Bielsa - shortlist for FIFA coach of the year

Jonzy54 said:
It will always be subjective but if you look at the ‘Great ‘ Managers since the year 2000 alone I wonder how many would put him in their top 10 or top 20 for that matter ?
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Quite a lot outside of England I'd imagine.
 
Pwolf said:
What's with the nuno is great comment continually? A great for wolves probably yes. But i doubt any wolves fan thinks he's a great to level that saf, Jose, pep are and you are trying to make bielsa is
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I'm not making him out to be at that level. Very touchy considering I'm praising Nuno, who I think is a very good manager.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I do fear that many of you don't actually want to listen, but I'll briefly explain what the fuss is about.

Firstly, the trophies. Bielsa doesn't manage the best teams in the league, so this is a strange thing to level at him. He has won in South America, but every European club are nowhere near the elite. Maybe the top, top players don't respond to his demanding methods, maybe he just wants to be different. Either way, he manages clubs that aren't good enough to win trophies.

So, yes, he loses a few finals. Athletic Bilbao lost a Copa Del Rey to Pep's Barcelona, that's nothing to be ridiculed for. They lost a Europa League final to Atletico Madrid, after beating Fergie's United among others, to get to that stage.

This is overachieving. They shouldn't have been in with a sniff of being there. It would be like someone criticising Nuno if Wolves had got to the FA Cup final and lost to City. What would we say to someone who said Nuno was a bottler? I'd say, on what planet should we be beating Man City to a trophy.

Also, Nuno has won nothing. And, he has been with Porto. What does that make him according to your logic?

Bielsa transformed and overachieved with Chile, and he did very well with Marseille. For balance, he was very bad with Lille.

Then, Leeds. He inherited a pretty average Championship side. Again, reaching the play-offs was overachieving when he took over, even if they threw it away at the end. They then win the league.

The bigger point with Bielsa is the way they play.

Surely, you all acknowledge it's a lot easier to be successful by defending? That's NOT to say it's easy. It's just easier to organise a team to sit 10 behind the ball and break at pace. He takes it to the opposition and attacks.

This Leeds team is in the bottom three or four if you looked at them player for player. Who is good? Many ridiculed Bamford. Ayling and Dallas have been lower league players their whole life. Meslier is an unproven kid. Klich was bombed out by previous Championship managers. Yes, they've spent a few quid on some players, but this is a Leeds side player for player that should probably just about stay up.

Anyway, with all that, he creates a team that is great to watch with the attacking football they play. There's no sitting back, defending like mad. It's all-out, exciting football trying to win.

And, it's against the norm. Very few managers in the world, with clearly inferior resources, are willing to take the game to the opposition. It's bold and brave, which is why it's unique.

Obviously, today was a shambles, and he disrespected the cup despite bigging it up before. I found it very funny and was glad Leeds lost. I'd also love it if they went down, but that doesn't mean I'll be blinkered to Bielsa who has done a fine job at Leeds with his results and style.

Oh, and I don't think he should've been shortlisted for Coach of the Year either, but his reputation is deserved.
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Great post. Thx
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I do fear that many of you don't actually want to listen, but I'll briefly explain what the fuss is about.

Firstly, the trophies. Bielsa doesn't manage the best teams in the league, so this is a strange thing to level at him. He has won in South America, but every European club are nowhere near the elite. Maybe the top, top players don't respond to his demanding methods, maybe he just wants to be different. Either way, he manages clubs that aren't good enough to win trophies.

So, yes, he loses a few finals. Athletic Bilbao lost a Copa Del Rey to Pep's Barcelona, that's nothing to be ridiculed for. They lost a Europa League final to Atletico Madrid, after beating Fergie's United among others, to get to that stage.

This is overachieving. They shouldn't have been in with a sniff of being there. It would be like someone criticising Nuno if Wolves had got to the FA Cup final and lost to City. What would we say to someone who said Nuno was a bottler? I'd say, on what planet should we be beating Man City to a trophy.

Also, Nuno has won nothing. And, he has been with Porto. What does that make him according to your logic?

Bielsa transformed and overachieved with Chile, and he did very well with Marseille. For balance, he was very bad with Lille.

Then, Leeds. He inherited a pretty average Championship side. Again, reaching the play-offs was overachieving when he took over, even if they threw it away at the end. They then win the league.

The bigger point with Bielsa is the way they play.

Surely, you all acknowledge it's a lot easier to be successful by defending? That's NOT to say it's easy. It's just easier to organise a team to sit 10 behind the ball and break at pace. He takes it to the opposition and attacks.

