Victim FC

[Sussex Wolf]

The only one I can think of, off-hand, is Sa delivering a right-hook to a Leeds attacker on the first day of the season.

Not exactly how I’d describe it, but he was lucky not to concede a penalty. But had that been a Wolves forward going for the ball, then judging by the rest of the season we’ve had, it would be par for the course not to have been given.

 

[OLDGOLD]

That’s not how the law of averages works though. Things don’t even themselves out over a short period, but will require many, many iterations. Far more than you’d have over a single season, which is why the argument is entirely misleading and shouldn’t be given the time of day.

My opinion on this is there’s no conspiracy, just **** refs, bad luck in getting more than our fair share of **** refs and a fair bit of big team bias. That bias stems from weak refs wanting to avoid scrutiny from pundits in the media if they ever screw over a big side.

Sorry , but your second to last sentence dies not make sense. If there is big club bias then that IS a conspiracy. It is conspiring to put other clubs at a disadvantage.

 

[Fenrir_]

That’s not how the law of averages works though. Things don’t even themselves out over a short period, but will require many, many iterations. Far more than you’d have over a single season, which is why the argument is entirely misleading and shouldn’t be given the time of day.

My opinion on this is there’s no conspiracy, just **** refs, bad luck in getting more than our fair share of **** refs and a fair bit of big team bias. That bias stems from weak refs wanting to avoid scrutiny from pundits in the media if they ever screw over a big side.

I didn't say even out, I said we haven't had a single one and if it's solely bad refereeing, we should have had the odd one go for us at least. Unless you're suggesting we've been so unfortunate that it's the equivalent of tossing a coin and we just happen to have landed on the wrong side eight, nine times in a row which while possible is highly unlikely unless there's a weight to which way it lands. Although to be fair, a coin toss is 50-50, these decisions that have gone against us are not 50-50

My opinion is we're not liked by the refs, that helps form the basis of a bias, and as we're not a 'big' club, we get the thin end of the decisions. Salisbury's decision to award the goal was a **** take, as was his booking of Meslier for time wasting in the 102nd minute. No competent and 'fair' official would have made either of those decisions. Meslier would have been booked much earlier and the goal wouldn't have stood

 

[SuperGran]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638232493261201424

 

[SingleMalt]

Sorry , but your second to last sentence dies not make sense. If there is big club bias then that IS a conspiracy. It is conspiring to put other clubs at a disadvantage.

Refs being biased is not a conspiracy which is defined as:
A secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal.

There is no shady cabal at PGMOL hatching secret plots to send us down to the Championship. Suggesting otherwise is childish melodrama.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Refs being biased is not a conspiracy which is defined as:
A secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal.

There is no shady cabal at PGMOL hatching secret plots to send us down to the Championship. Suggesting otherwise is childish melodrama.

So why is there important decisions going against us in lots of previous games

 

[SingleMalt]

I didn't say even out, I said we haven't had a single one and if it's solely bad refereeing, we should have had the odd one go for us at least. Unless you're suggesting we've been so unfortunate that it's the equivalent of tossing a coin and we just happen to have landed on the wrong side eight, nine times in a row which while possible is highly unlikely unless there's a weight to which way it lands. Although to be fair, a coin toss is 50-50, these decisions that have gone against us are not 50-50

My opinion is we're not liked by the refs, that helps form the basis of a bias, and as we're not a 'big' club, we get the thin end of the decisions. Salisbury's decision to award the goal was a **** take, as was his booking of Meslier for time wasting in the 102nd minute. No competent and 'fair' official would have made either of those decisions. Meslier would have been booked much earlier and the goal wouldn't have stood

Good analogy there for the PGMOL toss**s who are ruining the game. And yes, I do think that most of this is down to bad luck and bad refs more than anything else.

I’d love to know how many other Premier League teams’ fans think that PGMOL have it in for them too. I suspect it’s most of the who aren’t Sky Six.

 

[SingleMalt]

So why is there important decisions going against us in lots of previous games

Bad luck, poor refs and bias towards big teams. None of which is part of a wider plan to relegate us.

 

[lobodelsur]

Not exactly how I’d describe it, but he was lucky not to concede a penalty. But had that been a Wolves forward going for the ball, then judging by the rest of the season we’ve had, it would be par for the course not to have been given.

You're right - it wasn't a right hook it was a left uppercut. Joking aside, looking at our goal reminds me that Neto must surely be played on the left where he is so much more effective than on the right.

