Today’s games - 2021-22

[Contrarian]

Bought in by Macron to stop the police violence against the yellow vests.

Head of the police federation wants the ban here.

Just reading up on it, it seems a complex situation. The ruling has been on, off, changed, not sure exactly whats' going on. AFAIK currently, they made it illegal to share images that allow the police to be identified. Presumably for the police protection. So filming may be OK, but sharing isn't? I suppose you could blur out the faces? But the problem is the potential to prevent journalists or members of the public from highlighting police brutality. We live in troubled times indeed.

 

[NJ Wolves]

The French seem a miserable bunch ... between the scenes at St Etienne above as well as PSG fans refusing to celebrate winning the league inside the stadium with the players

 

[SA Wolf]

Why only Liverpool fans? Not hearing the same reports from Madrid fans.

Clearly some horrendous scenes and actions, but seemingly only directed at Liverpool. UK fans still have a reputation from the dark days of football violence and seem more aggressive than continental fans. Even the earlier video showing a fans being pepper-sprayed at the turnstile shows him gesticulating and swearing at the cops. I'd be inclined to pepper-spray him if he was acting like that to me!
Maybe just an impression and certainly a generalisation, but continental fans seem more urbane and our fans more feral. Perhaps this is why we get reports of violent actions from European security forces against fans of UK clubs and less so from their opposition fans.

Or maybe there is another explanation!

 

[Flea]

Regarding Forest vs Terriers yesterday.
I think there is two penalties in there for Huddersfield.
First one,yes he is diving but there is also clear contact.
Second episode..was it O´Brien..I cannot see any reason for it not to be given.Tackled in the back,real clumpsy by the Forest player.

There seems to be no accountability regarding the refs.They can put almost any type of performance in qualitywise and still no one even get´s to ask them questions about it plus they don´t have to give a second opionion on their own refereing?

Even worse with those guys in the VAR room.Was it Tierny yesterday?
How on earth did he manage not to overrule the old and inept Moss decisions at least once?
Many is asking those questions..none of the refs directly involved and directly responsible will respond?
That must be wrong.

 

[Ned]

What do you think happened then?

A mixture of what you said and it’s also a far better story having Forest in the PL than Huddersfield.

 

[Ned]

Huddersfield have had their entire season null and voided by the incompetence and/or corruption of those behind VAR.

Forest deserved the win, 100%, but imagine if those exact two penalties weren’t given in favour of Liverpool in Saturday’s final…

 

[Direwolf]

Huddersfield have had their entire season null and voided by the incompetence and/or corruption of those behind VAR.

Forest deserved the win, 100%, but imagine if those exact two penalties weren’t given in favour of Liverpool in Saturday’s final…

I was indifferent about the outcome of the game but expected a fair result given given the importance of the game and the fact that it had VAR in place. Huddersfield dominated the game second half I thought and did try and take the game to Forest. I was pretty confident that VAR was going to give them a penalty for the first shout for a trip when John Moss issued a stupid yellow card as he believed the Huddersfield player was Mexican. I was quite dismayed when VAR did not intervene. After that decision it was pretty clear it was the John Moss show and he was not going to be undermined by VAR in his final Swan Song game. No surprise that the second penalty shout was quickly dismissed. Despite their being clear contact from a challenge from behind where the Forest player tried to kick the ball through the back of the Huddersfield players legs. Awful defending from Forest that was clearly very clumsy indeed. It was pretty much a waste of time even having VAR in the game as it was clearly all about John Moss not being overruled despite his totally appalling decision making. Huddersfield were deprived of two clear penalties for two very clumsy challenges from defenders. As you say had it have been a big club their would have been an absolute outcry and in all likelihood both of the decisions would have been given as a Penalty.

