What are we doing?

[those were the days]

Everton will get into Europe under Nuno and his backroom team of that I have little doubt. They have a good opportunity to kick on and break the top 6 glass ceiling what with the new stadium and I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nuno picks up some silverware for them too. Some of the rationalising on here is very optimistic in my opinion (roll in the hahas from the usual suspects) but each to their own.

The stark reality is we've lost our best manager in 40 years and likely at least one of our two best central midfielders in the last 40 years will likely move on too. Aside from their quality on matchday, players like Moutinho and Neves are the ones who set the standard in training and I worry there'll be a vacuum of leadership too.

If we have an amazing transfer window (similar to 3 summers ago) we'll be fine of course and may, in time, rebuild stronger but there's a lot of risk for next season and we haven't had a good window for a long time now.

Lage is also a risky appointment. He did well for his first 12 months at Benfica but then it started to unravel. It could all work out fine here but there are a lot of risks. The current odds on Wolves and Everton for next season in various markets seem pretty reasonable to me in this context.

 

[Stourwolf]

I'd rather we bring in a £10m gem than sign a £30m+ bang average player. Think of Neto v Semedo. I'd remind you that when we first bought Jiminez in on loan he was only a bit part player at Benfica and he took a while to find his feet at Wolves. Jonny was not massively proven when he came in. Jota was not an established player. Cavaleiro, Costa and Boly all proved to be quality and relatively cheap signings.

We havent kicked a ball yet under Lage and you are writing us off already? Did you not witness some of the dross last season?

I’m absolutely not writing us off or Large next season.just worried to be honest the way the things seem to be going.
And yes I watched every game last season and to fair their were reasons for it.
I’ll be right behind Large and the team....just hope the board are.

 

[wolvesaywe]

Everton will get into Europe under Nuno and his backroom team of that I have little doubt. They have a good opportunity to kick on and break the top 6 glass ceiling what with the new stadium and I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nuno picks up some silverware for them too. Some of the rationalising on here is very optimistic in my opinion (roll in the hahas from the usual suspects) but each to their own.

The stark reality is we've lost our best manager in 40 years and likely at least one of our two best central midfielders in the last 40 years will likely move on too. Aside from their quality on matchday, players like Moutinho and Neves are the ones who set the standard in training and I worry there'll be a vacuum of leadership too.

If we have an amazing transfer window (similar to 3 summers ago) we'll be fine of course and may, in time, rebuild stronger but there's a lot of risk for next season and we haven't had a good window for a long time now.

Lage is also a risky appointment. He did well for his first 12 months at Benfica but then it started to unravel. It could all work out fine here but there are a lot of risks. The current odds on Wolves and Everton for next season in various markets seem pretty reasonable to me in this context.

Maybe keeping Nuno was equally risky. Our long term form was relegation standard

Nuno had mini-slumps but nothing to the extent like we had last season. There's no evidence in his managerial career he could have turned it around

Just playing devil's advocate as I never actually wanted Nuno out.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

Always love JPs articles on Wolves,top journo imo

He hints at Bruno having to work heavily under Fosuns remit,without the total control Nuno had,that seems reasonable if concerning a little
Nuno probably had too much control,but we dont want a yes man either,lets hope Bruno retains enough say in team matters to actually do his job,which i believe he will,he doesnt seem anyones patsy from what i have seen so far

I was surprised to read that we were bottom half of the league age wise,i always thought we were one of the youngest teams,but perhaps thats another reason Mouts and Rui could be going,with maybe Ruddy and Saiss heading the same way,time stands still for no man especially in football

Will losing Rui and Mouts be a disaster? No they can be replaced with more effective younger models,its like changing a car you have loved having for years,you just realise its only going to get worse the longer you keep it
Neves? Well will he be that big a miss? He was poor last season ,certainly by his standards,yes he had some decent games, but we need more from players of his high standing,and if his heart is set on a move then thank him and say farewell,at a decent price ofc

We cant stand still and we have done so for 2 seasons really,we are still playing players that played in the Championship season,in fact far too many,we need to refresh and reset,its the only way to progress,it may not come easy ,and we may not like it, but its needed

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Nuno has probably already said

‘Ruben - I want to to be my champions league general - I’ll ping you after the euros’

