BBC and the Far Right

[Pengwern]

The German Election results actually show the combined far left (die Grunen & die Linke) got 17% of the vote compared to the far right AfD's 13%, but Aunty's news is all about the rise of the Far Right in Germany. Scroll back to the last but one EU EU election, unspoilt by national election regulations on balanced reporting, when election night BBC news headlined with the number of Rumanian migrants entering the country. The polling stations were open for a further 4 hours. Cue: UKIP made unprecedented gains. In the two years that followed Aunty invited Nigel Farage into Question Time more times than ANY OTHER POST-WAR POLITICAL FIGURE. The conventional mainstream view is that the BBC is liberal, but why does it's actual political choices give the impression that key BBC decision makers are beguiled by right wing movements?

 

[Pengwern]

Just been corrected by Mrs P - tonight's coverage I saw was on Channel 4 news. Did anyone see BBC news?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Maybe they thought Farage was undermining the Conservative Party and it might have helped the Left back in? Maybe they're just attracted to drama, and **** stirring is drama?

I think Brexit has shocked the Establishment like BBC, who assumed the population were being led & could be, instead they've only encouraged a political revolt in part of the population who had their own ideas, people who Farage was genuinely representing rather than leading.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Not many points to agree with Peng even though I generally sympathise with your views.

No expert on German politics to say the least, but (assuming the exit poll) the Left and Green vote has fallen while the AFD has nearly trebled its support. I'm not at all sure the Greens would like to be called far left (although as in this country many of their motivations overlap, many are very different).

Farage represented a large slice of the electorate and was pretty much the only figure his party dared put forward to represent them so it's not really surprising he got a lot of invites.

 

[Pengwern]

According to Der Spiegel and ZDF at 7 pm CDU/CSU are down 8.3%, SPD down 4.9%, die Linke up 0.3%, die Grunen up 0.9%, AfD up 5.3%, Liberals up 8.5%. The big change is therefore the rush of voters to the Liberal centre party, perhaps in fear of the polarisation of German politics as support for the 'business as usual' parties crumbled. Die Linke and die Grunen are on 18.2 combined, AfD on 10.1 and Liberals on 13.2. The two coalition partners - CDU/CSU and SPD- have lost 14.2% combined. Mainstream TV news coverage is trivial and misleading.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

If my country got flooded with over 1,000,000 undocumented migrants thanks to a ridiculous open border policy I would be voting against the government that implemented said policy.


Democracy has spoken yet now the left will be protesting and rioting because democracy has not voted the way they demanded it to

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

The German Election results actually show the combined far left (die Grunen & die Linke) got 17% of the vote compared to the far right AfD's 13%, but Aunty's news is all about the rise of the Far Right in Germany.

Yes but context is key here. Any "right wing" rise in Germany is going to be big news regardless of how the left poll. The right has be totally demonised in Germany since WW2 where as the left has not.

This is a major shift in German politics and imo a timely one.

here's wee tid-bit from RT:

It's ridiculous, if you think about it, in my opinion it's a country that started two world wars,” a young man told Ruptly, commenting on the AfD election result.

“There's no guilt but there's always responsibility, and now we're going to have 90, I think it's up to 90, well I say openly racist people, in the Bundestag. And that's a shame for this country in my opinion," he added.

https://www.rt.com/news/404397-germany-elections-exit-polls/



Get that guy a tissue

 

[waggys left foot]

Well Ricki democracy also spoke in NZ last week and I see NZ First will determine which of the two main parties governs after your election and will be in the coalition government (again). Fear of immigration is certainly a potent factor in kiwi politics .

Just to be clear AfD wont be in government in Germany tho they will have lots of seats (nearly 90 predicted).

 

[Deleted member 4456]

How in the world is the AfD 'far right'? Come on.

I see that the Central Council of Jews has issued a completely histrionic warning about them, saying that they're the "greatest threat to German Jewry since the 1940s." Dare I say it, they're another leftist organisation comparing their opponents to the Nazis and that their presence in the Bundestag constitutes 'anudder Shoah' as they live up to all of those crappy Jewish stereotypes?

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Well Ricki democracy also spoke in NZ last week and I see NZ First will determine which of the two main parties governs after your election and will be in the coalition government (again). Fear of immigration is certainly a potent factor in kiwi politics .

Just to be clear AfD wont be in government in Germany tho they will have lots of seats (nearly 90 predicted).

NZF did not campaign on immigration issues, but certainly were the only party willing to talk openly and honestly about the impact of immigration here in little ol' NZ.

Immigration is keeping wages low on the one hand and forcing up house prices on the other.

How so? Wealthy Chinese flooding the property market and pushing house prices up so high that Kiwis can no longer afford to buy their own properties. Average house price in Auckland is over $1m.

Then on the other hand employers love migrants from SE Asia as they will work in horrible conditions for minimum wage thus keeping the low wage economy ticking over nicely. Recently they tried to implement changes to ensure the minimum earnings for immigrants would be raised and all the rich employers kicked up a fuss saying that would lose all their cheap labour so the changes were dropped.

welcome to NZ.

I voted Labour in the weekend because I wanted National out as they are turning NZ into a smaller version of the usa

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

How in the world is the AfD 'far right'? Come on.

I see that the Central Council of Jews has issued a completely histrionic warning about them, saying that they're the "greatest threat to German Jewry since the 1940s." Dare I say it, they're another leftist organisation comparing their opponents to the Nazis and that their presence in the Bundestag constitutes 'anudder Shoah' as they live up to all of those crappy Jewish stereotypes?

Didn't they recently also say the rise of islam in Europe was a huge threat to jews living there? If thats the case then they should be happy the AfD got some seats!

I would say Merkel is more dangerous to Jews than the AfD

Some people are never happy it seems!

Or perhaps its just the usual paranoid fear-mongering from the usual suspects as they gain politically from taking such a stance.

Have the World Council Of Jews ever spoken out against Israeli apartheid and the illegal theft of Palestinian land. Don't even get me started on the collective punishment being dished out by Israel on Gaza. Or is it a case of some lives being worth more than others??

 

[Deleted member 4456]

Didn't they recently also say the rise of islam in Europe was a huge threat to jews living there? If thats the case then they should be happy the AfD got some seats!

I would say Merkel is more dangerous to Jews than the AfD

Some people are never happy it seems!

Or perhaps its just the usual paranoid fear-mongering from the usual suspects as they gain politically from taking such a stance.

Have the World Council Of Jews ever spoken out against Israeli apartheid and the illegal theft of Palestinian land. Don't even get me started on the collective punishment being dished out by Israel on Gaza. Or is it a case of some lives being worth more than others??

The Jews who love Israel the most tend to be modern orthodox types who are fairly religious in their minds but would think nothing of driving to shul on the shabbos and parking down the road so it looks like they walked - keeping up with the Cohens, so to speak. People who get appointed to Jewish mouthpieces tend to come from this kind of background. You'll never see the hardcore boys from North London (or any similar strictly orthodox background) making Aliyah; the very strictest Jews tend to be the ones who oppose Zionism the most. On the same token you'll never see people who, like me, couldn't really give a **** about religion but who would still qualify under the Law of Return moving there. It's perfectly safe to be openly Jewish in most parts of Europe these days, but yeah, the new arrivals from the 12th century are making a lot of Jews and people in general uncomfortable. Merkel's stupid 'come one, come all' policy has caused more problems than a few members of the AfD being elected to the Bundestag will.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Didn't they recently also say the rise of islam in Europe was a huge threat to jews living there? If thats the case then they should be happy the AfD got some seats!

I would say Merkel is more dangerous to Jews than the AfD

Some people are never happy it seems!

Or perhaps its just the usual paranoid fear-mongering from the usual suspects as they gain politically from taking such a stance.

Have the World Council Of Jews ever spoken out against Israeli apartheid and the illegal theft of Palestinian land. Don't even get me started on the collective punishment being dished out by Israel on Gaza. Or is it a case of some lives being worth more than others??

I think it's possibly the most ignorant and abusive thing a politician has ever done, the EU having freedom of movement, then Merkel letting in millions of immigrants into Germany, who through freedom of movement could come and live in England, Merkel haad no right to let them into an EU that is not just her Country.

Merkel is a people trafficker like the Nazi's were, she wants them for the cheap labour. And she's a totalitarian, she thinks she can impose things on people, even people on other Countries, with no democratic mandate, she's every inch the abusive Eastern German she was born. I shall break a policy and wish bad things on her.

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

How in the world is the AfD 'far right'? Come on.

I see that the Central Council of Jews has issued a completely histrionic warning about them, saying that they're the "greatest threat to German Jewry since the 1940s." Dare I say it, they're another leftist organisation comparing their opponents to the Nazis and that their presence in the Bundestag constitutes 'anudder Shoah' as they live up to all of those crappy Jewish stereotypes?

They seem to like the comparison, but don't seem to be able to differentiate between military aggression/aggrandisement/invasion & a defensive response.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-afd-says-germany-should-proud-second-world/

And when the Telegraph says you're far right, then you probably are.

 

[Ulfhednar]

They seem to like the comparison, but don't seem to be able to differentiate between military aggression/aggrandisement/invasion & a defensive response.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-afd-says-germany-should-proud-second-world/

And when the Telegraph says you're far right, then you probably are.

They are Merkel's child. In exactly the same way the BNP were the child of Blair / New Labour & their abusive approach of forcing unsustainable immigration on communities, withholding the issue from democratic question, and actively turning a blind eye to the problems it was causing, like Rotherham. If I was German I'd have voted AfD, and I'm part Roma heritage.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

They seem to like the comparison, but don't seem to be able to differentiate between military aggression/aggrandisement/invasion & a defensive response.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-afd-says-germany-should-proud-second-world/

And when the Telegraph says you're far right, then you probably are.

So, what are some of these far right policies that the AfD espouse?

 

[derbyrameater]

So, what are some of these far right policies that the AfD espouse?

“be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars”.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

“be proud of the achievements of German soldiers in two world wars”.

Yeah. One controversial figure's rantings aside? Turning away immigrants isn't necessarily a far right policy.

 

[derbyrameater]

Yeah. One controversial figure's rantings aside? Turning away immigrants isn't necessarily a far right policy.

I agree but is shooting women and children the way to go?

 

[Deleted member 4456]

I agree but is shooting women and children the way to go?

You mean men between the ages of 25 and 30? I don't see them reopening Dachau any time soon to be honest with you.

 

[derbyrameater]

You mean men between the ages of 25 and 30? I don't see them reopening Dachau any time soon to be honest with you.

.."The idea was echoed by her deputy Beatrix von Storch. When she was asked on her Facebook page on Saturday whether German border guards should use weapons against illegal female refugees with children, she answered with a clear "yes.".."

http://www.dw.com/en/afd-deputy-backpedals-on-shooting-at-refugee-children/a-19015194

They are also saying they would put them all in camps, Maybe Dachau comes later.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

.."The idea was echoed by her deputy Beatrix von Storch. When she was asked on her Facebook page on Saturday whether German border guards should use weapons against illegal female refugees with children, she answered with a clear "yes.".."

http://www.dw.com/en/afd-deputy-backpedals-on-shooting-at-refugee-children/a-19015194

They are also saying they would put them all in camps, Maybe Dachau comes later.

This is not 1939; I don't think that German border guards will open fire on any women or children (not least because there aren't actually any women or children arriving - just young, physically fit men). We're not talking about the SS here.

 

[Andy]

This is not 1939; I don't think that German border guards will open fire on any women or children (not least because there aren't actually any women or children arriving - just young, physically fit men). We're not talking about the SS here.

Just to be clear, you think it would be wrong to fire on young, physically fit men too, right?

 

[Pengwern]

AfD only got 12.6 in the end. This is averyvolatile time in electoral politics and will continue like that for some time yet, sofocusing on the latest trend in this gives a notoriety which creates its own momentum. That's what the modern media do - prioritise the moment, regardless of how it's behaviour affects politics.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

They seem to like the comparison, but don't seem to be able to differentiate between military aggression/aggrandisement/invasion & a defensive response.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...t-afd-says-germany-should-proud-second-world/

And when the Telegraph says you're far right, then you probably are.

The media and the left took at the AfD comments about German soldiers in the World Wars and twisted the words so they could be used against the AfD. The guy said basically that the boys and men who served in the German army during the world wars should be recognised and remembered, not relentlessly demonised because of the regimes they served under.

We allow allied soldiers the same dignity in spite of the number of atrocities carried out by allied regimes so why not the average German soldier?

Men and boys who served in armies during WW1 and WW2 were no less victims of war than the civilians that got caught up in it. Maybe thats too much of a radical thought for some to consider?

As for the linked article its is a terribly biased piece of journalism. Words are added and twisted, thus the journo tries to make the AfD guy sound like he said "hitler is great" "nazis are great" and such things.

But if you strip away the journalistic interpretations from this article and instead read only what the politician is quoted as saying he does not even mention Hitler and he even goes as far as to say "“No one has so thoroughly cleansed themselves from the wrongs of the past as the Germans,”


Classic MSM manipulation

 

[kaohsiungwolf]

Last week the BBC were lauding a Germany under Merkel that loved mass immigarantion, with shots of teenagers hugging refugees like little puppies and gushing at how great it all was.

The story was presented as fact, that Germans everywhere were embracing an open door policy, yet anyone who's scratched under the surface and seen the results of German opinion polls on the issue, paints the opposite, in the extreme.

13% for AFD is significant because it's merely the top of the iceberg of public sentiment, rather like Le Pen in France, many wouldn't have touched her with a barge pole, she could never have won, a Le Pen, they're despised by the French, but plenty would have voted for something slightly less extreme.

If we continue with the lunacy (I can't claim it's a policy because there isn't one) of *mass* immigration, we're ****ed.

 

[kaohsiungwolf]

Another example of recent **** reporting by the BBC was comparing the wildly over the top, disparaging, comparison of French and British government response to hurricane Irma.

What they neglected to mention was that the French islands are a fully incorporated department of France, with full French infrastructure, Police, Hospitals, Army, schools, currency etc. as opposed to the British islands that are an entirely separate entity from the UK, and not subject to direct control from Westminster.

 

[derbyrameater]

The media and the left took at the AfD comments about German soldiers in the World Wars and twisted the words so they could be used against the AfD. The guy said basically that the boys and men who served in the German army during the world wars should be recognised and remembered, not relentlessly demonised because of the regimes they served under.

We allow allied soldiers the same dignity in spite of the number of atrocities carried out by allied regimes so why not the average German soldier, who by the end of the war?

Men and boys who served in armies during WW1 and WW2 were no less victims of war than the civilians that got caught up in it. Maybe thats too much of a radical thought for some to consider?

As for the linked article its is a terribly biased piece of journalism. Words are added and twisted, thus the journo tries to make the AfD guy sound like he said "hitler is great" "nazis are great" and such things.

But if you strip away the journalistic interpretations from this article and instead read only what the politician is quoted as saying he does not even mention Hitler and he even goes as far as to say "“No one has so thoroughly cleansed themselves from the wrongs of the past as the Germans,”


Classic MSM manipulation

Yep the SS were just obeying orders and weren't really into genocide while the camp soldiers were just having a jolly.

 

[derbyrameater]

Another example of recent **** reporting by the BBC was comparing the wildly over the top, disparaging, comparison of French and British government response to hurricane Irma.

What they neglected to mention was that the French islands are a fully incorporated department of France, with full French infrastructure, Police, Hospitals, Army, schools, currency etc. as opposed to the British islands that are an entirely separate entity from the UK, and not subject to direct control from Westminster.

Is that the loophole which enables them to be a tax haven?

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Yep the SS were just obeying orders and weren't really into genocide while the camp soldiers were just having a jolly.

First point: he was referring to the German Army in WW1 and 2, NOT the SS. Big difference.

second point: towards the end of the war people were drafted into the SS, they did not volunteer. Big difference.

But good on you for bringing the holocaust up, never takes long

Its 2017 by the way. The war is over.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

AfD only got 12.6 in the end. This is averyvolatile time in electoral politics and will continue like that for some time yet, sofocusing on the latest trend in this gives a notoriety which creates its own momentum. That's what the modern media do - prioritise the moment, regardless of how it's behaviour affects politics.

Yes but you just see everything through your red and black tinted glasses

maybe the AfD are gaining popularity because people don't like what merkel is doing to Germany and Afd offers an appealing alternative? Personally I think it is as simple as that, nothing to do with any media agenda or anything. More to do with merkel doing her best to obliterate Germany's cultural identity by flooding the nation with people from the middle east and africa (open borders: socialist's wet dream!).

The media have spent the last year or so relentlessly bashing the AfD rather than building them up, so I fail to see your logic.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

.."The idea was echoed by her deputy Beatrix von Storch. When she was asked on her Facebook page on Saturday whether German border guards should use weapons against illegal female refugees with children, she answered with a clear "yes.".."

http://www.dw.com/en/afd-deputy-backpedals-on-shooting-at-refugee-children/a-19015194

They are also saying they would put them all in camps, Maybe Dachau comes later.

Again another story taken up by the media, words added to it, twisted and taken out of context and then used to bash the Afd

She said that German police should be able to defend Germany's borders against illegal immigrants. Firearms would be an absolute last resort. You will find this policy in use by numerous countries around the world, with no-one protesting, but here in Germany it becomes a big deal because folk are looking for any way to bring down the AfD.

For the record Women, children, none of them were mentioned as being possible targets: this was all trumped up by the media. I mean come on, DRE, you know how the media work as you often complain about their bias.

 

[derbyrameater]

First point: he was referring to the German Army in WW1 and 2, NOT the SS. Big difference.

second point: towards the end of the war people were drafted into the SS, they did not volunteer. Big difference.

But good on you for bringing the holocaust up, never takes long

Its 2017 by the way. The war is over.

Sorry but it was the AFD who bought it up not me. May I suggest some light reading on the German Army actions in Poland and the Eastern front. It was the German Army who sent women to the SS to be executed, so no difference IMO.

 

[Pengwern]

Yes but you just see everything through your red and black tinted glasses

maybe the AfD are gaining popularity because people don't like what merkel is doing to Germany and Afd offers an appealing alternative? Personally I think it is as simple as that, nothing to do with any media agenda or anything. More to do with merkel doing her best to obliterate Germany's cultural identity by flooding the nation with people from the middle east and africa (open borders: socialist's wet dream!).

The media have spent the last year or so relentlessly bashing the AfD rather than building them up, so I fail to see your logic.

Your trite comment about my red and white reading glasses is crass; we all have general views of the world based on our experiences and influences, you included! The AfD vote is heavily based in the former DDR part of the country, as is that of die Linke, because of the long-standing economic inequality in those parts since unification, so that is where political polarisation is at its sharpest, whereas most migrants have ended up in the western cities, where the jobs are more plentiful and pay is higher, so you are ignoring complexity in favour of an analysis which you like better!

It's not just Merkel and her party who lost big, as the actual votes show - the disillusion is with the SPD too, as those are the coalition partners and, as elsewhere, the centre ground of politics with its close adherence to neoliberalism has left so many people feeling unrepresented, cynical about politics and in search of alternatives. The migrant issue is just one, but the huge increase in the liberal vote in those very western areas where most migrants have settled shows a fear of the AfD's xenophobic racism, an empathy towards migrants facing demonisation and a protest against the arrogance and undemocratic practices of big parties.

Your narrative is as cheap as the BBC one and along more or less the same lines - any increase for the populist right is pained as evidencing xenophobia on the rise. Opinion polls taken here outside election time show a substantial underlying to.erance and empathy in respect of migrants; it's the media and politicians who tell us different!

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Sorry but it was the AFD who bought it up not me. May I suggest some light reading on the German Army actions in Poland and the Eastern front. It was the German Army who sent women to the SS to be executed, so no difference IMO.

But you miss the point totally: the AfD politician was not talking about glorifying any aspect of the German army in WW1 or WW2, he was talking about remembering them just as people in most other countries do for their war dead.

Because don't forget soldiers are people too and if you or I had been born in Germany and been of the right age when the war broke out we too would have been serving in the German army or even the SS.

Herman Hesse, well known left wing German author was drafted into the SS in WW2 for example. The previous Pope was in the Hitler Youth and on it goes

I believe ALL victims of war should be remembered not just some.

All wars are the same: its the politicians far from the action getting the average guy to do their dirty work by using either coercion or indoctrination. Every country does it or has done it.

Meanwhile another US drone attack kills innocent women and children in Yemen...the trigger pulled by some young guy heavily indoctrinated and dehumanised to the point he feels no human connection with the person in his cross hairs....he is just following orders and history keeps repeating itself

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Some people believe the AfD are controlled opposition in the same way the NPD were found to he heavily infiltrated by the German Police years back.

This theory does has its merits for just hours after the AfD did so well in the elections their leader resigned throwing the AfD into chaos. Why would a leader try to destablise her party at a moment of such great success for it?

Jim this ones for you!

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

Your trite comment about my red and white reading glasses is crass; we all have general views of the world based on our experiences and influences, you included! The AfD vote is heavily based in the former DDR part of the country, as is that of die Linke, because of the long-standing economic inequality in those parts since unification, so that is where political polarisation is at its sharpest, whereas most migrants have ended up in the western cities, where the jobs are more plentiful and pay is higher, so you are ignoring complexity in favour of an analysis which you like better!

It's not just Merkel and her party who lost big, as the actual votes show - the disillusion is with the SPD too, as those are the coalition partners and, as elsewhere, the centre ground of politics with its close adherence to neoliberalism has left so many people feeling unrepresented, cynical about politics and in search of alternatives. The migrant issue is just one, but the huge increase in the liberal vote in those very western areas where most migrants have settled shows a fear of the AfD's xenophobic racism, an empathy towards migrants facing demonisation and a protest against the arrogance and undemocratic practices of big parties.

Your narrative is as cheap as the BBC one and along more or less the same lines - any increase for the populist right is pained as evidencing xenophobia on the rise. Opinion polls taken here outside election time show a substantial underlying to.erance and empathy in respect of migrants; it's the media and politicians who tell us different!

Yes but don't forget that in Germany even the mere presence of a party like the AfD in mainstream politics is a huge change in the post WW2 political landscape. Even just ten years ago such a thing would have been absolutely unthinkable, yet here we are: it is now reality. Massive.

This is the same Germany that for decades and decades after WW2 was too ashamed to even wave their flags at football grounds for fear of being seen as nationalistic.

There is a new mood in Europe: centralist parties are losing support and the parties to the right and the left of them are picking up momentum and honestly who can blame people for being fed up with neo-liberalism.

France will soon learn that Macron is just another one world neo-liberal and they made a huge mistake to vote him in.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

This is the same Germany that for decades and decades after WW2 was too ashamed to even wave their flags at football grounds for fear of being seen as nationalistic.

There is a new mood in Europe: centralist parties are losing support and the parties to the right and the left of them are picking up momentum and honestly who can blame people for being fed up with neo-liberalism.

How many decades?

It's true that the economic crash and austerity has pushed more people to the extremes, but choosing the correct alternative rather than just something different is the important thing. The right never have the answer for the working classes, just a pretence that the problems are caused by minorities from their own ranks.

 

[ricki herberts moustache]

How many decades?
View attachment 2396
It's true that the economic crash and austerity has pushed more people to the extremes, but choosing the correct alternative rather than just something different is the important thing. The right never have the answer for the working classes, just a pretence that the problems are caused by minorities from their own ranks.

I stand by my comment. I met many many Germans too ashamed to fly their countries flag with pride for fear of being seen as nationalist. Even having the words "Deutschland" on a shirt was a step too far for many

As for your second comment: who are you to say what is the correct way for other people to vote? You are allowed your opinion for sure but you are but one voice among billions and everyone is entitled to vote as they see correct, not as you see as being correct

 

[Deleted member 3573J]

Some people believe the AfD are controlled opposition in the same way the NPD were found to he heavily infiltrated by the German Police years back.

This theory does has its merits for just hours after the AfD did so well in the elections their leader resigned throwing the AfD into chaos. Why would a leader try to destablise her party at a moment of such great success for it?

Jim this ones for you!

I think they probably are controlled, most western political parties are the same group of people, they just wear a different mask. I don't know very much about German politics but just look at a similar party in the UK, UKIP may present itself as being different from the other main parties but they are still controlled by the same people who control the Tories, Zionists. Why would they have a 'UKIP friends of Israel' organisation for example if they weren't controlled by them? It'd just be weird.