 

[Contrarian]

Fair points, but when Newcastle had a ridiculous offside given against them to disallow a winner at Forest how did they react?

Much the same as we did when we had goals disallowed for ridiculous offsides! We've had several - Liverpool (twice, or is it 3?), Leicester spring to mind.

That Mail article on it being years since a player was sent off for swearing at the ref, at least some of the comments pointed out that Mario Lemina got sent off for running towards the ref. How would Newcastle react when a player got a second yellow, early in the game, for running towards the ref? Is it not at least mildly curious that we can't answer that question for any other club because it hasn't happened to any other club?

Similarly the shirt pulling prior to the Leeds goal. True, we've all seen many goals for all teams chalked off for infringements in the build up - sometimes very slight infringements. But I've never seen a goal allowed, with VAR being used, with a blatant shirt pull like that in the build up. If anybody knows of any, please mention it.

At least it shows that refs are not boring people. They are very creative at finding ways to interpret the laws when they feel like it! Their referring seems to be inspired by surrealism, or at least , a load of Jackson Pollacks.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Much the same as we did when we had goals disallowed for ridiculous offsides! We've had several - Liverpool (twice, or is it 3?), Leicester spring to mind.

That Mail article on it being years since a player was sent off for swearing at the ref, at least some of the comments pointed out that Mario Lemina got sent off for running towards the ref. How would Newcastle react when a player got a second yellow, early in the game, for running towards the ref? Is it not at least mildly curious that we can't answer that question for any other club because it hasn't happened to any other club?

Similarly the shirt pulling prior to the Leeds goal. True, we've all seen many goals for all teams chalked off for infringements in the build up - sometimes very slight infringements. But I've never seen a goal allowed, with VAR being used, with a blatant shirt pull like that in the build up. If anybody knows of any, please mention it.

At least it shows that refs are not boring people. They are very creative at finding ways to interpret the laws when they feel like it! Their referring seems to be inspired by surrealism, or at least , a load of Jackson Pollacks.

Newcastle responded at Forest by scoring again though, we responded at Southampton by coming back to win. If you can say, sod you that's a terrible decision but we'll win anyway then we'll be OK.

If we lose the plot, down tools and roll over then we'll end up in the Champ.

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638232493261201424

Finally some sense from the FA.

 

[Nivada]

Should be ashamed of himself whoever made this thread

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Newcastle responded at Forest by scoring again though, we responded at Southampton by coming back to win. If you can say, sod you that's a terrible decision but we'll win anyway then we'll be OK.

If we lose the plot, down tools and roll over then we'll end up in the Champ.

Do you actually think it impacts the players though? I don't.

We battered Leeds after the bad decision which was in the 9th minute. People are just influenced by the result. We did deal with the initial anger well, we just failed to score and Semedo and Jonny decided to make stupid mistakes! Unfortunately we know that's nothing to do with losing their heads, Semedo does it often and Jonny is just rubbish.

The only time we seemed to fully lose our heads was after the fourth. And, that's understandable because we were right & also it was the last minute so the result was done.

Nunes went mad after he was told by an official that he's pushed a linesman when he hadn't. Again, I understand that anger when someone is blatantly lying to your face.

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Refs being biased is not a conspiracy which is defined as:
A secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal.

There is no shady cabal at PGMOL hatching secret plots to send us down to the Championship. Suggesting otherwise is childish melodrama.

I dont know where you got that definition from although the word bias can be used in different ways. See below.
Mathematical bias is certainly not illegal yet although the wokes could decide tomorrow it is.
I worked in a casino in a different life and sometimes a dealer might get into a rut and the ball would land in a certain section more often. That is a bias.
I had the misfortune of finding women who turned me down as they were all biased.
You have shown your bias by bringing up a definition to suit your purpose that might not even be a true definition.

bias

1. the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[OLDGOLD]

Refs being biased is not a conspiracy which is defined as:
A secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal.

There is no shady cabal at PGMOL hatching secret plots to send us down to the Championship. Suggesting otherwise is childish melodrama.

