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Why this season has been a disaster

fev123

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My thoughts in general.....

1. Chinese Arrogance. To think it's so easy as to walk into a club and change everything wholesale and expect magical results. I do think if everybody involved was pulling in the same direction that may work but in our case there were many factions who barely knew each other (managers, coaches, players, board).

2. Who's actually signing players? There seems to be a totally shambolic approach to signing players, with certain players never even getting a game. I get the sense (and who knows) some decisions were made by Thelwell, Mendes, Zenga, Lambert, Shi. You end up with this ridiculous smorgasbord of players who don't complement each other, know each other, fit a clear pattern of play. This also means there are a number of players arriving that the manager doesn't know a lot about so you had Zenga having to give players games just to have a look at them and find out if they had it. How on earth can you build a winning team working that way?

3. Lack of REAL investment. Fosun have singularly failed to splash the cash on any players that are the proven article.

4. Sacking too early. The club should have learned from the Dean Saunders Debacle that there is no magic pill unless there is a TOP TOP manager available. If we'd got big Sam all well and good but PL is not that big a step up from Zenga.

5. Square pegs in round holes. Even managing a kids team I'll look at a player and decide his strengths and say you're a finisher, you're a workhorse, you're creating etc. For too long we're playing players out of position and losing our balance. For me its simple, we need a left footed left back if you want to play a right footed winger; one can cut inside and one can cross from the byline. Against Birmingham we've no width with Costa suddenly playing on the left and Doherty uncomfortable going outside him. Add to this Coady at right back, Edwards at DM, Weimann at right wing its a mess. Bodvarson and Dicko are both grafters but it's plain to see since Afobe left we've not got a finisher. Just have a pattern of play and play players in their natural position.

6. No balance from either manager. In Zenga's case there was a lack of understanding how to keep the defence tight but at least we attacked. In Lamberts case its too cautious (see below).

7. Lambert reminds me more and more of Mick. Its not enough "PUTTING A SHIFT IN" and packing the team with workhorses and grafters. Alf Ramsey took Nobby Styles and Alan Ball to a park and showed them a dog fetching a stick, he told them they are the dogs and the ball is the stick. Your job is to get the ball and give it Bobby Charlton because he's a better player than you. That's what you need, a balance between graft and creativity. We seem to have slacked off all of our creative players except Costa and then wonder why we can't break teams down, the other team just boots Costa every time and we're out of ideas.

Everybody at the club needs to get on the same page, because when I think of above its a lack of leadership at the very very top thats the problem. Fosun/Shi need to have a clear idea and put good people working together in key areas of the club. Just spouting on all the time that we deserve better isnt going to cut it.
 
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fev123

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I think the Chinese Consortium were dealt a very difficult hand with the timing of the sale.
Don't think it has anything to do with arrogance, that is entirely unfair. They just need a full pre-season, as any new owner would in that same circumstance.

So sorry, totally disagree.

If they were dealt a difficult hand then what did they deal Zenga, a shambles. And guess who paid the price, who took the blame. Its never these owners who come out and say "we dropped this manager in it to a degree so we're going to stand by him"....they just sack him as though they've played no part in the bad results. That's arrogant.
 

WW1963

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I think the Chinese Consortium were dealt a very difficult hand with the timing of the sale.
Don't think it has anything to do with arrogance, that is entirely unfair. They just need a full pre-season, as any new owner would in that same circumstance.

So sorry, totally disagree.
They've had a pre season - 37 bloody games - and look where we are and how we play.
 

oldgoldheart

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I met LD before the ipswich game and he said they were aiming for top 2 this season and playoffs would be seen as poor. I said to him then that this was a much togher league than he/they realised so there is some substance to the arrogance comment
 

Starsky

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The damage Morgan and Moxey did has run very deep.

It has created a culture amongst the staff and longer serving players that mediocrity is enough.

This will be nigh impossible to change until the above have largely been cleared out.

All they have ever known is failure.
 
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Here's why it went so wrong.

The old regime hung on for as long as possible during the takeover, that derailed the most important part of Fosun's plan and we missed out on Lopetegui
 

fev123

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To give them credit, Fosun made it clear their ambition so no-one should be expecting failure. But you have to make that happen, having so many people that barely know each other pulling in separate directions is a recipe for chaos. When Ferguson arrived at Utd he had control of EVERYTHING, you need the buck to stop somewhere. We've too many chiefs.
 

fev123

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Here's why it went so wrong.

