Verdict thread vs West Ham

[Krispy Kreme]

Ruben was MoM, but then I'm biased

That's what I said

 

[Krispy Kreme]

Trouble is Collins has at least one Stearman moment every game and it's not good enough at this level.

I think they're known as Sergio Ramos moments, because you know even the very best defenders have them.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I thought Collins had a good game, but i dont see how anyone can deny that yet again he made a huge blunder and we were lucky to get away with it. He's got to eradicate it from his game because good defenders just dont do that.

Good defenders do do it, just not as often, and frequently then rectify the error.

 

[Premier Quality]

Good clean sheet though, in which he played a massive part?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I thought Collins had a good game, but i dont see how anyone can deny that yet again he made a huge blunder and we were lucky to get away with it. He's got to eradicate it from his game because good defenders just dont do that.

I would call VVD a “good defender”, and I’ve seen him make mistakes. Come to think of it, I’m not sure I can think of a defender who hasn’t made a mistake to two.

 

[OsloWolf]

Good clean sheet though, in which he played a massive part?

Absolutely. He is winning a crazy amount of duels in and around the box.

 

[Ned]

I would call VVD a “good defender”, and I’ve seen him make mistakes. Come to think of it, I’m not sure I can think of a defender who hasn’t made a mistake to two.

People forget Collins’ age. I bet his haters can’t name many better 21 year old centre backs in the PL.

 

[Krispy Kreme]

People forget Collins’ age. I bet his haters can’t name many better 21 year old centre backs in the PL.

Maybe Fofana pre injury and Chelsea move, otherwise I can't think of any the lad is a colossus.

 

[steve vena]

Also I thought it was a much better atmosphere, amazing what a bit of belief can do

1st game this season, I was in the Billy Quiet...I thought half of them were dead lol. W6 upper.
After being in the Bully j2 for the last 4 seasons it was quite a surprise.

 

[Gromit]

What a star Nunes is gonna be. He clearly has the right attitude. He was here, there, every ****in where. Always showed for a pass, has the ability to take people on, fed the ball for the goal. OK the odd pass goes astray, but can't agree with anyone who says he was poor.

 

[Ned]

Maybe Fofana pre injury and Chelsea move, otherwise I can't think of any the lad is a colossus.

He was the one that sprang to mind when I typed. But yea, nobody else. Imagine Collins in a few seasons… absolute leader in the making.

 

[groundhogwolf]

Not a fan of Sa faffing around with it at the back, and the defence playing really dangerously round the edge of area, please stop that.

Guess this is the way JL wants them to play.

 

[Ned]

1st game this season, I was in the Billy Quiet...I thought half of them were dead lol. W6 upper.
After being in the Bully j2 for the last 4 seasons it was quite a surprise.

I was in W2 this afternoon. I think there was a rule around us that they have to leave on 80mins regardless of how nervy the game is becoming.

 

[Krispy Kreme]

Guess this is the way JL wants them to play.

Absolutely and it's one of Sas strengths, it's bloody nerve wracking but led to a great counter on one occasion.

 

[Incognito]

Made the goal.... ha ha ha... it was a poor pass that took a deflection to fall into Podence's path. Made the goal.... LOL.
Collins played well against a difficult opponent. Clearly you're with Stevie Wonder.

Collins was a bit cack, I'm afraid. Ironically, today, Kilman was the better of the two. So switched around in terms of recent performances.

 

[Royal wolf]

Still can’t believe Neves didn’t put Adama through at the end there

 

[MasWolf]

I would call VVD a “good defender”, and I’ve seen him make mistakes. Come to think of it, I’m not sure I can think of a defender who hasn’t made a mistake to two.

The difference is the consistency i think. Don't get me wrong, I really like Collins and think he's an excellent player, but it seems like every game we're guaranteed a blunder from Sa and Collins. We've been lucky so far!

 

[WWFC4EVA]

Beautiful finish by Podence!
FWAW /\_/\

 

[Sussex Wolf]

The difference is the consistency i think. Don't get me wrong, I really like Collins and think he's an excellent player, but it seems like every game we're guaranteed a blunder from Sa and Collins. We've been lucky so far!

I agree with that, and think that’s fair. At his age frankly I’m not surprised he makes the odd mistake, but on the balance of play, he’s a good defender and as he matures will get even better. There appear to be a few posters with an axe to grind over him, which is typical of this forum, and perhaps every football fan forum. We always have at least a few players which certain people pick holes in, even when they win MOTM as Collins did the other night.

 

[Incognito]

Not a perfect performance but nevertheless a great win today. I do think Julen made a mistake in not starting with Raul. That goal he had chalked off was a wonderful finish. He must surely start next game. First half we were guilty again of not getting enough bodies in the box to get a gold shirt on the end of several dangerous balls into the box. That needs to be sorted out, otherwise we will always be biting our nails at the end of games. As others have mentioned, Semedo was fantastic today. That interception in the first half! Nunes and Neves were more than half decent, despite the odd brain farts here and there. Tidy finish from Podence, otherwise he was not really at the races today. Good to see Cunha get a start and Lemina coming on, made some important interceptions. Happy wolfie tonight. Roll on Tuesday. Justice must be served!

