Today's Games 2022-23.

[Matt]

At least two established PL teams dropping this season, crazy really.

 

[JOSWolf]

Apparently not an official one as it deflected off Tarkowski. I am gutted because with that news and the VAR cancelling out of Schar's wonder strike it has cost me Fantasy Points ! I feel sure @JOSWolf will feel my pain !!!!

My pain is having both Shaw and Degea in my fantasy team tonight. Shambles.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Youtube "Hamrin against West Germany 1958" for a identical goal to Isak's effort there!

That's very topical. Who are you? Austin Powers? And you've just thawed out to tell us about the 50's?

The good news is you've missed a lot of Wolves ****. The bad news, we've won next to **** all while you were frozen.

 

[WickedWolfie]

My pain is having both Shaw and Degea in my fantasy team tonight. Shambles.

Serves you right for having anything to do with ManUre, even in fantasy football, lol....

 

[lobodelsur]

It has become all about organisation, gaining ground, winning set pieces, game management.

So true. Now the majority of teams in the PL are simply looking to survive to the next season. To do so they will break up play when the opposition has the ball, using any legal or illegal means at their disposal.

 

[Hot Fuss]

It’s genuinely a case now of being a well drilled team and finishing safe in the Premier League.

Bournemouth are absolutely awful. Totally uninspiring. Dreadful defensively, marginally better on the counter, but they have a decent shape.

Southampton were all over the place. Same as Leeds. Everton. Us under Lage. No shape, no hope.

You have to question the quality of this league when you see Villa in 5th.

Iv seen several posters over the last year or 2 tell us that premier league footballers are miles better now than they were 15-25 years ago. Absolute *******s.

 

[Scallywolf]

Villa have done well but Watkins and his purple patch has helped them massively

So has their new manager!

Them appointing Emery and us appointing JL have been season changing.

Villa were going nowhere and we were relegation favourites.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Bournemouth on -31 GD and now going 7 clear of the trap door.

Shows how utterly bonkers of a scrap this has been…

The 9 goal drubbing by Liverpool is the only reason their GD isn't similar to the other teams in the mix.

 

[Greeno]

Who ?

Leon Clarke

 

[TheConcourse]

Is it more that teams are cancelling each other out? The speed the game is played and the precision required, it's morphing away from the game it was 30 or 40 years ago. It has become all about organisation, gaining ground, winning set pieces, game management. And if a Haaland emerges, he's off to one of Europes elite by 21. That's if they haven't snapped him up even before. So little chance for any but the most bank rolled clubs to do much other than stay organised.

For a while, it's threatened to develop into a top 5 or 6 miles ahead, with the other 14 separated by a handful of points. TBF (to Bournemouth) most of the bottom half, including us, have been uninspiring for much of the time. Decent shape, grabbed some wins, that's very much us. Though I do think our defending is way better than most at the bottom, that's also what's kept our heads above water as our attack is as poor as the rest, perhaps excluding Everton.

Yeah, probably.

I find the whole league fascinating. When you analyse Wolves v Villa for example, we’ve conceded just 3 more goals all season, but they’ve scored 17 more.. or .5 goals per game for arguments sake.

The margins feel so small between 10-12 teams most seasons. Not sure why. Similar budgets. Similar structures of teams.

Goalscorer v not having one? That feels like the biggest difference. I don’t see Brentford being in the top half without Toney. I don’t see them being in the league tbh.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Iv seen several posters over the last year or 2 tell us that premier league footballers are miles better now than they were 15-25 years ago. Absolute *******s.

15 probably not, 25 likely. When Wenger first arrived he constantly bemoaned the technical ability of U.K. players, it was the post Bergkamp influx of foreigners that raised the technical level. I think mostly though, strength & conditioning and tactical awareness has hugely improved. Also the Prem is currently so financially dominant that we have a higher concentration of talent than ever before. In the past it’d be spread over Spain, Italy etc. These days Wolves outspend Serie A on their own in Jan. Crazy.

