Wolves vs Farense

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

They gave him a rough time in one game v Forest which we lost 3-2 after being 2 up at HT. January 1964. He kept pulling out of tackles with Joe Wilson because he didn't want his leg broken. Joe was an animal who we signed about a year later. Cullis swapped him a week later for La Flem.

As I recall it wasn`t just one game with fans getting on his back and calling him Gladys.hope you weren`t one
I have been involved in 3 fights with other Wolves fans one defending Hinton,
one defending 17 yr.old Tim Flowers in goal with a couple of so called fans giving him stick right behind the goal
and then sticking up for Graham Turner after taking over from Little

 

[North West Wanderer]

I get your point but it's a loose point. Could we not make the point for any player? How do we not know Semedo wouldn't be a good centre-back in a four?

Firstly, his performances this pre-season are a massive concern. He has got done far too often.

Then we have the physicality that's required. The Kilman stat where he ran with a high intensity more in 45 minutes of a pre-season game than in 90 minutes in a back three in the Premier League, show the requirements that are needed. Can Coady do that? I don't think so, it's not his fault, he just can't run. He's a back three specialist.

For the record, I'd keep him and switch between a back three and four this season but the reality is that if someone is going to go we're going to have a hard decision to make in who to sell.

I would argue your point is loose again with very little evidence. The semedo point particularly bears zero relevance as he has no experience playing in a centre back role.

Regarding “being done” in pre season. I can’t say I’ve seen every minute as I’ve been away a fair bit. However Collins gave away a penalty and has had a few shaky moments from the limited stuff I’ve seen, but that seems to have been glossed over.

I would also argue pre season is for making those mistakes, and for building fitness.

I also think Kilman and Collins are both very young and very quiet for the roles. Do we have a talker and an organiser in there?

The physicality stat is an interesting one, I would argue Coady could potentially do that, and I think you’re doing him a discredit there. He played right back, and did a reasonable job there and for me while he wasn’t the fastest, he certainly didn’t lack the running.

Kilman has zero experience of playing at Premier League level in a two, but we’ve accepted he can do it. Coady has consistently adapted through his entire career to the extent he’s captained his country. Yet he’s been written off and derided by certain fans who have this football manager mentality (not you) who don’t show him any respect or appreciate the value of such a clubman.

We are placing a whole lot of reliance on a system we have little experience of playing, with two talented but very young CBs. We will most likely have to go back to a three at some point, and I believe Lage wants the option to do so, so again why would we sell one of the best in that sweeper position in the country?

If we do need to sell to buy, then for me we are weakening one area to potentially strengthen another. Kilman gets injured, we have Boly, or Gomes or Mosquera in a four. I have very little confidence, due to lack of experience and potentially talent.

If we do sell Neves and sign Nunes then we’ve stayed still and sold a player who one way or another won’t be with us soon.

Coady adores this club, brilliant ambassador and club captain. The only caveat is during a World Cup year, will he want a guaranteed start like he’s always had? In which case we may have to sell him as I wouldn’t ever stand in the way of such a man’s ambitions.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

As I recall it wasn`t just one game with fans getting on his back and calling him Gladys.hope you weren`t one
I have been involved in 3 fights with other Wolves fans one defending Hinton,
one defending 17 yr.old Tim Flowers in goal with a couple of so called fans giving him stick right behind the goal
and then sticking up for Graham Turner after taking over from Little

You don't read this Forum much if you think that, and please don't insult my intelligence. I think the treatment Hinton got was a disgrace and have said so half a dozen times on here. 'Gladys' was just a nickname, he was also called 'Noddy'. Cullis was a great manager but he made some strange decisions towards the end of his tenure, selling Hinton being by far the worst.

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Bonatini was different. He had a great first half to the season, then went off the boil and we signed him for £5M in the summer.

As far as I know there was no obligation to buy. And given his form since Xmas looked like a poor deal.

£5M poorly spent but those early goals were the springboard for promotion. Maybe reward for that?

