Time to Reflect and Plan

[Deleted member 3545]

Why would set out to achieve less than this year?

5th and 6th isnt less than this season. Realistically Wolves i9 can see finish between 5th-10th

 

[Bankswolf The Third]

We need options that is all. Get in an option in defence, an option in midfield for Moutinho an option up front for Raul and it keeps opposing teams on their toes and helps us adapt to different teams and pick up more points.
In the meantime we sell no one and keep the squad morale high. Anyone coming into this team will at least settle well with the good atmosphere we have around the place

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Just want to be clear on my original post, regarding Traore he's had a fantastic season and his name is on everyone's lips the question is do you stick or twist? In some quarters they mention £80m - £90m which is a hell of a profit, Nuno has to decide whether he can maintain or indeed improve his performance levels. Such has been his impact this term, we probably won't get anywhere near that type of money again, do you cash in or hold your nerve and keep him?

Re the squad we have to have quality alternatives to Jota and Joao (and others of course, I'm just using these as examples) there are times when they need resting, will lose a bit of form like every player and they as player's know there is a need for real competition. When it's not happening on the pitch for Joao he must look at the bench and see a big drop in quality for example. We need Nuno to do with Diogo (confidence and decision making) what he did with Adama.

One thing I'm sure about is that I would not like to see any of our "starters" leave but we have to complete the squad with quality competition for their places.

PS apologies for all of the typo's in the OP

 

[Contrarian]

We need to be in that Spurs/Arsenal bracket. We are actually there at the moment but need to establish ourselves as a team qualifying for Europe on a regular basis and not by hoping a top 4 team wins both cups.

You simply can't *be* in that Spurs/Arsenal bracket in a season or 5. Sorry, but to be in their position requires decades at the top. And who is going to politely drop down to allow us to be in that bracket? No one.

Look at the billions Man City spent to join the top bracket. And as a result, FFP was brought in to stop anyone else spending billions to go from nowhere to the top by buying the star players.

There is a gap from where we are, to that top group, as big as that from the Championship to where we are now. Under current rules, it's going to take many years to bridge that gap - without making any of the mistakes of the many other clubs who have tried and failed.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

You simply can't *be* in that Spurs/Arsenal bracket in a season or 5. Sorry, but to be in their position requires decades at the top. And who is going to politely drop down to allow us to be in that bracket? No one.

That's why I said we need to establish ourselves, every season we stay there we become more and more established. Leicester are there now, but if truth be told we're all thinking they'll drop off and be back in their mid-table position with Everton. People will think that about us. It's that step up, being seen as a club and not a team that's threatening the top four and doing it as a matter of course is where we need to be next.

 

[Flea]

Hopefully,we invest another 100 Mill this summer window to equal our investment from the last one.

That is money enough to get us two or even three players in that will strenghten our starting eleven.

It is all good and well to buy young promising players..but we need the real deals as well.

 

[Contrarian]

That's why I said we need to establish ourselves, every season we stay there we become more and more established. Leicester are there now, but if truth be told we're all thinking they'll drop off and be back in their mid-table position with Everton. People will think that about us. It's that step up, being seen as a club and not a team that's threatening the top four and doing it as a matter of course is where we need to be next.

Agreed! What I'm getting at is that the Premier League is 2 leagues in one. We can't get to the top one without establishing ourselves in that mid-table zone, as you say. To get to a position where "dropping back" means dropping to mid- or lower- part of the top division, like Everton, West Ham, Newcastle etc Not relegation and 15th in the Championship - and that is where we have been in modern times, along with many others.

The other thing is that the playing field is not level. The top 10 or 12 clubs in Europe are actively trying to prevent any other club getting in to their little group. They don't want us there. I wonder if Nuno thinks that we can't get in by outplaying them, that we have to outsmart them by getting players at the next level down, coached to be hyper-organised?

We unluckily failed by a point to break in to the top 6 this season. We are going to have to make an attention grabbing signing or 2 to maintain our current position (unlike in the past year). To get into that top group, we are probably going to have to sign players who *belong* in that group, yet for some reason, turn down Man U, Athletico, Inter Milan etc and come to Wolves instead. Is that ever going to happen?

It's all going to be very interesting. Nothing in football progresses linearly. Apparently, Liverpool had a bad season under Klopp where they didn't qualify for Europe, yet look where they are now only 3 or 4 years later. I think we just had a season where Spurs, Arsenal and Man U were all well below their usual standard - until the lockdown. They are now looking stronger than before, as are Chelsea and the top 2.

