Chinese owners - Russian fall out

[VancouverWolf]

True, waving Ukrainian flags achieves nothing. But it does show some solidarity. So why not just do it?

Unless you are Jeff as I've sometimes suspected, given your unwavering support, and the CCP have got your family under the threat of 're-education'?

P.S. Xi Jinping, I joke, obviously.

Unwavering? No way. I give nobody a blank cheque but I recognize and deeply appreciate the good that Fosun have done.
Unlike some, I don’t do fickle…….actually have a hard time understanding it.

That said, imo, the Chinese government is more evil than Putin and far, far more dangerous to the best ideals of humanity.
I didn’t watch the 2008 Chinese olympics, or this last one , or Sochi and won’t watch Quatar World Cup.
I can’t compromise on human rights.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Discussion isn’t banned at all, it’s freely available in the politics section for anyone who makes that little bit of effort to post there.

It’s all tied in.
China doesn’t want to show the PL this weekend and FIFA kicked Russia out of the World Cup…..and UEFA changed the cup final venue.
So what may or may not be shown from Molineux on Chinese tv is directly tied to our football interests.
In these troubling times, the fact that China will not condemn Russia is very relevant to Wolves fans and others as well, of course.

 

[Mutchy]

It’s all tied in.
China doesn’t want to show the PL this weekend and FIFA kicked Russia out of the World Cup…..and UEFA changed the cup final venue.
So what may or may not be shown from Molineux on Chinese tv is directly tied to our football interests.
In these troubling times, the fact that China will not condemn Russia is very relevant to Wolves fans and others as well, of course.

And if the discussion stays on potential effects for Wolves or football it’s fine here. If it turns to the war in general, Putin etc, it belongs in the politics forum. It’s really not that complicated.

 

[clivewolves]

Football, just like many other industries, reacts to the news cycle. If China becomes an issue in the current crisis, or another one, and becomes the attention of 24/7 rolling news then football might be forced to react. China and Russia are different countries with differing relationships with Europe and the news cycle will reflect that, though I won't go into that as this is a football thread and not a political one.

We've already seen how football reacts when issues dominate the news. When the news gives it a passing interest, football doesn't get involved anywhere near to the same extent, and there have been plenty of examples. Ozil raised concerns with the Uighurs and Arsenal hung him out to dry ( and yes someone will mention Erdogan, and that's another issue). The rest of football got on as though nothing happened. A journalist was even told that one Premier League club had even informed its players no to mention the Uighurs at all on social media. Leeds went to play in Myanmar as an alleged genocide was happening and got a bit of criticism for a couple of days, but they got by. Zouma probably got more criticism for kicking a cat. I don't remember football getting involved at all with the Hong Kong protests, but maybe it did and I missed it. The Premier League probably saw the reaction to the NBA and thought better of it. I believe Celtic fans showed support for Palestine by flying some flags and the club got fined for it.

So could China be a problem for Wolves in the future? Maybe. Depends on the news cycle.

 

[Andy]

Discussion isn’t banned at all, it’s freely available in the politics section for anyone who makes that little bit of effort to post there.

But as has been said, politics and football are clearly connected here. Are we supposed to stop the flow of a discussion and say "Pssst meet me over there so we can talk about this related point which is arbitrarily forbidden in this part of the forum database"?

Who are we protecting?

Madness.

 

[VancouverWolf]

And if the discussion stays on potential effects for Wolves or football it’s fine here. If it turns to the war in general, Putin etc, it belongs in the politics forum. It’s really not that complicated.

Ok. Fair enough.

 

[Minimalist]

My one lingering frustration would be that they've left the ground exactly as it was when they arrived... 'all' I wanted from them was PL consolidation (ticked, and then some) and a new Steve Bull stand to make Molineux a class but traditional ground, up with the best in the land (Hillsborough, Villa Park, Anfield etc. i.e. the good ones to visit because they're big and proper).

I have wondered if Chelsea fans might consider the lack of a new stadium to be a blot on what the Russian has done for them...

We all , always, want more..

 

[lostwolf]

Unwavering? No way. I give nobody a blank cheque but I recognize and deeply appreciate the good that Fosun have done.
Unlike some, I don’t do fickle…….actually have a hard time understanding it.

That said, imo, the Chinese government is more evil than Putin and far, far more dangerous to the best ideals of humanity.
I didn’t watch the 2008 Chinese olympics, or this last one , or Sochi and won’t watch Quatar World Cup.
I can’t compromise on human rights.

I stand corrected

 

[we love jez moxey]

I see all the England players in the next few days are going to announce whether they're going to Quatar or not.

I ****ing hope kilman does... I got 16/1 on it!!!

 

[Wonder Boyo]

Waving Ukrainian flags makes no difference to Putin.
I doubt he even knows what’s going on outside of the war.