The old regime hung on for as long as possible during the takeover, that derailed the most important part of Fosun's plan and we missed out on Lopetegui

But surely if you're shrewd you get him to sign a pre-contract (subject to completion of the takeover). Fair enough if he was the man then get something signed and get him behind the scenes working on signings.
 
D

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But surely if you're shrewd you get him to sign a pre-contract (subject to completion of the takeover). Fair enough if he was the man then get something signed and get him behind the scenes working on signings.

It was us or Spain. There was no guarantee our takeover would go through, and I'd imagine they probably did have something agreed (on paper or in principle) but it had a deadline which we missed.
 
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Paul76

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Their biggest mistake was sacking KJ when they did and then giving the job to Zenga.

That is the main reason for our current predicament and the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain.

Fosun have been a disaster and they're learning the hard way in regards to British football and the Championship.
 

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The damage Morgan and Moxey did has run very deep.

It has created a culture amongst the staff and longer serving players that mediocrity is enough.

This will be nigh impossible to change until the above have largely been cleared out.

All they have ever known is failure.

This for me , apathy has been at our club for years and failure rewarded even recently with this crazy contract extensions where most of them should be lucky to have a job.

The summer regardless of the division we are in will need a huge broom and sweep the lot of them out the door , cant believe were seeing the likes of Saville and Evans on the pitch where we have a quality player like Saiss on the bench something stinks with the whole setup and I very much doubt Fosun will stand by and let it happen.
 
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They've had a pre season - 37 bloody games - and look where we are and how we play.
They haven't had a pre season at all they had 2 weeks before the season started not 3 months like everyone else. They tried to implement these other players but it's clear those around the club think Price, Edwards, Coady, Evans, Saville are better that Saiss, Prince, Tex, CBJ.

Clear the ****ers out & get Lambert to get his own team in.
 

fev123

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Their biggest mistake was sacking KJ when they did and then giving the job to Zenga.

That is the main reason for our current predicament and the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain.

Fosun have been a disaster and they're learning the hard way in regards to British football and the Championship.

Great point. And what did actually inspire that U-turn that meant KJ leaving? My guess is that he wasn't happy having 14 random players thrown at him?
 
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Paul76

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Great point. And what did actually inspire that U-turn that meant KJ leaving? My guess is that he wasn't happy having 14 random players thrown at him?

We'll never know, but it was like somebody was playing football manager on cheat mode when they first took over.
 
D

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Their biggest mistake was sacking KJ when they did and then giving the job to Zenga.

That is the main reason for our current predicament and the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain.

Fosun have been a disaster and they're learning the hard way in regards to British football and the Championship.

"That is the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain"

Zenga didn't spend it.

Timing of Jackett - irrelevant, he was going anyway
Appointment of Zenga - liked him but was a poor appointment and they've tried to rectify it by sacking him after a handful of games and appointing an experienced, British manager... that's working out just great


Oh, also forgot to slate them for breaking our transfer record, twice

Fosun aren't the problem
 

Rednal Wolf

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Fosun came in and were immediately out of their depth . The Zenga appointment was dire , rushed and poorly researched ( deep down we all knew he wouldn't last the season ) Lambert to my mind is merely here to keep us up ( and not doing well at it at all currently ) - he will be gone sooner or later - certainly at the end of the season .

For me Fosuns biggest issue is what to do in order to learn from their mistakes . We have to stay up - first major call is to stick or twist with Lambert - lose the next two and hes gone imho . If we go down I worry that Fosun will lose interest and we will be wallowing in League one for years to come .

At the end of the season a successful DOF of stature experience knowledge with the ability to turn a club round MUST be found and employed . In turn a top class manager must come in bringing his own team . Edwards Daley and all the backroom duds need to be shipped out . The scouting system needs a complete overhaul .
This club will not progress whilst Thelwell is here - Fosun put too much trust in him and this is why we are on the verge of relegation . A new manager will have a complete pre season and bring in decent players whilst culling the deadwood ( and there is alot of it in this squad )

This has been a wasted season AGAIN - other clubs get bought and turn things around quick sharp - Fosun have the clout but little idea on how to direct it
 

JOSWolf

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We need a clean sweep of backroom staff along with Thelwell and possibly Lambert. Club just seems far too cosy with certain player always getting new deals and getting picked week after week, despite being poor.
 
