Will Fosun realise?

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

To be fair, the reason for lying is quite clear, as they don't have to spend money.

Also, we did have problems, there's no doubt about it. But we solved those problems by having a massive sale and clear-out of all the high earners.

To do all that and then claim a £39m loss is the bit that doesn't add up.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Fair enough.

A lot of the issue had been on the 'allowable deductions', because we don't know what they are or how much they account for. The big one we hear for allowable deductions is the stadium, and we obviously know that we haven't spent on the stadium to a significant degree. Therefore, it's been tempting to think that our allowable deductions would be really low.

However, Madeley's article, via Wolves, has revealed that our allowable deductions are around £15m a year.

From the outside, we announce losses of £113m over two years, and as a fan you naturally think that we're really close to the limit which is £105m. But we're not. Because of that Madeley article, we can see we lost £80m for PSR. So, that's a big difference.

I don't think we're on to make a massive profit this summer, because the amortisation is a problem. I reckon we'll announce profits of £10-20m. So even after all the work we did, we're only making a small profit in the grand scheme of things.

But, if that's right, we'll be around £30-40m away from the limit.

This isn't me demanding that they spend by the way. I'm not doing that at all, I just hate the fact they're saying we can't.

In fairness I don't think they've ever said we can't spend, just understandably we were shifting from the policy that saw us spending £40 million or even £30 million+ etc to more cost effective deals. All about mitigated risk isn't it, like Dawson for the fee and contract an absolute no brainer, lemina to an extent too, Gomes was a bit more of a gamble but with a bigger potential return but we saw how much that had to be negotiated.

 

[wwbug]

Agreed, it doesn't really make sense why they would lie about their financial calculations. People seem to either want a conspiracy to hold us back or just want to spend someone elses money.

Weird thing is Fosun literally wrote us all a letter before the season started saying we were having a down year spending wise to get back on track, the manager at the time walked out 6 days before the season because of it. Now people seem annoyed they didn't change their minds halfway through the season and throw money at a possible top 7 finish, forgetting UEFA's rules are stricter than the Prems and we broke them last time we'd deffo break them this time too sofor all the enjoyment we'd get from a european adventure it would mean probably more cuts

I think people are annoyed because Silva and Sasa were loaned out and believed that salary saving could be used.
Also there was talk of two or three "sensibly priced " players arriving , which made sense with those two going, a thin squad, and the very late and abrupt departure of Nunes with another slice of salary saved and some amortisations costs disposed of.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

In fairness I don't think they've ever said we can't spend, just understandably we were shifting from the policy that saw us spending £40 million or even £30 million+ etc to more cost effective deals. All about mitigated risk isn't it, like Dawson for the fee and contract an absolute no brainer, lemina to an extent too, Gomes was a bit more of a gamble but with a bigger potential return but we saw how much that had to be negotiated.

I disagree. They've said we're not spending because we're £2.7m within the limit. They've been very specific.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

I think people are annoyed because Silva and Sasa were loaned out and believed that salary saving could be used.
Also there was talk of two or three "sensibly priced " players arriving , which made sense with those two going, and the very late and abrupt departure of Nunes with another slice of salary saved and some amortisations costs disposed of.

I get that, though I often think people don't believe we probably did try to sign players but situations changed. Not like there was loads happening anywhere was there, loads of clubs were sticking with what they had and so it's likely people either decided not to sell or put prices up to see if we'd bite. In the end we got close to Broja on loan when at one point the papers were saying we'd been told it would be £35 million or nothing.

I think some believe its just like football manager and you put in loads of bids and see what comes off, when its not that simple. It may be O'Neil himself said he only wanted certain targets and didn't want any others, I remember someone saying Nuno could've signed Hwang and that spanish player Olmo but turned them down, eventually the recruitment staff put hwang to lage and he said yeah so we got him

 

[SakosRightFoot]

I disagree. They've said we're not spending because we're £2.7m within the limit. They've been very specific.

Where is that direct quote out of interest?

Also is it not a "we're not spending this season" as the original letter was always about resetting this season and giving room for the summer

 

[lets all have a disco]

I think people are annoyed because Silva and Sasa were loaned out and believed that salary saving could be used.
Also there was talk of two or three "sensibly priced " players arriving , which made sense with those two going, a thin squad, and the very late and abrupt departure of Nunes with another slice of salary saved and some amortisations costs disposed of.