This Leeds team is in the bottom three or four if you looked at them player for player. Who is good? Many ridiculed Bamford. Ayling and Dallas have been lower league players their whole life. Meslier is an unproven kid. Klich was bombed out by previous Championship managers. Yes, they've spent a few quid on some players, but this is a Leeds side player for player that should probably just about stay up.

Anyway, with all that, he creates a team that is great to watch with the attacking football they play. There's no sitting back, defending like mad. It's all-out, exciting football trying to win.

And, it's against the norm. Very few managers in the world, with clearly inferior resources, are willing to take the game to the opposition. It's bold and brave, which is why it's unique.

Obviously, today was a shambles, and he disrespected the cup despite bigging it up before. I found it very funny and was glad Leeds lost. I'd also love it if they went down, but that doesn't mean I'll be blinkered to Bielsa who has done a fine job at Leeds with his results and style.

Oh, and I don't think he should've been shortlisted for Coach of the Year either, but his reputation is deserved.
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Strange. That post, except the perfunctory last para, reads more like it's written by a fan of that team than just about anything that l've seen you post about Wolves. I must be misinterpreting that, l'm sure.
 
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WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Because I don't need to defend him on a thread about Bielsa ffs
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Come on don't act clever with me. You and I both know you were trying to goad people into a nuno argument. Well let's forget that.

Bielsa style is a why he's great? So what would you rather your club have. Jose track record with trophies/style or bielsa trophies/style??
 
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Jonzy54 said:
Maybe so but it hardly makes him ‘Great’.
Keegan had a similar distinctive all action style but once again he was not a ‘Great’ either
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In your opinion. In the opinion of others, everything about him does. It's not as simplistic as an all-action style, which you know.
 
Pwolf said:
Come on wewe don't act clever with me. You and I both know you were trying to goad people into a nuno argument. Well let's forget that.

Bielsa style is a why he's great? So what would you rather your club have. Jose track record with trophies/style or bielsa trophies/style??
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I'd always look to appoint a manager like Bielsa. It's what I enjoy about football. The pressing, intensity, attacking etc.

Obviously, you want to win trophies. But, there's no definitive way to play to win trophies.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I'd always look to appoint a manager like Bielsa. It's what I enjoy about football. The pressing, intensity, attacking etc.

Obviously, you want to win trophies. But, there's no definitive way to play to win trophies.
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I'm confused by your answer. Simple Jose or bielsa is required.

You are chairman of wolves or machine sazi for the next 20 years. What do you want. The amount of trophies Jose has won with his style or bielsa has with his.

Don't need a response longer than my Willy. Just a simple Jose, bielsa.
 
Pwolf said:
I'm confused by your answer. Simple Jose or bielsa is required.

You are chairman of wolves or machine sazi for the next 20 years. What do you want. The amount of trophies Jose has won with his style or bielsa has with his.

Don't need a response longer than my Willy. Just a simple Jose, bielsa.
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Bielsa.

It just shows you're not taking in the points that are made, which is no surprise.

Pep Guardiola has 'Bielsa's style', it hasn't done him any harm, has it? As I said, Bielsa hasn't won trophies because he's not managed a team that should win trophies. Unlike Jose.

That's not me saying Bielsa is better than Mourinho. Just I would rather my club played the football that Bielsa produces, and if it was Wolves, where there isn't a demand to win trophy after trophy, it would be an easy choice.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Bielsa.

It just shows you're not taking in the points that are made, which is no surprise.

Pep Guardiola has 'Bielsa's style', it hasn't done him any harm, has it? As I said, Bielsa hasn't won trophies because he's not managed a team that should win trophies. Unlike, Jose.

That's not me saying Bielsa is better than Mourinho. Just I would rather my club played the football that Bielsa produces, and if it was Wolves, where there isn't a demand to win trophy after trophy, it would be an easy choice.
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So you are happy for wolves to win next to **** all for the next 20 years providing we play like Leeds? Fair play to you
 
Pwolf said:
So you are happy for wolves to win next to **** all for the next 20 years providing we play like Leeds? Fair play to you
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Nah, I'm happy with how we're doing.

And, again, missing the point. No point continuing, you clearly are a WUM as you can't keep making the same daft comments.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
I do fear that many of you don't actually want to listen, but I'll briefly explain what the fuss is about.

Firstly, the trophies. Bielsa doesn't manage the best teams in the league, so this is a strange thing to level at him. He has won in South America, but every European club are nowhere near the elite. Maybe the top, top players don't respond to his demanding methods, maybe he just wants to be different. Either way, he manages clubs that aren't good enough to win trophies.

So, yes, he loses a few finals. Athletic Bilbao lost a Copa Del Rey to Pep's Barcelona, that's nothing to be ridiculed for. They lost a Europa League final to Atletico Madrid, after beating Fergie's United among others, to get to that stage.