I'm really just pre-empting the inevitable weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth if we dare drop to mid-table next season. To me, that still would be a step in the right direction.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

On the principle of reflection I have been wondering whether we achieved European football too early from a financial perspective. The club knew that we would breach UEFA FFP and so had to cut their cloth accordingly in the transfer market particularly as we had committed to buy Raul and Donc after their loans. If you look at the turnover of players over the last three years its incredible, the following 19 were part of match day squads in the Championship who have either been sold or are on perpetual loan :
Batth; Douglas; Costa; Miranda; Afobe; Caveleiro; N'Diaye; Bright; Hause; Norris; Bonatini; Benett; Edwards;Dicko; Graham; Ronan; Marshall; Price; Deslandes
When we arrived in the premiership we bought/loaned 6 first teamers who displaced championship players (5 started regularly by end of the season) - Patricio; Jonny; Dendonker; Raul; Moutinho; Traore
Last year we added Neto, Cutrone (failure), Vallejo (disaster), Jordao and Shabani (last 2 u23 and injured) so would not impact the 1st team.

This year we need to impact the 1st team and some players who have been regulars may have to be on the bench. Whether we sell to buy I'm not sure we have the luxury as we do have a small squad and we need 16/17 quality outfield players who can push each other. I hope we have a proper go at the cups as we should remember that the Vile were also one game away from Europe this year having played against a mixture of U23s - U10s through the competition due to superior clubs having other priorities.

 

[CodsallWolf]

5th and 6th isnt less than this season. Realistically Wolves i9 can see finish between 5th-10th

So why not target top 6? Don’t see any reason to accept a target that includes us going backwards.

 

[Ponty]

We have done incredibly well to finish 7th given the extra Europa games but we are well short of being a top 4 team and to change that would cost hundreds of millions. The way we play we frequently concede possession and against the better teams we have struggled. The exception being games against Man City, one of which we defended heroically and nicked it at the end, and the other was against 10 men.

I think to retain a challenge for 7th we need to become much better in possession. Too often we are midway in the opponents half and take the safe option and go backwards, and then play a long ball when defenders are pressed. Even if we do retain the ball and play it forwards again the opposition are organised and as we have shown an organised team is very hard to break down. I think it is clear that when good teams press we struggle and we need to find a way of dealing with that or I see exactly the same thing happening next season.

If we don't get more bodies in the box we are so dependant on Raul scoring it makes life easy for opponents as even when we break down the wings all too often the only Wolves player in range of goal is Raul. He's now a marked man so will find chances harder to come by and I worry that given the short break he will be exhausted by Christmas.

Anyone who thinks the Europa adventure hasn't impacted since lockdown is ignoring the evidence. Since the three wins against poor opposition we have looked poor with many passes going astray. If we continue to play the same tactics we desperately need some real competition for places or I can see 7th being our ceiling and quite possibly we'll be a way short of 7th.

 

[JOSWolf]

Raul will be exhausted well before Christmas if we dont get proper competition in for him. Same applies to Moutinho who has looked well below par in recent weeks as he has no proper competition. Could also say the same for Doc.

 

[JOSWolf]

Interesting 33 days now until we go again .Obviously the players need to rest up.Will we hear about a new contract for Nuno? Are we going to recruit a new Sporting Director? Will we have new players joining from the off? Will any be sold ? Will we have pre-season games?
All of them are imponderables and whilst I am not expecting massive changes we can’t go into next season with what we have without adding to it .We have a lot of promising youngsters but that is what most of them are at the minute ,but what we don’t have are game changers .Realistically we only have Jota,Neto and Podence (plus Jonny) to add to that starting X1 who can change things and ironically they all play wide .
Serious thought must be given to a CB CMF and back up striker .Our 3 options at the minute are Kilman MGW and Campana .The odd game yes but an extended run ? I don’t think so .
When Boly went down last night my fear was what would we do if he went off?Probably move Dendonker there and have to re-jig elsewhere.
We had years of square pegs in round holes and whilst Nuno prefers a small squad if you do get injuries or loss of form that is what you end up with.
Major decisions to be made as to how we push on now.

Totally agree mate. Need centre back, wing back, central midfield player and a striker.

 

[Goodbye Horse]

While on paper we did not improve much compared to the previous season, let's not forget about the so called 2nd season syndrome. We are no longer a surprise package. Additionally we've had on our shoulders an exhausting European campaign. To finish 7th in such circumstances, on more points than previously, is a great achievement that required an improvement at many levels.

What has been striking is that this time we generally outplayed the poorer teams, whilst not being as effective against the top level opposition (Man City excluded). As I said in the Sevilla game thread, top teams are top teams for a reason. They have top level coaching and analyst teams and we have probably been found out.

