Non Profit Community Football Club

[Mutchy]

Two scenarios seeing what people think Fosun main objective is and I can’t get straight answers?

Because you've picked two such extreme scenarios - that makes your question totally loaded towards the answers you want in order to confirm your own views.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

Okay, here's a question for everyone. You have two scenarios.

1. You can have a partner who is amazingly attractive, super sexy, absolutely worships the ground you walk on, treats you incredibly well, gives you your own space when needed, wants you to grow as a person, is intellectually stimulating and fulfils your every dream in the bedroom. They also have loads on money, and insist you don't have to work if you don't want to. You have an amazing house and can go on holiday wherever you want.

2. You can have a partner who is morbidly obese and super unattractive. They hate you and spend every minute of the day criticising you. You've forgotten what sex is. They don't want to work but they make you work in a job you hate and then insist you hand over your full wages to them. Sometimes they beat you up and post embarrassing photos of you on social media. You live in a run down council house in Basildon and never go on holiday.

Please choose which one you would prefer. Straight answers only please. There is no middle ground.

 

[1972 i began]

There are loyal fans who have season tickets and there loyal fans who don’t. There are loyal fans who don’t go to games but buy merchandise or even membership should we charge them more to subsidise season tickets? Perhaps you would prefer that whenever the club sells some merchandise they ask whether you are a season ticket holder or not. If not then you are charged an extra £5 or £10 to ensure that season tickets don’t rise.

To keep banging on that it’s only £1m. Perhaps Wolves have spoken to the gas and electricity companies for example and said could they knock £1m off the bill. As for people’s claims finishing 10th rather than 8th equated to a greater loss are correct but it’s irrelevant. People seem to forget that season ticket prices came out before the Norwich game where a victory would have guaranteed 8th.

Ya know wat a good idea would be....instead of fleecing the fans AGAIN...How about the players dip into their pockets and help pay for the privilege of playing on good pitches,good facilities,etc.And on top of obscene wages they have a bloody bonus.
The fans who cheer them on home and away.Though wind snow and hail.Have to pay more cuz the leccie and gas has gone up.I'm all right jack,springs to mind.

 

[johnnybetchas]

Errrrm I'd have go and have a look at how bad Basildon is first!

 

[wolf1975]

Ill try and help you out here, as your obviously frustrated at not getting the answers you want to hear
Your premise is based on a fantasy scenario
A non profit based successful club,they dont exist

The days of the Jack Haywards have long gone,and even with him we spent 19 years in the Championship ,and when eventually he achieved his dream he pulled the plug and sold up

Your not happy with Fosun,i understand that and thats fine,but your assumptions that they are just creaming off the top and not investing are wrong
They have invested and got us to where we are now,they may be tightening the purse strings but they are still investing

Will they sell up and make a profit? Quite possibly thats good business,but it wont happen anytime soon
Do we all like to see our team win games? Of course we do,but we also realise we are not a top 6 team yet and bad runs will happen
Are we happy to be a mid table team in the Prem? Mainly yes we are,again of course we would love to win something,but its been almost 40 years since we won anything of note, and longer since we achieved what we have in the elite league,so dont expect much better in the near future

We can all dream but realism needs to be in there somewhere

Thanks. It’s not about getting the answers I want to hear it’s about getting true answers.

I offered two extreme scenarios.

For me Fosun will take profit over trophies even if title is gift wrapped with profit.

 

[wolf1975]

Because you've picked two such extreme scenarios - that makes your question totally loaded towards the answers you want in order to confirm your own views.

Ok. Rephrase. I have basically asked would Fosun take profit over trophies.

Your answer is?

Ps. Can’t be money comes with trophies. Just which one would they take in your opinion?

 

[Mutchy]

Ok. Rephrase. I have basically asked would Fosun take profit over trophies.

Your answer is?

Ps. Can’t be money comes with trophies. Just which one would they take in your opinion?

Why can't it be that money comes with trophies? Surely in the real world it does? How can you get a reasoned answer if you insist on completely ignoring part of a scenario?
Surely a better discussion would be to look at where the common ground may be, and suggest ways of reaching it?

 

[wolf1975]

Why can't it be that money comes with trophies? Surely in the real world it does? How can you get a reasoned answer if you insist on completely ignoring part of a scenario?
Surely a better discussion would be to look at where the common ground may be, and suggest ways of reaching it?

Because they are asking me and others for more money…….. again. Then I review their net spend on transfers.

So got me thinking what is their main target.

I believe they see PL and Wolves as a money making opportunity first and second.

If success comes it comes. If not we will make money.

That’s not what I as a fan want.

I want my football team to win things.

Otherwise what’s the point of going?

The other point is a day out and entertainment. See PL footballers. A lot of “fans” do this now and the result is irrelevant .

Fosun are managing expectations really well.

Humour me mutchy.

The two extremes.

What are your answers?

 

[WickedWolfie]

Two scenarios seeing what people think Fosun main objective is and I can’t get straight answers? ‍

You offer options that are essentially black or white. I suspect most people believe that the answer is actually grey, the only question being how dark it is.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Errrrm I'd have go and have a look at how bad Basildon is first!

Bad.....

 

[Mutchy]

Because they are asking me and others for more money…….. again. Then I review their net spend on transfers.

So got me thinking what is their main target.

I believe they see PL and Wolves as a money making opportunity first and second.

If success comes it comes. If not we will make money.

That’s not what I as a fan want.

I want my football team to win things.

Otherwise what’s the point of going?

The other point is a day out and entertainment. See PL footballers. A lot of “fans” do this now and the result is irrelevant .

Fosun are managing expectations really well.

Humour me mutchy.

The two extremes.

What are your answers?

They're not extremes that I see as applying to me, but you obviously think they do to you, your own situation, and the decision you have to make.
To be honest it looks like you are trying to manipulate other posters in a position where they agree with your views, and if that is the case I think you are wanting affirmation for a decision not to renew.
Its your decision, and can only be your decision.

 

[wolf1975]

You offer options that are essentially black or white. I suspect most people believe that the answer is actually grey, the only question being how dark it is.

I go to Jeff Shi and Fosun tomorrow and offer the two scenarios.

In your opinion which one would they take?

 

[WickedWolfie]

I go to Jeff Shi and Fosun tomorrow and offer the two scenarios.

In your opinion which one would they take?

Once again you try to force acceptance of the wholly unrealistic. I'm not playing that game.

My answer is neither. In my view they (Shi/Fosun) want both football success and profits. They know, courtesy of FFP and past precedent, that just throwing money at it doesn't work and are trying something different.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

I go to Jeff Shi and Fosun tomorrow and offer the two scenarios.

In your opinion which one would they take?

They would probably say they aren’t mutually exclusive.

 

[wolf1975]

Once again you try to force acceptance of the wholly unrealistic. I'm not playing that game.

My answer is neither. In my view they (Shi/Fosun) want both football success and profits. They know, courtesy of FFP and past precedent, that just throwing money at it doesn't work and are trying something different.

So I go to Jeff Shi and Fosun and say no need to play next season.

Which option would you like?

Which do you think they would choose and what would you choose?

I have offered them profit and titles or bigger profit and a bigger brand.

Quite a simple question really.

Fans are a product in modern day football which is fine - but don't come with One Pack and raise ticket prices to get an extra 1 million.

 

[wolf1975]

They would probably say they aren’t mutually exclusive.

I'm not asking them

What would your 2 answers be?

People seem awfully shy to commit to these 2 answers.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I'm not asking them

What would your 2 answers be?

People seem awfully shy to commit to these 2 answers.

Basically you are demanding that people accept one of two utterly ridiculous propositions. Most people understand that they are both ridiculous and won't play and you don't like it.

@Mutchy was spot on.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Does the first one involve some magic beans?

Hope these beans are the low-salt ones.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Straight answers only please

Ooh, bit homophobic, naughty naughty

 

[wolf1975]

Basically you are demanding that people accept one of two utterly ridiculous propositions. Most people understand that they are both ridiculous and won't play and you don't like it.

@Mutchy was spot on.

No. People won't admit ot contemplate Fosun are more interested in profit than trophies.

Not saying they don't want both. They will sell that dream to keep "global fans" interested and keep revenue ticking over.

How much has your season ticket gone up by? Has the last 2 years justified that? Hate to say it but go and compare Villa tickets and other PL teams.

 

[Supadavewolf]

 

[Supadavewolf]

The above is for 22/23

 

[WickedWolfie]

Ooh, bit homophobic, naughty naughty

Methinks that you aren't taking this thread seriously. I don't wonder why....

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

View attachment 28227

So we are mid to low table in pricing and guess where we are in league? Shocker

 

[wolf1975]

View attachment 28227

And which team has had 3 increases in 4 years? Actually thought it was 4 but might be wrong.

 

[WickedWolfie]

And which team has had 3 increases in 4 years? Actually thought it was 4 but might be wrong.

There were no fans in at all for all but one match of the season before last.

 

[wolf1975]

So we are mid to low table in pricing and guess where we are in league? Shocker

So if we had the most expensive tickets we would move up the table?

Are there not more important factors that drive league position

For starters investing in a proper size squad

 

[wolf1975]

There were no fans in at all for all but one match of the season before last.

Of course.

So it was 4/4 where tickets were available.

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

In line with everything? Really? Is the “product” I got in 2018/19 better than the “product” I got in 21/22?? That I’m paying 30% more for???

This racing circuit you go to, where is it?

On the former you decide. It's not me who can tell you.
England.

 

[bod101]

And which team has had 3 increases in 4 years? Actually thought it was 4 but might be wrong.

To put us in line with pretty much everyone else. I really do see you any of your arguments getting anywhere

 

[WickedWolfie]

So if we had the most expensive tickets we would move up the table?

Are there not more important factors that drive league position

For starters investing in a proper size squad

Ah, Mickesque never mind the quality feel the width.....

What is "a proper size squad" and how do you offer opportunities to promising youngsters if you pack the first team squad?

 

[theweave]

Possibly. Your answer?

Maybe if you offered some scenarios that are actually possible people would choose

 

[theweave]

Because they are asking me and others for more money…….. again. Then I review their net spend on transfers.

So got me thinking what is their main target.

I believe they see PL and Wolves as a money making opportunity first and second.

If success comes it comes. If not we will make money.

That’s not what I as a fan want.

I want my football team to win things.

Otherwise what’s the point of going?

The other point is a day out and entertainment. See PL footballers. A lot of “fans” do this now and the result is irrelevant .

Fosun are managing expectations really well.

Humour me mutchy.

The two extremes.

What are your answers?

When you say you review their net transfer spend, is this just the last couple of windows or the whole time they've been in charge. If it's the latter I believe it's around 200 million isn't it?

 

[wolf1975]

Ah, Mickesque never mind the quality feel the width.....

What is "a proper size squad" and how do you offer opportunities to promising youngsters if you pack the first team squad?

Jeff narrative again.

Pathway to the first team.

How we doing with that and how many are ready?

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Ok so according to you we are overpriced,poorly run,not successful and being asset stripped by the owners
I think you have answered your own question about renewing lol

 

[WickedWolfie]

Ok so according to you we are overpriced,poorly run,not successful and being asset stripped by the owners
I think you have answered your own question about renewing lol

What l found interesting about my own renewal, which was never in doubt, was that despite all the past stuff from the club about reusing season ticket cards the email clearly stated that a new one would be sent. That seems to be an unnecessary expense to me.

 

[jrpb-3]

In terms of putting profits ahead of trophies.

1. Revenues/Profits will increase if trophies are won or if the team is doing well.

2. Yes the Fosun have said for now they can't/will not spend money on a scale to directly compete financially with the top 6. As they see long term financial stability as the best way forward over the more risky approach of spending big now for short term success, which may fail and lead to a boom/bust cycle, so in that sense yes they are putting financial stability(profit) ahead of trophies (though its wrong to say profit is being creamed off as it remains in the club and available to spend at some point in the future, i.e. Fosun are not taking money out of the club). That doesn't mean they don't want trophies or that can't be achieved with their approach. The alternative may increase the odds of success in the short term, but also increases the odds of relegation threat if they don't come off or can't be sustained.

3. In terms of season ticket prices etc. We are now on a par with other clubs of similar position, so in that sense they can be justified to some extent. Although other alternative approaches could have been made as ticket sales as overall percentage of income is now smaller though not insignificant than in the past, and if fans are being asked to pay more then its reasonable to expect that that money will be spent on the team or on improvements to the ground, so the fans get a return on that increase. Money has been spent on players, but maybe not all of it as well as it could have been.

Now that prices are on a par with others and we are in the times we are in with most facing financial pressures and cost of living increases across the board then what happens going forward will maybe tell us more about Fosuns intentions, i.e. prices have probably now been pushed as far as they can be without seeing bigger improvements to team performance and ground facilities etc. If they continue to rise without other improvements then you may have a case.

 

[wolf1975]

Ok so according to you we are overpriced,poorly run,not successful and being asset stripped by the owners
I think you have answered your own question about renewing lol

How has this got to this!

The options were one or two.

But nobody wants to say what Fosun would choose.

I’m pretty sure it’s profit over trophies.

That’s why I’m debating what to do

 

[wolf1975]

In terms of putting profits ahead of trophies.

1. Revenues/Profits will increase if trophies are won or if the team is doing well.

2. Yes the Fosun have said for now they can't/will not spend money on a scale to directly compete financially with the top 6. As they see long term financial stability as the best way forward over the more risky approach of spending big now for short term success, which may fail and lead to a boom/bust cycle, so in that sense yes they are putting financial stability(profit) ahead of trophies (though its wrong to say profit is being creamed off as it remains in the club and available to spend at some point in the future, i.e. Fosun are not taking money out of the club). That doesn't mean they don't want trophies or that can't be achieved with their approach. The alternative may increase the odds of success in the short term, but also increases the odds of relegation threat if they don't come off or can't be sustained.

3. In terms of season ticket prices etc. We are now on a par with other clubs of similar position, so in that sense they can be justified to some extent. Although other alternative approaches could have been made as ticket sales as overall percentage of income is now smaller though not insignificant than in the past, and if fans are being asked to pay more then its reasonable to expect that that money will be spent on the team or on improvements to the ground, so the fans get a return on that increase. Money has been spent on players, but maybe not all of it as well as it could have been.

Now that prices are on a par with others and we are in the times we are in with most facing financial pressures and cost of living increases across the board then what happens going forward will maybe tell us more about Fosuns intentions, i.e. prices have probably now been pushed as far as they can be without seeing bigger improvements to team performance and ground facilities etc. If they continue to rise without other improvements then you may have a case.

Not necessarily. The Wolves brand could earn more without the club being in the top 6.

We buy players with marketing appeal.

Hence the 2 options.

What option do you think fans and Fosun would choose?

Not sure why people can’t say!

 

[Mutchy]

How has this got to this!

The options were one or two.

But nobody wants to say what Fosun would choose.

I’m pretty sure it’s profit over trophies.

That’s why I’m debating what to do

If thats your take, you already have your own answer.
But you can't impose your own view or hypothetical question onto others and automatically expect them to answer in the same terms.