Wolves Fans Arrested At Brighton

[wolvesaywe]

Absolutely no loss if these two are banned.

And as for lines being drawn, if you don't think homophobia in any form belongs over that line then there's no point even trying to persuade you.

 

[clivewolves]

My point isn't so much about the fans, but more about the clubs and the authorities as they set the standard of what is tolerated within stadiums.

Another example is a section of Spurs fans calling themselves the 'Yid Army'. Now I know there is an historical association between Spurs and Jews due to the local area and the club tolerate their fans singing the song, but I've also heard many Jewish fans of Chelsea and West Ham arguing how they find it very offensive. Ian Abrahams of Talkport (I know he's not everyones cup of tea) once spoke very passionately how he hates having to listen to Yid being song at grounds when covering Spurs for Talksport and how he would like it to end. I might be wrong but Spurs seem to have taken the position of tolerating it, whilst the Premier League as a whole I've not see any response to it at all.

Again I might be wrong, but on this very forum I've noticed if someone makes a pun on a Chinese name they get shut down very quickly, but puns on European names are allowed without push back. I like a good pun, but at least let's have some consistency.

 

[MasWolf]

So what did they actually do or say ?
I heard ****ing loads of Wolves fans shouting fag got , p00fs and gayboys about 100 times !!

I can't believe that is happening in 2019. After the racist abuse during the Manchester Derby, I was thinking that our fans were really good as I'm yet to hear anything like that from us, but clearly I was wrong. The FA really need to start punishing clubs (deducting points) when fans do this.

 

[TheRetroChief]

@wolf of sedgley Is the kids team round your parts still the Sedgley White Lions?

Sounds racist and not very inclusive to me.




The local Tigers will be very upset.

 

[WolfLing]

Being racist and homophobic isn't against the law. But being openly racist and homophobic in public is.

It's where your personal line is drawn. Some people are appalled by what happened at Man City on one hand, but dismissive of what happened at Brighton.

One reason for this might be that the racist abuse direction at Man United's players was directed at specific individuals, whereas I would guess the homophobic chants at Brighton would be more along the lines of the assumption that if you support Brighton you are gay, due to Brighton's relatively high proportion of gay inhabitants.

So it's far more general than specific abuse to an individual, more aligned to singing that Welsh supporters are 'sheep-****gers' or that black players have giant dicks than anything else.

These things still aren't right, but it's a grey area for a lot of people who don't see that this is wrong and the damage these stereotypes can still have.

They should probably still be banned for being utterly unoriginal, outdated and unfunny.

 

[BN1Wolves]

I can't believe that is happening in 2019. After the racist abuse during the Manchester Derby, I was thinking that our fans were really good as I'm yet to hear anything like that from us, but clearly I was wrong. The FA really need to start punishing clubs (deducting points) when fans do this.

It was not like they were doing it quietly either ! But hey , quite frankly I dont give a ****. Sticks and stones. Anyone offended by words needs a damn quick reality check !

 

[reanswolf]

I wonder if anyone will pick up the fact that Swansea fans were singing anti-English songs at West Brom?

 

[MasWolf]

Lot's of things offensive to lot's of people. I read one Wolves' fan call another a c""t on here yesterday just because someone (another Wolves' fan presumably) just happened to have a different opinion of our first half performance.
When half the stadium is singing '**** VAR' and millions of people can clearly hear this both live and on TV; should more be done to halt the 'offensive' language? The Liquidator was banned from Mol for using exactly the same 'offensive' language.
How sanitised should football become?
By the way, I'm not in any way condoning racist or homophobic behaviour, just outlining that other offensive language can easily be found.

I can see what you're saying but my priority would be the kids and families. Football now welcomes families more than ever before - Look at the Mol on a Saturday along with all the ticket offers for families and kids too. Football isn't a post watershed programme so it has to be suit a l8r for children too. I have a potty mouth at the best of times, but I don't like to hear people calling the ref a ****er infront of kids when watching games.