‘adama - that raise you wanted won’t be a problem when I kick out sigurdson on his ear - let’s continue your education and I can promise you champions league in a couple of years’

‘Pedro - I’ll ping you in January - just prove your fitness and make sure you don’t get injured again’

 

[Woodsetton Wolf]

Nuno has probably already said

‘Ruben - I want to to be my champions league general - I’ll ping you after the euros’

‘adama - that raise you wanted won’t be a problem when I kick out sigurdson on his ear - let’s continue your education and I can promise you champions league in a couple of years’

‘Pedro - I’ll ping you in January - just prove your fitness and make sure you don’t get injured again’

And if it’s the case of all three going to Everton and commanding big fees, I wouldn’t be to concerned at all.
Remember we haven’t had the luxury of seeing world class players come in and out of our team, for decades. Players come and go, we will have new heroes, don’t worry.

 

[Perton Wolf]

We have sacked our best manager in 40 years who is now about to take the Everton job.

We are selling the Portugal number 1 keeper.

We are getting rid of Joao Moutinho and our wonderkid Ruben Neves by all accounts.

I'm not being funny, but this seems mental?

Sentiment aside, Nuno served up some of the worst football I've ever seen at Wolves last season, despite having a vastly more talented squad than the likes of Lambert and Jackett who also served up dross towards the end of their tenures.

Moutinho is on £100K a week and is clearly on the decline, getting him off the wage bill would be a wise move. The same could be said for Patricio a bit too, made a lot of big errors last season. Either way, he's 34 and out of contract next Summer, best to recoup some of our outlay on him if we can.

I agree that selling Neves for a fairly average fee of 35/40million seems strange but clearly the money has dried up from FOSUN so I guess we've got little choice.

Some of the moves aren't as crazy as what you're making out, the squad and the club to a degree, needs a freshening up. We would've been battling to avoid the drop if Nuno had stayed, he won 3 out of his last 13 games. That's relegation form.

 

[Minimalist]

I think people can validly sit on either side of the fence regarding sacking Nuno and appointing Lage.

However what I think the club can be commended on is the timing. If it was to happen at least Lage has a summer to prepare and implement his changes. Making the change mid season would have been an even greater risk.

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Everton will get into Europe under Nuno and his backroom team of that I have little doubt. They have a good opportunity to kick on and break the top 6 glass ceiling what with the new stadium and I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nuno picks up some silverware for them too. Some of the rationalising on here is very optimistic in my opinion (roll in the hahas from the usual suspects) but each to their own.

The stark reality is we've lost our best manager in 40 years and likely at least one of our two best central midfielders in the last 40 years will likely move on too. Aside from their quality on matchday, players like Moutinho and Neves are the ones who set the standard in training and I worry there'll be a vacuum of leadership too.

If we have an amazing transfer window (similar to 3 summers ago) we'll be fine of course and may, in time, rebuild stronger but there's a lot of risk for next season and we haven't had a good window for a long time now.

Lage is also a risky appointment. He did well for his first 12 months at Benfica but then it started to unravel. It could all work out fine here but there are a lot of risks. The current odds on Wolves and Everton for next season in various markets seem pretty reasonable to me in this context.

Re your first paragraph I’m not so sure. Despite all the money they throw at it, at points in the season their squad was as threadbare as ours. I posted their bench in one match which had a sum total of 2 PL appearances (if I recall correctly).
they also have a few big time charlies, such as richarlason- we know Nuno doesn’t suffer fools gladly, so will he be able to go there and nurture the team ethic he did with us. The Jury is still way out for me.
Im sure Everton will spend, but as has been posted more times than I care to remember they have made HUGE losses over the last 3 years, and at some point FFP has to be a consideration.

at the start of last season Everton were deemed to have recruited well and were going to be a challenger to break the sky 6 - didn’t happen, just as it hasn’t every other season. Everton are without doubt a more established PL team, and you could argue a step up - but I’m not so sure.

with regards us. The only thing that has actually happened is that nuno has gone and Lage is in. Everything else is rumour, supposition and a big dose of self pity.
Will players leave - yes, probably. But believe it or not players leave every club.