I am not sure of a shady cabal, and I dont think there are anti Wolves plans necessarily, but If bias, conscious or not helps to maintain a status quo to protect the the elite, I am not sure what term comes closer to describing it than conspiracy.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I dont know where you got that definition from although the word bias can be used in different ways. See below.
Mathematical bias is certainly not illegal yet although the wokes could decide tomorrow it is.
I worked in a casino in a different life and sometimes a dealer might get into a rut and the ball would land in a certain section more often. That is a bias.
I had the misfortune of finding women who turned me down as they were all biased.
You have shown your bias by bringing up a definition to suit your purpose that might not even be a true definition.

bias

1. the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an…

dictionary.cambridge.org

Come on, I think we all know that people can be biased without it being organised, deliberate or criminal. People can have a like or dislike of something and that can affect their judgement. Conspiracy requires people, purpose, and likely planning and action. So while we can see referees showing bias in their decisions, that itself doesn’t prove or disprove conspiracy.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

I worked in a casino in a different life and sometimes a dealer might get into a rut and the ball would land in a certain section more often. That is a bias.

I would suggest that if your casino was employing dealers at a roulette wheel then it was more incompetence than bias, which brings us neatly back around to referees...

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

I would suggest that if your casino was employing dealers at a roulette wheel then it was more incompetence than bias, which brings us neatly back around to referees...

This happened to me once when I wasa novice dealer. This punter was winning a lot from me and the silly sod started bragging that he had never seen such an unlucky dealer which woke me up to what I was doing. I changed my spin and his luck changed. Good lesson for me.
Maybe if I was a football striker I might learn to put my foot through the ball with more conviction.

 

[BlahBlah]

Refs being biased is not a conspiracy which is defined as:

The classic book A Season With Verona had a great section on this, given that they had exactly the same problems in Italy.
It is incredibly difficult to find anyone who doesn't hold unconscious bias when you've grown up in a country where Juventus and Milan have been lifelong superclubs, just as Man U and Liverpool have in England.
It becomes ingrained into your personal pysche and no amount of training can remove that bias, even making you deny the evidence of your own eyes when you're a professional referee. They demonstrated that decisions on identical situations were biased away from "small clubs", they were just not treated in the same way but the referees could not explain why.

Big club does a foul : it's a bit careless, but they're too good to be cynical so it's probably an accident.
Little club does a foul : they're trying to pay dirty against a better team so i need to punish them.

Big club surrounds ref : these are world class players, maybe i'm wrong?
Little club surrounds ref: who are these ****ers, i'll show them who's boss.

The recommendation then was for foreign refs to go to other countries who would show less local societal bias, but i think that today even that is no good because it's a world game and all these clubs dominate the airwaves in all countries.

 

[Contrarian]

Newcastle responded at Forest by scoring again though, we responded at Southampton by coming back to win. If you can say, sod you that's a terrible decision but we'll win anyway then we'll be OK.

If we lose the plot, down tools and roll over then we'll end up in the Champ.

Yes, I think we've shown we have character. Forget that last match. It was a fluke, we were unlucky.

 

[SingleMalt]

I dont know where you got that definition from although the word bias can be used in different ways. See below.
Mathematical bias is certainly not illegal yet although the wokes could decide tomorrow it is.
I worked in a casino in a different life and sometimes a dealer might get into a rut and the ball would land in a certain section more often. That is a bias.
I had the misfortune of finding women who turned me down as they were all biased.
You have shown your bias by bringing up a definition to suit your purpose that might not even be a true definition.

bias

1. the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an…

dictionary.cambridge.org

My definition is for conspiracy, not bias. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes, I think we've shown we have character. Forget that last match. It was a fluke, we were unlucky.

We'll maybe, although as an example of making your own luck I'd say Jonny was unlucky that every one of his bloody awful mistakes was punished!

 

[Contrarian]

We'll maybe, although as an example of making your own luck I'd say Jonny was unlucky that every one of his bloody awful mistakes was punished!

Yes, he scored a spectacular goal and overall had a decent game (Leeds troubled us far more on the other side). Apart from the sunday league howler for their 3rd goal and the sending off, of course. Those spoiled his day a little.

 

[Cookyssweetleftfoot]

The classic book A Season With Verona had a great section on this, given that they had exactly the same problems in Italy.
It is incredibly difficult to find anyone who doesn't hold unconscious bias when you've grown up in a country where Juventus and Milan have been lifelong superclubs, just as Man U and Liverpool have in England.
It becomes ingrained into your personal pysche and no amount of training can remove that bias, even making you deny the evidence of your own eyes when you're a professional referee. They demonstrated that decisions on identical situations were biased away from "small clubs", they were just not treated in the same way but the referees could not explain why.

Big club does a foul : it's a bit careless, but they're too good to be cynical so it's probably an accident.
Little club does a foul : they're trying to pay dirty against a better team so i need to punish them.