 

[old wittonian]

I was indifferent about the outcome of the game but expected a fair result given given the importance of the game and the fact that it had VAR in place. Huddersfield dominated the game second half I thought and did try and take the game to Forest. I was pretty confident that VAR was going to give them a penalty for the first shout for a trip when John Moss issued a stupid yellow card as he believed the Huddersfield player was Mexican. I was quite dismayed when VAR did not intervene. After that decision it was pretty clear it was the John Moss show and he was not going to be undermined by VAR in his final Swan Song game. No surprise that the second penalty shout was quickly dismissed. Despite their being clear contact from a challenge from behind where the Forest player tried to kick the ball through the back of the Huddersfield players legs. Awful defending from Forest that was clearly very clumsy indeed. It was pretty much a waste of time even having VAR in the game as it was clearly all about John Moss not being overruled despite his totally appalling decision making. Huddersfield were deprived of two clear penalties for two very clumsy challenges from defenders. As you say had it have been a big club their would have been an absolute outcry and in all likelihood both of the decisions would have been given as a Penalty.

We need to find a system in which the VAR officials have no connection with those onfield.
Maybe move it to Europe and employ their officials. You only have to look at our Europa League experience to see how much better than ours they are.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

We need to find a system in which the VAR officials have no connection with those onfield.
Maybe move it to Europe and employ their officials. You only have to look at our Europa League experience to see how much better than ours they are.

Think that would be a good idea. If the VAR officials were totally independent from the on field referees it would take the major element of concern away - officials afraid to undermine or upset their colleagues. The system feels pretty rotten at the moment.

Then again, our officials seem so incompetent compared to the top European referees it would probably be easier to replace the whole lot, both on field and VAR with European officials.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

A 'perfect' VAR system is still crap for the fans in the ground.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

A 'perfect' VAR system is still crap for the fans in the ground.

This.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

What’s the difference between Chris wood on Jose sa and that huddersfield dive?

The problem with VAR is they still get decisions wrong and inconsistent .

given how much worse it makes the game, it has to be knocked on the head .

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Why only Liverpool fans? Not hearing the same reports from Madrid fans.

Clearly some horrendous scenes and actions, but seemingly only directed at Liverpool. UK fans still have a reputation from the dark days of football violence and seem more aggressive than continental fans. Even the earlier video showing a fans being pepper-sprayed at the turnstile shows him gesticulating and swearing at the cops. I'd be inclined to pepper-spray him if he was acting like that to me!
Maybe just an impression and certainly a generalisation, but continental fans seem more urbane and our fans more feral. Perhaps this is why we get reports of violent actions from European security forces against fans of UK clubs and less so from their opposition fans.

Or maybe there is another explanation!

First experience I had of this was Turin, where we were brought in on busses from the city centre and squashed into a small box canyon with inadequate turnstiles, Any set of fans would be as frustrated as us, and I have to admit to sharing my frustration with a Uefa badge wearing official at the time, epacially given the women and children in the melee outside. Fortunately I wasn't pepper sprayed by local police who weren't that bad and it was Uefa at faulty that day.

Then the Porto/Braga police took it to another level. Had been in the town now more than thirty minutes before 8 of us were battoned by the local riot police for no reason whatsoever. I spoke to the only reasonable policeman a senior officer in my age range and asked him why when a snarling copper came up and said "you're all the same and we can do what we want!" I looked around at his gun toting mates who by then had surrounded us and the one I was talking to actually said sorry and suggested we moved on.

The situation outside the Braga ground was from the same Euro-Cop playbook for crowd control as Saturday with added driving rain!

I normally have no sympathy for Liverpool fans but what teh French Police and Uefa did was out of order, racist and targeted.

 

[Sephiroth]

They should never have had VAR for the final anyway.

They didnt need it in the other 48 games they played. Ridiculous decision to implement it just for the final.

 

[lets all have a disco]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1531003292645478403

Interesting events in France tonight as Saint Etienne were relegated

Beats our 1 fan punching the dugout, after the Burnley home game when we was bound for league 1..

 

[SA Wolf]

First experience I had of this was Turin, where we were brought in on busses from the city centre and squashed into a small box canyon with inadequate turnstiles, Any set of fans would be as frustrated as us, and I have to admit to sharing my frustration with a Uefa badge wearing official at the time, epacially given the women and children in the melee outside. Fortunately I wasn't pepper sprayed by local police who weren't that bad and it was Uefa at faulty that day.