 

[yateleywolf]

Think Forest and Leicester will just do enough and get out of it .Saints ,Leeds and Everton to go .

 

[Flump]

Iv seen several posters over the last year or 2 tell us that premier league footballers are miles better now than they were 15-25 years ago. Absolute *******s.

I think you're forgetting what the average PL side used to be like!

If we take 20 years ago (the season when you needed >42 points to stay up), then Birmingham finished 13th with Stan Lazaridis, Bryan Hughes (?), Clinton Morrison, Jamie Clapham (?), and Stephen Clemence as their key players.

 

[TheConcourse]

I tend to agree. City are outstanding - possibly the best Prem side ever with Haarland. Arsenal are good but miles behind. Toon have become a decent side, Utd in transition, Liverpool inconsistent, Spurs and Chelsea are all over the place and the rest and ok to ****e. So all in all a pretty average Prem this season imo but excitning to an extent by the race for the title and the 9 teams involved at the bottom.

Goalscorer and defensively solid from 1st - 4th
Goalscorer and defensively average 5th - 9th
No goalscorer and defensively average 10th - 15th
No goalscorer and poor defensively 16th - 20th

 

[Scallywolf]

Before this year, I hadn’t appreciated just how good Kieran Trippier is.

After Haaland, he’s as good a shout for Footballer of the Year as anyone.

Tripper has had a great season, Tring.

Thing is, defenders don’t win Footballer of the Year. Ruben Dias of City is the only defender to have won it in the last 30 years.

 

[Hot Fuss]

I think you're forgetting what the average PL side used to be like!

If we take 20 years ago (the season when you needed >42 points to stay up), then Birmingham finished 13th with Stan Lazaridis, Bryan Hughes (?), Clinton Morrison, Jamie Clapham (?), and Stephen Clemence as their key players.

and West Ham went down that season with Di Danio, Defoe, Carrick and Cole who would all walk into our current side.

 

[Contrarian]

Yeah, probably.

I find the whole league fascinating. When you analyse Wolves v Villa for example, we’ve conceded just 3 more goals all season, but they’ve scored 17 more.. or .5 goals per game for arguments sake.

The margins feel so small between 10-12 teams most seasons. Not sure why. Similar budgets. Similar structures of teams.

Goalscorer v not having one? That feels like the biggest difference. I don’t see Brentford being in the top half without Toney. I don’t see them being in the league tbh.

Yep. At start of season, Villa looked awful , even worse than us. The single main difference is they have a goalscorer in Watkins and he's got back into form. Similarly Toney at Brentford. And Fulham are wilting since Mitrovic early burst dried up. Also, all 3 of those teams looked no better than us in the games we actually played them. Hope I'm not tempting fate with us having to play Villa in their best form for years, possibly decades!

 

[Flump]

and West Ham went down that season with Di Danio, Defoe, Carrick and Cole who would all walk into our current side.

Di Canio was gone by that point... Marlon Harewood was their #1 striker that year - I'd rather have Sasa on crutches!

 

[arctic rime]

Bournemouth beats Leeds.... Leicester beat Everton.....we won't need another point I reckon...

I agree

 

[Hot Fuss]

Di Canio was gone by that point... Marlon Harewood was their #1 striker that year - I'd rather have Sasa on crutches!

Di Canio was there top league scorer that season.

As for Harewood, his cross at Derby for Keogh is one of my favourite moments in the history of football

I’m quite nostalgic for the mid 90s- mid 00s. Get irrationally annoyed when it gets looked down on. Maybe rose tinted glasses but players like Shearer, Wright, Bergkamp, Di Canio, Ginola, Juninho, Zola, Beckham, Keane, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Klinsmann, Gullit, Giggs, Alonso, Anelka, Hasselbaink, Torres, Van Niestelrooy, Carbone, Scholes, Viera, Petit, Overmars, early Rooney, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Sherigham, Yorke, Le Tissier, Fowler, Owen would all be brilliant today.