Big club surrounds ref : these are world class players, maybe i'm wrong?
Little club surrounds ref: who are these ****ers, i'll show them who's boss.

The recommendation then was for foreign refs to go to other countries who would show less local societal bias, but i think that today even that is no good because it's a world game and all these clubs dominate the airwaves in all countries.

I do believe though that overseas umpires has resulted in far less bias in cricket.
I know it is a completely different sport, but when there were home umpires it could be ridiculous. I remember Strauss, who was seen as one of our key players at the time, given out three times in Australia in an Ashes series when replays showed he wasn’t out on any of these. Hick given out in South Africa when the ball wouldn’t have hit another set of stumps. There were certainly home biased decisions in England too.

I for one would love to see overseas referees in the Premier League as I do believe the level of our referees is the worst it has been. They also aren’t brought up loving the big six here. That said, the Australian at Southampton made one of the worst decisions of the year in the Lemina sending off.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Yes, he scored a spectacular goal and overall had a decent game (Leeds troubled us far more on the other side). Apart from the sunday league howler for their 3rd goal and the sending off, of course. Those spoiled his day a little.

On his heels for the first, they only attacked more down our right because Semedo gets forward and they had Gnonto there. Apart from the excellent goal he barely did anything right. I hate slagging our players off, but he was awful.

 

[BlahBlah]

I do believe though that overseas umpires has resulted in far less bias in cricket.
I know it is a completely different sport, but when there were home umpires it could be ridiculous. I remember Strauss, who was seen as one of our key players at the time, given out three times in Australia in an Ashes series when replays showed he wasn’t out on any of these. Hick given out in South Africa when the ball wouldn’t have hit another set of stumps. There were certainly home biased decisions in England too.

you need to lookup Shakoor Rana and Shakeel Khan. Two of the biggest cheats i've ever seen.

 

[OLDGOLD]

you need to lookup Shakoor Rana and Shakeel Khan. Two of the biggest cheats i've ever seen.

I remember Mike Gatting being a fan of the former......

 

[glorybox]

IMO opinion here the only constant in any game is the incopetence and inconsistency of Refs and VAR. Not just for us for all teams in all games - although becasue we are invested in Wolves obviously the decisions 'affect' us more (same for other teams too though I suppose).

Watching Forest - Newcastle game the other night, not withstanding the absolutely mind bending decsion to disallow the Newcastle goal for offisde, there were at least 3 tackles deserved of a yellow in the first 15 mins from Forest. Ayew particularly, from behind and scissored the Newcastle player. Yates committed foul after foul after foul, with nothing. It was all in the matchday thread and watching it (as a nuetral) I sat thinking if I was a Newcastle fan i'd be ****ing livid.

Some of the decisions we have had recently are bordering on ridiculous, and I can understand why people are now getting to the point where they are feeling 'victimised' and I can understand that. That is human nature.

Are they singling us out - probably not - but it does certainly 'feel' that way, lots of odd calls against us in a short space of time. If we'd had those decisons months apart, it probably wouldnt feel like victimisation - we'd just put it down to them being crap.

Last thing that I have noted after Saturday, and reaching for the tin foil as it does seem odd - is the removal of the footage showing the AR walking back into Nunes - it has been removed 'by the copyright holder'.
Now I have looked to try and find this footage again, and I cannot see it anywhere in the highlight packages available. In some they dont even shown the Nunes red card - just ends after the goal.

So that footage WAS available, because it was posted on Twitter - but now it is nowhere to be seen after being removed by the copyright holder. I'm not one generally for conspiracy theories, but I have invested in a new roll of tin foil for some new headgear.

Yates is a horrible scrote of a man.

 

[glorybox]

Much the same as we did when we had goals disallowed for ridiculous offsides! We've had several - Liverpool (twice, or is it 3?), Leicester spring to mind.

That Mail article on it being years since a player was sent off for swearing at the ref, at least some of the comments pointed out that Mario Lemina got sent off for running towards the ref. How would Newcastle react when a player got a second yellow, early in the game, for running towards the ref? Is it not at least mildly curious that we can't answer that question for any other club because it hasn't happened to any other club?

Similarly the shirt pulling prior to the Leeds goal. True, we've all seen many goals for all teams chalked off for infringements in the build up - sometimes very slight infringements. But I've never seen a goal allowed, with VAR being used, with a blatant shirt pull like that in the build up. If anybody knows of any, please mention it.

