I do believe this Sunday-Thursday-Sunday is hard for professional footballers to play at their absolute peak.

Agreed. The evidence doesn't lie. Problems happen to almost every team who get into our position.

Of course players can play twice a week but they can't do it at 100%, especially in the modern game. That sharpness can make all the difference. Wolves are no different to every other team I'm afraid.

 

[Deleted member 4152]

I genuinely don’t think they were as bad as you feel.
It was just a tough game, literally same team as last season.
Biggest disappointment for me is failing to improve the team over summer, though it wasn’t for lack of trying.

Reans, I have stuck up for Bennett more than most on here I think. And I genuinely adore Neves. But they were both awful today

 

[The Professional]

I think we all knew what sort of game we were in for today once that line up was announced. If ever there was a game not to drop Dendoncker and replace him with Gibbs White it was against Burnley, who for the record are a better side than some give them credit for (but who cares).

What worries me the most is how little Nuno seems to have learnt from last season. How on earth can you look at Erik Pieters today playing at left back and not let Adama loose on him. Doherty whilst clearly still off the pace, yes he's a safe pair of hands, but Adama scares the hell out of the opposition. As soon as he came on they had two or three men on him every single time.

Gibbs-White's inclusion was equally as baffling. I've refrained from being over critical with him but I really struggle to see what he brings to the team. What particular attribute does he have that warrants any inclusion in a Premier League squad? I'm lost.

I was amazed that we never addressed these sort of issues in the summer. I felt our business was complacent. We were crying out for an attacking midfielder or a similar ilk to Dendoncker and brought in no one in either position.

We have a lot of very good players and I certainly don't want to imply that I'm not positive for the season because I am. I just hope that we learn from today and realise that we do actually have the players to combat these sorts of opponents if we're actually prepared to utilize them. You could have even played Cutrone and Raul up top today with Jota in the number 10 role.

Very good post. Agree with everything you say.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Agree with the comments about the referee, looked like he couldn’t care less today. Maybe he felt Wolves v Burnley was beneath him.

Realised after the game he was the god awful reff from the Ajax CL game last week.

 

[YamYamWolf]

MGW was poor. Neves was shocking. Bennett worse. Doherty worse than that. Looked tired and managed to steal a point. The choice not to sign a playmaking midfielder is starting to look a stupid one. Hopefully we dont **** up thursday.

Troare needs to start when fit......didnt think I'd say that 12 months ago.

 

[WonderWolf]

Seriously worryingly poor.

Not on it at all. Admittedly we were up against physically superior opponents but the ease with which they dealt with us was startling. We looked real jaded, even mentally so. Nothing was working or coming off adequately in the middle and up front, it was all like a struggling boxer just trying to hang in there in hope.

Our game was weak and their plan was excellent, it allowed Burnley to easily counteract anything we tried to work with our usual counter-playing plan......we would have two or three attackers on a break but in the blink of an eye there would be six defenders blunting it all....not that it mattered much as our totally out of sorts play between J&J helped them deal with it easily time and again anyway.

This has shown up our limitations with what we are having to go with to cope with the intensity of the workload and the quality and resources required. The equation was fully understood but the action after this game with our answers has it completely wrong. A one off? Really not confident it could be, it was that lame.

MOTM: Boly - 8...had his slightly dodgy moments but still stood strong and able for the most.

 

[Michellis]

Excellent summary and I agree with pretty much all of it. The midfield selection was far too light weight against the Burnley muscle. The other general tactical point is that to score goals you need to go forwards and drive at the defence or get round the sides. Not until the last twenty when Neto and Traore came on did we do that.before that it was endless pointless passing in front of the Burnley defence, as if attacking them wasn't allowed and shooting was frowned on. Two attackers in their box to about seven defender's. You've got to commit players forward to score goals. Boy was it boring/ frustrating. The only excuse is that they were knackered. But Nuno doesn't really believe in rotating either.Doc simply doesn't look fit to me and Bennett just ain't good enough IMO. Vallejo needs to be starting. Again, Traore changed the dynamics. Should have been on after 45 minutes.

If I could be bothered to add a verdict it would be this. Very tedious afternoon.