Then the Porto/Braga police took it to another level. Had been in the town now more than thirty minutes before 8 of us were battoned by the local riot police for no reason whatsoever. I spoke to the only reasonable policeman a senior officer in my age range and asked him why when a snarling copper came up and said "you're all the same and we can do what we want!" I looked around at his gun toting mates who by then had surrounded us and the one I was talking to actually said sorry and suggested we moved on.

The situation outside the Braga ground was from the same Euro-Cop playbook for crowd control as Saturday with added driving rain!

I normally have no sympathy for Liverpool fans but what teh French Police and Uefa did was out of order, racist and targeted.

I hear what you say, VP, but why is it predominantly UK (I include Scottish) fans that experience such treatment. As I understand and from what I saw, the RM fans didn't get pepper-sprayed, tear-gassed and were in the ground, at their seats in good time for the scheduled start.

 

[Minimalist]

I hear what you say, VP, but why is it predominantly UK (I include Scottish) fans that experience such treatment. As I understand and from what I saw, the RM fans didn't get pepper-sprayed, tear-gassed and were in the ground, at their seats in good time for the scheduled start.

I think a major problem is that British fans seem to have a ,much larger than other teams, culture of travelling without tickets. This does cause all sorts of problems at venues.

I remember just before the rangers match recently a bloke being interviewed on the radio was talking about which team would win the “black market” scramble for tickets, and therefore have more fans and possibly have the edge in the match.
How many times do England fans get lorded for ending up with 3/4 of an allocation at a tournament, despite only being officially given many fewer tickets.
Travelling without tickets is a major problem. And that is fuelled by tickets being sold on so frequently.

The media always love those stories of tickets exchanging hands for ridiculous sums.

I think tickets should be strictly non transferable (which I’d guess they actually, theoretically, are) quite how you enforce it I’m not sure.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Why only Liverpool fans? Not hearing the same reports from Madrid fans.

Clearly some horrendous scenes and actions, but seemingly only directed at Liverpool. UK fans still have a reputation from the dark days of football violence and seem more aggressive than continental fans. Even the earlier video showing a fans being pepper-sprayed at the turnstile shows him gesticulating and swearing at the cops. I'd be inclined to pepper-spray him if he was acting like that to me!
Maybe just an impression and certainly a generalisation, but continental fans seem more urbane and our fans more feral. Perhaps this is why we get reports of violent actions from European security forces against fans of UK clubs and less so from their opposition fans.

Or maybe there is another explanation!

Too many fans here eff and blind the police and expect them to take it. European police expect to be respected and will react very badly indeed if they are abused. Mouthy idiots will be CS gassed or worse. I've seen the same in Spain on the Costas....

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

I hear what you say, VP, but why is it predominantly UK (I include Scottish) fans that experience such treatment. As I understand and from what I saw, the RM fans didn't get pepper-sprayed, tear-gassed and were in the ground, at their seats in good time for the scheduled start.

Listening to Sky Sports News at lunchtime, they did get the same treatment although I think they found access easier than the Liverpool fans did (2 turnstiles out of 13 open). Also think that there were more French youths climbing in at their end and they had the organised mugging gangs waiting for them when they left.

Seems Uefa and the French are spinning their lies to cover their backs right now. Seen nothing but patience and compliance on behalf of the Liverpool fans and no production of any mass surges or gates being rushed so a mythical rumour of fake tickets being used as an excuse.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Just seen this as well........

https://twitter.com/x/status/1530895068260868096

 

[JadeWolf]

I think a major problem is that British fans seem to have a ,much larger than other teams, culture of travelling without tickets. This does cause all sorts of problems at venues.

I remember just before the rangers match recently a bloke being interviewed on the radio was talking about which team would win the “black market” scramble for tickets, and therefore have more fans and possibly have the edge in the match.
How many times do England fans get lorded for ending up with 3/4 of an allocation at a tournament, despite only being officially given many fewer tickets.
Travelling without tickets is a major problem. And that is fuelled by tickets being sold on so frequently.