At least it shows that refs are not boring people. They are very creative at finding ways to interpret the laws when they feel like it! Their referring seems to be inspired by surrealism, or at least , a load of Jackson Pollacks.

No. He was influenced by what was going on around him from our players/manager/bench. Scandalous.

 

[lostwolf]

I dont know where you got that definition from although the word bias can be used in different ways. See below.
Mathematical bias is certainly not illegal yet although the wokes could decide tomorrow it is.
I worked in a casino in a different life and sometimes a dealer might get into a rut and the ball would land in a certain section more often. That is a bias.
I had the misfortune of finding women who turned me down as they were all biased.
You have shown your bias by bringing up a definition to suit your purpose that might not even be a true definition.

bias

1. the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an…

dictionary.cambridge.org

They were defining conspiracy.

There may well be some bias, I suspect there long has been some in favour of the big 3/5/6/(7?) but that's a long way from being a 'conspiracy', which is what some are alleging.

For me it's a sign of the times: a) many people want to be a victim / experience righteous indignation etc. as that's what's relentlessly celebrated, b) people are a tad paranoid, unsurprisingly when being constantly surveilled on and off line, and c) folk believe in conspiracies, again understandable when the hand of power is so remote and when they are put forward as mainstream explanations!

 

[lets all have a disco]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638168636073611264

 

[Sussex Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638168636073611264

Yep, saw that earlier. Hypocritical prat.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

I wonder how many teams Webb has apologised personally to besides us,i havent heard of any?
He has done so 3 possibly 4 times recently,if the refs had to do the same it just maybe would make them think twice

Audio enablement like in Rugby and cricket would make things so much better, even for the refs, as decisions would be explained on the spot in real time

We have fourth officials available to look at monitors pitchside and make calls to the refs why not use them?
As far as i can see they do little else except hold the sub board up occasionally

Ofc nothing will be done and next season will be just as bad
Oh wait do they use VAR in the Championship?

 

[Flump]

I wonder how many teams Webb has apologised personally to besides us,i havent heard of any?

Part of the reason for this whole discussion is that people, quite understandably, pay more attention to Wolves, and remember bad decisions against us, more than for others.

 

[Cookyssweetleftfoot]

you need to lookup Shakoor Rana and Shakeel Khan. Two of the biggest cheats i've ever seen.

Oh I remember them, but they were widely criticised too to be fair and there was a lot of animosity there.

That is why it was fantastic to see the appreciation the Pakistani public gave England in the recent series and great to see the series played in such good spirit too.

Neutral umpires have transformed the game for me and with all the money in the Premier League why aren’t they looking at paying the best officials rather than limiting it to those who are homegrown?

 

[derbyrameater]

Part of the reason for this whole discussion is that people, quite understandably, pay more attention to Wolves, and remember bad decisions against us, more than for others.

thanks,

They haven’t been apologised 4 times though, have any other clubs had so many apologies?

 

[SE10 Wolf]

thanks,

They haven’t been apologised 4 times though, have any other clubs had so many apologies?

Do we get to book PGMOL for surrounding us with apologies?!

 

[Welford Wolf]

If there is no conspiracy against Wolves how come not one other player has been sent off or booked for running towards the referee?

Also now the ridiculous Nunes red card has been dropped, the FA are charging us for contesting the decision which the FA now admit was wrong! Where is the discipline for the Linesman who missed a blatant shirt pull on Traore then falsely accused Nunes?

 

[Northbank cigarette]

I didn't say even out, I said we haven't had a single one and if it's solely bad refereeing, we should have had the odd one go for us at least. Unless you're suggesting we've been so unfortunate that it's the equivalent of tossing a coin and we just happen to have landed on the wrong side eight, nine times in a row which while possible is highly unlikely unless there's a weight to which way it lands. Although to be fair, a coin toss is 50-50, these decisions that have gone against us are not 50-50

My opinion is we're not liked by the refs, that helps form the basis of a bias, and as we're not a 'big' club, we get the thin end of the decisions. Salisbury's decision to award the goal was a **** take, as was his booking of Meslier for time wasting in the 102nd minute. No competent and 'fair' official would have made either of those decisions. Meslier would have been booked much earlier and the goal wouldn't have stood

The Leeds time-wasting started in the first half. There was an extended stoppage due to an injury towards the end of the half too. But just two mins of added time were granted at that stage of the match. I can completely see what people are/have come to the conclusion that we are simply 'not liked' by the authorities.