 

[Mark Gaynot]

Personally I think in football the difference between playing at 98% and 100% makes a lot of difference, and I do believe this Sunday-Thursday-Sunday is hard for professional footballers to play at their absolute peak.

Aye to both of these. It seems to be a self fulfilling prophecy- no matter in what sport the ‘head’ is usually as, if not more important than, the body.

 

[clivewolves]

Disappointing performance. Passing was off and the back three couldn't handle the two up top for Burnley. On the plus side, we fought to the end and got a point. I think we started to play a bit better when we went to 3-4-3. I think we should use that more often than we do. I know we struggled in games last season, and therefore switched to a 3-5-2, but for many games at the start of last season, it served us well. For me, Neves has more passing options when playing 3-4-3.

Credit to Burnley as well. They played to their strengths. Wood and Barnes bullied our defenders. Burnley wasted time, but I expect that from anyside when winning. I'd expect us to do the same thing. It's up to the ref to stop it. In the end, it cost them.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Disappointing performance. Passing was off and the back three couldn't handle the two up top for Burnley. On the plus side, we fought to the end and got a point. I think we started to play a bit better when we went to 3-4-3. I think we should use that more often than we do. I know we struggled in games last season, and therefore switched to a 3-5-2, but for many games at the start of last season, it served us well. For me, Neves has more passing options when playing 3-4-3.

Credit to Burnley as well. They played to their strengths. Wood and Barnes bullied our defenders. Burnley wasted time, but I expect that from anyside when winning. I'd expect us to do the same thing. It's up to the ref to stop it. In the end, it cost them.

The 3-4-3 Brings Neves further forward too, which also makes him more effective.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

Today was a difficult watch. The team selection was confusing to a certain degree and the substitutions came too late. Nuno is obviously trying to get Doherty into form but it just isn't working right now - in reality, he needs to play in a couple of training ground friendlies to get himself going. Adama has pushed ahead of him in my opinion. Others were also not at the races; the worst culprits being players who didn't play on Thursday and who couldn't use fatigue as an excuse. On the whole, it was the same old story against a far less talented team. We moved the ball at a snail's pace; I'm not sure how we planned to get in behind them with such tepid build-up play. As soon as we had an injection of pace and creativity, we started to make some inroads. At any rate:

Patricio (7)

Bennett (3) - Coady (7) - Boly (7.5)

Doherty (2) / Adama (6.5) - Neves (4) - Moutinho (5) / Neto (6) - Jonny (4)

MGW (4) / Dendoncker (5)

Jota (5) - Jimenez (7)​

Starting XI:

Patricio: Produced a number of good saves to keep us alive in the first half. He didn't have much to do in the second, though.

Bennett: I'm not sure what was wrong with him but he didn't have an excuse for his performance given that, not only did he know exactly what the opposition would bring to the table but he'd also had a full week's rest. Vallejo will be taking his place sooner rather than later if he keeps this up.
Coady: Ended up doing the work of two players. Carried Bennett today.
Boly: Our best defender overall but still iffy positionally from time to time.

Doherty: Miles off the pace. Shouldn't be starting at the moment. If Nuno wants to get game time under Matt's belt, he should organise a training ground friendly or two.
Neves: Poor today. Also had no excuse given the week's rest. Every pass seemed to go to the nearest blue player. Looked to stand off Barnes for the goal.
Moutinho: Could we have rested him today? Neto is crying out for a start.
MGW: Did try to drive the play forward at times, but every touch seemed heavy. I can see the logic in Nuno's decision to start him, but he didn't really help us to move the ball through the flat banks of four as he should've. He needs to work on his close control since this is what's letting him down at the moment.
Jonny: Offered little going forward. Seemed hesitant to try to get beyond his defender. Often seen standing still when he should at least try something.

Jota: One or two driving runs, but not making the right decision. Needs a league goal.
Jimenez: Bailed us out of the brown stuff.

Subs from:

Dendoncker: Came on, added much-needed height. I'm not sure why he didn't start today.
Neto: Looked frustrated when his teammates were struggling to get forward with him. Added more purpose to our movement. Definitely pushing for a start.
Adama: Needed to come on at half-time. Should've started in truth. Injected a certain drive into our attacking play that had been missing.