 

[jim_boner]

Decent performance overall. Wouldn't start Hwang anymore, presses well but worthless other than that. Probably better bringing him on late to harry players. RAN looked good again. Better with Raul on as well. Lemina looks like he has been here a while, fitted in nicely, surely starts for Moutinho.

Thought moutinho played very well. One of our better players on the day.

 

[Lou Pine]

My verdict is I don’t think any other club in the league would let their team come out for the second half to the music we’ve trotted out to the last few weeks. Even motd commented on the muted atmosphere after half time. I’m not surprised after listening to that ****e. The Quo at the end as well! My word.

It’s as though us supporters don’t sing any songs that were once released as actual singles?! Or maybe it’s that no Wolves supporter has ever been professionally involved in a decent song either?!

As for the football, just shows what a proper coach can do with these very good players that we have.

 

[thommo1984]

I thought Collins had a good game, but i dont see how anyone can deny that yet again he made a huge blunder and we were lucky to get away with it. He's got to eradicate it from his game because good defenders just dont do that.

He’s a 21 year old lad, playing his first full season in the Prem. He’ll be absolutely fine.

 

[sillytuna]

First league game this season we deserved to win. I didn't think West Ham looked any different to previous matches other than a bit more toothless perhaps. They tried the same tactics again - let wolves dither about and grab them on the break and from mistakes. This time we got the goal and they couldn't answer, even though they gave us a nervous end.

We struggled in the same areas and had a real lack of movement towards and into the box at times. Cunha looks good but he's no number 9, while Hwang played well but offered no goal threat. The third forward, Podence, was very quiet but there when it mattered - and that's what none of our other forwards can do at the moment. If we get a goal it's still Podence getting them - we need other forwards to start scoring. Only RAN really looks any threat.

Team effort today but a couple of players did stand out. Inexplicably we saw Semedo actually attacking and we were to much the better for it. Jimenez looked the best he's been since the end of last season. Just perhaps there is a player still there for us, tho I did think old Jimenez would have taken traore's through ball better and got a shot off. So unlucky not to get that goal at the end.

Seen some criticism for Collins and Nunes. Collins was superb yet did make 2 very poor mistakes when all he needed to do was keep it simple. He has to cut those out. Nenes played well but a few times he was looking for runners, didn't get them, and just took it too far. We need more intelligent movement to help the midfielders out but he also needs to not tun it into 3 opposition players in tight positions.

What was also pleasing is we've stopped this obsession with going wide and chucking a bad cross in or always going backwards. Multiple times we tried other things - still not good enough but you can see the tactics have changed.

3 points, just about deserved. Didn't feel West Ham looked like a team who should be relegated but they also didn't look good. Everton, Bournemouth, Leeds and Southampton (until this week) look much worse to me. West Ham do look very stale though. They need to evolve or they still risk relegation this season or next. Time to sell Rice and evolve.

 

[Mugwump]

He’s a 21 year old lad, playing his first full season in the Prem. He’ll be absolutely fine.

I've said previously he's still learning, but we cant keep making that excuse forever. He's playing well enough,but he's got to cut out the glaring errors. That will be the difference between him being a Titus Bramble or a Rio Ferdinand. His age is irrelevant, if you keep making significant mistakes over and over its an issue and he is making more than he should. He would know it as well as anyone. Its exactly why we need an experienced center half to compliment what we have and help bring them along.

 

[Netherton Wolf]

We won, that is all, far too ****ed to give a verdict

 

[Mugwump]

I would call VVD a “good defender”, and I’ve seen him make mistakes. Come to think of it, I’m not sure I can think of a defender who hasn’t made a mistake to two.

They do, no player is mistake free, but even though i think Collins is getting better every week, he's still got that major stuff up in him right now ( and we also need to remember he isnt the only one ). People are too quick to jump on anyone who wants to bring that up imo. From my perspective i dont see it as bagging him, its just saying it like it is.

While i dont think he is playing poorly, what would we all be saying if that error cost us 2 points.

 

[Mugwump]

I agree with that, and think that’s fair. At his age frankly I’m not surprised he makes the odd mistake, but on the balance of play, he’s a good defender and as he matures will get even better. There appear to be a few posters with an axe to grind over him, which is typical of this forum, and perhaps every football fan forum. We always have at least a few players which certain people pick holes in, even when they win MOTM as Collins did the other night.

I dont think thats the case at all. You can be critical of something a player does without having an axe to grind. Seems some people are over sensitive of a little criticism.

 

[Fenrir_]

The difference is the consistency i think. Don't get me wrong, I really like Collins and think he's an excellent player, but it seems like every game we're guaranteed a blunder from Sa and Collins. We've been lucky so far!

Just need Collins to gradually cut them out, which he should do as he gets more experienced, he has a hell of a lot going for him. Sa is worrying with playing out from the back, he's playing a short pass to an opposition player every game at the moment!