Waving Ukrainian flags may make no difference to Putin, but it'll make a difference to the Ukrainian people who will see their flag in stadiums and on football shirts all over the world. It may not stop the war but it will show they are not being forgotten by the world. I know it has had a huge impact on one of the Ukrainian lads I teach. It's only a small act of defiance and support that may not be saving lives, but for many of us who feel helpless, it feels like all we can do at the moment.

 

[Wolf316]

Waving Ukrainian flags may make no difference to Putin, but it'll make a difference to the Ukrainian people who will see their flag in stadiums and on football shirts all over the world. It may not stop the war but it will show they are not being forgotten by the world. I know it has had a huge impact on one of the Ukrainian lads I teach. It's only a small act of defiance and support that may not be saving lives, but for many of us who feel helpless, it feels like all we can do at the moment.

It will also make a big difference to one of our own.

 

[Rhoswolf]

It will also make a big difference to one of our own.

Exactly!

 

[BlahBlah]

It’s all tied in.
China doesn’t want to show the PL this weekend and FIFA kicked Russia out of the World Cup…..and UEFA changed the cup final venue.
So what may or may not be shown from Molineux on Chinese tv is directly tied to our football interests.
In these troubling times, the fact that China will not condemn Russia is very relevant to Wolves fans and others as well, of course.

China won't condemn Russia because it would impact on their future plans for Taiwan, if they have any, and is the opposite to how China are treating Hong Kong regarding self-determination, though with far more restraint that Putin has shown for human life. They don't want to broadcast any TV that shows protest or social unrest in case it bites them on the ****.
Though the Chinese abstentions on their latest UN and NATO votes are a sign that they are not happy with Russia, which is a bit of a shock because it's a statement that goes against their recent agreement. As are the banking sanctions. Maybe they think Russia have blown the gaffe and shown what can happen in the worst circumstances?
It still doesn't mean that they won't hand Russia a load of money through the back door....it does China good to keep their opponent's minds and armies occupied.

India are a strange case, they have China on the Nepalese and Tibetan border and have complained about a potential invasion. For them not to condemn Putin is a sign of weakness when the same may happen to them.

 

[Moira Stewart]

And if the discussion stays on potential effects for Wolves or football it’s fine here. If it turns to the war in general, Putin etc, it belongs in the politics forum. It’s really not that complicated.

I'm sorry but that's absolute *******s. The impact on Wolves is indeed a microcosm of what goes on in the wider world. Sport and Wolves are a part of society in general, if a debate organically moves into the debate on wider issues what's the issue? This is the most important event that has happened in the Western hemisphere in potentially the last 50 years people are naturally going to debate the wider implications beyond Wolves.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Waving Ukrainian flags may make no difference to Putin, but it'll make a difference to the Ukrainian people who will see their flag in stadiums and on football shirts all over the world. It may not stop the war but it will show they are not being forgotten by the world. I know it has had a huge impact on one of the Ukrainian lads I teach. It's only a small act of defiance and support that may not be saving lives, but for many of us who feel helpless, it feels like all we can do at the moment.

Yes of course. I’m just a bit sickened at this invasion and am feeling frustrated that Putin will get away with it again.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Anyone taking Ukraine flags tomorrow??

I don’t own one, but if they’re selling them outside the ground I’ll buy one.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

If they sell, they sell. Thanks for the memories, hope the next one can take us further. But otherwise no point dwelling on this until the bridge needs to be crossed.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

I'm sorry but that's absolute *******s. The impact on Wolves is indeed a microcosm of what goes on in the wider Wolves. Sport and Wolves are a part of society in general, if a debate organically moves into the debate on wider issues what's the issue? This is the most important event that has happened in the Western hemisphere in potentially the last 50 years people are naturally going to debate the wider implications beyond Wolves.

Well said.

 

[Jay Jay de Wolf]

If we show nothing at all pre-game I'd be disgusted. Especially as we have a player in our ranks who has Ukrainian parentage and I would imagine like most major cities have a decent population of Ukrainian people who call the Midlands home.

They wore “no to war” T shirts.
Would be nice if they could specifically state “we stand with Ukraine”

We all need to show our support for Ukraine and for me that includes the club, and what's happening over there is far more important than football, but to judge them before knowing what they are going to do is crazy.Let's just wait and see tomorrow

Waving Ukrainian flags may make no difference to Putin, but it'll make a difference to the Ukrainian people who will see their flag in stadiums and on football shirts all over the world. It may not stop the war but it will show they are not being forgotten by the world. I know it has had a huge impact on one of the Ukrainian lads I teach. It's only a small act of defiance and support that may not be saving lives, but for many of us who feel helpless, it feels like all we can do at the moment.

It will also make a big difference to one of our own.

Yes exactly we must show support for Ukraine tomorrow at Molineux for one of our own. Ironically I have a Ukrainian friend called Maximilian too who lives in Kharkiv the most bombed city so far in Ukraine. He wants peace and freedom there but atm he is in an underground shelter in fear and struggling to get food and water for his family. We don't know how lucky we are in this country.
@sc91 like the Polish community there is a strong Ukrainian church and community not far from Molinuex in Merridale.
So lets hope the Wolves owners and fans can show tomorrow the Ukrainian heroic folk that they have our full support thoughts and prayers for them all.please.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Ok, this is the football section but let’s face it, China agrees with what Russsia is doing.

How China Embraces Russian Propaganda and Its Version of the War (Published 2022)

In much of the world, Russia is losing the information war over Ukraine. In China, though, it’s winning big.

www.nytimes.com

 

[VancouverWolf]

Yes exactly we must show support for Ukraine tomorrow at Molineux. for one of our own. Ironically I have a Ukrainian friend called Maximilian too who lives in Kharkiv the most bombed city so far in Ukraine. He wants peace and freedom there but atm he is in an underground shelter in fear and struggling to get food and water for his family. We don't know how lucky we are in this country.
@sc91 like the Polish community there is a strong Ukrainian church and community not from Molinuex in Merridale.
So lets hope the Wolves owners and fans can show tomorrow the Ukrainian heroic folk that they have our full support thoughts and prayers for them all.please.

Yes…
and it would be great if football fans from all clubs wore their shirt, carried Ukrainian flags and blocked access to the Chinese embassy.

 

[wwbug]

I think we are looking for problems where there are none.
China wants global football , and they cant just play Russia, Belarus and North Korea.....
As for politics Russia sends weapons to India in its fight against China on its borderlands. Its not simple.

 

[Wolf316]

Ok, this is the football section but let’s face it, China agrees with what Russsia is doing.

How China Embraces Russian Propaganda and Its Version of the War (Published 2022)

In much of the world, Russia is losing the information war over Ukraine. In China, though, it’s winning big.

www.nytimes.com

Yep and they’ll be doing exactly the same in Taiwan in a couple of years time.

 

[Ogerp]

I'm sorry but that's absolute *******s. The impact on Wolves is indeed a microcosm of what goes on in the wider Wolves. Sport and Wolves are a part of society in general, if a debate organically moves into the debate on wider issues what's the issue? This is the most important event that has happened in the Western hemisphere in potentially the last 50 years people are naturally going to debate the wider implications beyond Wolves.

Very true, excellent post.

 

[Mugwump]

They’d better bloody not.

We already showed support to Ukraine with the No to War shirts. Fosun arent going to block players from using freedom of speech.

 

[Mugwump]

I'm sorry but that's absolute *******s. The impact on Wolves is indeed a microcosm of what goes on in the wider world. Sport and Wolves are a part of society in general, if a debate organically moves into the debate on wider issues what's the issue? This is the most important event that has happened in the Western hemisphere in potentially the last 50 years people are naturally going to debate the wider implications beyond Wolves.

I dont really get what your issue is. Mutchy isnt shutting down the discussion. If its football related, even if its loosley related, use this thread. If people want to discuss whats going on with this abhorrent attack on the Ukraine specifically, then surely its better to take it to the appropriate place. Some people might want a place where they can just talk about football and get away from the horrors of the world for a while.

 

[top fox wolf]

Every fan should tie a yellow band around an arm. That's my opinion.

I will already have mine on my coat for tomorrow and one on my reffs kit for my morning game. God bless Ukraine and its brave people .

 

[bod101]

Why do you keep saying that? Football, and sport in general, have never been more intertwined with politics as they are right now. It's not the best time to ban discussion on it surely?

Keep it related to he football side of things, ie don't go off on a political rant which is invariably what happens if it isn't keep football related. There is a political forum if you wish to go off and debate the politics.

 

[Monketron]

The biggest issue for Wolves will be if China invaded Taiwan in the future, or if something big happened over the South China Sea issue that is slowly simmering away. Could easily see people like Guo getting caught up in sanctions by the US/EU if that were to happen, although it's important to know Fosun are not state owned, even partially. Not sure if that would make a difference or not.

Lots of if's and maybes I know but it's a possibility that would ultimately lead to Wolves probably getting sold just like Chelsea are.

 

[Stafford]

I'm not expecting Fosun to condem Russia, due to political links. Fosun also have billions in investment in Russia.

But if wolves as a club can't openly condem Russia due to our owners, then I think I may be done with Fosun, and I've been a huge fan.

 

[Moira Stewart]

I dont really get what your issue is. Mutchy isnt shutting down the discussion. If its football related, even if its loosley related, use this thread. If people want to discuss whats going on with this abhorrent attack on the Ukraine specifically, then surely its better to take it to the appropriate place. Some people might want a place where they can just talk about football and get away from the horrors of the world for a while.

My issue is that like it or not football and politics in this context are hugely intertwined and by the nature of this thread it's about both football and politics. There is a legitimate debate to be had and it includes and goes well beyond the issues of our club.

Of course many may want to get away from the horrors of the world for a while but think about the poor people of Ukraine who have no real getaway from 'the horrors of the world' whereas you can simply choose not to read this thread if you wish.

 

[Mugwump]

My issue is that like it or not football and politics in this context are hugely intertwined and by the nature of this thread it's about both football and politics. There is a legitimate debate to be had and it includes and goes well beyond the issues of our club.

Of course many may want to get away from the horrors of the world for a while but think about the poor people of Ukraine who have no real getaway from 'the horrors of the world' whereas you can simply choose not to read this thread if you wish.

Or you can simply keep football related stuff on here, and take the deeper discussion to a more political thread. Works both ways. The choice is still there. If it directly relates to the football side of things i dont see a problem with this thread, as has already been said by mods.

 

[Mugwump]

But as has been said, politics and football are clearly connected here. Are we supposed to stop the flow of a discussion and say "Pssst meet me over there so we can talk about this related point which is arbitrarily forbidden in this part of the forum database"?

Who are we protecting?

Madness.

Buts its already been said if the football and politics are intertwined then this thread is fine. If its just about the conflict in the Ukraine there is a more suitable thread for it.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I'm not expecting Fosun to condem Russia, due to political links. Fosun also have billions in investment in Russia.

But if wolves as a club can't openly condem Russia due to our owners, then I think I may be done with Fosun, and I've been a huge fan.

I agree. It would be a red line for me too.

 

[Moira Stewart]

Or you can simply keep football related stuff on here, and take the deeper discussion to a more political thread. Works both ways. The choice is still there. If it directly relates to the football side of things i dont see a problem with this thread, as has already been said by mods.

The political thread is visited by how many people? I didn't even know it existed. This is one of the biggest issues our country and possibly the world has faced in decades, there may be people who do not ordinarily get involved or interested in politics who may actually learn something from this thread whereas if it's buried in a sub forum would never. It's a legitimate debate that organically happened and was referred to in the OP. I think it's important as an issue for Wolves and on the wider context it should stay on the main board and I thought it was slightly insulting that Mutchy decided it was black and white to get involved in a good healthy debate that I can't see anyone would be offended by staying on the main MM forum?

 

[VancouverWolf]

We are getting ahead of ourselves, ( myself included).
This invasion has not reached Fosun or Wolves and most likely won’t.

So, worry about crossing the street safely as it’s probably your biggest threat for the near future.

 

[Eastern Wolf]

Lets hope China doesnt get dragged into the war. If forced to takes sides it will probably be with Russia due to political alleagence and idiolygy but they are pragmatic people and know the consequences of escalation. They surely wont want to have sanctions enforced on them too and undo their economic miracle of the past 40 years. Right now they are probably the only country that can stop the war as they have a lot of leverage over Russia. The west should approach China for help but that would seem weak. But then again, who really knows? Politics over people's lives is so tragic.
Where does it leave Wolves? As our aim is self sufficiency, perhaps we already are, this may prove to save us if China gets involved in a negative way. By not relying on Fosun for survival in the PL may be the best way forward for our club after all.
By luck or by design, this strategy by the club may just ensure not only our survival but also our continued success. It makes selling the club easier too if it should come to it.

 

[Urko]

What actual links do FOSUN have to the CCP ? I haven’t see any.

In fact the opposite

China Billionaire Freed From Police Custody

Fosun founder Guo Guangchang turns up at the company's annual meeting following his arrest in mysterious circumstances last week.

news.sky.com

So if China did invade Taiwan, can’t see why an independent listed company on the Hong Kong stock market would be sanctioned ?

 

[Mutchy]

The political thread is visited by how many people? I didn't even know it existed. This is one of the biggest issues our country and possibly the world has faced in decades, there may be people who do not ordinarily get involved or interested in politics who may actually learn something from this thread whereas if it's buried in a sub forum would never. It's a legitimate debate that organically happened and was referred to in the OP. I think it's important as an issue for Wolves and on the wider context it should stay on the main board and I thought it was slightly insulting that Mutchy decided it was black and white to get involved in a good healthy debate that I can't see anyone would be offended by staying on the main MM forum?

We've had a consistent stance about political discussion on here, whether it be covid related, or now the war in Ukraine. There is an area provided for those discussions. Its up to you whether you are bothered enough about a subject to make use of it.

 

[Wolf316]

We already showed support to Ukraine with the No to War shirts. Fosun arent going to block players from using freedom of speech.

There’s a difference between saying No to War and showing actual support to Ukraine.