Ki-Jana Hoever - Value for money?

[Ned]

I actually like him but he needs games somewhere.

The one thing that does worry me is that top sides very rarely get it wrong with letting their best youngsters go before they’ve had a real chance to shine. The odd player slips through the net (De Bruyne for example) but it’s very wishful thinking if we think we will be able to pick the winners.

 

[Flump]

The one thing that does worry me is that top sides very rarely get it wrong with letting their best youngsters go before they’ve had a real chance to shine. The odd player slips through the net (De Bruyne for example) but it’s very wishful thinking if we think we will be able to pick the winners.

Chelsea alone have: De Bruyne, Matic, Salah, Lukaku, Livramento off the top of my head.

It's not even necessarily a mistake in letting players go, they may just not be in the right environment to flourish.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Hoever wasn’t to blame for the goal yesterday. Salah’s move with the ball could have have caught any defender off guard but however, Salah’s pass get by Saisse and Coady didn’t bloke the pass to stop Origi getting the ball.

There was enough blame to go around.

 

[Wolf316]

Hoever wasn’t to blame for the goal yesterday. Salah’s move with the ball could have have caught any defender off guard but however, Salah’s pass get by Saisse and Coady didn’t bloke the pass to stop Origi getting the ball.

There was enough blame to go around.

If Hoever passes to Raul on the overlap we get a point from the game.

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

Scapegoat of the Week, this week !!

 

[Ned]

Chelsea alone have: De Bruyne, Matic, Salah, Lukaku, Livramento off the top of my head.

It's not even necessarily a mistake in letting players go, they may just not be in the right environment to flourish.

Chelsea were my exception as they used to only really care about the success that particular season. With their managerial cycles I can see why the managers decided not to bother with young players.

 

[Jawwfc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467845759978594305

Important to remember he's just a kid, difficult situation to come on in the last minutes against the best player in the world and his former club.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467845759978594305

Important to remember he's just a kid, difficult situation to come on in the last minutes against the best player in the world and his former club.

Burr wouldn’t of made the same error!!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Hate all the soft nature of the replies.

Damn right he should apologise, he made two massive mistakes and undid all of his teammates hard work with those actions. He should be taking a look at himself. Was he focused enough coming on? Was he ready? Either way, it's not good enough.

Of course, we all make mistakes, just saying when we do we generally apologise, so at least he's fronted it up but he managed to lose us a game after coming on for a ****ing minute, so deserves criticism and needs to bounce back.

 

[WolfLing]

Hate all the soft nature of the replies.

Damn right he should apologise, he made two massive mistakes and undid all of his teammates hard work with those actions. He should be taking a look at himself. Was he focused enough coming on? Was he ready? Either way, it's not good enough.

Of course, we all make mistakes, just saying when we do we generally apologise, so at least he's fronted it up but he managed to lose us a game after coming on for a ****ing minute, so deserves criticism and needs to bounce back.

Bruno said what he did can't happen. Bruno didn't name check him in the media, but you can be sure that Hoever would've been told that if you're going to run the full length of the pitch, either do something other than fall over, or make sure you're back in position and ready to defend the next move. I wonder if that is what has prompted his post. You don't see Bruno commenting?!

Yes, he's just a kid but he's owning his mistake so he can learn from it and move on. Fair play to him.

Telling him he did nothing wrong won't help with that!

 

[berwickwolf]

Every player made a mistake during the game. The biggest mistake was Lage's bringing off Traore at that point so we had nowhere to relieve the pressure. And lage should not, even indirectly, blame a youngster that he brought on and put on the wrong side. Semedo, the more experienced player, should have switched to the left. Hoever has proven that he will be a good player. Lage must prove he can manage a game with his substitutions.

 

[dewolfman]

Bloody hell, he doesn't need to come out and apologise, probably because he's seen all the numbnuts slagging him off.

 

[WolfLing]

Lage must prove he can manage a game with his substitutions.

I think that is a bit harsh on Lage!

He didn't really have any other options that Hoever for left wing-back once Ait-Nouri was injured. Whether Semedo moves over is one for debat, but it messes around more of a defence that for 93 minutes functioned very well.