I actually think the window caught them out a bit....I think they banked on it opening up a bit towards the end and a few clubs getting desperate to off load a few because of wages etc..

When is n reality, not a lot happened across the board...it might have worked with Broja and we got him on loan on the cheap had Fulham not had the last minute injury crisis and spoiling the plan..

 

[Mugwump]

Whatever system we play I don't think Sasa can be relied upon to keep fit.

I agree, he can't, but at the same time, giving some of our Tiring forwards a break at the end of games would help. It's not ideal to be in that position where you have play players you don't really want to, or to tweak a formation and style of play, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic and do it. If GON saw this coming like he said he did, then why did he persist running players into the ground to the point of injury. As I said, sometimes, you have to be pragmatic.

 

[SuperGran]

Made me laugh listening to e&s podcast yesterday Liam Keene insisting he’s seen the accounts personally - yeah sure you have Liam.
The 2.7m was based on 17th place finish so we are obviously not going to finish that low and could have risked a low loan fee in January imo
having said that I get why they didn’t want to but also get why some are angry about it especially with the injuries.
no excuses for not backing Gary in the summer though I don’t think any one will be accepting of that.

 

[Wolf316]

Made me laugh listening to e&s podcast yesterday Liam Keene insisting he’s seen the accounts personally - yeah sure you have Liam.
The 2.7m was based on 17th place finish so we are obviously not going to finish that low and could have risked a low loan fee in January imo
having said that I get why they didn’t want to but also get why some are angry about it especially with the injuries.
no excuses for not backing Gary in the summer though I don’t think any one will be accepting of that.

Liam will say whatever the club tell him to say.

 

[SuperGran]

Liam will say whatever the club tell him to say.

I don’t think they tell him anything

 

[wwbug]

I agree, he can't, but at the same time, giving some of our Tiring forwards a break at the end of games would help. It's not ideal to be in that position where you have play players you don't really want to, or to tweak a formation and style of play, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic and do it. If GON saw this coming like he said he did, then why did he persist running players into the ground to the point of injury. As I said, sometimes, you have to be pragmatic.

I suppose he played us in to safety as early as possible. And hoped for January reinforcements.

 

[wwbug]

I actually think the window caught them out a bit....I think they banked on it opening up a bit towards the end and a few clubs getting desperate to off load a few because of wages etc..

When is n reality, not a lot happened across the board...it might have worked with Broja and we got him on loan on the cheap had Fulham not had the last minute injury crisis and spoiling the plan..

Whereas I would have expected that , as they knew Sasa and Silva didnt fit in late Autumn, they would have been actively looking for replacements for many months.

 

[wwbug]

I get that, though I often think people don't believe we probably did try to sign players but situations changed. Not like there was loads happening anywhere was there, loads of clubs were sticking with what they had and so it's likely people either decided not to sell or put prices up to see if we'd bite. In the end we got close to Broja on loan when at one point the papers were saying we'd been told it would be £35 million or nothing.

I think some believe its just like football manager and you put in loads of bids and see what comes off, when its not that simple. It may be O'Neil himself said he only wanted certain targets and didn't want any others, I remember someone saying Nuno could've signed Hwang and that spanish player Olmo but turned them down, eventually the recruitment staff put hwang to lage and he said yeah so we got him

It doesnt matter what the fans think its what should happen. We have been unbalanced and had weak spots since before Nuno left . We still are.
Every manager including Nuno have asked for a central attacker . Look how Nuno is using Woods . A player that has moved twice since Jimmy was injured.

 

[Scallywolf]

Sure he would have been playing, but I strongly suspect he wouldn’t have been scoring or contributing to assists.

Look at his Fulham stats… played 4, scored 0, assist 1.
His Chelsea stats this season before his move… played 13, scored 1, assist 0.
His Chelsea stats last season… played 12, scored 1, assist 0

I watched him play for Chelsea against Boro in the cup at the Bridge in January before his loan move. Since he had been linked with Wolves by then, I paid extra attention and had a great view in the lower tier of the away end as Chelsea were attacking that end first half when he started. His movement was decent at first, and his pressure caused the OG which started Chelsea scoring, but that’s it. After that, he did sweet fa. That was against a Boro defence that let in 6 goals that night. He was subbed second half for Gallagher who at least got 2 assists in half the time Broja was on.