 

[SA Wolf]

People forget Collins’ age. I bet his haters can’t name many better 21 year old centre backs in the PL.

Why do you call people with a different opinion to you 'haters'?

Collins does have a rick in almost every game. All players do. It;s just that at the moment most of his mistakes are magnified and often result in goals or chances to the opposition. Fwiw, I think Collins is a good player and has great potential, but he still has his daft moments (Grealish). I don't hate Collins, but possibly have a different opinion to you. This site is for debating all things Wolves and not everyone will agree about everything, but still seems to have people on here that don't understand that.

 

[Mugwump]

Why do you call people with a different opinion to you 'haters'?

Collins does have a rick in almost every game. All players do. It;s just that at the moment most of his mistakes are magnified and often result in goals or chances to the opposition. Fwiw, I think Collins is a good player and has great potential, but he still has his daft moments (Grealish). I don't hate Collins, but possibly have a different opinion to you. This site is for debating all things Wolves and not everyone will agree about everything, but still seems to have people on here that don't understand that.

Thats the thing that annoys me. Some posters on here cant seem to handle a player they might like getting a little criticism. They have to resort to the " hater " tag to anyone who is slightly critical for some odd reason.

I think Collins has been playing really well lately, but like it or not he's had that major rickett in him. The more he plays hopefully he will iron that out of his game, but i dont see the harm in a little criticism as long as its not abusive.

 

[Perton Wolf]

What a star Nunes is gonna be. He clearly has the right attitude. He was here, there, every ****in where. Always showed for a pass, has the ability to take people on, fed the ball for the goal. OK the odd pass goes astray, but can't agree with anyone who says he was poor.

Feels like some have already made up their mind about him because he had a few poor games under the PE teacher and Davis. He's largely been excellent since Lopetegui's appointment

 

[nomadwolf]

Centre-halves are a bit like goalkeepers, when it comes to mistakes...

...because of their position, any slip-up gets noticed more than other players mistakes.

Wish I was making mistakes in the EPL when I was 21.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Thought Semedo was excellent, out best attacking outlet in the first half and solid defensively for 90mins. He's deserved the criticism that has come his way this season but let's hope he has more displays like that now because if he does, he'll be a real asset for us.

 

[Mugwump]

Centre-halves are a bit like goalkeepers, when it comes to mistakes...

...because of their position, any slip-up gets noticed more than other players mistakes.

Wish I was making mistakes in the EPL when I was 21.

Thats a good point as well, and you do have to try to live with that when you are trying to help a young player develop. As long as you can see some progress i think its fine.

 

[Jamwolf]

We have to be able to break teams down when they're set up defensively. Just couldn't do it first half. In fact it took a breakaway to get the goal.
Another man in the box would help - I'd love to see Jimenez start with Cunha, especially at home.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

I was in W2 this afternoon. I think there was a rule around us that they have to leave on 80mins regardless of how nervy the game is becoming.

Welcome to the BWU! Yes, got to beat the traffic and get home for Strictly or whatever other toss is on early evening Tele! By the standards of the BW, yesterday's crowd was lively, mind you. Being knowledgeable old fogies, we get particularly incensed by ****e refs. So we gave Mr Scott a jolly good shouting at!

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Feels like some have already made up their mind about him because he had a few poor games under the PE teacher and Davis. He's largely been excellent since Lopetegui's appointment

Agree with this. Nunes, Neves, Lemina, Boubakar looks a great midfield engine room to me.

 

[Severnup]

A well deserved, hard fought victory. Great team effort and JL has started to instill confidence into pretty much the same team that Lage had. Think we will get much better when we start to climb the table as the threat of relegation eases. There will be blips but with more new players coming in and on yesterday's evidence I think we will be fine.

 

[Willywolf]

I've said previously he's still learning, but we cant keep making that excuse forever. He's playing well enough,but he's got to cut out the glaring errors. That will be the difference between him being a Titus Bramble or a Rio Ferdinand. His age is irrelevant, if you keep making significant mistakes over and over its an issue and he is making more than he should. He would know it as well as anyone. Its exactly why we need an experienced center half to compliment what we have and help bring them along.

I’d say he learnt from previous games as he wasn’t undone by a straight ball over the top, and didn’t get caught out of position after giving the ball away upfield.
I agree that he can’t have the ‘still learning’ excuse forever. I am honest enough to say I’ve been critical of his performances, but gracious enough to say I think he’s growing into a good premier league CB, just not an outstanding one… yet?
Thing is for me, I look at cb and see that they have their best years around 29-33 years old and am more prepared to accept that our players will make mistakes. Sometimes they’ll cost us, sometimes they won’t. A cb not making mistakes and being outstanding (like Dias for example) play for teams bigger than us.
With that said, I think we have seen enough so far to have hope that he’ll be more of a Ferdinand the Bramble (I bloody hope). He generally shackled Antonio well yesterday - a player that the much lauded Coady has struggled with over several years.
Agree with all posters saying he needs experienced support next to him; kilman is still relatively inexperienced too.