The Rules

[Lobo de Ouro]

Just had a scoot through the FAs official rules after the 'deflected handball penalty' given against us today.

They've removed a few specific words that were included in the past, which have totally made it a matter of opinion, rather than any level of consistency... (replacing "did" with "deemed to have..." for example)... it's clearly as ambiguous as possible so they can always claim they are right.

Basically a total **** show.


What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

 

[Fenrir_]

What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

They’ve ****ed about with the rules so much most of us don’t have a clue what they are anymore.

 

[WV10Wolf]

They’ve ****ed about with the rules so much most of us don’t have a clue what they are anymore.

Was it the Dorking Wanderers manager on a podcast that said they’ve changed the handball law 3 times in 6 years? (Or something ridiculous like that)

 

[Chisels_n_ommers]

The pre-pubescent ref gave it and they didn't want to risk his dad going down to stockley to duff up the var officials

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

The rules only apply when it suits

 

[Contrarian]

Just had a scoot through the FAs official rules after the 'deflected handball penalty' given against us today.

They've removed a few specific words that were included in the past, which have totally made it a matter of opinion, rather than any level of consistency... (replacing "did" with "deemed to have..." for example)... it's clearly as ambiguous as possible so they can always claim they are right.

Basically a total **** show.


What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

We'll be fine on that 6 second rule, because Sa is hell bent on giving the ball back to the opposition far quicker than that!

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Just had a scoot through the FAs official rules after the 'deflected handball penalty' given against us today.

They've removed a few specific words that were included in the past, which have totally made it a matter of opinion, rather than any level of consistency... (replacing "did" with "deemed to have..." for example)... it's clearly as ambiguous as possible so they can always claim they are right.

Basically a total **** show.


What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

Literally about 3 weeks after it was introduced I remember a game at Newcastle where the ref enforced it. At the time I think the rule was ridiculously '5 or 6 seconds' and they timed it at 5.5. I think Newcastle conceded from the free kick and I've never seen it used since.

All of that is from my unrelaible memory though.

On the key point, the whole thing for me has come out of the desire to remove 'intent' and have 'objectivity'. I'm all for a pen if a player spreads his arms to block a shot, but how is Gomes supposed to know that the ball is going to ricochet up onto his hand. No actual football fan thinks that should be a pen.

 

[Lobo de Ouro]

Literally about 3 weeks after it was introduced I remember a game at Newcastle where the ref enforced it. At the time I think the rule was ridiculously '5 or 6 seconds' and they timed it at 5.5. I think Newcastle conceded from the free kick and I've never seen it used since.

All of that is from my unrelaible memory though.

On the key point, the whole thing for me has come out of the desire to remove 'intent' and have 'objectivity'. I'm all for a pen if a player spreads his arms to block a shot, but how is Gomes supposed to know that the ball is going to ricochet up onto his hand. No actual football fan thinks that should be a pen.

Yeah, hence why I was so amazed to discover the 6 second rule is still, and always has been in place.

As for the penalty... if, after the deflection, it doesn't hit his hand... it goes 10s of yards over everyone's head and out of the box... it was ballooning straight up... not to a Luton player.

 

[Monketron]

Clear as day the officials have had it in for us since we made that official complaint.

 

[BCWolf]

Just had a scoot through the FAs official rules after the 'deflected handball penalty' given against us today.

They've removed a few specific words that were included in the past, which have totally made it a matter of opinion, rather than any level of consistency... (replacing "did" with "deemed to have..." for example)... it's clearly as ambiguous as possible so they can always claim they are right.

Basically a total **** show.


What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

Canada v USA, Women's 2012 London Olympics semi-final.

Norwegian ref (zero qualifications, not sure she ever reffed again), verbally abused and harrased by American players all game, gives a bull**** 6 second call against Canadian goalie in extra time.

Americans score from FK, game over. Freaking joke.

I've a friend who was with the Canadian women's program at that time that maintain ref must have been tapped-up in that game.

 

[Darvo]

The penalty decision shouldn’t deflect from a totally abject performance, but I’d be interested to hear what the resident refs on here have to say.

Under the current laws of the game, is that a penalty? @Jonzy54?

 

[Jefe]

The penalty decision was another stinker to add to the collection. When you lean in challenging to block a ball, you throw your arm out as a counterbalance so you don't fall over; imagine Gomes going for that with both arms down. The shot was blasted at him from point blank range, ricocheting off his foot to his arm, which was not in an unnatural position in that instance. There was virtually nothing he could've done to prevent it. A decision given, and reinforced, by people who have not played the game.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Sherwood, Lineker and (of all folks) Mike Dean have all weighed in, and said it was a ridiculously poor call.