I’m not sad we didn’t go all out for him.

Have to agree with all that, Sussex.

I watched him last season and was never impressed. He’s got the build and physique, but nothing much else. He wasn’t anything special during his loan spell at Southampton, either.

He’s done bugger all for Fulham since he went there, has he.

 

[North West Wanderer]

You always seem so absolutely positive on your opinion on our PSR situation when several football financial analysts have come up with different figures. You probably think I’m digging at you (sometimes I am because you come across as someone that if you found a tenner in the street you’d be annoyed it wasn’t £20) but the whole PSR bit is so murky even the experts seem confused. Ultimately we see the past in the companies accounts but not the present, only those at the club see those so I can’t fathom such surety in your belief on it. They had some top football finance expert on Talksport last week on about Forests position as he’d read the report and even he couldn’t understand it.

Genuine question, do you work in finance to understand it?

I’m 22 years in banking, and i don’t even try to understand it. I think it’s incomprehensible .

 

[North West Wanderer]

To be fair, the reason for lying is quite clear, as they don't have to spend money.

Also, we did have problems, there's no doubt about it. But we solved those problems by having a massive sale and clear-out of all the high earners.

To do all that and then claim a £39m loss is the bit that doesn't add up.

i think it’s fair to say there’s been a monumental **** up somewhere, to leave us in this positions.

what i will say as a more general point, is there’s a lot of “look at me” posts on here recently, which is hilarious and unnecessary in equal measure. i’ll endeavour to make sure i don’t do the same if i have in the past.

Even I admitted we were at least one short in January up top, everyone could see it.

There’s absolute extremes on here and this thread shows them at their absolute worst. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of all this.

a defeat or a couple of bad performances makes this place unbearable. a win or two, and it’s half as busy with more moderate views.

Fosun are not perfect, but there’s no conspiracies, no ipad issues, just a small squad doing their best.

 

[Ned]

I’m 22 years in banking, and i don’t even try to understand it. I think it’s incomprehensible .

I’ve got an ok understanding and have zero understanding of the PSR figures. I don’t see how people can look at the same figures and come up with different conclusions, it fries my brain and I don’t even pretend to have an opinion on it.

 

[Ned]

Made me laugh listening to e&s podcast yesterday Liam Keene insisting he’s seen the accounts personally - yeah sure you have Liam.
The 2.7m was based on 17th place finish so we are obviously not going to finish that low and could have risked a low loan fee in January imo
having said that I get why they didn’t want to but also get why some are angry about it especially with the injuries.
no excuses for not backing Gary in the summer though I don’t think any one will be accepting of that.

Him and Judah are absolutely adamant that they’ve seen them and categorically say they had no money at all. I just don’t see why the club would show them anything in depth at all, they’d have shown them anything that supports their stance.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

That's more nonsense from Hobbs because it all comes back to the PSR.

As I keep explaining, this '£2.5m from the limit' cannot be right. It can't be. You're all able to look at the figures but they're banking on the fact a) you don't want to and b) you don't really know what they mean.

Then, when the figures do come out in 12 months time, they'll be hoping people don't care because hopefully we're doing well, and they'll spin it, such as highlighting a £113m loss over a two-year period even though £33m can be deducted. They will also claim finishing higher in the league than we forecast changed everything way more than it actually did.

So for him to talk about honesty and fair communication is laughable, but I also acknowledge it's not his fault, he is doing what he is told.

To then have our situation compared to Leeds or Everton just proves how it's working and how some of our fans are. Asking for us not to have the worst squad depth in the entire English professional divisions (O'Neil's words, not mine) is not demanding signing after signing and risking our future.


As for some of the arguments, I don't really get them. Saying he didn't use Fabio or Sasa is obviously factually correct, but he didn't use them because he had Cunha, Neto and Hwang. Why would you use the two inferior players? Results proved we didn't need them.

But if this injury situation happened in November, they would have quite clearly played.

You could perhaps argue his 'overloading them' comments shows he should've rotated, but O'Neil will counter that by saying he expected new signings in January, and he would've made changes then.

With his comments, O'Neil clearly didn't want to throw the others under the bus. So when they left, he didn't want to start moaning and risk losing the positive momentum we had at the time. I don't agree with that stance, but it's clear why he did it.

