When losing this season!

[Bognor_Wolf]

Just seen elsewhere thought it would be interesting to discuss on here but Villa away is the only game we have equalised this season in the league.... That is an absolutely shocking stat.

I know this side struggles for goals but for a Premier League side looking to get into Europe that has to be a huge worry right? Either we really struggle to break down team or just really lack the hunger and character to get back into games or both.

Going forward does Lage have to be brave and really move away from the five at the back? And/or do we need to make massive changes to our forward areas next season I.e Jimenez being replaced for example.

Thoughts?

 

[wolfgar]

It might just be my natural pessimism, but I feel like I'm probably not the only one who thought 'that's it game over' as soon as Vydra scored. Hardly like we were playing anything like a top side, but I can't say I felt a great deal of expectation that we'd even make life particularly difficult for them, let alone turn the game round. That is very concerning and is one of the reasons why we really do need something of a refresh this summer.

If it were me I'd be signing a winger and a striker or two, bringing MGW back and praying that I can hang on to Neves and put someone decent in beside him. Hwang we've already committed to, but I'd only considering playing him centrally. He's pretty much a complete waste of a shirt out wide. Trincao, whilst clearly talented, has been a been a massive let down and signing him for £25 million in the summer would be sheer lunacy based on what we've seen.

 

[Bill McCai]

Gone behind in 15 games, lost 14, won 1 (Villa).

Premier League - Points after falling behind 22/23

This overview ranks the numbers of matches in the Premier League in the 22/23 season, in which a club fell behind and how many points were gained afterwards.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[Minimalist]

I said on the verdict thread, it never seems to work when he switches to his 442. Nuno’s 4231 worked far better for scoring goals.

Going forward I think we’ll either need a formation where we have 4 attacking players or if sticking with 3 they need to be higher quality.

 

[jrpb-3]

When we get the wingbacks forward with pace into space we create chances, when teams cut that off we end up playing in front of defense too much and struggle to break down teams that sit deeper and are well organised. Teams do that more when they get in front. This isn’t new it was similar under Nuno, previously we’ve had players who when on form could find that one quality move to change a game, Raul, Traore, Jota, with Raul off form we have Podence, Neto and Silva but none of them score enough

 

[WickedWolfie]

Gone behind in 15 games, lost 14, won 1 (Villa).

Premier League - Points after falling behind 22/23

This overview ranks the numbers of matches in the Premier League in the 22/23 season, in which a club fell behind and how many points were gained afterwards.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

One word for that: woeful. Worst in the PL?

 

[WickedWolfie]

I said on the verdict thread, it never seems to work when he switches to his 442. Nuno’s 4231 worked far better for scoring goals.

Going forward I think we’ll either need a formation where we have 4 attacking players or if sticking with 3 they need to be higher quality.

Some on here won't like this but perhaps Lage isn't half as clever tactically as he thinks that he is.

Oh, and before anyone says "he hasn't got the players" just look at the last Wolves manager who played his game regardless of the squad.... one Staale Solbakken....

 

[Jamwolf]

We only play an 80 minute game anyway, because every game we give 10 minutes away circling the half way line and then passing backwards.

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

We have a coach who studies the opposition and drills the players all week.

But there is a question mark as to whether he's a coach/no. 2 rather than a manager.

When you play well first half and go in at half time saying, same again lads, there's a slight problem....... the opposition manager will not say the same.

 

[Chris H]

Some on here won't like this but perhaps Lage isn't half as clever tactically as he thinks that he is.

Oh, and before anyone says "he hasn't got the players" just look at the last Wolves manager who played his game regardless of the squad.... one Staale Solbakken....

I think he’s proven very good at setting a team up tactically. The way he out thought Rangnick and Conte causing both to have to change their setups in the first halves because he’d worked them out and set us up to exploit them perfectly shows he’s a very intelligent coach.

What he’s lacking is the ability to read and change a game as it happens in front of him.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt I’d say as a relatively inexperienced first team coach the former is more important than the latter as the latter can be improved with experience. As others have said he could probably do with an experienced assistant next to him to help in those situations.

