Fosun out?

[Sussex Wolf]

Everton are bigger club than Wolves.

I don’t think so. The only real difference is their extended stay in the top flight compared to us, and what that’s done to their spending power. Prior to that, and since our promotion, we’ve been comparable. Go back further, and we were a significantly bigger club.

 

[Timberwolf]

I have an Albion supporting colleague at work, we have a bit of banter and such, I was telling him last week about all the stuff on here about the transfer window and the kind of things that were being said, he couldn't believe it at first but it soon turned to hilarious scorn and derision, in his words, 'That's why everyone hates the Dingles' - it just confirmed to him that Wolves fans are a bunch of entitled, adolescent, whinging moaners which is what him and his mates have always believed.

I'm going to show him this thread tomorrow.


FOSUN out my Aries!

I would’ve smacked him in the mouth…but then I wouldn’t have opened up the opportunity for the derision in the first place.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Really need to put an end to that myth. He, the players, and the entire set up is down to the board. What he doesn't have is a benefactor prepared to throw money at transfers.

Honestly, you'd think one look around us would show that teams such as ourselves, brighton and southampton are doing it right.

Everton are a right mess, west ham are either near the top or near the bottom, with mixed success over transfers and dodgy owners, villa have thrown money mostly at players without so much resale value and look awful...

Meanwhile we're one of the 3 or so teams run with sustainable strategies. I said earlier that it's not perfect but southampton have been murdered in some games while brighton fans have had a real go at their team this season.

Truth is that fans are almost never happy.

Great post. Especially the last paragraph

 

[Ned Stark]

I would’ve smacked him in the mouth…but then I wouldn’t have opened up the opportunity for the derision in the first place.

lol ironically enough I got into trouble for saying something like that on another thread, consistency is over-rated anyway

 

[sillytuna]

Good post!
Please repost this on the start of the next transfer window.

Not if we screw up midfield!

 

[Timberwolf]

lol ironically enough I got into trouble for saying something like that on another thread, consistency is over-rated anyway

I probably wouldn’t have smacked him in the mouth but I definitely would have stared at him rather sternly…!

 

[Deleted member (smith)]

I don’t think so. The only real difference is their extended stay in the top flight compared to us, and what that’s done to their spending power. Prior to that, and since our promotion, we’ve been comparable. Go back further, and we were a significantly bigger club.

in business revenue is often the most important criterion for determining which is the bigger business. It possible also to look at assets and payroll…history can be subjective so let’s say now. Everton s revenue is 7th in UK…smaller than the big six but at least 30% higher than Wolves. It also has more assets and a bigger payroll.

Their extended stay in the top flight, their history , btheir spending power etc….very hard to find a coherent argument that Wolves are a bigger club than Everton….if you asked neutrals who outside the big six is the biggest club I think a large majority would say Everton

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Well worth a read.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

in business revenue is often the most important criterion for determining which is the bigger business. It possible also to look at assets and payroll…history can be subjective so let’s say now. Everton s revenue is 7th in UK…smaller than the big six but at least 30% higher than Wolves. It also has more assets and a bigger payroll.

Their extended stay in the top flight, their history , btheir spending power etc….very hard to find a coherent argument that Wolves are a bigger club than Everton….if you asked neutrals who outside the big six is the biggest club I think a large majority would say Everton

If you ask neutrals, then they will suffer from recency bias - ie Everton’s persistence in the top flight and their greater profile as a result, will bias their opinion. If you use only revenue then, as I said in my post, you are going to be strongly biased by the extended time in the PL. Throughout the last 40 years since Wolves were last an established top flight team, there have been clubs who have had their moments of glory, and would for that period, have been “big” clubs. When I was a kid, you couldn’t deny Forest were a “big” club - winning the European Cup, cups, leagues etc. Yet go back 10 years earlier, and they were a small provincial club, and with Clough’s departure, they slid back into obscurity. Blackburn battled Utd for the PL title back in Fergie’s early period, yet look at them now. As an illustration of the recency bias in this, look at the 2020 v 2021 global football brand rankings:-

Football 50 2023 | Brand Value Ranking League Table | Brandirectory

The annual report on the most valuable and strongest football brands

brandirectory.com

So are Everton currently a bigger club than Wolves? Yes, by any objective measure. But, should we qualify for Europe, especially the CL, then in the year that follows, its likely we would overtake them in brand value, and if we were to stay upper mid table in the PL consistently for a decade, then it’s likely we would on financial measures too if they continue to flail around spending money without achieving much of value. Which is why I said what I said.

 

[Ned Stark]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Well worth a read.

He got most of that from here I reckon

 

[Cousins78]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Well worth a read.

I wouldn't sell Kilman for 35 mill no way!

 

[WWFC4EVA]

I wouldn't sell Kilman!