There's also undoubtedly self-preservation from O'Neil with his reaction after Burnley. I'm not a fan of that, as I feel he should've stood up to them in January. However, again, you can see why he has done it because he is right. He does have the worst squad depth £ for £ in English football, and he will also know that it's not PSR related, hence his 'financial reasons' and 'not sure if it's the club or PSR' comments.

You can rightly argue he knew what he walked into, and if O'Neil was complaining prior to January then he would be in the wrong. Wolves offered him the job a few weeks before the window shut and he knew that there wouldn't be much business done in that period.

However, I cannot believe for one second that he went into January and agreed to having two strikers sold and none coming in. So, the situation has changed quite significantly and he is within his rights to moan about that.

I’m not going to get into the squad discussion again, but I’ll pick up the finances part that underpins your concerns about the story changing. The BBC very helpfully laid out a series of graphs with key financial statistics for each PL club. My broad takeaway from that is that we’re not all that different from a host of smaller PL clubs, and that includes some of the more recently promoted ones. As for finishing higher not having much impact. Well as the second link shows, if we finish 5 positions higher, that’s an additional 11m in prize money before considering any other factors like match day income or any more or less appearances on tv. You might say that difference is immaterial, but the tightness of many of the PL clubs finances shown in the BBC figures suggests otherwise.

But I’ll agree with a few other posters and say that in the end, it’s virtually impossible for anyone outside of the club or the PL to understand the PSR figures properly. There is just too much in the way of allowances and adjustments which may or may not qualify, and for the current season, we have absolutely no idea because the books are not even closed yet. I said in a separate post that I think as long as we have financial rules in place, then the league should be forced to publish the relevant figures once they’ve been reviewed and any disputes closed. There is not enough transparency in the process, and when the punishments involve sporting sanctions, then that cannot be right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522

Premier League prize money explained and how much each club will make from their final position

Beyond the final two relegation spots there are several positions yet to be confirmed - both Man Utd and Newcastle could still finish third

inews.co.uk

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I’m 22 years in banking, and i don’t even try to understand it. I think it’s incomprehensible .

I’m glad it’s not just me then! It’s why I can’t take fans talking in such certainty when they done see the current figures or the projections.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I’ve got an ok understanding and have zero understanding of the PSR figures. I don’t see how people can look at the same figures and come up with different conclusions, it fries my brain and I don’t even pretend to have an opinion on it.

glad it’s not just me. my better half knows her way through complicated accounts through her job, and she doesn’t even try to comprehend it either.

 

[QB Wolf]

I'm also in the no point trying to figure out the finances camp. I'm happy to believe things were tight and also think that gambling on league positions would have been stupid.

What is clear is that we're a long way behind the big clubs in terms of turnover and it's no wonder the club are exploring other avenues to build the brand, e-sports, music etc, what's funny is that in some cases the same people moaning about these activities, will be the ones demanding we spend more than we can afford.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I’m glad it’s not just me then! It’s why I can’t take fans talking in such certainty when they done see the current figures or the projections.

Because they choose to, believe the club lie on a regular basis and refuse to be anything but critical.

consequently the likes of us get called apologists because we are more moderate in our viewpoint.

 

[North West Wanderer]

I'm also in the no point trying to figure out the finances camp. I'm happy to believe things were tight and also think that gambling on league positions would have been stupid.

What is clear is that we're a long way behind the big clubs in terms of turnover and it's no wonder the club are exploring other avenues to build the brand, e-sports, music etc, what's funny is that in some cases the same people moaning about these activities, will be the ones demanding we spend more than we can afford.

exactly that. booo e-sports, spend more!!

 

[Madmalc]

I think Fosun have both realised and learnt from their successful ownership of our Football Club, Wolves:

• They are clearly becoming very pragmatic in their management, having learnt valuable lessons, whilst still avoiding relegation.
• We smashed our way out of the Championship under their ownership even after their first choice of Head coach didn’t go to plan.
• They fostered a relationship with a top agent, that allowed us to over achieve beyond all expectations with an early foray into European Football.
• They got carried away with this early success and spent money like a Big 6 club, without the guaranteed income of such a Club.
• They've successfully (even if a little brutally) rectified their spending.
• They've complied with the changing rules landscape of FFP and PSR so that potential points deductions haven't deviated them from their course to establish us as a BIG 6 Club.
• We now have a young coach who according to the press is the envy of some of the Big 6 clubs.
• We're safe for another season
• We can build and climb the Premiership league table for another year.

