Why this season has been a disaster

[Deleted member 3751]

Wont make too much difference if we are in League 1 though surely ?

We'll it'd help with FFP to rebuild a side at least!

 

[Berkswolf]

You can break the transfer record signing Gladon, doesn't make it a good idea. Cav and Costa have been our most successful signings but IMO neither are actually worth 7 or 13 mill.

And yet so far Spurs and liverpool have both been linked with bidding for Costa with a fee of around £30 million being quoted. This would suggest your evaluation of players worth is none too good.

 

[Rednal Wolf]

We'll it'd help with FFP to rebuild a side at least!

Whos going to build it ? As long as Fosun put misguided trust into an extremely under qualified Thelwell we will not progress . As long as they make poor choices they are to blame for the demise of our football club .

 

[Deleted member 5242]

It's quite simply one big collective **** up of colossal proportions!

From the lack of recruitment/investment at the end of the Morgan era and a half built stadium...
The last ditch management appointment of the vastly underqualified Zenga after failing to land Lopetegui
The scattergun panic summer recruitment (still clueless to why this happened)
Butti bouncing around the dugout
The lack of recruitment in the Jan transfer window despite no striker scoring since August!

The list is endless...there is no single answer to a **** heap of problems! We could have lived with one or two of the above but in hindsight its no surprise we are a mess!

 

[fev123]

And yet so far Spurs and liverpool have both been linked with bidding for Costa with a fee of around £30 million being quoted. This would suggest your evaluation of players worth is none too good.

Sorry, didn't realise rumours appeared in the accounts. You realise that you can only make that statement after they've spent that, it's not actually happened.

 

[fev123]

Why? You're obviously naive enough to take a press conference at face value so you need to wise up mate.

Lopetegui had the choice of us or Spain, the deadline for his decision on Spain was running out, we hadn't completed the takeover. "Oh, Julen, do you mind turning down your national job? We think this deal is actually going to go through". Naive again by the looks of it. What would you have done? Sign an agreement with Wolves if you knew your national team were interested? Of course not. When push came to shove he couldn't refuse the Spain job 'just in case' the Wolves deal went through. Had the deal gone through when it was supposed to though, he would've been our manager.

Jackett was always going to get replaced, Zenga was a bad choice. From then, they've listened to the people at the club, the people who know English football, acted on it, and we are where we are. We had 30 games left when Zenga got the bullet and we're now worse off, looking over our shoulders with a handful of games to put it right and no idea where the next win is coming from. The team has been largely made up of the 'old guard', the backroom staff are the old guard... the Chinese really aren't the problem

So you're saying its not the Chinese, just all the decisions the Chinese have made?

 

[RosehillWolf]

Blame lies totally with Thelwell and Lambert. We keep using players that are L1 standard at best, which is EXACTLY why we are heading there
Every man and is dog has known for months that we need a striker , a midfielder and a centre half...moreover a leader on the pitch
We have signed none of them.... and we will go down because we are totally inept off the pitch as well as on it

 

[WolfLing]

My thoughts in general.....

1. Chinese Arrogance. To think it's so easy as to walk into a club and change everything wholesale and expect magical results. I do think if everybody involved was pulling in the same direction that may work but in our case there were many factions who barely knew each other (managers, coaches, players, board).

2. Who's actually signing players? There seems to be a totally shambolic approach to signing players, with certain players never even getting a game. I get the sense (and who knows) some decisions were made by Thelwell, Mendes, Zenga, Lambert, Shi. You end up with this ridiculous smorgasbord of players who don't complement each other, know each other, fit a clear pattern of play. This also means there are a number of players arriving that the manager doesn't know a lot about so you had Zenga having to give players games just to have a look at them and find out if they had it. How on earth can you build a winning team working that way?

3. Lack of REAL investment. Fosun have singularly failed to splash the cash on any players that are the proven article.

4. Sacking too early. The club should have learned from the Dean Saunders Debacle that there is no magic pill unless there is a TOP TOP manager available. If we'd got big Sam all well and good but PL is not that big a step up from Zenga.