If Hoever hadn't just run the full length of the pitch for no real reason, he probably wouldn't have been caught under the ball. It's the decision making to say hang-on a minute, I'm meant to be marking Mo Salah! Hold the ball, play it simple and get back into shape.

I don't blame him for the result by the way, in the same way I don't blame Lage. **** happens. Own it, learnt from it, move on and get better!

 

[berwickwolf]

I think that is a bit harsh on Lage!

He didn't really have any other options that Hoever for left wing-back once Ait-Nouri was injured. Whether Semedo moves over is one for debat, but it messes around more of a defence that for 93 minutes functioned very well.

If Hoever hadn't just run the full length of the pitch for no real reason, he probably wouldn't have been caught under the ball. It's the decision making to say hang-on a minute, I'm meant to be marking Mo Salah! Hold the ball, play it simple and get back into shape.

I don't blame him for the result by the way, in the same way I don't blame Lage. **** happens. Own it, learnt from it, move on and get better!

Fair enough about a lack of options, obviously if Marcal was fit it would have been better. However he didnt need to take Traore off, even if he had to replace Ait Nouri, who was class but obviously cramping up. It meant we could not relieve the pressure at the end. And Lage has been consistent in not putting on substitutions early enough. He almost cost us the Newcastle game for example and was woeful against Palace, playing Traore too defensively. He doesn't see when players are obviously exhausted or when we need to change tactics.

 

[WolfLing]

Fair enough about a lack of options, obviously if Marcal was fit it would have been better. However he didnt need to take Traore off, even if he had to replace Ait Nouri, who was class but obviously cramping up. It meant we could not relieve the pressure at the end. And Lage has been consistent in not putting on substitutions early enough. He almost cost us the Newcastle game for example and was woeful against Palace, playing Traore too defensively. He doesn't see when players are obviously exhausted or when we need to change tactics.

Maybe. Yes, they looked like bad substitutions on the face of it, but the players all wear those little sports bras now with GPS trackers in them. Bruno and his team will know more than anyone else just how exhausted players are from the stats they get. It tells them how close to injury players are, etc. and Traore's stats must have been what led to his substitution.

 

[Ned]

The fact that he’s come out and apologised suggests that people have actually gone out of their way on social media to have a go at him. I mean, what’s the point in doing that to any player who makes an honest mistake let alone a youngster?

I really don’t get some people.

 

[Ned]

Hate all the soft nature of the replies.

Damn right he should apologise, he made two massive mistakes and undid all of his teammates hard work with those actions. He should be taking a look at himself. Was he focused enough coming on? Was he ready? Either way, it's not good enough.

Of course, we all make mistakes, just saying when we do we generally apologise, so at least he's fronted it up but he managed to lose us a game after coming on for a ****ing minute, so deserves criticism and needs to bounce back.

But where do you draw the line? Should Raul have come out after the attempted chip against Norwich (I think) and apologise for costing us 2 points with a mistake? Should Adama come out and apologise for not playing Raul in he had the chance against Burnley?

 

[MontyR]

The fact that he’s come out and apologised suggests that people have actually gone out of their way on social media to have a go at him. I mean, what’s the point in doing that to any player who makes an honest mistake let alone a youngster?

I really don’t get some people.

Go onto any players' social media after they make a mistake (or even lose) in a match and you'll see it. I notice a lot of the abuse comes from people presumably living outside of Europe, so maybe its just different cultures. No excuse for it regardless. Remember the comments that would be left on Wolves' facebook if Saiss was dropped?

 

[sc91]

The fact that he’s come out and apologised suggests that people have actually gone out of their way on social media to have a go at him. I mean, what’s the point in doing that to any player who makes an honest mistake let alone a youngster?

I really don’t get some people.

Wolves fan boo'd Jota. Dont search for logic where there is none.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Go onto any players' social media after they make a mistake (or even lose) in a match and you'll see it. I notice a lot of the abuse comes from people presumably living outside of Europe, so maybe its just different cultures. No excuse for it regardless. Remember the comments that would be left on Wolves' facebook if Saiss was dropped?