The media always love those stories of tickets exchanging hands for ridiculous sums.

I think tickets should be strictly non transferable (which I’d guess they actually, theoretically, are) quite how you enforce it I’m not sure.

I can sort of see the appeal but you’re right, travelling abroad for a match when you’ve not got a ticket can be an issue I guess. You’re also right that it would be almost impossible to regulate and enforce.

I do wonder how many of the “fake” tickets were brought in good faith and how many were people who knew they were fake and were just trying it on.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Why only Liverpool fans? Not hearing the same reports from Madrid fans.

Clearly some horrendous scenes and actions, but seemingly only directed at Liverpool. UK fans still have a reputation from the dark days of football violence and seem more aggressive than continental fans. Even the earlier video showing a fans being pepper-sprayed at the turnstile shows him gesticulating and swearing at the cops. I'd be inclined to pepper-spray him if he was acting like that to me!
Maybe just an impression and certainly a generalisation, but continental fans seem more urbane and our fans more feral. Perhaps this is why we get reports of violent actions from European security forces against fans of UK clubs and less so from their opposition fans.

Or maybe there is another explanation!

Pretty hilarious to post this after St Etienne fans tried to burn their stadium down.

Madrid fans are also posting similar stories btw.

 

[SA Wolf]

Pretty hilarious to post this after St Etienne fans tried to burn their stadium down.

Madrid fans are also posting similar stories btw.

Not really hilarious is it? Seems pretty horrific if the news stories are accurate.

I hadn't seen the St Etienne pitch invasion and haven't heard anything from the Madrid fans on the news stations that I watch.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Too many fans here eff and blind the police and expect them to take it. European police expect to be respected and will react very badly indeed if they are abused. Mouthy idiots will be CS gassed or worse. I've seen the same in Spain on the Costas....

"Mouthy idiots"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1530845571241607168

Police have a disproportion amount of power hungry bullies join, and as a friend in the police told me those who volunteer for football matches are the biggest thugs and are widely disliked amongst other coppers.

French police are known for their violence. Respect is earned, police have lost it with the public in many countries over the last few years (down 7% in the last 3 years, with it barely being a majority now who trust them).

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Some on here belong on the liverpools fan forum

 

[TheConcourse]

Some on here belong on the liverpools fan forum

By Ewok vs Wolf
Age 6 3/4

 

[Contrarian]

Huddersfield have had their entire season null and voided by the incompetence and/or corruption of those behind VAR.

Yay!! What with both Liverpool and Huddersfield losing, it was a pleasant end to a difficult season.

Forest deserved the win, 100%, but imagine if those exact two penalties weren’t given in favour of Liverpool in Saturday’s final…

In the Premier league, I can't imagine them not being given to Liverpool. Though they certainly wouldn't be given for a non-top 6 club *against* Liverpool. Not at Anfield. Seen far worse waved away in recent seasons. Though I do think the second incident is a penalty. The first, the attacker is already falling over the defender *before* the contact. It's a dive and he makes contact on the way down.

 

[Contrarian]

"Mouthy idiots"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1530845571241607168

Police have a disproportion amount of power hungry bullies join, and as a friend in the police told me those who volunteer for football matches are the biggest thugs and are widely disliked amongst other coppers.

French police are known for their violence. Respect is earned, police have lost it with the public in many countries over the last few years (down 7% in the last 3 years, with it barely being a majority now who trust them).

But they don't pepper spray the mouthy idiot? They pepper spray the guy next to him who appears to be doing nothing wrong. And I do agree to an extent that "mouthy idiot-ness" appears to be on the increase - you see them everywhere. Though it's not exclusively a British think, seems to me whenever there's some idiot mouthing off abroad, it is mostly some drunken Brit. Anyway, having said that, since when has it been OK to pepper spray mouthy idiots? They are obnoxious, but I wasn't aware that pepper spraying was an allowed deterrent.

Maybe it's a cultural thing? Sometimes people in other languages sound as if they are arguing when you don't know the language, but you learn it's just how that language sounds and how the culture is, they are just friends getting along perfectly well. For us British, it just *sounds* like we are communicating in drunken grunts with a potential to get violent any second, but it's not that at all, it's just how we communicate these days. Just banter, innit?