 

[sc91]

Great coach, great assistant, not a manager.

 

[marrs-guitar]

We just don't create enough dangerous chances against most half-competent defences, irrespective of whether we are ahead, drawing or behind. There is no effective plan on how to open up the opposition, and on the rare occasions we do, we are let down by the weak finishing ability.

The fact that we have played both Norwich and Burnley twice and not scored, or even really come very close to scoring (admittedly Traore did thump one against the bar at home to Burnley) speaks volumes.

Our expected goals is pretty dead on our actual tally (34.4 goals when we've actually scored 33), so it's clear that we're not low scorers merely as a result of terrible finishing or inspired opposition goalkeepers. The quality of goalscoring chances the team makes is simply poor.

If the basis of appointing Lage was to deliver a more attacking side, then it's hard to consider the appointment has been a success to date.

Our improved points return has been based on improving the defensive record (only 29 conceded, when the expected goals against is actually 45), though how much of that is due to a tactical masterplan and how much is due to simply having a much better keeper this season in Sa than Patricio is open to debate.

 

[Minimalist]

Some on here won't like this but perhaps Lage isn't half as clever tactically as he thinks that he is.

Oh, and before anyone says "he hasn't got the players" just look at the last Wolves manager who played his game regardless of the squad.... one Staale Solbakken....

I agree, the thing with trying to be clever tactically is it can fail as often as looking clever. I liked Nuno’s approach of mostly sticking to a well drilled system that suited the players. Also trying to keep a consistent team.
But at the same time if Bruno wants a different style from how these players played before he should be able to coach the players into it. Not need to buy a whole new team.

 

[Loefah]

Gone behind in 15 games, lost 14, won 1 (Villa).

Premier League - Points after falling behind 22/23

This overview ranks the numbers of matches in the Premier League in the 22/23 season, in which a club fell behind and how many points were gained afterwards.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Premier League - Points after falling behind 19/20

This overview ranks the numbers of matches in the Premier League in the 19/20 season, in which a club fell behind and how many points were gained afterwards.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

Two seasons ago we were 1st in the league with 21 points from losing positions. Quite the turnaround.

 

[Mighty Thor]

This single stat confirms what so many are saying. Bruno’s in game management is atrocious. He has no Plan b and seemingly not just no ability to change things when it’s not working….but no desire to change things.

A few weeks back he criticised hoever…he should look much closer to home when looking for people to criticise.

 

[WickedWolfie]

This single stat confirms what so many are saying. Bruno’s in game management is atrocious. He has no Plan b and seemingly not just no ability to change things when it’s not working….but no desire to change things.

A few weeks back he criticised hoever…he should look much closer to home when looking for people to criticise.

I said the same at the time. He apparently criticised players when things went wrong at Benfica too.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Remember, 5 at the back should be 3 at the back when in possession, with the WBs advanced and 5 other players in central midfield and/or attacking positions.

So "Five at the back" is not necessarily a more defensive organisation than the traditional four defenders. It's how you utilise the 4 or 5.

Although we talk about systems, there are great variations within each system. For example, Liverpool and Citeh play a nominal 4 3 3 but - thanks to the top quality of their squad - in practice their FBs are often playing as WBs if not wingers, with DCMs such as Rodri dropping in where necessary to give a "3 at the back" protection.

So I believe we can play an attacking 3CD system - if the tactics are right. Nuno's Championship approach of the diagonal ball to the WBs, largely ignoring creating chances centrally, worked for a time until the opposition got wise to it. Since then we've failed to adapt our tactics to compensate and create goalscoring chances. Although Bruno has shown some inclination to do so, eg by occasionally pushing Neves further forward, too often we end up with forwards isolated or unsupported, slow pace through central midfield, etc etc.

Losing 14 out of the 15 games in which we've been behind this season is a killer stat, suggesting to me at least that the main problem lies not with our formation but with our tactics during the game - to what extent that's down to the Head Coach or the players, who knows.