That leads us to the question of what we must do to sustain the progress. The answer is simple, yet very difficult. We need more quality in the squad. No one questions our defensive organization and how well drilled the team is. Here we are one of the best in business. But shortage in quality in depth is what ultimately costs us against the top teams. We cannot expect to break into the very top when some players play virtually every game, having no backups. We cannot rely on one striker in 50+ games as he will burn out. Same applies to RWB and several other players.

We are unlikely to break the bank, but there is talent all over the world, for a reasonable price in many cases. I'd like us to show the ambition and make 4 signings: a centre half, a right wing back, a central midfielder (physically strong and willing to run at people) and a striker. That in my opinion gives us a chance to challenge the top 4, and surely enough credentials for a top 6 finish.

This exactly as I see it, it's time for Fosun to back this brilliant team and manager.

 

[JOSWolf]

This exactly as I see it, it's time for Fosun to back this brilliant team and manager.

Totally agree. Would like to see what Jeff has to say now the season has ended. Next season nearly here already.

 

[Miniwolf]

You simply can't *be* in that Spurs/Arsenal bracket in a season or 5. Sorry, but to be in their position requires decades at the top. And who is going to politely drop down to allow us to be in that bracket? No one.

Look at the billions Man City spent to join the top bracket. And as a result, FFP was brought in to stop anyone else spending billions to go from nowhere to the top by buying the star players.

There is a gap from where we are, to that top group, as big as that from the Championship to where we are now. Under current rules, it's going to take many years to bridge that gap - without making any of the mistakes of the many other clubs who have tried and failed.

Spot on, but many fans have no patience and want it now. Its going to take a few years yet for us to compete regularly with the established top 6, many have tried and failed before us. Leicester are still trying despite winning the league.

 

[Goodbye Horse]

For all the talk of crossroads, pivotal moments, moving players on etc there's no mention of fans having some patience. Seen so many people suddenly decide Jota isn't good enough and now Moutinhos legs have gone. These are players who've had a 60 game, 13 month season. This has never happened in football! This squad is full of young players who are progressing and will continue to do so, we have an Identity a manager to envy, brilliant owners and work with the best agent there is. Trust the project, have some patience and see where we are in 3 seasons

Three season with more or less the same squad, they will be in the same state as Steve Bulls knees.

 

[bennymacca]

Hopefully,we invest another 100 Mill this summer window to equal our investment from the last one.

That is money enough to get us two or even three players in that will strenghten our starting eleven.

It is all good and well to buy young promising players..but we need the real deals as well.

Totally agree. I have confidence that we will spend well on what we need. Maybe that's 3 quality players Forward/MIdfielder and Centre back, plus wingback? Our wages can now stretch a little further too.

We could, of course, spend £100M like Everton or West Ham have recently and not progress anywhere. Even Leicester made some very expensive signings that didn't work (Slimani £30M in 2016) ... but we won't. I think most bystanders recognise that we have (excepting Cutrone) had really excellent recruiting over the past 3 years and equally brilliant young player development from Nuno and his team.

Just as Costa and Cav served us to climb the ladder, some of our current players may reach their development ceiling and become, a) squad players, or, b) sold on, this window or next year. I don't think we've had any outright flops and we now have a much better platform to push on. Seems like even Cutrone, Bonatini, and Vallejo were calculated risks and we can see there has been an exit strategy that didn't hurt us.

 

[Deleted member 3545]

So why not target top 6? Don’t see any reason to accept a target that includes us going backwards.

isnt 5th and 6th top 6?? ffs

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

The bashing of Traore on here is hard to explain.
One of very few players that played for us yesterday that looked worldclass against a good opponent in Sevilla.
IF Traore leaves,we will not be able to replace him.

still think his best position is wide right

 

[RobB]

We haven't improved this season we have maintained a top half finish, done very well in individual games but failed when we needed to step up in the important games. Nuno is negative and his idea of sitting back for 60/70 mins does not make exciting football in fact we're as boring as hell to watch except for the odd game. Neutrals don't see us as an attacking team because we aren't we are designed not to attack until near the end, it's not pretty.

We did overachieve last year, then we had Europa League and second season syndrome, so finishing where we did last season is a great achievement.

We are very boring to watch though, we play that cagey Portuguese style I have always loathed and we rarely hammer teams, but it is successful.

 

[kentish wolf]

On talk sport about 6pm Adrian Durham asked a bookmaker the odds on Wolves being relegated
Next season.Does he think that we will lose most of our squad?
I didn't hear the whole conversation but he was as quoted a price of 35/1

 

[Mrs E]

On talk sport about 6pm Adrian Durham asked a bookmaker the odds on Wolves being relegated
Next season.Does he think that we will lose most of our squad?
I didn't hear the whole conversation but he was as quoted a price of 35/1

41/1 same as Leicester