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

Disregard the constabulary.

 

[Oliwolf44]

I think a major problem is that British fans seem to have a ,much larger than other teams, culture of travelling without tickets. This does cause all sorts of problems at venues.

I remember just before the rangers match recently a bloke being interviewed on the radio was talking about which team would win the “black market” scramble for tickets, and therefore have more fans and possibly have the edge in the match.
How many times do England fans get lorded for ending up with 3/4 of an allocation at a tournament, despite only being officially given many fewer tickets.
Travelling without tickets is a major problem. And that is fuelled by tickets being sold on so frequently.

The media always love those stories of tickets exchanging hands for ridiculous sums.

I think tickets should be strictly non transferable (which I’d guess they actually, theoretically, are) quite how you enforce it I’m not sure.

You cant stop people essentially going on holiday though. Some people just want to be there to experience the occasion and then watch the match there. I dont know why for finals they dont set up big screens in the main squares like they do for world cup matches. Surely its easier to manage the crowd in those situations. Maybe they do this already?
I went to Braga without a ticket so cant criticise any liverpool fan that did the same. Braga did agree to sell me a ticket though so i was essentially accounted for officially and so it shouldnt have been the problem that it was. Would also add i had no intention of going in if i didnt have a ticket and would have happily watched it in a bar in the town (turns out may have been the more enjoyable experience with hindsight). There seems to be a big thing in recent times of fake tickets and people forcing entry which as far as im aware hadnt been a major issue like it is now.

 

[lets all have a disco]

You cant stop people essentially going on holiday though. Some people just want to be there to experience the occasion and then watch the match there. I dont know why for finals they dont set up big screens in the main squares like they do for world cup matches. Surely its easier to manage the crowd in those situations. Maybe they do this already?
I went to Braga without a ticket so cant criticise any liverpool fan that did the same. Braga did agree to sell me a ticket though so i was essentially accounted for officially and so it shouldnt have been the problem that it was. Would also add i had no intention of going in if i didnt have a ticket and would have happily watched it in a bar in the town (turns out may have been the more enjoyable experience with hindsight). There seems to be a big thing in recent times of fake tickets and people forcing entry which as far as im aware hadnt been a major issue like it is now.

Liverpool did have a fan park in Paris......there was 30k there.....

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Liverpool did have a fan park in Paris......there was 30k there.....

And Real Madrid also had a fan park … but the game was not being screened in their fan park (apparently). Therefore, Madrid fans got into the Liverpool park and, well, you can imagine …

The whole event … talk about disorganised and chaotic.

 

[lets all have a disco]

And Real Madrid also had a fan park … but the game was not being screened in their fan park (apparently). Therefore, Madrid fans got into the Liverpool park and, well, you can imagine …

The whole event … talk about disorganised and chaotic.

Everything seems disorganized these days....the euro games at Wembley were shocking to be fair.....so we can hardly have a go at the French ... Your scared to go on holiday nw with the scenes at the airport..... everything seems to be going to pot.....

 

[Oliwolf44]

Everything seems disorganized these days....the euro games at Wembley were shocking to be fair.....so we can hardly have a go at the French ... Your scared to go on holiday nw with the scenes at the airport..... everything seems to be going to pot.....

Football mirrors society. People are unhappy and the people in charge dont know what they are doing.

 

[old wittonian]

Football mirrors society. People are unhappy and the people in charge dont know what they are doing.

I didn't think John Moss was in charge.

 

[Erick1011]

John Moss issued a stupid yellow card as he believed the Huddersfield player was Mexican.

What the ****?

 

[Deleted member drgr12429]

What the ****?

I think he's referring to Jon Moss and Raul.

 

[BlahBlah]

We need to find a system in which the VAR officials have no connection with those onfield.
Maybe move it to Europe and employ their officials. You only have to look at our Europa League experience to see how much better than ours they are.