 

[jrpb-3]

Some on here won't like this but perhaps Lage isn't half as clever tactically as he thinks that he is.

Oh, and before anyone says "he hasn't got the players" just look at the last Wolves manager who played his game regardless of the squad.... one Staale Solbakken....

Yeah Staale got it wrong ttrying to play how he wanted to even though he didn't have the players. I don't think Bruno is playing exactly how he wants to because he hasn't got all the players to do that, he's said himself they still play a lot like how they did under Nuno as that's what the players know and what they are suited to.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I dont think its any of the above in particular
Its several things and really has been for months

Ever since we hit 40 points the whole team has lost its edge
We rarely win 50/50 challenges,we dont win second balls,we are too slow in transition,and we obviously dont score enough goals

Add all that up, and throw in some poor decision making from the players and the coach ,and its obvious we wont win many

We have good players,a system that makes us hard to beat,and imo a decent coach,we are just lacking that extra 5% that wins games
We are short in midfield and have been for 2/3 seasons,we have Raul probably 10% off his game,we have Neto, Semedo, Boly and Jonny coming back after long lay offs ,and, all bar Jonny it seems, need time to get back to where they should be

I dont see anything better on the bench either,much of the same

I know people will continually bring up Traore but thats not the answer either,4 good games a season wont change us much at all

The answer is simple we need 3/4 quality players to refresh the squad ,and then the others will not be as complacent about their own place in the team and hopefully we get that edge back

We have become one dimensional,and too set in our system to change with the current squad,so lets have some backing and a few new quality faces for next season or i fear we will struggle big time

 

[Fenrir_]

Yeah Staale got it wrong ttrying to play how he wanted to even though he didn't have the players. I don't think Bruno is playing exactly how he wants to because he hasn't got all the players to do that, he's said himself they still play a lot like how they did under Nuno as that's what the players know and what they are suited to.

He said himself that the players are more suited to how he wants to play than how they did without the ball under Nuno

Apologies for the Birmingham mail link

Bruno Lage aims subtle dig at former Wolves manager Nuno

Wolves are playing a more proactive style since Bruno Lage took over as manager

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Taking Villa out of it, we've been trailing for 462 minutes this season, and in that time we haven't scored a single goal. Nuno's side could always get back into games. It's the same players, different coach, and now they can't get back into games when they go behind when they were so good at it before this season. Well it can't be a Nuno hangover can it?

 

[Puddled Duck]

He said himself that the players are more suited to how he wants to play than how they did without the ball under Nuno

Apologies for the Birmingham mail link

Bruno Lage aims subtle dig at former Wolves manager Nuno

Wolves are playing a more proactive style since Bruno Lage took over as manager

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Taking Villa out of it, we've been trailing for 462 minutes this season, and in that time we haven't scored a single goal. Nuno's side could always get back into games. It's the same players, different coach, and now they can't get back into games when they go behind when they were so good at it before this season. Well it can't be a Nuno hangover can it?

Well we have no front line attack since Jimenez injured and we sold Jota to balance the books post Covid, well then Neto was injured.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

He said himself that the players are more suited to how he wants to play than how they did without the ball under Nuno

Apologies for the Birmingham mail link

Bruno Lage aims subtle dig at former Wolves manager Nuno

Wolves are playing a more proactive style since Bruno Lage took over as manager

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Taking Villa out of it, we've been trailing for 462 minutes this season, and in that time we haven't scored a single goal. Nuno's side could always get back into games. It's the same players, different coach, and now they can't get back into games when they go behind when they were so good at it before this season. Well it can't be a Nuno hangover can it?