 

[ShropshireLad]

You do know the answer! It's because people don't care about abusing Welsh, Scots, Irish, Scousers etc. but they suddenly care about homophobic 'abuse'. I say 'abuse' because I'm presuming that it was something as basic as 'We can see you holding hands' to a Brighton fan. Also, this is now national news (going along SSN as I type) because of the 'Rainbow campaign'.

Again, I don't think it's funny but to want people banned from the club they clearly love and spend a lot of money following because they sung that to a fan is ludicrous.

You say about Molineux, I've heard them say several times that they can see every seat through the surveillance. So, would you want THOUSANDS of people banned for singing about Liverpool when we play them? I presume you would.

This is so over the top.

Once people understand that there's zero tolerance about these matters it should be possible to make them understand that they need to stop behaving like morons and allow everyone to enjoy the sport.

If a small number get singled out and are made an example of it's tough **** on them. It's no good a burglar saying in court that there are plenty of other burglars who get away with it so why should they be made an example of and so should be allowed to get off the charge. No, it's just tough **** on them as well.

The answer is that we all need to behave and the guy near me at the Mol who is banned (lost his season ticket) for making monkey chants can't complain about rough justice. End of.

 

[Vicious Sid]

Seems fair enough. I would expect Wolves to follow it up with a ban. A life ban, even if it was enforceable, seems a bit too much. I believe there should always be the chance of rehabilitation somehow. I do wonder if these things should be a Police matter but it is what it is.

However, I'll repeat what I said on another thread a few weeks ago. Wolves fans rightly condemned Bratislava fans for racist comments and it's right to condemn homophobic comments made by Wolves fans at Brighton, but thousands of Wolves fans sang a discriminatory song towards Daniel James because he is Welsh and absolutely nothing was said about it except for one journalist pointing it out online. I read the some of the replies saying it's banter and one person saying it was a 'right of passage' for the Welsh to be abused like it, but it doesn't seem right to me.

Where do you draw the line?

ask offa

 

[ShropshireLad]

I'm a very quiet spectator at football matches, mostly because I also attend cricket matches where the atmosphere is very different, and the comments subdued, but on one occasion at a football match when I was enraged by what happened on the field, I yelled loud and clear a comment that would get me a life ban today. I'm often disappointed when my opportunities to watch games live get ever more difficult, but as I can get annoyed it might be as well that I stay away.
Btw I noticed the other day a fan at the Etihad was being hunted not for saying anything but for doing something? What was that about, and how did a player notice him doing it whatever it was? Shouldn't he have been 100% focused on the game?
Where it's all going one can only guess, but it won't improve anything imho, it will more than likely backfire in the long run.

The thing is G/O, you weren't punished and you've learned your lesson. We all go through experiences like that in life and fair play to everyone who mends their ways.

 

[lycophilos]

Where to draw the line?

Is there really any serious prejudice against the particular group in question (other races, nationalities, sexual orientation etc.)?

And if so, is the chanting/action actually associated with it, and does it make the situation worse?

Test case.

Do many Wolves fans really believe that West Brom fans are six-fingered moronic inbreds (be honest here)?

If the answer is "yes", then indeed ban anti-West Brom chanting.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Dunno what happened. I'd wait before making a judgement either way.

 

[Miniwolf]

Dont think you can compare chants about the welsh to racist and homophobic ones. People have been beaten up and abused for many years for being black or gay, not sure many have been beaten up just for being Welsh. Those Welsh and scouse comments generally only come out at football grounds as some fans have to show what a lad they are and how funny they can be. Racial and homophobic attacks have been common in wider society and football clubs are totally correct in trying to stamp it out of football where everyone should be welcome without fear of abuse.

 

[ShropshireLad]

My point isn't so much about the fans, but more about the clubs and the authorities as they set the standard of what is tolerated within stadiums.

Another example is a section of Spurs fans calling themselves the 'Yid Army'. Now I know there is an historical association between Spurs and Jews due to the local area and the club tolerate their fans singing the song, but I've also heard many Jewish fans of Chelsea and West Ham arguing how they find it very offensive. Ian Abrahams of Talkport (I know he's not everyones cup of tea) once spoke very passionately how he hates having to listen to Yid being song at grounds when covering Spurs for Talksport and how he would like it to end. I might be wrong but Spurs seem to have taken the position of tolerating it, whilst the Premier League as a whole I've not see any response to it at all.