This is overachieving. They shouldn't have been in with a sniff of being there. It would be like someone criticising Nuno if Wolves had got to the FA Cup final and lost to City. What would we say to someone who said Nuno was a bottler? I'd say, on what planet should we be beating Man City to a trophy.

Also, Nuno has won nothing. And, he has been with Porto. What does that make him according to your logic?

Bielsa transformed and overachieved with Chile, and he did very well with Marseille. For balance, he was very bad with Lille.

Then, Leeds. He inherited a pretty average Championship side. Again, reaching the play-offs was overachieving when he took over, even if they threw it away at the end. They then win the league.

The bigger point with Bielsa is the way they play.

Surely, you all acknowledge it's a lot easier to be successful by defending? That's NOT to say it's easy. It's just easier to organise a team to sit 10 behind the ball and break at pace. He takes it to the opposition and attacks.

This Leeds team is in the bottom three or four if you looked at them player for player. Who is good? Many ridiculed Bamford. Ayling and Dallas have been lower league players their whole life. Meslier is an unproven kid. Klich was bombed out by previous Championship managers. Yes, they've spent a few quid on some players, but this is a Leeds side player for player that should probably just about stay up.

Anyway, with all that, he creates a team that is great to watch with the attacking football they play. There's no sitting back, defending like mad. It's all-out, exciting football trying to win.

And, it's against the norm. Very few managers in the world, with clearly inferior resources, are willing to take the game to the opposition. It's bold and brave, which is why it's unique.

Obviously, today was a shambles, and he disrespected the cup despite bigging it up before. I found it very funny and was glad Leeds lost. I'd also love it if they went down, but that doesn't mean I'll be blinkered to Bielsa who has done a fine job at Leeds with his results and style.

Oh, and I don't think he should've been shortlisted for Coach of the Year either, but his reputation is deserved.
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So lets break this down a bit , you become great from winning nothing , if thats correct we've had some unbelievable managers over the yrs aye we
 
bully9 said:
So lets break this down a bit , you become great from winning nothing , if thats correct we've had some unbelievable managers over the yrs aye we
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He will call you a wum now because just like everyone else on the thread you disagree with him. Shame as me and him were mates until he started bullying me
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Nah, I'm happy with how we're doing.

And, again, missing the point. No point continuing, you clearly are a WUM as you can't keep making the same daft comments.
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Genuinely interested, as you have stated the high points of his career, what happened with Lazio and Lille?
 
Pagey said:
Genuinely interested, as you have stated the high points of his career, what happened with Lazio and Lille?
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He left Lazio after a day, so nothing.

He was very bad at Lille, which I said initially. As for what happened, I don't know. I'm not saying he's the best manager ever, it didn't work out.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
He left Lazio after a day, so nothing.

He was very bad at Lille, which I said initially.
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Seems strange to spit your dummy out and walk out on a club after a day. In fact does he stay anywhere longterm, if he's as good as you say, surely clubs would fight to keep him?
 
Pagey said:
Seems strange to spit your dummy out and walk out on a club after a day. In fact does he stay anywhere longterm, if he's as good as you say, surely clubs would fight to keep him?
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So you didn't know he left after a day or two?

This is part of the problem. You're commenting on a manager who you probably hadn't heard of until he joined Leeds. It's also why his work is downplayed. Understandably, many of you don't care about Chile, Athletic Bilbao, Marseille, Leeds etc. because they aren't the real elite. So you're arguing against me but I suspect you don't know about his career. Which is fine, I'm not saying you should.

As for why he leaves, he's eccentric. You can read up on him if you really want, there are many stories about why the way he acts. He left Lazio because he wasn't backed with players he was promised. Clubs do fight to keep him, clubs do approach him, but he picks his clubs, which is why he joined Leeds (fan base, history etc.)

Plenty of stuff out there on his character if you want to read them.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
So you didn't know he left after a day or two?

This is part of the problem. You're commenting on a manager who you probably hadn't heard of until he joined Leeds. It's also why his work is downplayed. Understandably, many of you don't care about Chile, Athletic Bilbao, Marseille, Leeds etc. because they aren't the real elite. So you're arguing against me but I suspect you don't know about his career. Which is fine, I'm not saying you should.

As for why he leaves, he's eccentric. You can read up on him if you really want, there are many stories about why the way he acts. He left Lazio because he wasn't backed with players he was promised. Clubs do fight to keep him, clubs do approach him, but he picks his clubs, which is why he joined Leeds (fan base, history etc.)

Plenty of stuff out there on his character if you want to read them.
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Being serious. If he's so good why has Barca, real, Bayern etc not got him? (Please try to respond respectfully)
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
So you didn't know he left after a day or two?