Others:

Nuno: Got it spectacularly wrong today. He seemed to have one eye on Thursday. The three substitutes made a difference though. The same old story against inferior opposition.
Craig Pawson: Dreadful. Lacked authority. Was perfectly happy to let Burnley waste time right from the off.
Burnley: Depressing long hoofball. Away fans who sit down. Imagine having to sit through that sort of crap every week.

 

[JonahWolf]

Personally I think in football the difference between playing at 98% and 100% makes a lot of difference, and I do believe this Sunday-Thursday-Sunday is hard for professional footballers to play at their absolute peak.

That as well. A well-drilled, maximum effort team of unspectacular players at 100% were just too much for a well drilled, very high effort team of better players at something not far under 100%.

 

[Wolf86]

Gibbs-White. Yes he’s a local lad but could of done with a half season loan move to a championship club

 

[WalsallWolf]

That was poor. I LOVE Nuno but he needs to set up so we ask more questions of the opposition in games such as this. Start with Traore and Vinagre. Start with a front three from the outset. Stretch them more. We started too conservative and they was rubbing there hands together at going 1 up, it was always going to play into there hands and they made the most of it.

Having said that, we still got a point out of it so that's our get out of jail free card. I hope and trust Nuno will learn from that.

 

[NewarkWolf]

Bolt played ok. Not sure why he had some low ratings

Gibbs-White is a weak link for us

I would have got Traore and neto and Dendoncker on at half time.

Lucky - felt like a win at the end

Agree about gibbs white, we want him to be good so play him hoping to be when really he just isn't but gets given chance after chance in the hope he'll find that extra but that he's lacking

 

[Contrarian]

Some random thoughts - Burnley don't play through midfield. They send long balls over the top to their strikers up front, who are excellent at winning them. We hardly needed 3 in midfield to cope with this. Last season, we dominated them at home while we were still playing 3-4-3. That formation came unstuck against other teams (Watford,Huddersfield, Cardiff etc), but against Burnley was probably the best we played in the Premier while using 3-4-3.Today we needed more players getting forward and maintaining enough presence to retain the ball, instead of always attempting flashy passes and flicks that often gave the ball to Burnley who could then launch it up to the big men up front.

Today, on around 70 minutes, we had attacks where someone got a cross in yet still we had only 1 or 2 arriving in the penalty area. Whereas Burnley had 4 in our penalty area when they attacked in the first half, at least. What we saw was the same old problem of over-caution. One day I'd like us just to go at a team from the kick off, like last season at home against Cardiff, Leicester and err... well, maybe Burnley and that was about it.

 

[Beeches wolf]

On a brighter note, what little iv seen of Neto, I think we have acquired an excellent player . Hope he goes on to be a first team regular.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

Gibbs-White. Yes he’s a local lad but could of done with a half season loan move to a championship club

We could still ship him off to La Liga or the Bundesliga and see where we are in January. It would do him the power of good.

 

[wallace]

Palace won at man u, spurs lost at their new stadium to Newcastle u, we draw to burnley, who had the best result.
Time to get a perspective on results rather than expecting us to dominate and win every game we play.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

On a brighter note, what little iv seen of Neto, I think we have acquired an excellent player . Hope he goes on to be a first team regular.

How well Neto is doing should be showing how overrated MGW is by our fans. Neto is a younger player with far less first team experience, but he has far, far more impact on a game than MGW has.

 

[Deleted member 4436]

Negatives:
If Gibbs-White wasn’t “one of our own” then he’d be nowhere near this squad. So poor.

Doherty: Blame a lack of pre-season all you want, but he looked shot after 5 minutes.

Bennett: The worst time to have his worst performance in a Wolves shirt. Vallejo has to come in.

Neves: poor.

Positives:

Very few. We’re still unbeaten and Traore, yet again, turned the game for us. If he’d played as poorly as Doc today then the knives would have been out.

Onto Torino..

 

[Irish_Wolf]

Bolt played ok. Not sure why he had some low ratings

Gibbs-White is a weak link for us

I would have got Traore and neto and Dendoncker on at half time.