Again I might be wrong, but on this very forum I've noticed if someone makes a pun on a Chinese name they get shut down very quickly, but puns on European names are allowed without push back. I like a good pun, but at least let's have some consistency.

You make a good point. Walking along the concourse at Spurs (v Olympiakos) the other day a load of white geezers were repeatedly chanting "Yid army" and I have to say it made me feel disconcerted. It's exactly like black geezers, and this has been encouraged by rappers, referring to themselves with the N word. I know it's a way of them defusing the potency of the word, to be a "N" and proud, but it's a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

Getting back to the Spurs issue, it certainly doesn't justify white geezers in using the Y word.

 

[BigSteve]

Btw I noticed the other day a fan at the Etihad was being hunted not for saying anything but for doing something? What was that about, and how did a player notice him doing it whatever it was? Shouldn't he have been 100% focused on the game?

I agree, clearly the player was at fault for noticing that he was being abused. Incredibly unprofessional of him.

 

[BN1Wolves]

I wonder if anyone will pick up the fact that Swansea fans were singing anti-English songs at West Brom?

Of course not because

I agree, clearly the player was at fault for noticing that he was being abused. Incredibly unprofessional of him.

Im sure £200,000 a week might help him get over this huge massive trauma.

 

[Shergar]

Again I might be wrong, but on this very forum I've noticed if someone makes a pun on a Chinese name they get shut down very quickly, but puns on European names are allowed without push back. I like a good pun, but at least let's have some consistency.

I’m wight and you’re wong. (Jonathan Woss - 2015) A wacist speech impediment, does that count?

 

[Deleted as requested by user]

You make a good point. Walking along the concourse at Spurs (v Olympiakos) the other day a load of white geezers who were definitely not Jews were repeatedly chanting "Yid army" and I have to say it made me feel disconcerted. It's exactly like black geezers, and this has been encouraged by rappers, referring to themselves with the N word. I know it's a way of them defusing the potency of the word to be a "N" and proud but it's a sad state of affairs in my opinion.

Getting back to the Spurs issue, it certainly doesn't justify white geezers in using the Y word.

How did you know these 'white geezers' weren't of the Jewish faith. Surely that statement itself could be deemed offensive.

 

[AndyWolves]

For those at the back, the current line is drawn at racism and homophobia.

Anything other than that is currently fine.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

"Being a bit fruity"... bloody hell. Racist chants were "perfectly acceptable" for years too in the eyes of many fans. Discrimination in any form, whether you agree with it or not, is illegal and should face strong punishment.

But then, we have to cut out all the regional jokes, the banter between British home nations, hell, you wouldnt be able to make fun of a baggie for being a baggie, because that is discrimination too.

As an aside: I wish people would stop saying "discrimination in any form" because that literally encompasses every single detail used to tell one thing apart from another.

 

[JR WAS KING]

Do many Wolves fans really believe that West Brom fans are six-fingered moronic inbreds (be honest here)?

I do
Please don't shatter an illusion and tell me they're not.

 

[Deleted member 5340]

I like to think that as I attend church daily, I'm above reproach............ Admittedly, it's the Westboro Baptist Church but,hey-ho.

 

[RosehillWolf]

For anyone condoning this. We don’t need your “ support”. Just hand in your ST and **** off
And yes for anyone in the slightest bit interested my daughter is gay and I’m very proud of her

 

[Stafford]

Genuine questions.....where would you draw these lines? What is acceptable to you? Where and how would you draw these lines and how do you justify that those lines are acceptable not only to you but everyone else? What makes your lines the ones that should be adopted?

As I said, genuine questions because I dont have the answers

The lines move in line with society.
30 years ago you would here racist chanting and people would think its fine.
15 years ago fans would all sing about the ref being into raving and people would think it's fine.