Sorted that for you pal.

 

[Cousins78]

Sorted that for you pal.

Just find the valuations of our players by the media laughable tbh

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Just find the valuations of our players by the media laughable tbh

Agreed mate.
Harry Maguire £80m is all I would add!

 

[VancouverWolf]

He got most of that from here I reckon

Hahahaha…..fleetingly crossed my mind as well. However, it’s a good read even if you get the feeling that Bruno and the author are best buddies.

 

[sillytuna]

A good read that and I certainly think Fosun have a big summer ahead. Youngsters can only get you so far and it looks like we're losing a few first teamers - Traore (almost certainly), Moutinho, Saiss, Trincao (maybe) and possibly Neves. There are also doubts over Raul for fitness reasons, while Boly must be on his way and Marcal surely won't be signing.

It's the first time since our promotion that we need to revamp core parts of the team. Defensively we'll be in a good place but every other position feels up for grabs. Only Neto and Podence really stand out of the rest (assuming neves left, which I hope he doesn't!).

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

He got most of that from here I reckon

A neutral journalist agreeing with the points you don't like may say a lot...

 

[Mugwump]

Kilman is 60 or 70 million minimum with the increased value of him being a left footed English center half on top of him being an excellent player.

 

[Ned Stark]

A neutral journalist agreeing with the points you don't like may say a lot...

Its all based on assumption, speculation and opinion just the same as on here, he hasn’t spoken to anyone at the club so what kind of position is he in to say anything meaningful?

 

[Rangiora Wolf]

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Well worth a read.

Makes the purchase of fabio even more bizarre. Shi must've had a couple before signing that one off

 

[Vietnam Wolf]

To be fair, this summer would seem the perfect time for them to sell.

Club is worth 10x what they purchased it for and the next 2-3 years will require major investment (squad, stadium) so its pretty much diminishing returns for them from here.

I would prefer they stayed, replaced Shi with someone competent and invested in a DOF.

Excellent post - I'd prefer they stayed and did what you said, but the likelihood of both of those things happening is very low especially as their stated ambition is simply to be a player trading organisation, and I'm not convinced any Shi replacememnt would be any different [all the major steering decisions come from Shanghai I'd have thought?]..

If Sellars could be replaced with someone with considerably more credibility who could advise Fosun this would be a giant step in the right direction. I get the impression Wild and Sellars are just "yes men" who offer no strong advice or push-back .... I only make this statement on the way they came across in the round table discussions last summer.

But, there again, perhaps this is what Dalrymple and Thelwell were doing and we saw what happened to them ?

 

[Rugrats]

Would you prefer we follow the Everton model? A club of a similar size to us but who have spent longer in the PL so have greater FFP latitude to spend. They have blown half a billion without achieving anything and struggling to stay in the league? Or how about Newcastle with even richer owners and who consider it an achievement if they stay up this season. Or how about Spurs. One of the so called big six with one of the best strike partnerships in the league who couldn’t score against us, and who we battered yesterday?

Just going round in circles here - we are doing well now, that's indisputable but the point is again, is that we are very thin on the ground, two key injuries, say Jimenez and Semedo would be my greatest fears, and then what? If you employ the right people the speculation aspect reduces else how do the bigger clubs get bigger ? We need depth, we need competition for places, right now the team picks itself which isn't healthy imo. We can now match them financially so we now need to match them on ambition.

 

[Ercall Wolves]

A good read that and I certainly think Fosun have a big summer ahead. Youngsters can only get you so far and it looks like we're losing a few first teamers - Traore (almost certainly), Moutinho, Saiss, Trincao (maybe) and possibly Neves. There are also doubts over Raul for fitness reasons, while Boly must be on his way and Marcal surely won't be signing.

It's the first time since our promotion that we need to revamp core parts of the team. Defensively we'll be in a good place but every other position feels up for grabs. Only Neto and Podence really stand out of the rest (assuming neves left, which I hope he doesn't!).

Why do a lot people believe Saiss will be leaving in the summer, have I missed something, when does his current contract run out

 

[Guzeppi]

New Poll:

Which ages better:

[] Milk
[] This thread's title.

 

[The Runner]

Why do a lot people believe Saiss will be leaving in the summer, have I missed something, when does his current contract run out

In the summer. His contract was extended by 12 months last year.

 

[sillytuna]

Why do a lot people believe Saiss will be leaving in the summer, have I missed something, when does his current contract run out

I have no idea but was told on sunday that saiss and Moutinho are leaving in the summer. Just rumours. Hope both stay but their contracts expire and both have good reason to make a change.

 

[AndyWolves]

It's worth pointing out that in another thread OP considered not finishing top 6 to be a failure by Fosun.

 

[sillytuna]

It's worth pointing out that in another thread OP considered not finishing top 6 to be a failure by Fosun.