Lucky - felt like a win at the end

You sayin Bolt played well? Personally thought he was anonymous.

 

[Pagey]

One player who surprised me today was Boly, im not singling him out by any means, and there were players much more below their usual levels.

But Boly was caught out time and time again by a long ball down the wing and runners in behind him.

 

[VancouverWolf]

I genuinely don’t think they were as bad as you feel.
It was just a tough game, literally same team as last season.
Biggest disappointment for me is failing to improve the team over summer, though it wasn’t for lack of trying.

Your last line.....it may not have been Nuno’s fault.

 

[themanwhobuiltthemoon]

Two points this week when in reality we probably should have had none.

Not often I disagree with Nuno's decisions but I thought it was evident today that certain players needed a rest - but hindsight is beautiful and we don't see what goes on behind the scenes.

I thought MGW showed some endeavour on the ball - but off it he's got a lot of work to do. Too many times when we were out of possession he coasted around.

Positives? 1) We're still unbeaten. 2) In bringing on the likes of Adama and Neto we look like we've got something that resembles a Plan B.

Adama brought a different dimension again, although I'd like to see him go down the outside more and fire it across the six-yard box into that "corridor of uncertainty" rather than cutting in on his left.

Quick word on Burnley. A lovely finish from Barnes aside, thought they were as anti-football as I've seen in a while. Time-wasting from the 15-minute mark and a few players leaving a foot in on the sly. Understand it from a newly-promoted team who need to scrap for every point but they've been established in this league for a few seasons now.

 

[Scallywolf]

For so much 90 minutes I just could not believe what I was watching. So many players were not at it and in the end I felt fortunate that we managed to get a point. The players looked jaded and tired. Where was the creativity to break Burnley down?

Rui - Kept us in it with the save from Wood and looked good throughout. No chance with goal.
Doc - Seemed out of it for whole 90 minutes. Hardly got forward. Season not started well.
Jonny - Did ok but nothing special today.
Conor - Made hard work looking after Wood and Barnes.
Bennett - Awful today. Just awful.
Willy - Did ok but not at his best.
MGW - Frustrating and should now be bringing a lot more to the table.
Ruben - Oh dear Ruben. What happened today? Passing was all over the place.
Mouts - Flickered in and out of the game.
Diogo - As against Man U nothing seemed to come off for him.
Raul - Worked hard as usual but understanding with Diogo was not there.
Donk - Didn’t notice much of him when he came on.
Adama - Should have come on at half time.
Pedro - He’s gonna be good. Only 19 and looks better than MGW.

Burnley were well organised and dealt easily with everything we threw at them which was not a lot. Team performance mark 5.5 out of 10. This was up there with the awful home performance against Huddersfield last season. Have we not learned?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Ah, the familiar evening read on MolMix . A strangely rare beast the past few seasons, but draw at home to Burnley, and hey presto, it’s gloom. We’re unbeaten in how many games? We’re close to qualifying for the group stages of a European cup for the first time in how many years? We’re playing games every few days, sometimes thousands of miles away... and some have the cheek to complain about Utd supporters and their sense of entitlement? Stuff me.

First half, we were not at the races. We were lucky to go in only 1-0 down, and have Rui and the crossbar to thank, as our defence and midfield seemed unable to handle an aggressive and sharp Burnley attack. The less said about our attack the better. It wasn’t exactly backs to the wall, but it was one way traffic.

Second half, we started playing, and Burnley barely troubled our defence. 10 mins in, Dyche was checking his watch, worried. Still, we didn’t look like breaking through until we started bringing on our subs, but even then, it looked like one of those days when every 50/50 chance would not break for us. Then, in the final minutes, Bennett was drafted in for a couple of long ball throw ins. The first resulted in Jimenez hitting the post. The second resulted in the penalty, from which Jimenez scored.

The draw was just about fair on the balance of 90 mins.

A game to remember? No, not at all. A game to panic about? No, not at all. Get past Thursday, and we can start to settle into a more normal cycle of games. At this moment, Nuno will be aiming to keep things ticking along in the PL, while ensuring we get into the group stages of the EL. Job nearly done.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

3 games in! Just beaten a top Italian team and still unbeaten have a little faith

Don’t waste your breath