Today’s Games 2023-2024

[Frank Lincoln]

Will that be the last one in the San Siro?

I am not sure, but I think I recall reading that it may be 2026 before the San Siro hosts it’s final game.

 

[thommo1984]

Generally, offsides have been more accepted (I feel anyway) in the football world when it comes to VAR

Wish I lived in your world!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Wish I lived in your world!

Haha, Maybe I'm off with that one, but I do feel the anger towards close offsides had died down after the first few months.

It's going to be a LOT worse next season when this semi-automated stuff comes in. The reaction from fans when they see how marginal it will be is going to be incredible if yesterday is anything to go by.

 

[wolvesjoe]

Haha, Maybe I'm off with that one, but I do feel the anger towards close offsides had died down after the first few months.

It's going to be a LOT worse next season when this semi-automated stuff comes in. The reaction from fans when they see how marginal it will be is going to be incredible if yesterday is anything to go by.

This may not be the case, as I understand it.

The new automated system has been trialled in women's football in Denmark, and has generally been well-received.

A friend here who does a podcast on women's football here showed me some of the examples they use to explain the system, and it seems that avoiding the ultra-marginal calls, that fly in the face of a 100 years of reform of the offside law, is built into the interpretive algorithms of the system.

That would be a victory for reason and common sense, so lets not get our hopes up too high.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Football is no longer a sport.

Absolutely it’s too forensic

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes, perhaps, probably right. But that's irrelevant now really as we would have a TV company showing us and once we saw it was offside then there would be outrage.

I firmly believe this is anti-United. Generally, offsides have been more accepted (I feel anyway) in the football world when it comes to VAR but because it's denied a great story, it's now getting criticised.

I do get that stance by the way. I just can't imagine people would be so understanding had Arsenal beat us 1-0 on Saturday night with a goal that we could see within 60 seconds that was offside!

It may be that there's some extra sympathy for Cov having their moment of pure joy snatched away, there may be some anti Man U sentiment too. Certainly the way it destroyed a great story has increased the profile of the decision.

However it's only the lines that have made it so marginal and controversial, the lines only exist because the PGMOL decided it was a factual matter and technology was the answer. However they ignored the whole concept of what people really understood as level.

All of this is irrelevant though really. What matters, and what maybe caught Cov fans out, was that the whole game for fans is, ball hits net, look at lino, check ref, go mental. Not go mental, realise ref has his finger in his ear, wait 2 minutes, don't get any information apart from maybe a big screen announcement. We all sympathise as it's 2 weeks since exactly that (albeit with less significance) happened to us.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

This may not be the case, as I understand it.

The new automated system has been trialled in women's football in Denmark, and has generally been well-received.

A friend here who does a podcast on women's football here showed me some of the examples they use to explain the system, and it seems that avoiding the ultra-marginal calls, that fly in the face of a 100 years of reform of the offside law, is built into the interpretive algorithms of the system.

That would be a victory for reason and common sense, so lets not get our hopes up too high.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718580890790515046

 

[jrpb-3]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1718580890790515046

If you can accurately measure down to the millimetre then why would you want to measure less accurately that just increases cases where line is the wrong side on or off to actual position

What is more difficult is for the players themselves to judge if they are on or off down to the mm, but that could easy be solved e.g. if deemed on average a player can judge to 5cm if on or off then put the line 5cm in front of defender, but still measure that to the mm

 

[dizzydonut]

If you can accurately measure down to the millimetre then why would you want to measure less accurately that just increases cases where line is the wrong side on or off to actual position

What is more difficult is for the players themselves to judge if they are on or off down to the mm, but that could easy be solved e.g. if deemed on average a player can judge to 5cm if on or off then put the line 5cm in front of defender, but still measure that to the mm

Heard it all before though, the new tech will <insert fixed problem here> real question is can they? We see images above like they were taken with a 2011 smartphone, on a system with a frame rate of 50 frames per second.

For instance - traore runs at 36kmph so at 50 frames per send it’s potentially 20 cm between frames, at 120 fps it’s 8.3cm. Even a slow footballer and I mean slow 100m /15s slow, at 120 fps, it’s 5.5cm. This is probably ok if they simulate the position between frames taken on the before and after frames, but from what I’ve seen this is not the case.

On the semi automatic is the intention to show actual footage or simulated ? Simulated will be a problem as it will exaggerate the decision!

So the problem isn’t just the use of technology, and this is a big problem, it’s the tech itself which doesn’t appear to be fit for purpose!

 

[wolvesjoe]

Heard it all before though, the new tech will <insert fixed problem here> real question is can they? We see images above like they were taken with a 2011 smartphone, on a system with a frame rate of 50 frames per second.

For instance - traore runs at 36kmph so at 50 frames per send it’s potentially 20 cm between frames, at 120 fps it’s 8.3cm. Even a slow footballer and I mean slow 100m /15s slow, at 120 fps, it’s 5.5cm. This is probably ok if they simulate the position between frames taken on the before and after frames, but from what I’ve seen this is not the case.

On the semi automatic is the intention to show actual footage or simulated ? Simulated will be a problem as it will exaggerate the decision!