I look at Chelsea, Tottenham, Man United current teams and don’t see the same quality. I like Arsenals current team who are going to finish second (saka, Odegaard, Martinelli are very good) but there sides from 98 and 04 would wipe the floor with them.

 

[Monketron]

Saints look dejected oh well would anyone want any of their players lol - don’t say che adams!

Sulemana, Alcaraz or Livramento will have plenty of interest but that’s it

Lavia is going to be the big player on the market if they go down, although City may just trigger their buy-back. Only 19 yet was more than holding his own in games.

 

[GigaWolf]

At least two established PL teams dropping this season, crazy really.

But when you say established they bern there for years but in an unstable position. Saints are always hovering above the zone in recent years and everton have had 10 managers since moyes left and none of them have bettered his record.

 

[Monketron]

At least two established PL teams dropping this season, crazy really.

Yep. The Champ next season is going to be stacked.

 

[Dr Wolfenstein]

Goalscorer and defensively solid from 1st - 4th
Goalscorer and defensively average 5th - 9th
No goalscorer and defensively average 10th - 15th
No goalscorer and poor defensively 16th - 20th

Arsenal have spread the goals around-only 4 behind City with no one above 15 goals. (Similarly Newcastle).

 

[Bryce]

I shudder at the thought of buying from relegated teams after Johnson and O Hara, but should we have a look this season if Southampton and Everton drop? We have to be honest about our budget and it would be good to have another option other than Mendes?
I am sure JLo has his ideas .

 

[SuperGran]

Yep. The Champ next season is going to be stacked.

Bad luck for the baggies oh well.

 

[TheConcourse]

Arsenal have spread the goals around-only 4 behind City with no one above 15 goals. (Similarly Newcastle).

Almiron, Isaak and Wilson have all hit double figures.

The bulk of their goals have come from their forward players.

Arsenal and Brighton look like the outliers in the top half, but it’s still difficult to argue against having a striker scoring goals puts you in a way better position than not. The data is pretty clear across the league bar 3-4 instances.

 

[clivewolves]

That Isak run last night was like Thierry Henry at his best.

 

[TheConcourse]

That Isak run last night was like Thierry Henry at his best.

Some player isn’t he?

 

[Flump]

Di Canio was there top league scorer that season.

As for Harewood, his cross at Derby for Keogh is one of my favourite moments in the history of football

I’m quite nostalgic for the mid 90s- mid 00s. Get irrationally annoyed when it gets looked down on. Maybe rose tinted glasses but players like Shearer, Wright, Bergkamp, Di Canio, Ginola, Juninho, Zola, Beckham, Keane, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Klinsmann, Gullit, Giggs, Alonso, Anelka, Hasselbaink, Torres, Van Niestelrooy, Carbone, Scholes, Viera, Petit, Overmars, early Rooney, Ashley Cole, Joe Cole, Sherigham, Yorke, Le Tissier, Fowler, Owen would all be brilliant today.

I look at Chelsea, Tottenham, Man United current teams and don’t see the same quality. I like Arsenals current team who are going to finish second (saka, Odegaard, Martinelli are very good) but there sides from 98 and 04 would wipe the floor with them.

Ah yea, I was googling 2003, rather than 2003-4.

I don't know if it's necessarily rose tinted glasses, but I think there's an element of smudged glasses in that your list spans Ian Wright (mid 90s) to Xabi Alonso (mid-late 2000s), so it's not like we should compare just the current crop to that whole list. If we compared the most recent 10-15 years we could list Ronaldo, Salah, De Bruyne, Haaland, Kane, Aguero, Suarez... you'd have to keep going until you get past players like David & Bernardo Silva if they only have to compete with Joe Cole and Fowler!

I'd have thought if we take something like # of English clubs getting to late stages of the CL as a rough guide, then the last 10-15 years have been far better than the previous 10-15. And there's no longer so much of an issue of Real Madrid just being able to hoover up whoever they fancy as the top Premier League player. And while I doubt there's a way of proving it, I suspect the ever increasing money on offer means that the mid-lower table teams are stronger than they've been before.