Must have been a favour/thanks to him/mendes at the time. Plus he has had a contract renewal since im sure. It is what it is, we will never know all of the inner workings of what goes on behind the scenes, but if paying 5m for bonatini meant getting the likes of boly, jota, moutinho, neves signed up at the time then so be it.

 

[Highlandwolf2]

You don't read this Forum much if you think that, and please don't insult my intelligence. I think the treatment Hinton got was a disgrace and have said so half a dozen times on here. 'Gladys' was just a nickname, he was also called 'Noddy'. Cullis was a great manager but he made some strange decisions towards the end of his tenure, selling Hinton being by far the worst.

Hinton had a big falling out with Cullis who accused Hinton of not having enough bottle. Despite Hinton being an England international Cullis for a while had him training with the juniors and played him in the third or fourth team. Hinton did not want to leave Wolves. Went onto great success as a manager in USA football.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

mosquera, toti, ronan and all were top of my list for decent performances,

mosquera is raw, but hes quick and he busts a gut.

Both mosequera and toti, look far more likely to slot into the 4 then coady and boly.

 

[Timberwolf]

I think this was Hwang after the penalty. He was certainly telling the ref something and pointing to the crowd behind the goal.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1553843410779480065

I questioned this on here at the time. However, another poster claimed Hwang was complaining about a laser being pointed at him, whilst he was trying to take the penalty.

Apparently a laser shined at him.

If Hwang was the victim of racist abuse, why would someone make up the story about a laser…?

 

[WickedWolfie]

I questioned this on here at the time. However, another poster claimed Hwang was complaining about a laser being pointed at him, whilst he was trying to take the penalty.

If Hwang was the victim of racist abuse, why would someone make up the story about a laser…?

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Either action is disgusting.

 

[Guzeppi]

I have been involved in 3 fights with other Wolves fans one defending Hinton,
one defending 17 yr.old Tim Flowers in goal with a couple of so called fans giving him stick right behind the goal
and then sticking up for Graham Turner after taking over from Little

I feel the same way about Zenga and Cutrone.

I will beat the crap out of you all.... in Chess. I swear I will.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I feel the same way about Zenga and Cutrone.

I will beat the crap out of you all.... in Chess. I swear I will.

Of course, you hated Mir.....

 

[Guzeppi]

Of course, you hated Mir.....

He has now gone past the 12 month 'remonstration of regret' period. But yes, we should have kept Mir, last year. As so obviously proved each time his supposed better was floundering.

 

[Timberwolf]

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Either action is disgusting.

Except there was no laser…

 

[WickedWolfie]

Except there was no laser…

Ah, ok. So where the hell did that come from?

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I would argue your point is loose again with very little evidence. The semedo point particularly bears zero relevance as he has no experience playing in a centre back role.

Regarding “being done” in pre season. I can’t say I’ve seen every minute as I’ve been away a fair bit. However Collins gave away a penalty and has had a few shaky moments from the limited stuff I’ve seen, but that seems to have been glossed over.

I would also argue pre season is for making those mistakes, and for building fitness.

I also think Kilman and Collins are both very young and very quiet for the roles. Do we have a talker and an organiser in there?

The physicality stat is an interesting one, I would argue Coady could potentially do that, and I think you’re doing him a discredit there. He played right back, and did a reasonable job there and for me while he wasn’t the fastest, he certainly didn’t lack the running.

Kilman has zero experience of playing at Premier League level in a two, but we’ve accepted he can do it. Coady has consistently adapted through his entire career to the extent he’s captained his country. Yet he’s been written off and derided by certain fans who have this football manager mentality (not you) who don’t show him any respect or appreciate the value of such a clubman.

We are placing a whole lot of reliance on a system we have little experience of playing, with two talented but very young CBs. We will most likely have to go back to a three at some point, and I believe Lage wants the option to do so, so again why would we sell one of the best in that sweeper position in the country?