 

[Deleted as requested by user]

It was obvious.

Sounds like stereotypical labelling to me, maybe you should practice what you preach.

 

[SBDJ]

Btw I noticed the other day a fan at the Etihad was being hunted not for saying anything but for doing something? What was that about, and how did a player notice him doing it whatever it was? Shouldn't he have been 100% focused on the game?
QUOTE]

Where do you begin with this ?

 

[BN1Wolves]

How did you know these 'white geezers' weren't of the Jewish faith. Surely that statement itself could be deemed offensive.

Boom !! I know LOADS of white jews. Infact every jew i work with and know are white !!

 

[xbomber]

This is why those who lend others their supporter number are on dodgy ground.

They sing "does your boyfriend know you're here" as they normally choose to do (or whatever they did, we don't know) and next thing you're identified as culpable and rabid internet judges are ferociously masturbating while falling over themselves for you to be banned forever. Or flogged. Or both. "They'll be no loss" apparently, even though we don't know who, what or even if.

Due process please. Love your enthusiasm but a bit OTT.

 

[loopy lupine]

Just a reminder.

We don't know what was said/chanted, there's a lot of guesswork going on here.
Mind how you post, be respectful of the opinion, argue the points, not the poster.

 

[Deleted member 4456]

This is why those who lend others their supporter number are on dodgy ground.

They sing "does your boyfriend know you're here" as they normally choose to do (or whatever they did, we don't know) and next thing you're identified as culpable and rabid internet judges are ferociously masturbating while falling over themselves for you to be banned forever. Or flogged. Or both. "They'll be no loss" apparently, even though we don't know who, what or even if.

Due process please. Love your enthusiasm but a bit OTT.

The simple answer here is not to give out your supporter number to strangers on the Internet. That's the risk you take if you do.

 

[Yamalroite]

Two blokes from Bridgnorth in late 40's.

Don't know what they said so can't judge but if was bad I hope they got some slaps from our fans on way out.

 

[Deleted as requested by user]

Bridgnorth, no surprise there really the place is full of stuck in the past types.

 

[xbomber]

The simple answer here is not to give out your supporter number to strangers on the Internet. That's the risk you take if you do.

That would be a correct interpretation of the post.

 

[TFWanderers]

What was banter 10 years ago is no longer acceptable. I'm not talking about racism as the kick it out campaign has been running for years.

The issue is, people ****ed up in a stadium will 'forget' and still sing certain songs because it makes them laugh.

At what point is the line drawn though? There's songs about the Welsh, the English, Hillsborough, Munich, the Scousers.

Surely all the above are hate crimes?

 

[1965Wolf]

Does anyone know what they are alleged to have done?

 

[Padraig]

Unfortunately Gary Neville’s comments at the weekend are true.

Our likely Prime Minister’s example perpetuates this behaviour. It’s getting worse.

 

[BigSteve]

Why can't these jobsworths just let us be racist and homophobic in peace?

We're hardly allowed to be bigoted anywhere these days, it should just be allowed in the football stadium. A safe haven, if you will.

After all, the only people who should be in a football stadium are straight, white English men so nobody will be offended anyway. (well maybe some of the players aren't but they're rich so it's ok to abuse them)

 

[Padraig]

I'm a very quiet spectator at football matches, mostly because I also attend cricket matches where the atmosphere is very different, and the comments subdued, but on one occasion at a football match when I was enraged by what happened on the field, I yelled loud and clear a comment that would get me a life ban today. I'm often disappointed when my opportunities to watch games live get ever more difficult, but as I can get annoyed it might be as well that I stay away.
Btw I noticed the other day a fan at the Etihad was being hunted not for saying anything but for doing something? What was that about, and how did a player notice him doing it whatever it was? Shouldn't he have been 100% focused on the game?
Where it's all going one can only guess, but it won't improve anything imho, it will more than likely backfire in the long run.

Yeah, you can’t even do a monkey gesture at someone these days. Even if they’ve got their BACK to you! What’s the world coming to?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Does anyone know what they are alleged to have done?

Nope.