We've even become exciting to watch.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Because they choose to, believe the club lie on a regular basis and refuse to be anything but critical.

consequently the likes of us get called apologists because we are more moderate in our viewpoint.

I get people voicing an opinion (it’s a forum after all) but the displaying of opinion as solid facts on a subject no one apart from wolves know about, is just crazy to me.

 

[JOSWolf]

i think it’s fair to say there’s been a monumental **** up somewhere, to leave us in this positions.

what i will say as a more general point, is there’s a lot of “look at me” posts on here recently, which is hilarious and unnecessary in equal measure. i’ll endeavour to make sure i don’t do the same if i have in the past.

Even I admitted we were at least one short in January up top, everyone could see it.

There’s absolute extremes on here and this thread shows them at their absolute worst. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of all this.

a defeat or a couple of bad performances makes this place unbearable. a win or two, and it’s half as busy with more moderate views.

Fosun are not perfect, but there’s no conspiracies, no ipad issues, just a small squad doing their best.

To be fair I heard there is an ipad issue and Gary is changing manufacturers!

 

[North West Wanderer]

I get people voicing an opinion (it’s a forum after all) but the displaying of opinion as solid facts on a subject no one apart from wolves know about, is just crazy to me.

we probably all do it to an extent, but there are extremes!

 

[Rubberball]

I think Fosun have both realised and learnt from their successful ownership of our Football Club, Wolves:

• They are clearly becoming very pragmatic in their management, having learnt valuable lessons, whilst still avoiding relegation.
• We smashed our way out of the Championship under their ownership even after their first choice of Head coach didn’t go to plan.
• They fostered a relationship with a top agent, that allowed us to over achieve beyond all expectations with an early foray into European Football.
• They got carried away with this early success and spent money like a Big 6 club, without the guaranteed income of such a Club.
• They've successfully (even if a little brutally) rectified their spending.
• They've complied with the changing rules landscape of FFP and PSR so that potential points deductions haven't deviated them from their course to establish us as a BIG 6 Club.
• We now have a young coach who according to the press is the envy of some of the Big 6 clubs.
• We're safe for another season
• We can build and climb the Premiership league table for another year.

We've even become exciting to watch.

Would you like some magic beans?

They've got Fosun embossed on one side and a picture of Jeff on the other.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

One of the main issues as I see it is that football clubs in general thought the gravy train would just keep on running and any threatened sanctions would be financial in nature and therefore be a paper tiger in relation to the riches on offer. I don't think we can underestimate the shockwaves that the points deduction for Everton sent through the Premier League clubs and the ensuing panic that the realisation that they were actually going to have to comply with FFP or PSR rules has caused.

 

[wolfslair]

I’m glad it’s not just me then! It’s why I can’t take fans talking in such certainty when they done see the current figures or the projections.

The fact football finance experts cannot make heads or tails of it and punishments etc, shows this is a minefield of a thing to negotiate

 

[wolfslair]

I think Fosun have both realised and learnt from their successful ownership of our Football Club, Wolves:

• They are clearly becoming very pragmatic in their management, having learnt valuable lessons, whilst still avoiding relegation.
• We smashed our way out of the Championship under their ownership even after their first choice of Head coach didn’t go to plan.
• They fostered a relationship with a top agent, that allowed us to over achieve beyond all expectations with an early foray into European Football.
• They got carried away with this early success and spent money like a Big 6 club, without the guaranteed income of such a Club.
• They've successfully (even if a little brutally) rectified their spending.
• They've complied with the changing rules landscape of FFP and PSR so that potential points deductions haven't deviated them from their course to establish us as a BIG 6 Club.
• We now have a young coach who according to the press is the envy of some of the Big 6 clubs.
• We're safe for another season
• We can build and climb the Premiership league table for another year.

We've even become exciting to watch.

That is a fantastic post!!!! Balanced and fair!

 

[wolfslair]

exactly that. booo e-sports, spend more!!

I agree with the brand building, music and other streams of revenue. Makes complete sense.