If we do need to sell to buy, then for me we are weakening one area to potentially strengthen another. Kilman gets injured, we have Boly, or Gomes or Mosquera in a four. I have very little confidence, due to lack of experience and potentially talent.

If we do sell Neves and sign Nunes then we’ve stayed still and sold a player who one way or another won’t be with us soon.

Coady adores this club, brilliant ambassador and club captain. The only caveat is during a World Cup year, will he want a guaranteed start like he’s always had? In which case we may have to sell him as I wouldn’t ever stand in the way of such a man’s ambitions.

It's a tough one with pre-season, it ultimately doesn't matter but it's still concerning to see how Coady has played.

I think it's slightly harsh on Collins. He had an average first game, was excellent the second one and whilst he gave away a soft penalty against Sporting CP, it was a dive and we defended very well on the whole.

Plus, Coady has been playing against second and third division players.

I was at the Alaves game and Collins does talk a lot. Probably not on the Coady level but he is constantly shouting, so that's a positive in terms of the organisation.

With the physicality I didn't mean to question Coady's stamina. He clearly is fit and a model professional, so no doubts about that, it was more the number of sprints you have to make. I mean he can't run in that sense. Again, not criticising him for that, but my point was the news about Kilman shows a back four requires a lot of sprinting and I'd say Coady is one of the slowest players in the league, so he's not suited to doing that.

I agree entirely that relying on two young centre-backs is risky, but that looks as though it's what we're doing! I also have doubts about Toti and Mosquera (& Coady) so if either Kilman or Collins get injured I'd go straight back to a back three - which is why I wouldn't sell Coady and hope Lage does mix it up.

As you say, only Coady knows if he will push for a move because of the World Cup.

The overall point is that if we work on the basis someone has to go, it's tough. Like you, I'd stuck up for Dendoncker, so I would not want him to go. Aside from Donk and Coady though, we've not got that many players who would fetch a decent fee (I'm talking £15-20m upwards). And those that do we certainly wouldn't want to sell (RAN, Kilman, Neves, Neto etc.)

So we could be in a position where we have to make a decision we don't want to make and if we do persist with a back four then I think we can find better than Coady for a very cheap price - because IMO he's only ever a centre-back in a three.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Ah, ok. So where the hell did that come from?

I think Hwang was pointing to his eyes when making the complaint and some thought initially it meant there was something shining on his eyes. In fact it appears he was explaining the abuse he had received.

 

[wwbug]

It is a big concern in my opinion. Lack of goals from our attacking players continues to be a problem and yet zero attacking signings this summer so far.

JOS its is truly horrific . I dont use that term lightly today.
We scored less goals than we have in almost 100 years, then we lend out Silva.
I really cant see Neto and Podence as primarily goals scorers just creators .
I have watched players from John Richards, Bobby Gould , Steve Bull Robbie Keane , Don Goodman, Mutchy , Alan Sunderland , Derek Dougan Andy Gray and Steve Kindon through to Jimmy and these two are not natural goal scorers .

 

[North West Wanderer]

It's a tough one with pre-season, it ultimately doesn't matter but it's still concerning to see how Coady has played.

I think it's slightly harsh on Collins. He had an average first game, was excellent the second one and whilst he gave away a soft penalty against Sporting CP, it was a dive and we defended very well on the whole.

Plus, Coady has been playing against second and third division players.

I was at the Alaves game and Collins does talk a lot. Probably not on the Coady level but he is constantly shouting, so that's a positive in terms of the organisation.

With the physicality I didn't mean to question Coady's stamina. He clearly is fit and a model professional, so no doubts about that, it was more the number of sprints you have to make. I mean he can't run in that sense. Again, not criticising him for that, but my point was the news about Kilman shows a back four requires a lot of sprinting and I'd say Coady is one of the slowest players in the league, so he's not suited to doing that.