The system works, it's how the EPL has implemented it which has caused the problem, changing a piloted system to suit their own means, invaidating the pilot study upon which it got approval. For that you need to look to Alan Wiley and the pressure brought by the referee's union...they refused to be excluded and have tried to use VAR as a weapon to stick it up people who complained about referee's before. Make VAR so bad that we'd want to go back to the previous situation etc.

 

[BlahBlah]

There seems to be a big thing in recent times of fake tickets and people forcing entry which as far as im aware hadnt been a major issue like it is now.

It used to be a lot worse than it is now.....the 80's were horrendous obviously, and stadiums were terrible....tickets were paper or cardboard that could be photocopied, the hardest thing was getting the right coloured paper....ticket numbers didn't matter when it was all standing, you got in and disappeared into the terrace.

I remember going to the 85 Cup Final and being astonished at literally hundreds of ManU fans climbing the big trees outside the old Wembley and leaping through fresh air like Spiderman onto the old windowsills (which were like old castle slit windows with no glass), where they'd be grabbed and pulled inside the ground. They were running and leaping the turnstiles in their hundreds, they reckoned there were 120,000 people inside that day....look at some of the photo's of the finals in those days. I remember going to the front and then being pinned for 2 hours..no gangways left, nowhere to go. You had to **** on the terrace in front of you, people would push forward to give you a little pocket of space to get your todger out. When we left after the game there were rivers of **** running down the terraces and the whole place stank of beer and urine. It all stopped after Hillsborough which was the final straw after Heysel.

More recently, in the Champions League semi-final in 2009, Man United had about 10,000 rushing the gate at Arsenal. I know this because a Man U supporting mate of mine had stolen a Champions League stewards bib at a previous match and was in the cordon trying to hold them back...he said they were animals, spitting on him and punching him. When the police horses arrived, he walked straight in the ground and onto the pitchside, walked the running track until kick-off, then sat down and watched the entire game. He's on the TV pictures sitting with his back to the hoardings, trying to look official in his "bib". You can't underestimate football fans who'll do anything to watch a match.

Technology is much better but it seems this French operation was hopelessly organised. We can't argue after seeing what happened at Euro 2020.

It's not exactly a recent thing, and certainly not when Liverpudlians or Mancunians are involved, they are acknowledged as the world's best ticket touts and became infamous when targetting the WInter Olympics in Salt Lake about 20 years ago...the business model and skillset was fabulous and they made a fortune through being extremely well organised and ahead of all the official sellers.
There was another article i found which showed that Liverpudlians and Mancunians basically run ticket touting in Barcelona and Madrid for all-Spanish games.

You put the touting organisations together with their local contacts and a Liverpool football match where tickets were going for 9000 quid before the match and you're talking very serious money which goes beyond the level of your normal ticket "contacts".

Channel 4 reporting the French are reporting "industrial scale" touting. If you've bought a ticket which assumedly these days are able to look extremely good and be fairly costly to produce apart from the metal strip, what are fans going to do at the turnstile when they find out they've been conned and there are potentially thousands of them? Turn around and walk away, or try any means necessary to climb in or rush the gates?

Two articles...one from before the match. The other is from 2002, and is hilarious.

Liverpool fan & friends conned out of £19,000 after buying 19 fake CL final tickets

️ “It looked legit at first, I didn’t think anything of it… “I tried to phone [the ticket tout] and it said the number was not in service anymore and at that point I was like ‘I’ve been done here. Everyone is gutted to be honest. It’s been a rollercoaster of emotions…” Spare a thought for Ray...

www.givemesport.com

Mersey touts head for Utah. - Free Online Library

Free Online Library: Mersey touts head for Utah.(News) by "Daily Post (Liverpool, England)"; News, opinion and commentary General interest

www.thefreelibrary.com

 

[waggys left foot]

Impressive list of 'A' list Pool fans getting the tear gas treatment.

MARTIN SAMUEL: Tear-gassing A-listers has exposed all the Paris lies

MARTIN SAMUEL - CHIEF SPORTS WRITER: Nobody deserved it. The fact that A-listers got teargassed means ordinary fans, who might otherwise not be believed, will now be heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk