The all new reverse-reverse Gary O’Neil humble pie safe space thread

[SydneyWolf26]

I think he’d get a lot more credit from me if he had “been there and done it”. Would definitely feel more confident in what he says, although sadly he sounds a tad delusional at times. A couple of good (surprise results) before the end of the year and it will look rosier, at the moment it feels like we are on a downward trajectory though

 

[lets all have a disco]

To be honest if the bottom three weren't so crap we might well be.

Leicester beat Blues tonight and are romping the Chump. Saints and DLS, the other two who went down last season, 3rd and 4th. Next season will undoubtedly be harder.

It will if we continue the current cost cutting exercises....none of us mind changing of a few players but I'm not convinced we will be signing at an equal level......we seen it in the summer, any more downgrades it will be suicidal..... experience in a squad is crucial at this level......they are the players who help you get of bad runs.....

We need a couple of first team players starting in January....and then a couple more in the summer....not another 5/6 like we got in the summer....it was understandable in the summer but won't be going forward.....a Jonathan Rowe will be fine if coupled with a decent experienced forward...but not another cheap inexperienced signing ..

 

[Ned]

To be honest if the bottom three weren't so crap we might well be.

Leicester beat Blues tonight and are romping the Chump. Saints and DLS, the other two who went down last season, 3rd and 4th. Next season will undoubtedly be harder.

Yep, agree with next season. This year is an anomaly in terms of such terrible sides at the bottom of the table; it’s ideal for GON to put his stamp on the team… but it has to be a good stamp.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Whether we rate Gary O'Neil or not , for me he is exactly what I thought he would be OK but not great....Same as he was at Bournemouth....the most pressing issue going forward will be finances .....we can't continue the current slide with finances off the pitch.....we probably needed cost cutting in the summer but anymore going forward could be fatal.....Change yes, but not if cost cutting is the main agenda....

 

[Adrian_Monk]

The biggest concern for me outside (albeit linked to) his lack of experience is the analysis paralysis. Despite an army of analysts surrounded by iPads and headsets, he seems to freeze when tasked with steering the momentum in our direction by being proactive. As I've said previously, this may be down to lack of 'muscle memory' from his limited experience in the dugout (my chief opposition to his appointment), it may be down to a dogmatic absence of trust in the alternative options available to him, more likely it's a combination of the two and perhaps even a trait in his personality - I guess the proof will be in the pudding when he clears the decks a little and acquires additional resource

 

[Starsky]

Whether we rate Gary O'Neil or not , for me he is exactly what I thought he would be OK but not great....Same as he was at Bournemouth....the most pressing issue going forward will be finances .....we can't continue the current slide with finances off the pitch.....we probably needed coat cutting in the summer but anymore going forward could be fatal.....Change yes, but bit if cost cutting is the main agenda....

Totally agree.

Can't be overly bothered with the GON debate now.

We won't go down and we should be in a really healthy state,financially, come the Summer to sort the squad properly.

Then it's over to Fosun and we will all know exactly where we stand.

 

[wwbug]

Please please lets have a gradual upgrade in the squad.
One thing I feel sure about is that Fosun will not have unreasonable requests from GON .
My hope is that when he tells them what we need they will act.
So if we dont see a few sensible additions this January do not expect them in future.
It wouldn't make sense to save money for a massive summer rebuild under GON .

 

[wolfslair]

The biggest concern for me outside (albeit linked to) his lack of experience is the analysis paralysis. Despite an army of analysts surrounded by iPads and headsets, he seems to freeze when tasked with steering the momentum in our direction by being proactive. As I've said previously, this may be down to lack of 'muscle memory' from his limited experience in the dugout (my chief opposition to his appointment), it may be down to a dogmatic absence of trust in the alternative options available to him, more likely it's a combination of the two and perhaps even a trait in his personality - I guess the proof will be in the pudding when he clears the decks a little and acquires additional resource

He is a pure product of the English coaching system!!! All his style is based on being procedural and structural and no room for creative type players. It is why he is great at watching video and seeing how tomstop/stifle a team, but so basic in how to attack minded/change to be proactive.

A few times he says he has been suprised that the team changed from the videos he watched and prepared for like Luton for example he said this….

No **** shrilock!!! Other coaches watch game tape on us and set up to actually ATTACK us!!! They won’t do the same things every week if they have a path to victory against us that the didn’t in the previous weeks.

It is why he gets plaudits and fans at the FA as he is a poster child for their system as he is studious, knows the game and can articulate himself well and knows his way around a power point.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Totally agree.

Can't be overly bothered with the GON debate now.

We won't go down and we should be in a really healthy state,financially, come the Summer to sort the squad properly.

Then it's over to Fosun and we will all know exactly where we stand.

As I say not a big fan of O'Neil, done OK but he needs to show a bit more for me to get the gig for next season....But if the finances don't improve or loosen going forward it won't matter who is in charge....the decline will continue...

I want a bit of change in January but my underlying issue seems to be , it's another cost cutting exercises.....Yes change is needed and would be good but if it's has to be done in alignment with cost cutting it won't benefit us at all in the long term....

I got it in the summer but won't get it going forward .....and if it continues general result won't improve at all....

 

[North West Wanderer]

He is a pure product of the English coaching system!!! All his style is based on being procedural and structural and no room for creative type players. It is why he is great at watching video and seeing how tomstop/stifle a team, but so basic in how to attack minded/change to be proactive.

A few times he says he has been suprised that the team changed from the videos he watched and prepared for like Luton for example he said this….

No **** shrilock!!! Other coaches watch game tape on us and set up to actually ATTACK us!!! They won’t do the same things every week if they have a path to victory against us that the didn’t in the previous weeks.

It is why he gets plaudits and fans at the FA as he is a poster child for their system as he is studious, knows the game and can articulate himself well and knows his way around a power point.

if there’s no space for creative players, why are Neto, Hwang and Cunha all having better seasons ?

 

[North West Wanderer]

As I say not a big fan of O'Neil, done OK but he needs to show a bit more for me to get the gig for next season....But if the finances don't improve or loosen going forward it won't matter who is in charge....the decline will continue...

I want a bit of change in January but my underlying issue seems to be , it's another cost cutting exercises.....Yes change is needed and would be good but if it's has to be done in alignment with cost cutting it won't benefit us at all in the long term....

I got it in the summer but won't get it going forward .....and if it continues general result won't improve at all....

me neither but it must seem like i am sometimes..
i hate revisionism and posters being disingenuous to try and prove their point.

 

[DanishWolf]

if there’s no space for creative players, why are Neto, Hwang and Cunha all having better seasons ?

Agree with this except I wouldnt call Hwang creative..

But I certainly see players with more freedom/confidence to express themselves.

 

[wolfslair]

if there’s no space for creative players, why are Neto, Hwang and Cunha all having better seasons ?

It is nuanced isn’t it….. just because you have three playing well, doesn’t mean they are being allowed to play to their potential because of the confines of the system. Quality will often still shine or take chances even if they are limited in number.

Ok, so our manager has openly said on multiple occasions that our players moved around too much and didn’t follow a structure…. That isn’t exactly a mindset that allows for creative and free thinking play is it?

Even in a structured team there will be moments where we attack and they are allowed to play to strengths as you cannot defend totally for 90 minutes.

But the majority of the tactics/strategy is safety first. That cannot be argued!!!

We look to contain and frustrate more than create and so many of our goals have been long passes for a fast lad to run onto or benefiting off a mistake in the final third. We have had very few and fleeting moments of actual quality in the final third as our movement is to rigid and slow




Two are creative, but Hwang definitely isn’t….

But all three are our only forward thinking and quality players in the final third….. where is the consistent attacking quality from the other 7 outfield players?

That is the question.

 

[North West Wanderer]

It is nuanced isn’t it….. just because you have three playing well, doesn’t mean they are being allowed to play to their potential because of the confines of the system. Quality will often still shine or take chances even if they are limited in number.

Ok, so our manager has openly said on multiple occasions that our players moved around too much and didn’t follow a structure…. That isn’t exactly a mindset that allows for creative and free thinking play is it?

Even in a structured team there will be moments where we attack and they are allowed to play to strengths as you cannot defend totally for 90 minutes.

But the majority of the tactics/strategy is safety first. That cannot be argued!!!

We look to contain and frustrate more than create and so many of our goals have been long passes for a fast lad to run onto or benefiting off a mistake in the final third. We have had very few and fleeting moments of actual quality in the final third as our movement is to rigid and slow




Two are creative, but Hwang definitely isn’t….

But all three are our only forward thinking and quality players in the final third….. where is the consistent attacking quality from the other 7 outfield players?

That is the question.

you’re taking things literally. even the most creative players still need some form of structure?!?

 

[wolfslair]

you’re taking things literally. even the most creative players still need some form of structure?!?

Yes, I agree. Hence why I said it is nuanced.

But he was saying they were moving too much…. I am sorry but a winger and forward who move too much…… stop it…..

They need to move to create space and openings for themselves and others, something we seem to lack doing far more often than not

 

[Jefe]

Of many bizarre comments made by GON since his arrival, the accusation that we lacked structure is among the oddest. We're less structured now than we were last season! At least defensively. Playing a system that everyone except the manager himself thinks is a back five, isn't the greatest example of structure. Is Toti on the left of a three, or a full-on left back? Is Ait-Nouri a wingback or a winger? Where is Bellegarde supposed to be? Is Hwang wide right or a striker? Do we even have a dedicated centre forward in this system? Who the Hell knows! This is "structure", apparently.

 

[NorthYorkshireWanderer]

he's an average manager I think, a sign of where we are as a club (mid table ish prem side) - I'm fine with how we're doing so far but lately it has been worrying seeing how our performances have gone backwards recently.

 

[North West Wanderer]

It is nuanced isn’t it….. just because you have three playing well, doesn’t mean they are being allowed to play to their potential because of the confines of the system. Quality will often still shine or take chances even if they are limited in number.

Ok, so our manager has openly said on multiple occasions that our players moved around too much and didn’t follow a structure…. That isn’t exactly a mindset that allows for creative and free thinking play is it?

Even in a structured team there will be moments where we attack and they are allowed to play to strengths as you cannot defend totally for 90 minutes.

But the majority of the tactics/strategy is safety first. That cannot be argued!!!

We look to contain and frustrate more than create and so many of our goals have been long passes for a fast lad to run onto or benefiting off a mistake in the final third. We have had very few and fleeting moments of actual quality in the final third as our movement is to rigid and slow




Two are creative, but Hwang definitely isn’t….

But all three are our only forward thinking and quality players in the final third….. where is the consistent attacking quality from the other 7 outfield players?

That is the question.

you’re not being balanced or nuanced and Hwang isn’t creative? define creative, last time i checked he’s top scorer!

 

[North West Wanderer]

Yes, I agree. Hence why I said it is nuanced.

But he was saying they were moving too much…. I am sorry but a winger and forward who move too much…… stop it…..

They need to move to create space and openings for themselves and others, something we seem to lack doing far more often than not

so why are we scoring more goals? he hasn’t said stop moving, you’re being literal and i think you know that.

 

[wolfslair]

you’re not being balanced or nuanced and Hwang isn’t creative? define creative, last time i checked he’s top scorer!

You know what a creative footballer is…

I explained that the system allows for moments, but the movement on the whole is poor as it js restricted in the set up….. we have moments, but they are moving less and less into space and creating options for the ball carrier each week.

Hwang is a finisher, I rate hwang, but to claim he is creative is a step too far!

 

[North West Wanderer]

You know what a creative footballer is…

I explained that the system allows for moments, but the movement on the whole is poor as it js restricted in the set up….. we have moments, but they are moving less and less into space and creating options for the ball carrier each week.

Hwang is a finisher, I rate hwang, but to claim he is creative is a step too far!

i clearly don’t. you’re off on one on here over the last week!!!! i’ll leave it there as it feels like it’s this never ending disagreement.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Did they? I looked back for a few odds and 3/1 seemed to be the price when the season started. I'm going to say a few people (like me) over-estimated Burnley, but you'd struggle to find many who thought we'd finish below Sheff U or Luton. Show me some evidence by all means.

Joint 7th favourite here at 7/2 - not exactly nailed on!

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I don't know anything about betting but plenty of pre-season reporting and punditry were all concerned as to whether we would be able to sustain our PL status. Well respected pundits summarised 'Averaging a goal a game over recent seasons' lowest scorers last season with 31 from 38 , no money for transfers so have to sell to buy, no new players coming in, the man who kept them up set to leave, club in turmoil etc'

They all expected Burnley to be doing better than they are because of easily they won the Championship whilst their predictions regarding Luton and Sheff Utd have been bang on.