This is part of the problem. You're commenting on a manager who you probably hadn't heard of until he joined Leeds. It's also why his work is downplayed. Understandably, many of you don't care about Chile, Athletic Bilbao, Marseille, Leeds etc. because they aren't the real elite. So you're arguing against me but I suspect you don't know about his career. Which is fine, I'm not saying you should.

As for why he leaves, he's eccentric. You can read up on him if you really want, there are many stories about why the way he acts. He left Lazio because he wasn't backed with players he was promised. Clubs do fight to keep him, clubs do approach him, but he picks his clubs, which is why he joined Leeds (fan base, history etc.)

Plenty of stuff out there on his character if you want to read them.
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Tbh your right I didn't know a great deal about him before Leeds, I remembered him from his stint with Argentina and that was it.

But that sort of backs up our arguement - no?
 
The interesting thing about Bielsa's time in charge of Chile is that despite him being credited with over achieving with them because he got a world Cup last 16 or whatever it was is that the coach before him and the 2 coaches after all won trophies with the same Chile side. The 2 after him in fact both won the Copa America.

His teams play an exciting style and he is very detailed in his preparation but imo if he didn't sit on a bucket and was called Mark Bilston he'd have been nowhere near the fifa list of coaches of the year. There are loads of coaches who play attacking football like him and get better results. You just have to look at Germany and see the football teams like Bayern, Dortmund and those traditional heavy hitters Leipzig to see that.

That said he is doing a very good job with Leeds and I have a lot of respect for him as a coach.

WeAreTheWolvesII is right about Pep being a Bielsa advocate though, he does claim he is the best coach in the world for some reason.
 
Pagey said:
Tbh your right I didn't know a great deal about him before Leeds, I remembered him from his stint with Argentina and that was it.

But that sort of backs up our arguement - no?
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Yes, to a degree.

But, on your logic, you would only know great managers because of what they've done in England, or in European competition. I think other factors come into play, such as what you're working with, the work you've done etc.

Burford T Justice said:
The interesting thing about Bielsa's time in charge of Chile is that despite him being credited with over achieving with them because he got a world Cup last 16 or whatever it was is that the coach before him and the 2 coaches after all won trophies with the same Chile side. The 2 after him in fact both won the Copa America.

His teams play an exciting style and he is very detailed in his preparation but imo if he didn't sit on a bucket and was called Mark Bilston he'd have been nowhere near the fifa list of coaches of the year. There are loads of coaches who play attacking football like him and get better results. You just have to look at Germany and see the football teams like Bayern, Dortmund and those traditional heavy hitters Leipzig to see that.

That said he is doing a very good job with Leeds and I have a lot of respect for him as a coach.

WeAreTheWolvesII is right about Pep being a Bielsa advocate though, he does claim he is the best coach in the world for some reason.
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What did Chile win before Bielsa took over?
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Yes, to a degree.

But, on your logic, you would only know great managers because of what they've done in England, or in European competition. I think other factors come into play, such as what you're working with, the work you've done etc.



What did Chile win before Bielsa took over?
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What about my reply? :(
 
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Pwolf said:
What about my reply wewe? :(
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Read up on him, if you are really bothered.

In short, his character would clash with key figures and probably the players. And, these big clubs don't really go for the best managers do they? United have a former player, Madrid have one, Bayern have an assistant.
 
WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Read up on him, if you are really bothered.

In short, his character would clash with key figures and probably the players. And, these big clubs don't really go for the best managers do they? United have a former player, Madrid have one, Bayern have an assistant.
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I can't read. Remember?
 
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WeAreTheWolvesII said:
Yes, to a degree.

But, on your logic, you would only know great managers because of what they've done in England, or in European competition. I think other factors come into play, such as what you're working with, the work you've done etc.



What did Chile win before Bielsa took over?
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Nothing major at all just minor regional cups, the coach before won the Pacific Cup which I've no doubt Bielsa would have and in fairness to him he has about the 4th or 5th highest win rate in their history. They did finish 3rd in the first World Cup though I think which is their highest achievement. I do think Jorge Sampoali had the better achievement as Chile coach though.

As I said, I rate and respect him as a coach highly, I just think its gone overboard this year for some reason.

What he achieved at Bilbao was truly remarkable and I think he is considered something of a legend there isn't he?
 
Jonzy54 said:
Football is always about opinions but as I said who would put Bielsa in their top 10 or even 20 since the year 2000?
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I would probably have to check to general mix feeling, but I may Vote for him. Are they still light years ahead of us? Or is that villa? I lose track.

Anyhow;

they just about scraped a very very poor championship - massive tick

they are doing great in the prem, in the running about wildly stats - massive tick

lots of hair and man buns - hugest tick

having considered all factors, I’d say he’s a Shoe in
 
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