So the problem isn’t just the use of technology, and this is a big problem, it’s the tech itself which doesn’t appear to be fit for purpose!

Very clear explanation.....the technology does not support these margins of decision.
There is then the awful realisation that the technology is often actually ruling out skilled play by the attack ING side.

This then also allows for bias in decision making to hide behind the pseudo neutrality of the technology.

It really is a **** show.

Then put the issue into the broader historical context.

All the changes from 1925 onwards are about favouring the attacker and preventing defenders from abusing the law.

Up until VAR

A hundred years of enlightened reform and now this crap.

 

[rubyloo]

Well, have they scrapped it yet? or is the entire country saying its a joke not quite enough?

The introduction of VAR in this country should be used as a case study in how not to do change management.

Absolute disaster from start to finish.

Regardless of any debate around whether the actual technology is fit for purpose, how can you possibly have a process which involves thousands of people wildly celebrating only to be told a few minutes later - "sorry, just kidding"

 

[loppers86]

Well, have they scrapped it yet? or is the entire country saying its a joke not quite enough?

The introduction of VAR in this country should be used as a case study in how not to do change management.

Absolute disaster from start to finish.

Regardless of any debate around whether the actual technology is fit for purpose, how can you possibly have a process which involves thousands of people wildly celebrating only to be told a few minutes later - "sorry, just kidding"

the few minutes are just a placeholder for ad breaks mid game.

 

[jrpb-3]

Heard it all before though, the new tech will <insert fixed problem here> real question is can they? We see images above like they were taken with a 2011 smartphone, on a system with a frame rate of 50 frames per second.

For instance - traore runs at 36kmph so at 50 frames per send it’s potentially 20 cm between frames, at 120 fps it’s 8.3cm. Even a slow footballer and I mean slow 100m /15s slow, at 120 fps, it’s 5.5cm. This is probably ok if they simulate the position between frames taken on the before and after frames, but from what I’ve seen this is not the case.

On the semi automatic is the intention to show actual footage or simulated ? Simulated will be a problem as it will exaggerate the decision!

So the problem isn’t just the use of technology, and this is a big problem, it’s the tech itself which doesn’t appear to be fit for purpose!

Which is why I said if. How accurate is a linesman in judging offside though and how consistent. Is the tech more or less accurate/consistent

Whatever method you use and whatever margin there will always be cases that are right on the line marginal one way or other within the error margin

 

[wolvesjoe]

Which is why I said if. How accurate is a linesman in judging offside though and how consistent is tech more or less accurate/consistent

Whatever method you use and whatever margin there will always be cases that are right on the line marginal one way or other within the error margin

To be honest, we are probably not far from an acceptable compromise. Wenger said just draw the lines a bit thicker. And that would settle the vast majority of these margin calls. And restore the spirit of the game at the same time.

The current setup is about the power of the referees in my opinion and preserving the option of cheating, as happened in the semi final.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

The one problem with VAR that no one talks about is not where the attackers toe nail is but where is the ball officially passed from. Is it the point at which the contact is first made with the ball or when the last point of contact is.

You could argue that the action of passing the ball starts before the first contact is made and it's reasonable for the attacker to react at that point, as you would also expect the defender to. The fact that the attacker is usually facing the direction the ball is travelling in and the defender mostly likely needing to adjust, the attacker will always respond quicker and be ahead of the defender.

With this in mind the point at which pass action starts should IMHO be the point at which the onside/offside decision should be judged as that is the critical point. Would be interested to see if there is clarity in the first instance on point of contact at which the decision is based and any study on consistency of judgement.

In any case as the point was made above, there are doubts on whether the FPS can provide conclusive proof.

 

[NJ Wolves]

You'll be watching next Saturday and be back next season.

The Wolves? Yes. Although it feels more of an obligation at this point.

I've definitely been watching far less 'neutral' games than I used to though.

 

[hankin]

I am not sure, but I think I recall reading that it may be 2026 before the San Siro hosts it’s final game.

I visited the San Siro the day after the Torino match. Such a unique and special stadium. It seems criminal to knock it down and replace it with a smaller stadium in the car park.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

I am not sure, but I think I recall reading that it may be 2026 before the San Siro hosts it’s final game.

Looks like those plans to demolish it and for both clubs to head elsewhere have been ditched.

San Siro renovation plans outlined - Coliseum

Plans for the redevelopment of the San Siro stadium have been presented by authorities in Milan, Italy.

www.coliseum-online.com

 

[lets all have a disco]

I visited the San Siro the day after the Torino match. Such a unique and special stadium. It seems criminal to knock it down and replace it with a smaller stadium in the car park.

Did the same the day after Torino....hangover cure.....

 

[brianm]

The problem isn't the tech. It's the people. More specifically, I put the majority of the problem down to awful, contemptible leadership. These poor *******s are so confused with the instructions from above that they perform horrendously. One might say none of them are in any form if they were players.

I also think the talent of the refs is obscenely low, but it's being made worse.