After 17 games last season our current league position would have seen us 6 points above the relegation zone as opposed to our current 10. The bottom three last season, of which we were one, each had three or four more points than the current bunch. So the pundits and are right in that this season is a bit of an anomaly because the points return of the three promoted teams have been so poor, which means Forest are still five points above the relegation zone despite having one win in thirteen.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I don't know anything about betting but plenty of pre-season reporting and punditry were all concerned as to whether we would be able to sustain our PL status. Well respected pundits summarised 'Averaging a goal a game over recent seasons' lowest scorers last season with 31 from 38 , no money for transfers so have to sell to buy, no new players coming in, the man who kept them up set to leave, club in turmoil etc'

They all expected Burnley to be doing better than they are because of easily they won the Championship whilst their predictions regarding Luton and Sheff Utd have been bang on.

After 17 games last season our current league position would have seen us 6 points above the relegation zone as opposed to our current 10. The bottom three last season, of which we were one, each had three or four more points than the current bunch. So the pundits and are right in that this season is a bit of an anomaly because the points return of the three promoted teams have been so poor, which means Forest are still five points above the relegation zone despite having one win in thirteen.

Yes, I did have a look for some punditry and two out of the four here were tipping us as potentially 18th.

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It is really Burnley's abject form that has made everyone so comfortable, it looked like there was going to be a battle to avoid the one relegation spot not booked by Sheffield and Luton. To be honest although there's little fear of relegation, none of us would want to put our houses on finishing above 17th. That has much more to do with Kompany than O'Neil.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I really don’t know where I am with GON; sometimes I think we’ve got a quality, intelligent, young manager in charge… other times I feel that we’ve got Bruno Lage back, almost down to a tee.

I’m pretty relaxed about the season overall as the bottom 3 are so appalling so I’ll probably just carry on getting annoyed when we play terribly and getting excited when we play well but if I was Matt and Jeff I would have a succession plan ready to go just in case. Hopefully they see what the rest of the season has to offer in terms of progress and performances but keep in mind what happened when we didn’t sack Bruno at the end of the season if things don’t look like they’re going to take a turn for the better.

With that in mind I wouldn’t be selling anybody in January just because the manager doesn’t fancy them.

Think that sums up my opinion on him. I didn’t want him so he’s suprised me to an extent, though he’s got things wrong as well. Though it’s easier to say the latter after the event.

I do think he’s one of these managers who overthinks things a bit and he’s not one for in game management (you could say the latter about Nuno as well).

I think the next 6-8 games will be a barometer, he’s hit a sticky patch currently and we’ll see how good or bad he is as to how we react/perform.

 

[wolfslair]

i clearly don’t. you’re off on one on here over the last week!!!! i’ll leave it there as it feels like it’s this never ending disagreement.

Sorry mate…. Challenging week….

 

[North West Wanderer]

Sorry mate…. Challenging week….

no apology needed. i did try to pm you but wouldn’t let me. i admire your passion.

 

[wolfslair]

no apology needed. i did try to pm you but wouldn’t let me. i admire your passion.

Thanks for thinking of me mate! Means a lot!

 

[wolfslair]

Lots of positives from the weekends performance apparently…….

If he genuinely believes that……

Jesus wept……

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

My take on Gary O’Neil is that he will never be truly loved by Wolves fans during his time here.

I don’t feel he has the charisma to be a complete crowd pleaser. Personally I feel he’s doing better than I hoped, which is very commendable, but I’d be neither gutted or happy if he were to stay or leave as things stand.

Caveat - Clearly I’ve not moved on from Nuno, although I knew this already, as I’m actually jealous/ resentful of the Notts Forrest fans for the bond they’ll likely end up forming with our former Portuguese hero.

 

[Hot Fuss]

**** him off. Granted it’s not his fault Bentley would not get a game for most Sunday league teams. It’s not his fault semedo can’t defend and Kilmarnock runs like he is in treacle. It is his fault for setting them up so badly with no urgency, no ability to change it when this not working, and the players showing absolutely no desire to press and win a game. Everyone looks like they simply can’t be ***** for several weeks now.

Of all the melons on here, you are number 1. Congratulations.

 

[Bondi Wolf]

16th highest wage bill
11th in the league

What an excellent outcome in his first season in charge.