5. Square pegs in round holes. Even managing a kids team I'll look at a player and decide his strengths and say you're a finisher, you're a workhorse, you're creating etc. For too long we're playing players out of position and losing our balance. For me its simple, we need a left footed left back if you want to play a right footed winger; one can cut inside and one can cross from the byline. Against Birmingham we've no width with Costa suddenly playing on the left and Doherty uncomfortable going outside him. Add to this Coady at right back, Edwards at DM, Weimann at right wing its a mess. Bodvarson and Dicko are both grafters but it's plain to see since Afobe left we've not got a finisher. Just have a pattern of play and play players in their natural position.

6. No balance from either manager. In Zenga's case there was a lack of understanding how to keep the defence tight but at least we attacked. In Lamberts case its too cautious (see below).

7. Lambert reminds me more and more of Mick. Its not enough "PUTTING A SHIFT IN" and packing the team with workhorses and grafters. Alf Ramsey took Nobby Styles and Alan Ball to a park and showed them a dog fetching a stick, he told them they are the dogs and the ball is the stick. Your job is to get the ball and give it Bobby Charlton because he's a better player than you. That's what you need, a balance between graft and creativity. We seem to have slacked off all of our creative players except Costa and then wonder why we can't break teams down, the other team just boots Costa every time and we're out of ideas.

Everybody at the club needs to get on the same page, because when I think of above its a lack of leadership at the very very top thats the problem. Fosun/Shi need to have a clear idea and put good people working together in key areas of the club. Just spouting on all the time that we deserve better isnt going to cut it.

Can simplify this to....

• Too many changes too quickly
• Rubbish players

 

[those were the days]

FOSUN were unfortunate that the move for Lopetegui fell through although whether he'd have been the answer is debatable. I suspect he may have struggled similar to Solbakken four years ago personally.

For me, I also think the Jackett U-turn and sacking was a bad mistake so soon before the start of the season, as was bringing in so many new players all at once. I can understand why FOSUN did all this but it was naive. I said back at the summer, and maintain, that Jackett should have been given to Christmas, allowed to bring in 3 or so quality players and replaced before the January transfer window if he wasn't delivering. Bringing in Zenga was a disaster and a cursory glance at his cv suggested it was only going to end one way.

The way FOSUN have managed the club post-Zenga leaving has been much more sensible imo and it's the staff and players at the club who've failed them badly since then, particularly over the last month or so where results have been woeful, after encouraging signs of progress over Dec and Jan.

I hope there's a serious inquest going on at the club as losing 5 consecutive games in the manner we've done (including to the likes of Burton, Wigan and Birmingham) in the space of a month is unacceptable and the fans have been badly let down. I don't think sacking anyone is the answer (and would be counter-productive before the summer) but there are quite a few people at the club who need their feet held up to the fire, players and staff alike, and lessons need to be learnt quickly and a siege mentality adopted for the rest of the season.

 

[merseawolf]

The season has been a rollercoaster of a ride so far. Hold on tight i feel 2 wins coming. 1-2 on Saturday and 1-3 on Tuesday. Things will look much better this time next week.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

bearing in mind KT said when he appointed PL that he would 'get the results that would push us up the table' you can see why Fosun are not happy with him. Factor in 27M spent, most new signings binned off & now we're stuck with the serial strugglers who don't seem to improve with age, despite having multiple chances that others don't get & I'd be rather miffed too

 

[Woburn Wolf]

You can break the transfer record signing Gladon, doesn't make it a good idea. Cav and Costa have been our most successful signings but IMO neither are actually worth 7 or 13 mill.

I think you will find Costa is worth a lot more than £13m when he is sold in the summer.

 

[Tring Wolf]

Where to start?!

1. The timing of the takeover and the failure to land Lopetegui (and his backroom staff).

2. Following on from this, the neglected state of the squad at the time that the takeover did happen meant that FOSUN overcompensated in the number of players that they felt we needed (partly understandable given they were there to witness the friendly displays against Port Vale and Swansea - our matchday squad on that day just a week before the season was relegation cannon fodder).

3. A lack of cohesive strategy in our Summer spending, with no clear lines of accountability (again, I give FOSUN a bit of a pass on this given they only had 4 weeks to try and get things done). Missing out on top targets such as Luisao, Alfie Mawson and Chris Martin didn't help.