Hes right in one way we do have more possession than previously,we just dont do enough with it
We are so slow in transition in the main
Previously we broke on the counter with speed and aggression,we also had prime Raul, occasionally a firing Traore, previously Jota then Neto,all have for one reason or another been missing for over a season
Its not an excuse for Bruno just how the cookie has crumbled unfortunately

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Yet under Nuno I seem to remember our record being very good in coming back from losing positions

 

[Bugsy911]

Hes right in one way we do have more possession than previously,we just dont do enough with it
We are so slow in transition in the main
Previously we broke on the counter with speed and aggression,we also had prime Raul, occasionally a firing Traore, previously Jota then Neto,all have for one reason or another been missing for over a season
Its not an excuse for Bruno just how the cookie has crumbled unfortunately

We have no pace or power in the front line , all 3 positions are currently a problem we simply don't have the players now for a quick counter attack and likewise don't have the creativity to unlock a packed defence , we need a complete overhaul of the front 3 and or review the system as it isnt working.

 

[Ches78]

Liz Truss GIF - Liz Truss Disgrace - Discover & Share GIFs

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

We have no pace or power in the front line , all 3 positions are currently a problem we simply don't have the players now for a quick counter attack and likewise don't have the creativity to unlock a packed defence , we need a complete overhaul of the front 3 and or review the system as it isnt working.

The front 3 yesterday was shocking and we lost the midfield battle we would be better playing 3-5-2 away from home put Cundle in like spurs away.

Hwang didn’t do a lot for 90 mins
Silva worked hard nothing came off
Raul looked lost chasing lost causes

 

[Puddled Duck]

Success built on recruiting the right players, at the right time.

Dan Ashworth going there is massive for them.

The front 3 yesterday was shocking and we lost the midfield battle we would be better playing 3-5-2 away from home put Cundle in like spurs away.

Hwang didn’t do a lot for 90 mins
Silva worked hard nothing came off
Raul looked lost chasing lost causes

The front 3 has never been the same since Jiminez had his injury and we sold Jota, then Neto subsequently went on the sick, I'm sorry Traore has been found out and despite showing glimpses never really contributed significantly in terms of goals or assists.

 

[jrpb-3]

He said himself that the players are more suited to how he wants to play than how they did without the ball under Nuno

Apologies for the Birmingham mail link

Bruno Lage aims subtle dig at former Wolves manager Nuno

Wolves are playing a more proactive style since Bruno Lage took over as manager

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Taking Villa out of it, we've been trailing for 462 minutes this season, and in that time we haven't scored a single goal. Nuno's side could always get back into games. It's the same players, different coach, and now they can't get back into games when they go behind when they were so good at it before this season. Well it can't be a Nuno hangover can it?

it's not all the same players though and we weren't great at it before. We had a lot of the same issues and didn't create may chances, but Raul or Jota would often pop up with one bit of quality and score and get us out of trouble, or we'd bring on Traore who's end product wasn't always great but when of form occupied defenders and left more space for others. We don't have Jota now and Raul is well off form, and the other forward players we have aren't working well together or scoring enough.

Yes on the whole Bruno has been more attacking and played we've had more possession, and when we get the space to attack with pace we've been better, but when we have to break down defensive teams the problems are the same

 

[KBWWFC]

Oh, and before anyone says "he hasn't got the players" just look at the last Wolves manager who played his game regardless of the squad.... one Staale Solbakken....

Solbakken was square pegs in round holes.

Can't really compare it to the current depth and variation within the squad (which is non-existant). He's not even playing "his way" (if the first three games are to be believe), we just don't have legs or movement in midfield and it cripples us.

Our play is too predictable, we're doing the same stuff with the same players that we were doing 4 years ago. Too easy to defend against with a lack of game changers throughout the squad.

 

[jrpb-3]

This season and part of last we haven't been able to play key players together for long periods, e.g. we've had injuries to one or other of Raul, Podence, Neto, Semedo, Jonny etc. and a few others I think we've struggled to get the front players to work well together as a unit.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Lost 14, won 1? Wow. That is shocking, hadn’t appreciated we were that bad at getting back into games.

The minute Vydra scored yesterday I stopped listening, knew we’d lost, and that was against Burnley - let alone one of the stronger teams in the division.

 

[thommo1984]

Blimey! I saw the 14 from 15 stat yesterday but I didn't realise we hadn't got ourselves back level and then gone on to lose the game. Literally not scored a single equalising goal all season outside of that mad Villa game. That's insane.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I think the criticism of Bruno is unfair, even if the record is incredibly bad.