I agree entirely that relying on two young centre-backs is risky, but that looks as though it's what we're doing! I also have doubts about Toti and Mosquera (& Coady) so if either Kilman or Collins get injured I'd go straight back to a back three - which is why I wouldn't sell Coady and hope Lage does mix it up.

As you say, only Coady knows if he will push for a move because of the World Cup.

The overall point is that if we work on the basis someone has to go, it's tough. Like you, I'd stuck up for Dendoncker, so I would not want him to go. Aside from Donk and Coady though, we've not got that many players who would fetch a decent fee (I'm talking £15-20m upwards). And those that do we certainly wouldn't want to sell (RAN, Kilman, Neves, Neto etc.)

So we could be in a position where we have to make a decision we don't want to make and if we do persist with a back four then I think we can find better than Coady for a very cheap price - because IMO he's only ever a centre-back in a three.

Good post. As I said I admit to having seen little but did think Collins looked good, a little last ditch on a couple of occasions but glad to hear he talks.

I also don’t think Coady is slow, he’s just not quick if that makes sense haha

It’s a really tough decision all round, and I’d probably be more likely to consider RAN as we have an excellent replacement once semedo is fit

 

[Highlandwolf2]

played with Flowers and Thomson for England v.France if I`m remembering right

Did not Alan Hinton also play in this game (1962?)

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Did not Alan Hinton also play in this game (1962?)

 

[JOSWolf]

To me Ronan has to stay at the club now.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

You don't read this Forum much if you think that, and please don't insult my intelligence. I think the treatment Hinton got was a disgrace and have said so half a dozen times on here. 'Gladys' was just a nickname, he was also called 'Noddy'. Cullis was a great manager but he made some strange decisions towards the end of his tenure, selling Hinton being by far the worst.

just come back on line with no intention to insult anybody or anything but I`m saying it wasn`t just one game where
Hinton took stick.the term Gladys was an insult used by some Wolves fans and an affectionate term by Derby fans.
Noddy was because of his style of running.
Have had a look at the stats for 1963/64.
Hinton;21 games/5 goals
Le Flem 13 games/4 goals
Also you never mention the fact that Le Flem had severe jaundice which effectively finished his career

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Hinton had a big falling out with Cullis who accused Hinton of not having enough bottle. Despite Hinton being an England international Cullis for a while had him training with the juniors and played him in the third or fourth team. Hinton did not want to leave Wolves. Went onto great success as a manager in USA football.

Not forgetting a League Championship medal with Derby! Cullis got that whole episode seriously wrong.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

just come back on line with no intention to insult anybody or anything but I`m saying it wasn`t just one game where
Hinton took stick.the term Gladys was an insult used by some Wolves fans and an affectionate term by Derby fans.
Noddy was because of his style of running.
Have had a look at the stats for 1963/64.
Hinton;21 games/5 goals
Le Flem 13 games/4 goals
Also you never mention the fact that Le Flem had severe jaundice which effectively finished his career

People's memories differ. The booing at the Forest game was what I remember, nothing much at any other game. If you are trying to suggest that Le Flem was even half the player that Hinton was, I beg to differ.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

People's memories differ. The booing at the Forest game was what I remember, nothing much at any other game. If you are trying to suggest that Le Flem was even half the player that Hinton was, I beg to differ.

no I`m saying that I disagree with your assertion Le Flem is/was Wolves worst signing.
Also if Hinton had carried on at Wolves the critics would have got worse and his confidence could
have gone all together.As it happens by Boxing day one of Wolves all time greats was playing left wing

 

[Big Saft Kid]

no I`m saying that I disagree with your assertion Le Flem is/was Wolves worst signing.
Also if Hinton had carried on at Wolves the critics would have got worse and his confidence could
have gone all together.As it happens by Boxing day one of Wolves all time greats was playing left wing

Show me where I asserted that Le Flem was Wolves worst ever signing. All I said was that he was ****ing useless and that swapping him with Hinton was lunacy on Cullis's part. I stand by those judgements. You obviously don't agree. Let's leave it at that.