4. The appointment of Zenga. Out of left-field and no logic behind it. Considering his previous track record and the fact he had no pre-season, he didn't do as badly as I anticipated.

5. The injury to JDB against Brentford. In that game (and the preceding Newcastle one), Zenga had belatedly found his best side, formation and combinations. The injury to JDB meant we had no recognised striker and we lost any momentum that was starting to build.

6. Horrendous individual mistakes from our back four (Iorfa, Batth, Stears).

7. The removal of technically talented (but unproven) new players (Teixiera, Saiss, CBJ, Prince) to return to those 'triers' who had previously proven that they weren't capable of a promotion challenge from this division.

8. The failure to bring in a goalscorer in January, or players who would walk straight into the first team (despite Lambert telling us we would only be targeting those sorts of player).

9. The injuries to Cavaleiro, Mason and now Ronan depriving us of a lot of our guile and attacking threat.

10. Lambert's inability thus far to find a style of play that is suited to breaking down teams who sit back and allow us to have possession. I was actually stunned at just how far we have regressed in our style of football over the last month.

11. Our horrendous habit of conceding late, late goals, which I believe has now cost us in excess of 10 points.

 

[Deleted member 4594]

Can simplify this to....

• Too many changes too quickly
• Rubbish players

Well said!
The biggest reason for this appaling season is RECRUITMENT.
13 players signed and not one decent CB or striker.
The fact we are regularly starting with 6 or 7 of the league 1 side is unforgivable.

 

[those were the days]

Where to start?!

1. The timing of the takeover and the failure to land Lopetegui (and his backroom staff).

2. Following on from this, the neglected state of the squad at the time that the takeover did happen meant that FOSUN overcompensated in the number of players that they felt we needed (partly understandable given they were there to witness the friendly displays against Port Vale and Swansea - our matchday squad on that day just a week before the season was relegation cannon fodder).

3. A lack of cohesive strategy in our Summer spending, with no clear lines of accountability (again, I give FOSUN a bit of a pass on this given they only had 4 weeks to try and get things done). Missing out on top targets such as Luisao, Alfie Mawson and Chris Martin didn't help.

4. The appointment of Zenga. Out of left-field and no logic behind it. Considering his previous track record and the fact he had no pre-season, he didn't do as badly as I anticipated.

5. The injury to JDB against Brentford. In that game (and the preceding Newcastle one), Zenga had belatedly found his best side, formation and combinations. The injury to JDB meant we had no recognised striker and we lost any momentum that was starting to build.

6. Horrendous individual mistakes from our back four (Iorfa, Batth, Stears).

7. The removal of technically talented (but unproven) new players (Teixiera, Saiss, CBJ, Prince) to return to those 'triers' who had previously proven that they weren't capable of a promotion challenge from this division.

8. The failure to bring in a goalscorer in January, or players who would walk straight into the first team (despite Lambert telling us we would only be targeting those sorts of player).

9. The injuries to Cavaleiro, Mason and now Ronan depriving us of a lot of our guile and attacking threat.

10. Lambert's inability thus far to find a style of play that is suited to breaking down teams who sit back and allow us to have possession. I was actually stunned at just how far we have regressed in our style of football over the last month.

11. Our horrendous habit of conceding late, late goals, which I believe has now cost us in excess of 10 points.

What a starting XI! Hard to disagree with any of those. Good to see you didn't include a false nine to keep everyone on their toes. I'd add a couple of additional reasons onto the subs bench!

Sub 12: The fact we start games even worse than we end them. All too often this season we've conceded the all important first goal, particularly at home, and then we lack the guile and creativity to get back into games.

Sub 14: We should have taken the plentiful transfer budget and brought in 3-4 high quality, proven and established players down the spine of the team rather than the scattergun approach adopted.

 

[Derby Wolf]

To give them credit, Fosun made it clear their ambition so no-one should be expecting failure. But you have to make that happen, having so many people that barely know each other pulling in separate directions is a recipe for chaos. When Ferguson arrived at Utd he had control of EVERYTHING, you need the buck to stop somewhere. We've too many chiefs.

Nonsense.

SAF was close to getting fired after doing nothing for his first three years, it was only when he won the FA Cup in 1990 he kicked on.