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Paul76

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"That is the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain"

Zenga didn't spend it.

Timing of Jackett - irrelevant, he was going anyway
Appointment of Zenga - liked him but was a poor appointment and they've tried to rectify it by sacking him after a handful of games and appointing an experienced, British manager... that's working out just great


Oh, also forgot to slate them for breaking our transfer record, twice

Fosun aren't the problem

How can you excuse Fosun for the mess we're in? It's their actions that have led us to our current position.

They make the decisions at the top and the buck stops with them.

They're in danger of of surpassing Laurel & Hardy for sheer incompetence.
 
D

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Great point. And what did actually inspire that U-turn that meant KJ leaving? My guess is that he wasn't happy having 14 random players thrown at him?

Nothing inspired it, everyone knew that Fosun wanted Lopetegui and it made Jackett's position untenable.
 

fev123

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"That is the sole reason tens of millions have been ****ed down the drain"

Zenga didn't spend it.

Timing of Jackett - irrelevant, he was going anyway
Appointment of Zenga - liked him but was a poor appointment and they've tried to rectify it by sacking him after a handful of games and appointing an experienced, British manager... that's working out just great


Oh, also forgot to slate them for breaking our transfer record, twice

Fosun aren't the problem

You can break the transfer record signing Gladon, doesn't make it a good idea. Cav and Costa have been our most successful signings but IMO neither are actually worth 7 or 13 mill.
 
D

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How can you excuse Fosun for the mess we're in? It's their actions that have led us to our current predicament.

Because the blame doesn't lie at the door of Fosun, it's quite simple really
 
D

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You can break the transfer record signing Gladon, doesn't make it a good idea. Cav and Costa have been our most successful signings but IMO neither are actually worth 7 or 13 mill.

Remind me of this post when we sell Costa for £20m+ in the summer
 
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Great point. And what did actually inspire that U-turn that meant KJ leaving? My guess is that he wasn't happy having 14 random players thrown at him?
There was no u turn despite what was said. Jackett was never going to be our manager this season once FOSUN took over.
 
D

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The damage Morgan and Moxey did has run very deep.

It has created a culture amongst the staff and longer serving players that mediocrity is enough.

This will be nigh impossible to change until the above have largely been cleared out.

All they have ever known is failure.
This has nothing to do with Morgan and Moxey.
 

fev123

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Nothing inspired it, everyone knew that Fosun wanted Lopetegui and it made Jackett's position untenable.


12.00 - "Kenny goes forward as the manager with the full support of Fosun."....They must have a different idea of "full support" than me
 

fev123

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We need a clean sweep of backroom staff along with Thelwell and possibly Lambert. Club just seems far too cosy with certain player always getting new deals and getting picked week after week, despite being poor.

It's far from Cosy, nobody in charge and nobody working together. Club needs a figurehead with a vision, be that Shi or Lambert or A N Other
 
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12.00 - "Kenny goes forward as the manager with the full support of Fosun."....They must have a different idea of "full support" than me

If you seriously believe that then you're not worth paying attention to and have no knowledge of football at all, obviously Ranieri's public endorsement from the Leicester board a couple of weeks ago passed you by.

Fosun had Lopetegui LINED UP. Lopetegui himself said he was lined up. Jackett, as a man of principle if nothing else, knew full well he wouldn't be around long once the takeover went through and wasn't going to be someone's lapdog who'd get fired as soon as the owner fancied it (Gary Rowett, anyone?).

Stop living in the clouds. Fosun had good plans that got derailed but they were always inheriting a mess. Could they have done a better job of it? Yes. Are they to blame for us being 20th in the Championship at the start of March? ABSOLUTELY NO
 

Oh When the Wolves

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It's quite simply the coaching.

We have seen we can play well and play the ball on the floor.

Too many changes, and more emphasis on closing down space again rather than players like tex willing and wanting ball on deck .
 
E

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Don't think the Chinese can be blamed for what's happening now. Yes they may have made mistakes and needed to address things but they, like us supporters, have been hood winked into believing Lambert and his back room cronies would sort the mess that Zenga created. They will hopefully now realise otherwise.

I genuinely believe they will have learnt a great deal of very harsh lessons and as long as Wolves can survive this season and FOSUN learnd from those lessons the future should improve.
 