I was surprised and disappointed Nuno left, but perhaps in hindsight (given the things to have come out, and the fact he’s clearly not that homesick) it is the right decision. I agree Lage is a Risky choice, but what manager isn’t?
Personally I’ll keep my powder dry with the doom and gloom and fretting about what will happen, until it happens. Pretty sure Fosun and the club have earned that for the last few years.

 

[Chris H]

Why do I keep thinking of Alan Curbishley and Charlton and how that ended up.

But it’s not necessarily about the manager you let go, it’s about getting the right replacement in.

Nigel Adkins had done a great job with Southampton and people questioned whether they made the right decision moving him on and replacing him with someone with no experience in England and not a great deal as a coach in general.

Turned out pretty well and he probably ended up taking them further than Adkins would have. That doesn’t mean Adkins hadn’t done a good job, but equally letting him go when most thought he’d had enough success to warrant stating wasn’t a bad decision in the end because they had a good succession plan.

It’s not really about the manager you let go, it’s about the succession plan.

We’ll find out in the next 6 months or so whether the succession plan was good enough or not.

 

[Deleted member yltz11841]

This exactly what I’ve been saying, but people on here don’t want to hear it.

it’s literally blind optimism at this point and that is absolutely 100% the wrong way to approach a season in the prem.

I wish you had said, I can’t recall you mentioning it at all

 

[Manic88]

It’s almost as if they club is trying to make sure we don’t have another 18 months of rotten performances

 

[Chris H]

This exactly what I’ve been saying, but people on here don’t want to hear it.

it’s literally blind optimism at this point and that is absolutely 100% the wrong way to approach a season in the prem.

Of course it’s blind optimism to an extent. We’re just the fans, we have no say over things really so all we have is optimism (or pessimism for some).

The club themselves aren’t going to be approaching the season simply based on blind optimism though, they’ll have done their due diligence and put a lot of work and thought in to this.

Whether you agree with their decisions or not, to suggest they’ve made them all on blind faith and a shot in the dark does them a disservice. Especially as overall across Fosun’s ownership they’ve developed us to the point we’re in a far stronger position than we’d been for a very long time prior to their takeover.

EDIT: Equally, by the way, I’d suggest it would also have been blind optimism for fans to believe Nuno would fix our issues and turn it around next season.

And I say all of this as someone who was very much Nuno in. I’ve just decided to trust in the club that if they believe it’s the right decision then I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and see how things develop before deriding them for things that haven’t yet happened.

 

[lets all have a disco]

I think the uncertainty around nuno the last 12-18 months and whether he was gonna leave for another club, cause Jorge was pimping him out for every job going was a major factor in the descion as well..... Maybe fosun knew it was coming so acted first..... We could be sitting here today with nuno, and all his staff, leaving us for Everton and our plans for the summer in tatters..... I think some people are lost with that notion sometimes... I think fosun knew deep down nuno wanted out anyway....he wasn't sacked as such as they say.. Pushed before he jumped yes.. No manager has been sacked and allowed to carry on for two more games.. If your gonna leave us Nuno then we might as well get a new manager in......

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Always love JPs articles on Wolves,top journo imo

He hints at Bruno having to work heavily under Fosuns remit,without the total control Nuno had,that seems reasonable if concerning a little
Nuno probably had too much control,but we dont want a yes man either,lets hope Bruno retains enough say in team matters to actually do his job,which i believe he will,he doesnt seem anyones patsy from what i have seen so far

I was surprised to read that we were bottom half of the league age wise,i always thought we were one of the youngest teams,but perhaps thats another reason Mouts and Rui could be going,with maybe Ruddy and Saiss heading the same way,time stands still for no man especially in football

Will losing Rui and Mouts be a disaster? No they can be replaced with more effective younger models,its like changing a car you have loved having for years,you just realise its only going to get worse the longer you keep it
Neves? Well will he be that big a miss? He was poor last season ,certainly by his standards,yes he had some decent games, but we need more from players of his high standing,and if his heart is set on a move then thank him and say farewell,at a decent price ofc

We cant stand still and we have done so for 2 seasons really,we are still playing players that played in the Championship season,in fact far too many,we need to refresh and reset,its the only way to progress,it may not come easy ,and we may not like it, but its needed

The key quote for me was ‘but this is an appointment who will be asked to work under Fosun’s terms’ considering some of the high profile exits, Dalrymple, Thelwell and now Nuno, I wonder whether getting a higher profile than Fosun is a career limiting move with Wolves. Don’t get me wrong, no one is bigger than the club, but anyone who appears to be increasing their profile too much is asked to get back in line or move on. Very much the Chinese way, the collective rather than the individual.