Nobody can plan for the national team coming in for your first target who has already agreed in principle to join. The biggest criticism of Fosun is they didn't have a clean sweep of everybody behind the scenes but given the timing of the completion it's not surprising it hasn't happened.. yet.

The fact is, Fosun like nearly all new owners are having a few teething problems. Abramovich needed more than a decade to win the Champions League, it took City a few years after the Sheik rocked up to win the League.

If anything we're a micro version of City at take over, they were bought out in August and were used to triers like Ben Thatcher and Darius Vassel. Suddenly they start throwing bids around for all sorts of players and spend £32m on Robinho and smash the Prem transfer record.... but they still stutter to a poor finish in mid table.

Now, swap Vassel and Thatcher with Doherty and Edwards, swap Robinho with Costa. Swap August with July 22nd and you have Wolves.

 

[fev123]

I think you will find Costa is worth a lot more than £13m when he is sold in the summer.

I hope we do turn a profit on him and it will turn out to be shrewd business if we do. But lets hope he's committed enough to keep us in this league before he leaves.

 

[reanswolf]

How can you excuse Fosun for the mess we're in? It's their actions that have led us to our current position.

They make the decisions at the top and the buck stops with them.

They're in danger of of surpassing Laurel & Hardy for sheer incompetence.

You mean like appointing a manager who continues to expect DE to fulfill a CM role ?

 

[Perton Wolf]

In no particular order the following reasons come to mind the most...........

1) Jeff Shi doesn't have any experience in running a football club which means he's been unable to set a new direction for the club to aim for, we need a CEO.
2) Thelwell is quite simply not a Director of Football. He's actually an Academy manager who was appointed into a DoF like position under the last regime (I say DoF like because Moxey still had full say) because he was the cheap and easy in house option.
3) Zenga was a ridiculous appointment.
4) Lambert is proving to be a tactical Dinosaur unfortunately. I guess we should've seen this coming though after how Blackburn lined up against us for the 0-0 classic at Molineux last season.

Plenty more reasons too but that covers most bases.

 

[Deleted member 3604]

The same reason it was a disaster towards the end of Morgan's tenure. Those trusted with developing a progressive football side are not good enough. There is no real correlation between money and success. The club won't progress without changes. How they find the right people is not our concern but the onus is on them.

 

[clifs]

Don't think he's a step up from Zenga at all.

 

[Paul76]

Because the blame doesn't lie at the door of Fosun, it's quite simple really

Is it?

Sacked KJ and gave the job to Zenga. This in itself is a ridiculous decision that is comparable to Terry Connor being given the job when MM was fired.

Wasting tens of millions of pounds on players

You mean like appointing a manager who continues to expect DE to fulfill a CM role ?

Nice try. I have better things to do than getting embroiled in another boring argument about Edwards in a thread with absolutely no relevance to the man.

 

[clifs]

Fosun are not to blame. Morgan stripped the playing staff to the bone. Fosun had to do something urgently. Zenga would have kept us in mid-table but was sacked because we weren't going to get promotion, now look what we've got.

 

[wolfofwolvesstreet]

Failure to clear out the old guard.

Playing the old guard.

Choosing hoofball and putting a shift in over playing football.

 

[Monkey Man]

Since the Summer FOSUN have proven to one giant expensive failure. I can't think of one decision they've got right.

I'll give them this Summer to address the disaster they are overseeing but if they **** that up i think we can safely say we were brought by idiots. I'm a little sick of them avoiding the blame to be honest, they put the clown Jeff in charge, nobody else. If he can't see all the dross underneath him then the blame sits at FOSUN's door for putting him in charge.

Frankly i think they brought us thinking it wouldn't be that hard and not that expensive to get to the prem. They really should have done a little more research.

 

[Summer_Wolf]

Fosun have to take some of the blame. When Lopetegui failed to materialise they panicked, and made a poor appointment in Zenga when what they should have done is left KJ in charge while they took their time to find a suitable replacement. It wouldn't have been ideal, but would surely have been better than rushing into a poor knee jerk decision like the one they made in the summer. They also have to take the blame for not getting the structure of the club right - why no appointment of a CEO to run things day to day when Moxey left? Why give Thelwell so much power? They weren't ruthless enough last summer - they kept the hangers on from the Morgan regime and naively thought they'd be up to scratch.