 

[JonahWolf]

I shudder at the thought of buying from relegated teams after Johnson and O Hara, but should we have a look this season if Southampton and Everton drop? We have to be honest about our budget and it would be good to have another option other than Mendes?
I am sure JLo has his ideas .

Everton don’t have anybody interesting.
Onana been one of their best players, but we do finally have a number of athletic, ball carrying when needed midfielders.
Calvert-Lewin could be a great striker…if he wasn’t made of glass.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

That Isak run last night was like Thierry Henry at his best.

It was brilliant but also, just shoulder charge him into touch, or at least foul him in a ‘coming together’ type way and risk the pen. They pretty much got out of his way and put up a flashing neon ‘Welcome Isak’ sign

Shocking defending from the snood haters.

 

[Ponty]

At least two established PL teams dropping this season, crazy really.

Not definitely. Leeds and Forest are not established PL teams.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Iv seen several posters over the last year or 2 tell us that premier league footballers are miles better now than they were 15-25 years ago. Absolute *******s.

The technical ability and fitness/conditioning of players is miles better than what it was 15-25 years ago.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Everton don’t have anybody interesting.
Onana been one of their best players, but we do finally have a number of athletic, ball carrying when needed midfielders.
Calvert-Lewin could be a great striker…if he wasn’t made of glass.

To be fair, and l'm not saying that l want him, they'd already be down if it wasn't for Pickford. He has had a bloody good season in a Godawful team.

 

[Perton Wolf]

It’s genuinely a case now of being a well drilled team and finishing safe in the Premier League.

Bournemouth are absolutely awful. Totally uninspiring. Dreadful defensively, marginally better on the counter, but they have a decent shape.

Southampton were all over the place. Same as Leeds. Everton. Us under Lage. No shape, no hope.

You have to question the quality of this league when you see Villa in 5th.

This isn't new, if you're well drilled then you're likely to have a season where you finish above 3 other teams.

As for Bournemouth, well they aren't dreadful defensively then, are they? If a team has decent shape as you admit then I'm not sure how you can make that statement, under O'Neill anyway.

Villa have a good squad and a top coach to boot which makes a difference. The quality of the league is as good as ever, it's just very competitive.

 

[WickedWolfie]

The technical ability and fitness/conditioning of players is miles better than what it was 15-25 years ago.

Not to mention the medical care.

 

[WickedWolfie]

This isn't new, if you're well drilled then you're likely to have a season where you finish above 3 other teams.

As for Bournemouth, well they aren't dreadful defensively then, are they? If a team has decent shape as you admit then I'm not sure how you can make that statement, under O'Neill anyway.

Villa have a good squad and a top coach to boot which makes a difference. The quality of the league is as good as ever, it's just very competitive.

Re your second para you can do that for one season. Whether you can do it for an extended period though.... See Mick's teams for example...

 

[JonahWolf]

The quality of the league is as good as ever, it's just very competitive.

It’s the failings/inconsistency of Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, Yanited that are making the league not as strong. Every season for the last few years, it’s looked as though at least 3 English teams were in with a genuine shot at the champions league.
This year that’s only ever really been one.
Arsenal have stepped up from nowhere to replace Liverpool as that one team capable of giving Citeh a scare, but the ‘top 6’ overall haven’t been as dominant.
Which is one of the reasons there hasn’t been so much of an ‘on the beach’ mid-table pack, and the tighter, nobody truly adrift relegation battle.
More even points distribution throughout, with even the runaway top 2 not amassing anywhere near as many points as the Liverpool/Citeh near 100 point chases.

 

[JonahWolf]

To be fair, and l'm not saying that l want him, they'd already be down if it wasn't for Pickford. He has had a bloody good season in a Godawful team.

You know, I’d completely forgotten about him, which is silly, since I was idly musing upon his future just last night.
Where does he go next? Youd have to think Spurs and Yanited would be interested, the rest of the top prem clubs have quality keepers that suit them.

He’s really matured, more calm and consistent, I’d swap Sa and a wedge of cash for him in a heartbeat.