Wait until we release him lol

 

[Deleted member yltz11841]

Every player made a mistake during the game. The biggest mistake was Lage's bringing off Traore at that point so we had nowhere to relieve the pressure. And lage should not, even indirectly, blame a youngster that he brought on and put on the wrong side. Semedo, the more experienced player, should have switched to the left. Hoever has proven that he will be a good player. Lage must prove he can manage a game with his substitutions.

It would help if Bruno had bench to choose from rather than basically youth players and goal keepers.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

It would help if Bruno had bench to choose from rather than basically youth players and goal keepers.

The bench looks better if Boly, Marcal, Neto and Johnny are all fit.

 

[Minimalist]

The bench looks better if Boly, Marcal, Neto and Johnny are all fit.

Absolutely.
Also looks better if benches were only 7 or 5 players.

Make the bench 30, then city fans can moan they have 2 keepers and kids on it!

 

[Bacon Sandwich]

Fair play to him.
Very much looking forward to Jeff Shi's apology at the end of yet another transfer window

 

[Ned]

The bench looks better if Boly, Marcal, Neto and Johnny are all fit.

Of course, 100% agreed but logic could dictate that we will have at least 1 injury/suspension for most games this season.

 

[Flump]

Damn right he should apologise, he made two massive mistakes and undid all of his teammates hard work with those actions. He should be taking a look at himself.

But where do you draw the line? Should Raul have come out after the attempted chip against Norwich (I think) and apologise for costing us 2 points with a mistake? Should Adama come out and apologise for not playing Raul in he had the chance against Burnley?

I demand every player apologise, to prove my hard-man credentials are on a par with Souness' or Roy Keane's - no excuses, and they should all be looking in the mirror. But not too much, like that **** Pogba would be because he's so vain.

From the Liverpool game, now that Hoever has fessed up, we're still waiting on at least these apologies below. Ideally written in white text on a black background on Instgram, to reflect the gravity of their grovelling for our forgiveness:

Sa x2: conceded, and mistake for the Jota miss
Coady: captained us to a defeat
Saiss: goal came from his side
RAN: got "injured"
Semedo: is Semedo
Donk: is donk
Traore: didn't score, had to be subbed after sprinting around for 89 minutes
Hwang: didn't score like he did in the first few games
Trincao: did **** all

Losing 0-1 to Liverpool is clearly unacceptable, and so we need people to blame. WHEN IS JEFF GOING TO PULL HIS FINGER OUT AND FIRE SOMEONE FOR THIS DEBACLE.

 

[Scallywolf]

Bloody hell, he doesn't need to come out and apologise, probably because he's seen all the numbnuts slagging him off.

Did anyone see Conor giving Hoever a few verbals after the goal was given away?

I just saw Conor’s hand movements, telling the kid what he should have done. A totally straightforward pass to Raul, not even difficult as Raul was in acres of space.

Hoever had better learn quickly from his mistake in the misplaced pass. He must also learn that he did not get back quickly enough when the ball was played to Salah. Where was he?

He played for less than 5 minutes on Saturday and was a game changer!

Value for money Is the thread title. The jury is out.

Let’s compare him with the talent and value for money of Ait-Nouri shall we!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

But where do you draw the line? Should Raul have come out after the attempted chip against Norwich (I think) and apologise for costing us 2 points with a mistake? Should Adama come out and apologise for not playing Raul in he had the chance against Burnley?

Get your point but this is different as it was Hoever's only contribution.

The other incidents the players have generally run around all game, given their all and made mistakes, although I don't think missing a chance compares to not making a five yard pass.

In this case though Hoever has done nothing else. His only contribution was to come on and lose us the game by not making a simple pass and then being beaten far too easily with questionable positioning.

When it's the only thing you've done, IMO it's right to apologise. I hope the lesson he has learnt is that you can be called on whenever because as I said about Leeds as well, for me he doesn't look ready when he comes on and it seems the case in the performances.