On the pitch - the manager, coaching staff and players are to blame. Continuing to fail week after week, Lambert picking the same tired league 1 flops every game expecting different results. Wake up Paul - this core of players are taking us down. Make some changes and we might get somewhere!

In terms of spending, you can't knock Fosun. They've smashed our transfer record twice and put their money where their mouth is. I don't doubt their intentions, however I question how much direction there has been at the club since they took over. I trust however that they will have learnt a lot from this season and make the necessary changes in the summer. They have to surely?

 

[Ironfistedmonk]

As said above Fosun have to take some of the blame, their lack of football knowledge has meant they have made some very bad decisions, the existing football "knowledge" already within the club takes the majority of the blame for me, it's obvious that Mendes was a threat so when we stuggled under the oddly appointed Zenga they took their chance to re-establish their position within the club, and we have paid for it since being saddled with **** players on new contracts playing some of the most awful football I have ever seen.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

In the summer I want to see a quality CB brought in, a genuine left back, a midfield general & a striker who can put it in the onion bag & a decent replacement for Costa who will be off. Recruitment has to be spot on, no **** ups, no punts on unproven gambles, I want to see a team that plays football whilst doing the basics as well, that can see out a game, that has enough guile to break teams down at home & that has a winners mentality.

 

[yateleywolf]

Their biggest mistake was sacking KJ when they did and then giving the job to Zenga.

That is the main reason for our current predicament and the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain.

Fosun have been a disaster and they're learning the hard way in regards to British football and the Championship.

I totally agree with this they should of kept KJ if Zenga was the person parachuted in it was bizarre.Than the Butti thing on top.In highsight they would of never of done it but we are where we are and they just have to accept the mistakes and hopefully learn from it.

 

[WalsallWolf]

My thoughts in general.....

1. Chinese Arrogance. To think it's so easy as to walk into a club and change everything wholesale and expect magical results. I do think if everybody involved was pulling in the same direction that may work but in our case there were many factions who barely knew each other (managers, coaches, players, board).

2. Who's actually signing players? There seems to be a totally shambolic approach to signing players, with certain players never even getting a game. I get the sense (and who knows) some decisions were made by Thelwell, Mendes, Zenga, Lambert, Shi. You end up with this ridiculous smorgasbord of players who don't complement each other, know each other, fit a clear pattern of play. This also means there are a number of players arriving that the manager doesn't know a lot about so you had Zenga having to give players games just to have a look at them and find out if they had it. How on earth can you build a winning team working that way?

3. Lack of REAL investment. Fosun have singularly failed to splash the cash on any players that are the proven article.

4. Sacking too early. The club should have learned from the Dean Saunders Debacle that there is no magic pill unless there is a TOP TOP manager available. If we'd got big Sam all well and good but PL is not that big a step up from Zenga.

5. Square pegs in round holes. Even managing a kids team I'll look at a player and decide his strengths and say you're a finisher, you're a workhorse, you're creating etc. For too long we're playing players out of position and losing our balance. For me its simple, we need a left footed left back if you want to play a right footed winger; one can cut inside and one can cross from the byline. Against Birmingham we've no width with Costa suddenly playing on the left and Doherty uncomfortable going outside him. Add to this Coady at right back, Edwards at DM, Weimann at right wing its a mess. Bodvarson and Dicko are both grafters but it's plain to see since Afobe left we've not got a finisher. Just have a pattern of play and play players in their natural position.

6. No balance from either manager. In Zenga's case there was a lack of understanding how to keep the defence tight but at least we attacked. In Lamberts case its too cautious (see below).

7. Lambert reminds me more and more of Mick. Its not enough "PUTTING A SHIFT IN" and packing the team with workhorses and grafters. Alf Ramsey took Nobby Styles and Alan Ball to a park and showed them a dog fetching a stick, he told them they are the dogs and the ball is the stick. Your job is to get the ball and give it Bobby Charlton because he's a better player than you. That's what you need, a balance between graft and creativity. We seem to have slacked off all of our creative players except Costa and then wonder why we can't break teams down, the other team just boots Costa every time and we're out of ideas.