It ultimately comes down to the players. We are a team that lacks pace and physicality, so when a team sits deep, which usually happens when you're losing, and we need inspiration, we don't have it.

When we need a player to feed a pass or beat someone, who does it? Traore could do the latter and I don't care if I'm boring people by going on about it, it's crucial to the way we played.

Yes, the problem has been a season-long one, but look at the games Traore played when we fell behind.

Leicester (A) - Absolutely battered them second half, Traore at fault for missing chances, but completely dominated and created chances when trailing.
Spurs (H) - Similar to above but Spurs gave more back. 17 shots in the second half!
United (H) - Same again, quite incredible that we didn't score, nothing wrong with the performance.
Brentford (H) - Truly awful, had a job done on us.
Villa (A) - The one win. Traore central to it as we somehow come back to win.
Palace (A) - Awful again, Traore comes on as a wing-back with 20 minutes to play.
Liverpool (H) - Concede with last kick.
City (A) - Like above, irrelevant to the discussion really as had ten men.

---After Traore---

Arsenal (H) - Pretty clueless against ten men, created very little.
West Ham (A) - Lots of possession, zero real chances.
Palace (H) - Awful, outplayed first half, barely created anything after.
Newcastle (A) - Another toothless display, did nothing.
Burnley (A) - Same again.

I have gone with the 13 times we've conceded first this season (could include Norwich to back the point up further in the cup), when we need to take the initiative and become the aggressor.

It's quite clear that without Traore we cannot do it. We have barely had a chance of note in those last five games after falling behind. It's mental.

Yet, with Traore, we complete our one comeback, which he was key to, and we play very well against United, Spurs & Leicester.

When you take into account he came on for 20 minutes as a wing-back against Palace, you could argue we have only had one bad game in five (Brentford) when Traore played in his proper position and we fell behind. Compare that to now.

So, this still remains one of the worst decisions I've ever seen from a football club. It would have been bad enough selling him for £20m at that stage of the season but to give him away for free was just so stupid.

Anyway, for solutions, we need to play Chiquinho more. He is someone who has that pace and unpredictability. He's nowhere near as good as Traore but he looks alright. When you're playing against a deep defensive line and packed defences, you need someone who can beat a man, speed things up and Chiquinho perhaps the best we've got for that.

Bruno can have criticism for that I suppose, but I understand why he's reluctant to throw on a youngster from Estoril who has hardly done a thing in the game.

Other than that, it is the players. No pace, no real quality, not enough numbers in the box = easy to defend against.

 

[Supadavewolf]

we need to play Chiquinho more. He is someone who has that pace and unpredictability. He's nowhere near as good as Traore

The sad fact is that we've not seen enough of Chiquinho to make a definitive judgment on his abilities.

 

[JOSWolf]

In game management by Lage is becoming a big problem in my opinion and one of the reasons why we never come from behind, apart from at Vile, to get a decent result. Our last game is a perfect example of this.

 

[JOSWolf]

The sad fact is that we've not seen enough of Chiquinho to make a definitive judgment on his abilities.

I'd start him on Saturday. He is direct and looks up for it from his brief appearances. Already has one assist, the same as Trincao, which sums Trincao up.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

The sad fact is that we've not seen enough of Chiquinho to make a definitive judgment on his abilities.

Agreed, but from what I've seen he is quick, direct and can take players on. Which nobody else can do.

 

[Supadavewolf]

Yes, let's also get Toti starting.

 

[sc91]

Yeah Staale got it wrong ttrying to play how he wanted to even though he didn't have the players. I don't think Bruno is playing exactly how he wants to because he hasn't got all the players to do that, he's said himself they still play a lot like how they did under Nuno as that's what the players know and what they are suited to.

So wheres the coaching? Are you trying to tell me that these players are unable to play any other system or be coached in any other way.

All down to the manager.

 

[Bill McCai]

The record when going a goal down is shocking. We are not strong mentally, the stats show that. Does that come from the players or the bench?