Tony

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They haven't had a pre season at all they had 2 weeks before the season started not 3 months like everyone else. They tried to implement these other players but it's clear those around the club think Price, Edwards, Coady, Evans, Saville are better that Saiss, Prince, Tex, CBJ.

Clear the ****ers out & get Lambert to get his own team in.
I wouldn't Lambert another penny after how he bigged up Marshall! Said he knew how he played and he was a good bloke!
 

fev123

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If you seriously believe that then you're not worth paying attention to and have no knowledge of football at all, obviously Ranieri's public endorsement from the Leicester board a couple of weeks ago passed you by.

Fosun had Lopetegui LINED UP. Lopetegui himself said he was lined up. Jackett, as a man of principle if nothing else, knew full well he wouldn't be around long once the takeover went through and wasn't going to be someone's lapdog who'd get fired as soon as the owner fancied it (Gary Rowett, anyone?).

Stop living in the clouds. Fosun had good plans that got derailed but they were always inheriting a mess. Could they have done a better job of it? Yes. Are they to blame for us being 20th in the Championship at the start of March? ABSOLUTELY NO

FIrstly dont patronise me mate, its just your opinion not fact. The reality is that Lopetegui had taken the Spain job the best part of a week before this press conference so its up to them to sort out their mess. As above if you want to employ a bloke then get him to sign something then Spain would have to rule him out (but they didnt), even then there's plenty more fish in the sea but Fosun created the mess they are in by not having a clear structure at the club. I dont think they told Moxey, jackett, Edwards (Rob), Zenga, Thelwell, Butti or anyone involved with winning matches what the plan was because they didnt have one or dont want people to know.
 
D

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Don't think the Chinese can be blamed for what's happening now. Yes they may have made mistakes and needed to address things but they, like us supporters, have been hood winked into believing Lambert and his back room cronies would sort the mess that Zenga created. They will hopefully now realise otherwise.

I genuinely believe they will have learnt a great deal of very harsh lessons and as long as Wolves can survive this season and FOSUN learnd from those lessons the future should improve.

Don't really see how they can be blamed, when there was unrest around Zenga and the people here who 'know' football in this country suggested taking a different direction and getting a manager in who knew the league, that's exactly what they did. The fact that taking the advice of the people who know the league and know Wolves really hasn't worked, cannot be levelled at Fosun at all.
 

Tony

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If Fosun could sell for a profit now I think they would. As big as Man united they said! Loff
 

ManningtreeWolf

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I do agree. IMO If they could quietly bin us off , still saving face they would do.
 

Ewok vs Wolf

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I think Fosun are genuine in their aspirations for us but its been the same for years in that theres a lack of football knowledge at the club. Its a bit like Morgan the guy was a builder not a football genius. So again poorly advised or not advised at all regarding recruitment of players and managers.
 
D

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FIrstly dont patronise me mate, its just your opinion not fact. The reality is that Lopetegui had taken the Spain job the best part of a week before this press conference so its up to them to sort out their mess. As above if you want to employ a bloke then get him to sign something then Spain would have to rule him out (but they didnt), even then there's plenty more fish in the sea but Fosun created the mess they are in by not having a clear structure at the club. I dont think they told Moxey, jackett, Edwards (Rob), Zenga, Thelwell, Butti or anyone involved with winning matches what the plan was because they didnt have one or dont want people to know.

Why? You're obviously naive enough to take a press conference at face value so you need to wise up mate.

Lopetegui had the choice of us or Spain, the deadline for his decision on Spain was running out, we hadn't completed the takeover. "Oh, Julen, do you mind turning down your national job? We think this deal is actually going to go through". Naive again by the looks of it. What would you have done? Sign an agreement with Wolves if you knew your national team were interested? Of course not. When push came to shove he couldn't refuse the Spain job 'just in case' the Wolves deal went through. Had the deal gone through when it was supposed to though, he would've been our manager.

Jackett was always going to get replaced, Zenga was a bad choice. From then, they've listened to the people at the club, the people who know English football, acted on it, and we are where we are. We had 30 games left when Zenga got the bullet and we're now worse off, looking over our shoulders with a handful of games to put it right and no idea where the next win is coming from. The team has been largely made up of the 'old guard', the backroom staff are the old guard... the Chinese really aren't the problem
 
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