Everybody at the club needs to get on the same page, because when I think of above its a lack of leadership at the very very top thats the problem. Fosun/Shi need to have a clear idea and put good people working together in key areas of the club. Just spouting on all the time that we deserve better isnt going to cut it.

Very good, rational post. Agree with all those points, spot on in terms of order too with much emphasis imo on points 1 & 2

 

[goldeneyed]

The loss of Loptegui was the key moment. Zenga, a mate of Mendes, was a ridiculous appointment based on his past record, however nice a personality he had. The other key issue was the failure to clear out the mediocre to poor coaching staff and start again. I think the rot has set in from these poor beginnings. Everything about the club and the team and the signings and the tactics has been unbalanced and ill -thought through. £13m Costa but no striker signings? Incredible. Failure to buy a proper playmaker, incredible. Williamson, John, Silvio and latterly Mason and Cav almost permanently injured. The lumping forward philosophy that Lambert has sunk to epitomises the overall failure this season and if continued will lead to a truly shameful relegation.

 

[Fifty Niner]

The season has been a rollercoaster of a ride so far. Hold on tight i feel 2 wins coming. 1-2 on Saturday and 1-3 on Tuesday. Things will look much better this time next week.

I'll have what he's having!

 

[merseawolf]

I'll have what he's having!

San miguel tonight

 

[merseawolf]

San miguel tonight

Plus it beats being a miserable pesimist like most on here

 

[fev123]

Failure to clear out the old guard.

Playing the old guard.

Choosing hoofball and putting a shift in over playing football.

Agreed. Sad thing is we systematically drummed our best passers out of the team.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

So you're saying its not the Chinese, just all the decisions the Chinese have made?

We'll appointing Lambert and getting him to play hoof ball wasn't their decision. There was obviously unrest under Zenga, this was relayed to Jeff Shi by whoever, who then (probably) has someone like Thelwell in his ear "we need this, we need that, we need experience", so they listen to the people that have been at the club for years, in the English game for years and then take their advice. Which is something that everyone would've wanted them to do, you can't level blame at them for realising a mistake and taking advice off people who 'know the game' to quickly rectify it.

They were sold a complete basket case of a club, and to be honest I lay far more blame at the doors of the old regime, who asset stripped us to the point we couldn't field 18 senior players in a friendly the week before the season started.

Agreed. Sad thing is we systematically drummed our best passers out of the team.

You also can't blame the Chinese for this!

 

[Fifty Niner]

Plus it beats being a miserable pesimist like most on here

Certainly cheers the mood! After watching Huddersfield's second string putting in a shift to no avail, I couldn't help wondering how Dave Wagner has managed to bring some German know how to their first XI whereas PL hasn't brought diddly squat. Mind you, DW didn't did so good at B Dortmund.

 

[astraltrader]

The loss of Loptegui was the key moment. Zenga, a mate of Mendes, was a ridiculous appointment based on his past record, however nice a personality he had. The other key issue was the failure to clear out the mediocre to poor coaching staff and start again. I think the rot has set in from these poor beginnings. Everything about the club and the team and the signings and the tactics has been unbalanced and ill -thought through. £13m Costa but no striker signings? Incredible. Failure to buy a proper playmaker, incredible. Williamson, John, Silvio and latterly Mason and Cav almost permanently injured. The lumping forward philosophy that Lambert has sunk to epitomises the overall failure this season and if continued will lead to a truly shameful relegation.

This says it all for me as well.
Especially our failure to buy both a playmaker and a quality striker.
No team can hope to do well having neither in their team.
In addition I also agree that our failure to overhaul both our coaching staff and methods has cost us dearly.
If we are to avoid relegation then we need Cavaleiro, Mason, along with Saiss, back in the team as soon as possible.
Also I have hope that Dicko finally scoring might lead to a refound confidence.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Old regime let the club run down to the very bare bones (it was ridiculous the squad on the day FOSUN took over).

We missed out on Lopetegui and then couldn't persuade Silva.

Sale happened late making it difficult to correct the squad and manager, panicked with Zenga and some signings.

Promoted the old guard, ie Thelwell, when there should have been a complete clear out of the footballing side of things.

Then gave Thelwell the 'keys'.