 

[OLDGOLD]

We have sacked our best manager in 40 years who is now about to take the Everton job.

We are selling the Portugal number 1 keeper.

We are getting rid of Joao Moutinho and our wonderkid Ruben Neves by all accounts.

I'm not being funny, but this seems mental?

Could go either way. I am all for some more exciting football and the squad needs freshening. Just need to make sure we don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If we lose key players, Lage has to be backed properly. The one person rubbing his hands in glee this summer is Uncle Jorge.... think how much he will be trousered this summer.

 

[Highlandwolf2]

There are very few of the current squad that would cause me upset if they went. Certainly not Neves, Patricio, Adama, Moutinho, Dendonker who have been poor on the whole for 12 months+, but with the caveat that the fees are reasonable and spent wisely. And if the manager fails to deliver Fosun will have him out of the door.

The tears for Nuno leaving may be misjudged. Certainly the slack I gave him about missing his family etc seem to be hog wash. The rumours months ago that Mendes was touting Nuno around PL clubs (which I took as total nonsense) may not have been as far fetched as it sounded - maybe.

Time for a change, yes. Hopefully Lage and revamping the squad and tactics can make it work.

 

[UEAwolf]

Everton will get into Europe under Nuno and his backroom team of that I have little doubt. They have a good opportunity to kick on and break the top 6 glass ceiling what with the new stadium and I wouldn't be overly surprised if Nuno picks up some silverware for them too. Some of the rationalising on here is very optimistic in my opinion (roll in the hahas from the usual suspects) but each to their own.

The stark reality is we've lost our best manager in 40 years and likely at least one of our two best central midfielders in the last 40 years will likely move on too. Aside from their quality on matchday, players like Moutinho and Neves are the ones who set the standard in training and I worry there'll be a vacuum of leadership too.

If we have an amazing transfer window (similar to 3 summers ago) we'll be fine of course and may, in time, rebuild stronger but there's a lot of risk for next season and we haven't had a good window for a long time now.

Lage is also a risky appointment. He did well for his first 12 months at Benfica but then it started to unravel. It could all work out fine here but there are a lot of risks. The current odds on Wolves and Everton for next season in various markets seem pretty reasonable to me in this context.

Agreed. It's groundhog day here at times. When Jota left, many posters giggled and said we were selling our 3rd choice striker and how it wasn't a big deal. He ends up scoring 9 in 19 for Liverpool and off to Euro 2020.

We've now sacked Nuno - cue more giggles from some about how stale we've become (despite two 7th place finishes and even last season, in 13th place - a position we could only have dreamed about under previous regimes). Nuno ends up going to a bigger club, moving to a purpose built stadium with larger aspirations. We've replaced him with a coach who has only been manager for 1 year out of his 20 + years as an assistant / youth team coach.

We're touting Neves, Patricio and Traore around - perhaps we would have done the same with Raul and Neto were they not injured.

No plans to renovate Molineux . We have not footballing experience in the boardroom, save for Scott Sellars. It's bizarre quite frankly and can only be reasoned by Fosun looking to cut costs / bring forward their exit strategy imo.

 

[Darvo]

I honestly thought that Nuno would have a few months off in the sun with his family. It’s obvious now that there must have been a significant falling out/disagreement last season. Probably explains Nuno’s ‘flat’ demeanour ... which was mirrored by our team’s performances.

Fosun seem to be coming in for some stick on here with some claiming that they’re just out to make money. This is laughable really ... take a look at the accounts since they bought the club. Unless you are one of the world’s elite clubs ... there is no money to be made as a football owner. Shi referred to this in the recent round of interviews... with Wolves now in the Fosun portfolio for keeps ... but with no end goal of an investment return.

Our fate is held in Shi’s hands. He’s obviously a smart fellow and understands the bigger picture of what is required to push the club into the next bracket. I just hope that he hasn’t under estimated the unforgiving nature of the premier league. Failure to properly strengthen the team could have catastrophic consequences.