 

[Norman Bell]

While here in England there have been arguments raging over VAR I am staggered to find out the best bit of technology to actually help the game in goal line technology ( apart from when the bloody thing failed and kept Villa up after the Sheffield United match ) is not in use in La Liga. @RosehillWolf mentioned last night that Barcelona got screwed and a massive row is raging in Spain. Barcelona are threatening legal action, who do they think they are, Forest

 

[Bryce]

If this photo is genuine then Anthony joins the obnoxious little weed club with honours

 

[Norman Bell]

If this photo is genuine then Anthony joins the obnoxious little weed club with honoursView attachment 42112

Somebody on here has alrerady mentioned this but Clinton Morrison ( he is far better on the Radio than on Sky ) said that " Antony needs to concentrate on himself " . I think Clinton also suggested Antony is no more than a lower championship player !

I noticed Captain Rat Fernandes was trash talking the Coventry keeper after he scored in the penalty shoot out. Maybe the Sky Blues keeper said something to trigger it but I doubt it.

As you say Antony and Fernandes names are carved in stone on any obnoxious weed select eleven .

 

[Frank Lincoln]

If this photo is genuine then Anthony joins the obnoxious little weed club with honoursView attachment 42112

Disgraceful and disrespectful behaviour by Anthony. Though it should be mentioned that as soon as the winning penalty was scored, Harry Maguire went straight up to the Coventry City players and shook their hands.

 

[jackdusty]

If this photo is genuine then Anthony joins the obnoxious little weed club with honoursView attachment 42112

Where's Brian Kilcline when you need him!

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Well you are either on or off.

There’s a margin for error with Hawkeye as well, admittedly smaller.

The point is that the same process is applied to everyone for offsides. They draw the lines and there’s also a margin for error there.

When VAR decide that the ball has been kicked and has left the foot is a subjective decision. Also the lines drawn aren't always accurate. There is too much room for error and yet massive decisions are based on it. Until they come up with a better system I would ditch it.

 

[Bryce]

Obnoxious 11 would contain
Martinez
Gibbs White
Richarlison
Anthony
Fernandez
Mings
Ashley Young

Feel free to add to the squad! Must be 2024 prem players

 

[theweave]

Obnoxious 11 would contain
Martinez
Gibbs White
Richarlison
Anthony
Fernandez
Mings
Ashley Young

Feel free to add to the squad! Must be 2024 prem players

Yates

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Obnoxious 11 would contain
Martinez
Gibbs White
Richarlison
Anthony
Fernandez
Mings
Ashley Young

Feel free to add to the squad! Must be 2024 prem players

Ben White and Kurt Zouma.

 

[Skrilla]

Obnoxious 11 would contain
Martinez
Gibbs White
Richarlison
Anthony
Fernandez
Mings
Ashley Young

Feel free to add to the squad! Must be 2024 prem players

Martinez
Coufal Martinez White Zouma Zinchenko
McGinn Partey
Antony Maupay MGW
​

That would be my team... some for reasons that are potentially libelous!

 

[lobodelsur]

If you can accurately measure down to the millimetre then why would you want to measure less accurately that just increases cases where line is the wrong side on or off to actual position

What is more difficult is for the players themselves to judge if they are on or off down to the mm, but that could easy be solved e.g. if deemed on average a player can judge to 5cm if on or off then put the line 5cm in front of defender, but still measure that to the mm

If they can measure with that degree of accuracy, change the law so that if any part of the attackers body is in line with any part of the defenders then he is 'onside'. Then we revert to what we have been trying to do for decades - give the advantage to the attacker.

 

[JonahWolf]

Martinez
Coufal Martinez White Zouma Zinchenko
McGinn Partey
Antony Maupay MGW
​

That would be my team... some for reasons that are potentially libelous!

Can’t be that libellous, you’ve only put their names on a list. Which may happen to more than one of them in the future.

 

[wolvesjoe]

If they can measure with that degree of accuracy, change the law so that if any part of the attackers body is in line with any part of the defenders then he is 'onside'. Then we revert to what we have been trying to do for decades - give the advantage to the attacker.

In general, the old system relying on linesmen tended towards favouring the attacker. Most linesmen would only flag if they were sure it was offside as the game could be decided on a wrong call. In that context, always better to give a goal, than stop a goal.

So VAR tends to reverse the direction of the game re. this key rule of offside, while at the same time destroying the atmosphere after a goal.

All of these baked in problems more and more point towards getting rid of the system, rather than trying to modify and repair it.

 

[JadeWolf]

If this photo is genuine then Anthony joins the obnoxious little weed club with honoursView attachment 42112

At least he’s not doing it to a teenage ballboy.

 

[jackdusty]

Inter 1-0 up away in the derby, officially win the title tonight if they win.

 

[WolvesAndCows]

Boro 1-0 Leeds

 

[RosehillWolf]

What are all these stupid signs these players do with their fingers and thumbs.

 

[S G Wolves]

Boro 1-0 Leeds

In PL that would be scrutinised for 2 mins bull **** VAR

 

[WolvesAndCows]

Peno to Leeds

1-1

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

How does automated offside measure when the ball leaves a players foot?