 

[Ned]

I demand every player apologise, to prove my hard-man credentials are on a par with Souness' or Roy Keane's - no excuses, and they should all be looking in the mirror. But not too much, like that **** Pogba would be because he's so vain.

From the Liverpool game, now that Hoever has fessed up, we're still waiting on at least these apologies below. Ideally written in white text on a black background on Instgram, to reflect the gravity of their grovelling for our forgiveness:

Sa x2: conceded, and mistake for the Jota miss
Coady: captained us to a defeat
Saiss: goal came from his side
RAN: got "injured"
Semedo: is Semedo
Donk: is donk
Traore: didn't score, had to be subbed after sprinting around for 89 minutes
Hwang: didn't score like he did in the first few games
Trincao: did **** all

Losing 0-1 to Liverpool is clearly unacceptable, and so we need people to blame. WHEN IS JEFF GOING TO PULL HIS FINGER OUT AND FIRE SOMEONE FOR THIS DEBACLE.

Too right.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

Bloody hell, he doesn't need to come out and apologise, probably because he's seen all the numbnuts slagging him off.

Spot on mate.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Saisse and Coady are more to blame for the goal.
Look at it again.

 

[Hot Fuss]

No issue with the mistake, it happens.

The apology online on the other hand is absolute nonsense. Only thing worse is the replies.

 

[JOSWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1467845759978594305

Important to remember he's just a kid, difficult situation to come on in the last minutes against the best player in the world and his former club.

Fair play to him for holding his hands up there. He will learn.

 

[berwickwolf]

Did anyone see Conor giving Hoever a few verbals after the goal was given away?

I just saw Conor’s hand movements, telling the kid what he should have done. A totally straightforward pass to Raul, not even difficult as Raul was in acres of space.

Hoever had better learn quickly from his mistake in the misplaced pass. He must also learn that he did not get back quickly enough when the ball was played to Salah. Where was he?

He played for less than 5 minutes on Saturday and was a game changer!

Value for money Is the thread title. The jury is out.

Let’s compare him with the talent and value for money of Ait-Nouri shall we!

I did see that. And that's fair enough between the Captain and his players. And Coady will have had a quiet word again, for sure.
But a manager must remain loyal in public. More Nuno than Mourinho.
Maybe that's the difference between an ex player at the top level and a coach who never really played. there's a point for discussion!

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Hate all the soft nature of the replies.

Damn right he should apologise, he made two massive mistakes and undid all of his teammates hard work with those actions. He should be taking a look at himself. Was he focused enough coming on? Was he ready? Either way, it's not good enough.

Of course, we all make mistakes, just saying when we do we generally apologise, so at least he's fronted it up but he managed to lose us a game after coming on for a ****ing minute, so deserves criticism and needs to bounce back.

He made one mistake in giving the ball away. The second part Salah has done him. No two ways about it.
We gave the ball away a lot throughout the game. It is not like Liverpool didn't have 3 or 4 better chances.

 

[Wolf316]

Saisse and Coady are more to blame for the goal.
Look at it again.

Giving the ball away rather than passing to Raul is to blame for the goal.

 

[AndyY]

People make mistakes all the time, particularly when they have hardly any game time and are not used to the speed, physicality, intensity and pressure of the game.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I've never seen him play particularly well and don't rate him tbh but the mistake for the goal happens to a kid. Not going to crush him for that.

 

[hollo]

Did anyone see Conor giving Hoever a few verbals after the goal was given away?

I just saw Conor’s hand movements, telling the kid what he should have done. A totally straightforward pass to Raul, not even difficult as Raul was in acres of space.

Hoever had better learn quickly from his mistake in the misplaced pass. He must also learn that he did not get back quickly enough when the ball was played to Salah. Where was he?

He played for less than 5 minutes on Saturday and was a game changer!

Value for money Is the thread title. The jury is out.

Let’s compare him with the talent and value for money of Ait-Nouri shall we!

Can't hoever learn from his mistakes on loan at birmingham city

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

I was disappointed in Conor and any of the other senior players not going over to him after it happened. I remember that happening to Otasowie as well last year after that miss against Brighton.