On the whole though, I’m excited to see what the Lage era brings. Hopefully we can get back in the ground to witness it.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

I get that some people had enough of Nuno. Thinking we can do without Neves or upgrade on him is insane though.

 

[MolineuxMixer]

Closing down sale!

 

[Leigh72]

Teams change and evolve all the time, its football.
Squad refresh is badly needed IMO.

 

[top fox wolf]

I always like Johnny Phillips articles. Probably the best journo around when it comes to Wolves.

Hi woburn wolf .first meet johnny 4 years ago when sky came over to Wolverhampton casuals f c and did a piece on me and my two colleagues reffin a sunday league game with a combined age of over 200 years i was 68 at the time i was the youngest. its still available on you tube under oldest referees. any i digress johnny is a massive wolves fan and he thinks BRUNO could be just what we need at this moment in time .and yes am still reffing and getting good marks .good luck to BRUNO and his backroom team think we are in for one hell of a ride.C O Y W .x

 

[WetheralWolf]

You can make cases for a lot of it but it comes down to us lacking one or two senior faces who have experience in running a football club. I'd like to see a DoF at least as that could be our most important signing over the summer but I don't think it will happen.

One thing is certain, the next 2 months is going to be exciting and next season will be a an unknown and I can't wait!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Despite my reservations about the decision, it is undoubtedly a carefully thought out plan, made rationally with a new man lined up and a clear strategy. Chalk and cheese to Morgan sacking Mick. Lage will also have "too much power" if there is no effective DoF though.

 

[Cousins78]

God get a grip, only thing that has happened or about to happen is nuno going to everton and who is to say he will do a good job there, too many doom merchants on here

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

We have sacked our best manager in 40 years who is now about to take the Everton job.

We are selling the Portugal number 1 keeper.

We are getting rid of Joao Moutinho and our wonderkid Ruben Neves by all accounts.

I'm not being funny, but this seems mental?

I loved Nuno but forget results - the style, organisation, determination and passion were all lost last year. We were abysmal.

Rui wants to go by all accounts. See ya. Was good for 2 years but let in some stinkers last season.

Joao was fantastic for 2 years also but age really catching up with him. A shame but regardless of everything else going on we needed to move forward.

Be gutted if Neves went.

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

The powers that be have a cunning Baldrick plan to get us into the Europa Conference League. We'll finish seventh again and take our place amongst giants of world football such as Vardar Skopje and Žalgiris Vilnius.

You'd take that all day long and praise Nuno to the hilt if he achieved it!

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

This exactly what I’ve been saying, but people on here don’t want to hear it.

it’s literally blind optimism at this point and that is absolutely 100% the wrong way to approach a season in the prem.

So let's carry on like we did last season right? It was getting worse, not better.

 

[Wolfy McWolf-Face]

If Nuno goes to Everton it almost puts more pressure on Lage and Jeff. We’ve finished above Everton 2 out of 3 seasons and whilst we lost twice to them this season they were tight games (in comparison to others). If Everton push for Champions League and buy players like Coady, Boly, Traore and/or gazump us on Vitinha, RAN that’s not a good look for Jeff. Obviously Nuno could be a disaster there, they have a lot of ego players who are the type that Nuno isn’t keen on. If Nuno had gone abroad this issue wouldn’t arise.

my worrying that the desire to refresh the squad will lead us turning a potential Europa League squad into a mid table Championship squad. When that happens and we sack Lage even Eddie Howe and Steve Bruce won’t touch us

You know Nuno can't just take those players right? We have to agree to sell and on our terms.

As for RAN and Vitinha they are ours if we want. We have the option. Cant be gazumped.

One thing for sure is that adding the players you listed to the Everton squad will 100% not get them to the Champions League.

 

[rincewind]

You'd take that all day long and praise Nuno to the hilt if he achieved it!

And if we do we'll be above Everton (again).

 

[Deleted member 4456]

You'd take that all day long and praise Nuno to the hilt if he achieved it!

He did achieve it. I'm not unhappy with Nuno's efforts and don't think he should've been sacked, but alas, he's no longer with us. If we could achieve that under Bruno this season with all of the unknowns that come with his appointment, I'd be very happy.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I get that some people had enough of Nuno. Thinking we can do without Neves or upgrade on him is insane though.