But if you look into some e-sports for billion dollar games like EAFC (Formally FIFA), the prize money isn’t there. Some major e-sports teams cut back or even closed down operations.

For example hashtag united, one of the founding fathers of the competitive fifa scene bowed out as the returns weren’t there and they had some of the best players in the rankings on there rosters over their time in the scene.

But the leisure stuff and music I see being a great idea, e-sports is the only one I am a bit unsure on.

 

[Southdownswolf]

I agree with the brand building, music and other streams of revenue. Makes complete sense.

But if you look into some e-sports for billion dollar games like EAFC (Formally FIFA), the prize money isn’t there. Some major e-sports teams cut back or even closed down operations.

For example hashtag united, one of the founding fathers of the competitive fifa scene bowed out as the returns weren’t there and they had some of the best players in the rankings on there rosters over their time in the scene.

But the leisure stuff and music I see being a great idea, e-sports is the only one I am a bit unsure on.

With e-sports I don't think FOSUN are looking at it from a prize money point of view. It's solely about branding like the leisure and music, getting our name known throughout the world. The Wolves badge is a very distinct logo, people see that and there's no mistaking it's tied to the club. The bigger it can get in China, Japan, Korea etc then the bigger possibilities down the line.
Teams like Hashtag United didn't have a brand to build on.

 

[wolfslair]

With e-sports I don't think FOSUN are looking at it from a prize money point of view. It's solely about branding like the leisure and music, getting our name known throughout the world. The Wolves badge is a very distinct logo, people see that and there's no mistaking it's tied to the club. The bigger it can get in China, Japan, Korea etc then the bigger possibilities down the line.
Teams like Hashtag United didn't have a brand to build on.

Hashtag United have a massive brand!

They have more YouTube and X followers than many premier league clubs.

They also have adidas make them bespoke kits that not even prem football teams get.

They have some commercial deals that are quite substantial.

They don’t run on any debt and are completely self sustaining. Unlike many clubs in the pyramid.

Believe me, their “brand” is massive!

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

i think it’s fair to say there’s been a monumental **** up somewhere, to leave us in this positions.

what i will say as a more general point, is there’s a lot of “look at me” posts on here recently, which is hilarious and unnecessary in equal measure. i’ll endeavour to make sure i don’t do the same if i have in the past.

Even I admitted we were at least one short in January up top, everyone could see it.

There’s absolute extremes on here and this thread shows them at their absolute worst. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle of all this.

a defeat or a couple of bad performances makes this place unbearable. a win or two, and it’s half as busy with more moderate views.

Fosun are not perfect, but there’s no conspiracies, no ipad issues, just a small squad doing their best.

You spent most of January arguing with anyone who criticised Fosun/the approach and then you would say things like 'we could do with a striker in an ideal world'. And now you claim we were at least one short. If you thought that, we wouldn't have argued in January, as you'd just be agreeing with people who said it

There's no extremes whatsoever. My post is probably the most extreme about the PSR but you've admitted you don't know enough about it.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Because they choose to, believe the club lie on a regular basis and refuse to be anything but critical.

consequently the likes of us get called apologists because we are more moderate in our viewpoint.

The figures are laid out for us on this.

The only way we're breaching the rules, or getting close to, is if we lost £39m for 23/24.

You're trying to make it more complicated than it is. They're saying after doing everything we did in the summer, we're still on course to lose £39m. That's it.

That's all you have to decide whether is true.

If you don't want to do that, fine. But please don't make out like I'm asking you to budget for the country.

You have our revenues, you have our amortisation, you have our wage bill from last season, you have our players sold. It's really not that difficult to say we will not be posting a £39m loss for the 23/24 season.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Also, this thread sums up exactly why they will get away with it.

Lots of Wolves fans who all just shrug their shoulders and can't be bothered to look into it. That's not a criticism by the way, we have jobs, it's time consuming, it's boring etc.

But they're banking on that attitude and in a years time if we've had a good summer, spent a bit, nobody will really care when the accounts come out and show that they've lied (apart from SBK who will be calling for Jeff and Hobbs to be sacked )

 

[QB Wolf]

Would you like some magic beans?

They've got Fosun embossed on one side and a picture of Jeff on the other.

You can get them in the supermarket, next to the we want Fosun out T-Shirts and the tin hats!