Some people just live to be disappointed rather than enjoying life.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Angst ridden, miserable, doom laden screaming and wailing which seems to go on for ever…. Thats the fans, not Radiohead.

To be fair, it's also an accurate description of radiohead.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

Sometimes people don’t think of the alternatives. Eg if we could command them to sell what then?

Dump your wife ? …and get Scarlett Johansen? Or dump your wife find a new home and learn to cook and live on your own when your children no longer speak to you.?

my point is Fosun out is a stupid question unless you know the alternative…this thread only proves that the mix has a few very ignorant and illogical posters …when did wolves ever have a better owner?

Dump the wife, kids stop talking, get the house to myself, hmmmmmmm.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

****ing ridiculous thread. Embarrassing.

Yes, but the result is we all want a towel now.

 

[Sketchead]

Why do a lot people believe Saiss will be leaving in the summer, have I missed something, when does his current contract run out

This summer isn't it? Seems to be a great person to have around the place and a very good player for us but feels as though there's a mutual 'time to break it off' on the horizon.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Just going round in circles here - we are doing well now, that's indisputable but the point is again, is that we are very thin on the ground, two key injuries, say Jimenez and Semedo would be my greatest fears, and then what? If you employ the right people the speculation aspect reduces else how do the bigger clubs get bigger ? We need depth, we need competition for places, right now the team picks itself which isn't healthy imo. We can now match them financially so we now need to match them on ambition.

I’m not, nor would I think any Wolves fan, say we don’t need more depth to the squad. I vocally called for it in both of the last two windows. Where we differ in opinion is in the strategy to achieve this, and I’m not suggesting we have the resources you think we have. The club could afford to spend 50-100m on players, not several hundred million. The fact that Fosun is worth tens of billions is almost irrelevant. They invested in Wolves as a business not a political or personal toy. If we are to get a new stadium under Fosun, it will be funded by commercial loans and the club’s income, not by a gift from Guo.

Fosun clearly approach squad building differently from the like of Man Utd or Everton. But I think it’s clear they do have a strategy to grow the strength and depth of the squad, albeit keeping its total size fairly small. They buy to sell for the purposes of reinvestment in the squad, not as an income stream for Fosun Int. As such, they generally avoid buying established players unless they are either good value (eg club in need to sell or player out of favour), the squad has a gap which needs filling (eg to cover a long term injury), or there is a succession plan for an existing player (who then moves out). We buy a good number of young players and we use our junior squads and partner clubs to develop them, either for our first team, or to be sold on to reinvest. This strategy is beginning to generate good additions to the senior squad, and it’s arguable that changing the coach was necessary to accelerate this.

So while I want to see more depth in the senior squad, I do appreciate and support Fosun’s broad strategy. I prefer to be part of a club which attracts players because it has a reputation for developing the best young talent, rather than one known for paying above the odds wages or fees. Back in SJH’s heyday when we were trying to get out of the second tier, that’s what we were known for, and look where that got us. He gifted us a beautiful stadium, but failed to establish us in the PL.

 

[Super Ted]

Yes, but the result is we all want a towel now.

No idea what that means.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

No idea what that means.

Starts somewhere around #203.
Do keep up mate.

 

[JamesWolves]

This summer isn't it? Seems to be a great person to have around the place and a very good player for us but feels as though there's a mutual 'time to break it off' on the horizon.

And Toti has turned into a natural replacement

Does mean we have to probably bring in 1 maybe 2 CB's in the summer seeing as Boly is more or less finished

 

[rincewind]

Makes the purchase of fabio even more bizarre. Shi must've had a couple before signing that one off

Actually, if you think about it, it suggests the whole premise of his argument is potentially *******s. We could make a huge profit on Fabio but its a huge and unnecessary risk, with any payout years in the future. If you hope to make money player trading there are safer ways, albeit probably for lower rewards.

 

[KFordOriginal]

Whoever thought this thread up was an absolute genius.
54 Boggie, Bloose or Vile fans have infiltrated the Mix.

 

[Ned Stark]

Actually, if you think about it, it suggests the whole premise of his argument is potentially *******s. We could make a huge profit on Fabio but its a huge and unnecessary risk, with any payout years in the future. If you hope to make money player trading there are safer ways, albeit probably for lower rewards.

or alternatively it suggests that that is not his 'argument' at all; this notion of Fosun being in Wolves for the purpose of trading players to make profit for themselves is a red herring as far as I can see; where Shi has actually made this 'argument' would be useful to know

 

[Thank you Sir Jack]

Whoever thought this thread up was an absolute genius.
54 Boggie, Bloose or Vile fans have infiltrated the Mix.

Some of them, but by no means all, are Wolves fans. Most people know who the non - Wolves fans are.