I don't think there are many who think we can do without him without adequate replacement, despite being average last season. The key to it all is, when players go, what sort of replacements do we get?

 

[Stee]

Late face it, we’re going to wonder all summer if we are going to sink or swim.

We won’t have a clue until we’ve played the first ten games or so and then I expect we’ll either go full on Lance Corporal Jones or feel smug and wonder why we didn’t ditch Nuno for Saint Lage ages ago!

 

[wwbug]

We have sacked our best manager in 40 years who is now about to take the Everton job.

We are selling the Portugal number 1 keeper.

We are getting rid of Joao Moutinho and our wonderkid Ruben Neves by all accounts.

I'm not being funny, but this seems mental?

Moutinho , Patricio , Neves and Nuno are integral to our past success and an integral part of the Nuno package.
Crystal Palace saw the problem of this, the danger that may see a mass walk out if Nuno didnt get his way.

There are most likely three reasons for the change .

More attractive football to help the brand.
Cheaper football due to a halt on investment .
A breakdown in the relationship between Fosun and Nuno. (Probably over one or mat be both of the above )

 

[John de Wolf's hairdryer]

The key quote for me was ‘but this is an appointment who will be asked to work under Fosun’s terms’ considering some of the high profile exits, Dalrymple, Thelwell and now Nuno, I wonder whether getting a higher profile than Fosun is a career limiting move with Wolves. Don’t get me wrong, no one is bigger than the club, but anyone who appears to be increasing their profile too much is asked to get back in line or move on. Very much the Chinese way, the collective rather than the individual.

I agree with your first sentence. But I think there is one individual at Wolves who wants to be in charge at all times and doesn't seemingly gladly tolerate anyone with a different point of view on the way forward: Jeff Shi.

What if the slow souring of things in the last two years at Molineux is more down to Jeff Shi than anyone else? What if the person we most need to change due to his approach going stale is Jeff?

I guess we'll see just how much Nuno had really lost his way by what now unfolds at Everton. My fear is that a power struggle had developed between Shi and Nuno at Wolves and Shi had started to throw obstacles in Nuno's way with the signings made and not made, and the departures that were sanctioned.

I suppose Jeff will be in line for the chop from Guo should things with Lage not work out, especially if Nuno simultaneously reinvigorates the blue half of Merseyside.

 

[Beijing Wolf]

God get a grip, only thing that has happened or about to happen is nuno going to everton and who is to say he will do a good job there, too many doom merchants on here

This site can be unbearable at times.

It seems that every negative rumour in the press is believed as gospel, but anything positive is just dismissed out of hand!

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Five

That’s four too many!

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

This site can be unbearable at times.

It seems that every negative rumour in the press is believed as gospel, but anything positive is just dismissed out of hand!

I’m struggling to find much positive news. We’ve appointed Lage as manager which has been a relatively quick and seamless process. There are plenty of puff pieces about him. He has 20 years experience as a coach, as opposed to 20 years as a self obsessed player.

To counter that he hasn’t actually managed a whole season, he lost the dressing room at Benfica which led to him leaving. We are losing Patricio for Sa, the former hasn’t perhaps had the best of seasons but the latter allows the ball to rebound off him like a trampoline. Neves is going to be replaced by a 20 year old performing killer whale. Moutinho is going back to Porto to be replaced by another 20 year old nicknamed the octopus who didn’t tear up any seaweed at the recent U21 tournament. We’ve heard didly about RAN despite not having any other fit left backs - Marcal doesn’t count as he’s got the fitness of Kevin Ashley. Vitinha is apparently obliged to join us according to the player and Portuguese press but not according to UK press (Spiers). That coupled to not knowing whether Jimenez will come back as good, having an injury list like an episode of casualty.

So comparing the two things there are a lot more negatives to worry about than things to be positive about. I hope in the next 6 weeks things come together positively but in reality we’ll only know when we start again in August.

 

[forge]

The powers that be have a cunning Baldrick plan to get us into the Europa Conference League. We'll finish seventh again and take our place amongst giants of world football such as Vardar Skopje and Žalgiris Vilnius.