 

[brianm]

My take on Gary O’Neil is that he will never be truly
Caveat - Clearly I’ve not moved on from Nuno, although I knew this already, as I’m actually jealous/ resentful of the Notts Forrest fans for the bond they’ll likely end up forming with our former Portuguese hero.

Nuno won't last a year at forest imo. That's a brutally hard job with that squad and owner.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

As I say not a big fan of O'Neil, done OK but he needs to show a bit more for me to get the gig for next season....But if the finances don't improve or loosen going forward it won't matter who is in charge....the decline will continue...

I want a bit of change in January but my underlying issue seems to be , it's another cost cutting exercises.....Yes change is needed and would be good but if it's has to be done in alignment with cost cutting it won't benefit us at all in the long term....

I got it in the summer but won't get it going forward .....and if it continues general result won't improve at all....

Looks like your future enjoyment of Wolves is going to take a hit as GON will certainly be manager next season and Fosun certainly won't be splashing the cash any time soon.

 

[Norway Wolves]

16th highest wage bill
11th in the league

What an excellent outcome in his first season in charge.

He saw that the game plan wasn't going as expected as Chelsea had set up differently. It wasn't working and we were going to lose.

Then the RAN injury.

He recognized it - changed it - communicated it.

Brilliant coaching and management.

 

[SA Wolf]

As we know, RAN was told to feign an injury against Chelsea, so that GON could change tactics slightly, which included Toti staying closer to Palmer. Master tactical genius or cheating? I'm unsure, but it probably resulted in us getting the win, so I'll take it. But if this tactic becomes widespread in the game, I'd not be a fan. Games would last longer and become more-disjointed than they are even now.
Fair to say though, that GON had a better day than of late with the changes he spotted, his use of subs etc...., but he sent more notes on to the field than kids sent to Santa this Christmas. We had TC with his clipboard, now we have GON with his jotter (and not the one we sold to Liverpool ).

 

[brianm]

As we know, RAN was told to feign an injury against Chelsea, so that GON could change tactics slightly, which included Toti staying closer to Palmer. Master tactical genius or cheating? I'm unsure, but it probably resulted in us getting the win, so I'll take it. But if this tactic becomes widespread in the game, I'd not be a fan. Games would last longer and become more-disjointed than they are even now.
Fair to say though, that GON had a better day than of late with the changes he spotted, his use of subs etc...., but he sent more notes on to the field than kids sent to Santa this Christmas. We had TC with his clipboard, now we have GON with his jotter (and not the one we sold to Liverpool ).

Just about every club in the league do this to varying degrees. There have been many pieces written about it for a few years now.

It's cynical, but that's the culture of the game now.

 

[The House of Wolves]

I think it’s time we cut our losses and sack this chancer.

Mad mick would be an improvement

lol.

 

[The House of Wolves]

My take on Gary O’Neil is that he will never be truly loved by Wolves fans during his time here.

I wholeheartedly agree; and this is just sad to me.

We have a genuinely good man in charge of our club. He is young and enthusiastic, not a washed up dinosaur. He is an honest, principled fella who clearly has the full support of the lads in the dressing room. And despite all the **** takers, he clearly has the tactical nous to back it up as seen on that MNF episode.

On top of this we are joint 10th in the league, despite him not having a transfer window and being wrote off by almost everyone before he even started.

Why so many fans still haven’t taken to him is beyond me, it is just sad.

I just don’t know what our fans want anymore.

 

[QB Wolf]

As we know, RAN was told to feign an injury against Chelsea, so that GON could change tactics slightly, which included Toti staying closer to Palmer. Master tactical genius or cheating? I'm unsure, but it probably resulted in us getting the win, so I'll take it. But if this tactic becomes widespread in the game, I'd not be a fan. Games would last longer and become more-disjointed than they are even now.
Fair to say though, that GON had a better day than of late with the changes he spotted, his use of subs etc...., but he sent more notes on to the field than kids sent to Santa this Christmas. We had TC with his clipboard, now we have GON with his jotter (and not the one we sold to Liverpool ).

Are you turning this into a negative? Are you creating this label so you can use it against him when we lose next I wonder?

 

[SA Wolf]

Are you turning this into a negative? Are you creating this label so you can use it against him when we lose next I wonder?

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