Amber Rudd... and foreign footballers

[Big Saft Kid]

The government plans to require employers to list the names of its foreign employees, apparently in a attempt to 'shame' employers who it thinks should be employing more Brits. This will be an interesting exercise for football clubs, including Wolves... I wonder how 'ashamed' our Chinese owners and Italian manager will be?

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

Nothing to do with shaming at all, by understanding how many immigrants companies have and what jobs they do this country can perhaps alter education and training to give British people a level playing field.

 

[Pengwern]

The Tories have belatedly put the emphasis where the Left has argued for it to be all along - see my post on the thread about Coventry and Wolverhampton. Employers have ducked their responsibility for training over decades, happy to see public money and other countries pay for its trained workers.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

The Tories have belatedly put the emphasis where the Left has argued for it to be all along - see my post on the thread about Coventry and Wolverhampton. Employers have ducked their responsibility for training over decades, happy to see public money and other countries pay for its trained workers.

We aren't talking skilled workers by en large though. In service stations, restaraunts, Costa Coffees etc and you will find high levels of foreign labour.

These are jobs which will give low level / on the job training....the problem is many English workers see this type of work as beneath them.

The company I work for has probably 35% foreign workers maybe more, does nationality concern me when I employ? Not at all.

What I want is people who are reliable and turn up to do a decent day's work.

Are foreign workers better / harder working - think this is a myth from my experience, initially it may have been the case but now it's much of a muchness I think. Whether this is because people are now wise to the ridiculous levels of benefits available which encourage less working I do not know but what i can say is we pay well over minimum wage but still struggle with attendance.

I offered a manager 32k and a car a few years back- he refused the car Asked for 25k as it would affect his family tax credits. - how much exactly was he getting - it's ridiculous.

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

I don't think the Chinese will be too upset. The more insular and petty our country becomes the more we'll frighten off foreign capital and the cheaper our assets - like Wolves - will become to buy up. I work closely with HMRC datasets, anybody like to hazard a guess as to how many new companies and ownership entities registered to Chinese citizens have been set up since the Brexit vote?

 

[ShropshireLad]

I don't think the Chinese will be too upset. The more insular and petty our country becomes the more we'll frighten off foreign capital and the cheaper our assets - like Wolves - will become to buy up. I work closely with HMRC datasets, anybody like to hazard a guess as to how many new companies and ownership entities registered to Chinese citizens have been set up since the Brexit vote?

I would think it's quite a few.

There'll be three football clubs for a start.

 

[Peszkywolf]

There's a lot of rich chinese with money to invest, but it doesn't look all rosy for the Chinese...that economy has so much debt and a ridiculous property bubble.
Bit like the UK. We'd have put rules in place stopping foreign ownership of property but for the fact our own bubble would've burst years ago.
Don't you think all migrants work harder out of necessity, sending money home or just the fact the wages are so much higher than back home?

 

[Big Saft Kid]

But to bring the thread back to the topic -- it's unclear as yet whether there will be any 'penalties' for employing too many foreign workers, but that is surely the way the wind is blowing to judge from what Rudd (and May) have said this week. I don't know what proportion of PL squads are 'foreign' (which may also soon include EU nationals) but it must be high, especially at the top end. We have just imported 11 'foreign' players ourselves.

IMO the whole idea is nuts. I am old enough to remember the 50s, when the UK was begging people from the Commonwealth to come over and fill the vacancies Brits couldn't/wouldn't fill, Wolverhampton being a prime example: it was a prosperous town with full employment back then.

 

[Mr Wolf]

anybody like to hazard a guess as to how many new companies and ownership entities registered to Chinese citizens have been set up since the Brexit vote?

17

It's a fair call I would say, during the whole Brexit run in my friend who runs a scaffolding company makes an extra 20-25% a year now because he employs foreign workers who accept £9-£14 an hour instead of £13-£18 which he had to pay British workers.

I don't think football clubs have to announce anything as we all know the players & of the 100's of employees most will be British I would say.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

She's making a list
She's checking it twice
She's travelling round the land with a tattooing device
Amber Rudd is coming to town

 

[bigbluewolf]

Just give them all yellow stars...

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Nothing to do with shaming at all, by understanding how many immigrants companies have and what jobs they do this country can perhaps alter education and training to give British people a level playing field.

I wish you were right but fear you are not. IMO it's a question of jumping on the current bandwagon of '(nasty) foreigners' in an attempt to grab some of the UKIP voters back. There's 130,000 foreign nationals working for the NHS alone, from cleaners to consultants; a third of all university research scientists are 'foreign'. Just not thought through. Even yesterday's Telegraph thought it was a daft thing to do, as does the CBI and the Institute of Directors.

 

[Andy]

If someone is completely at ease with what Amber Rudd is suggesting, then there is something wrong with them.

 

[long ball man]

As soon as you start identifying people as being different you scapegoat them.

What happens when we identify all the immigrant workers, then limit the numbers coming in and people still have **** lives?
Answer we scapegoat the lesser numbers that come in. So we then stop immigration.
And still the white working classes suffer.
So we blame those who were born here but whose parents or grandparents were immigrants.
But things still dont improve so we blame the Jews or Gays.

See where this ends? This is a very dark road indeed.

 

[Mutchy]

If this is to be a general discussion, the OT forum will be the place for it.

 

[Ivegotawolvesscarf]

Nothing to do with shaming at all, by understanding how many immigrants companies have and what jobs they do this country can perhaps alter education and training to give British people a level playing field.

I'm sure there are tens of thousands of British nationals being held back from their dream of being an NHS consultant because they're being undercut by cheap foreign labour.

 

[Jonzy54]

I am not taking sides but isn't it to do with' Non EU Immigrants' being employed?

 

[JOSWolf]

She can **** off!

 

[Jonzy54]

She can **** off!

Well that's settled that then

 

[WasStefan]

I'd like to know how this is going to work when a lot of employers don't even hold origin of birth of employees let alone if they are EU or none EU

 

[derbyrameater]

I did mention her history in the May thread but it stirred no interest, it might now?

"UK home secretary named as having been director of two Bahamas firms, while a co-director at another company was jailed over a false statement"..

.."The Guardian has also discovered new details about her previous career in venture capital during the boom and bust 1990s. One enterprise led her to become a co-director of Monticello, a company that was at the centre of a share ramping investigation.

She was also involved in a company prospecting for diamonds in Siberia that was traded on a notoriously unregulated stock exchange.

Rudd said that her career in business prior to politics was public knowledge but declined to answer questions, including whether she had invested in the Bahamas companies or whether either company had paid tax in the UK."..

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-reveal-amber-rudd-involvement-offshore-firms

 

[waggys left foot]

Poor old Amber ,Remainer with brother as a big cheese in the stay in campaign now reduced to scrabbling around in the gutter to find ways to cut immigration.

Meanwhile predictions that Fox and Hammond will go mano to mano over trade and only one will survive.Such unity.

 

[Pengwern]

I wish you were right but fear you are not. IMO it's a question of jumping on the current bandwagon of '(nasty) foreigners' in an attempt to grab some of the UKIP voters back. There's 130,000 foreign nationals working for the NHS alone, from cleaners to consultants; a third of all university research scientists are 'foreign'. Just not thought through. Even yesterday's Telegraph thought it was a daft thing to do, as does the CBI and the Institute of Directors.

I think this is pretty much spot on, in terms of the political motivation for this (UKIP), although, to do so, the tories do have to jump on the anti-immigrant & 'British Workers First' bandwagon that Gordon Brown started.

As your examples say, this is certainly not just or mainly about low-paid unskilled work. People are missing my point about how Thatcher's government allowed employers across the board off the hook as far as having to train their own workforce was concerned, which has had an enormous positive effect on their profit margins ever since. This is why the CBI and most employers' organisations supported Remain - they wanted to continue importing cheaper foreign workers for low=skill jobs and already trained ones for higher skilled jobs.

This is a wonderful piece of opportunism by the Tories, partly because it undermines Corbyn's promise to clamp down on employers involved in super-exploitation of foreign workers and to compensate areas with a new wave of immigration with extra central government funding so that service provision can respond without disadvantaging existing residents, by re-framing the problem entirely in terms of the employment of foreigners instead of British people. This helps the Blairites against Corbyn, nicks the clothes of UKIP and keeps xenophobia going strong, to undermine a united radical opposition from among the mass of people who are suffering from the implementation of neoloiberalism by the Tories and Blairites.

Yes, Mutchy, put this on the OT rather than here!

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

The Tories have belatedly put the emphasis where the Left has argued for it to be all along - see my post on the thread about Coventry and Wolverhampton. Employers have ducked their responsibility for training over decades, happy to see public money and other countries pay for its trained workers.

They have but they've done so unwittingly imo and it was never for that purpose.

There are plenty of meaningful policies that can be done to tackle this actual issue, Labour and Corbyn, need to use this opportunity to press those home to the public as the cures to problems that arise when big business does not pay its way; rather than get caught up in yet another immigration debate when that is merely a symptom.

If I was Labour in communications team I'd also insist upon using this language, you can talk about faceless big businesses in terms of a disease, an illness ect. but I think very few regardless of whether in favour or not of immigration would accept the same terms being used about humans, immigrants, which is also something Labour need to do, start humanizing immigrants again after several campaigns of dehumanizing them.

Patriots pay their taxes was a significant improvement in the use of language though at the Labour conference.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

After this, Rudd shouldn't be in placed any public position. While I am very anti any form of Positive Discrimination this is as equally ill thought out and extremely divisive. Why do we put up with people like this?