Incoming apology no doubt from Howie Webb any moment now ...

 

[old wittonian]

Sherwood, Lineker and (of all folks) Mike Dean have all weighed in, and said it was a ridiculously poor call.

Incoming apology no doubt from Howie Webb any moment now ...

It'll already be there since about 3 weeks ago.

 

[jrpb-3]

Had a look myself too, couldn’t find anything definitive in wording about ball being deflected. Main criteria are if arm is in a natural position, and arm above shoulder generally seen as not a natural position. So based on that probably a correct decision according to the rather ambiguous rules which isn’t what I first thought

EDIT found the section on proximity and ball deflecting and changing trajectory off another part of the body. So not handball. These clauses are there for exactly the situation that happened if they don’t apply in that situation then why are they there at all. So ref and VAR just got it completely wrong again !!

 

[Sammy Chungs Tracksuit]

The PGMOL unofficial rules are "In the event of a deflection of a ball travelling at pace from a defenders body onto his arm the VAR must apply a decision based on the first true statement from the following :"

(01) Is the penalty against Li-VAR-pool - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(02) Is the penalty for Li-VAR-pool - VAR decision PENALTY
(03) Is the penalty against Man Utd - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(04) Is the penalty for Man Utd - VAR decision PENALTY
(05) Is the penalty against Arsenal - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(06) Is the penalty for Arsenal - VAR decision PENALTY
(07) Is the penalty against Man City - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(08) Is the penalty for Man City - VAR decision PENALTY
(09) Is the penalty against Spurs or Chelsea - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(09) Is the penalty for Spurs or Chelsea - VAR decision PENALTY
(10) Is the penalty against Wolves - VAR decision PENALTY
(11) Is the penalty against a team that have been ****ing you off - VAR decision PENALTY
(12) If none of the above is true - VAR decision NO PENALTY

 

[Ercall Wolves]

According to the rules of the premier league it should not have been a penalty against us today

 

[Jawwfc]

The PGMOL unofficial rules are "In the even of a deflection of a ball travelling at pace from a defenders body onto his arm the VAR must apply a decision based on the first true statement from the following :"

(01) Is the penalty against Li-VAR-pool - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(02) Is the penalty for Li-VAR-pool - VAR decision PENALTY
(03) Is the penalty against Man Utd - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(04) Is the penalty for Man Utd - VAR decision PENALTY
(05) Is the penalty against Arsenal - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(06) Is the penalty for Arsenal - VAR decision PENALTY
(07) Is the penalty against Man City - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(08) Is the penalty for Man City - VAR decision PENALTY
(09) Is the penalty against Spurs or Chelsea - VAR decision NO PENALTY
(09) Is the penalty for Spurs or Chelsea - VAR decision PENALTY
(10) Is the penalty against Wolves - VAR decision PENALTY
(11) Is the penalty against a team that have been ****ing you off - VAR decision PENALTY
(12) If none of the above us true - VAR decision NO PENALTY

There is no point even complaining about the officials as Wolves, Nuno called out Lee Mason for incompetency long before anyone else... he got a 25K fine, Arteta calls out Mason, ( a far less experienced manager than Nuno ) and its the end of Mason.

I'm sure if today's Penalty decision had gone against Pep, Klopp, Arteta or one of the pundits favourites such as Kompany then today's clown would have been spending a long time in the Championship as its gone against Wolves I'd expect to see him return shortly.

I've never understood the obsession with having a English referees, as a league we take managers, owners, players, scouts, physios you name it from all corners of the globe, the refereeing in European games tends to be a class above the dross decisions we watch week in week out in Premier League surely we could find better talent abroad, although the PL did try this once and ended up with Jarred Gillet.

 

[Jonzy54]

The penalty decision shouldn’t deflect from a totally abject performance, but I’d be interested to hear what the resident refs on here have to say.

Under the current laws of the game, is that a penalty? @Jonzy54?

No it wasn’t but I suppose it was given because his hand was that high up .It took one ,possibly two deflections before it hit his hand though ,and you can bet your bottom dollar that would never be given against a top 6 side .

 

[OLDGOLD]

The penalty decision was another stinker to add to the collection. When you lean in challenging to block a ball, you throw your arm out as a counterbalance so you don't fall over; imagine Gomes going for that with both arms down. The shot was blasted at him from point blank range, ricocheting off his foot to his arm, which was not in an unnatural position in that instance. There was virtually nothing he could've done to prevent it. A decision given, and reinforced, by people who have not played the game.

Absolutely this. I stated the same on the comms thread

 

[JadeWolf]

The penalty decision was another stinker to add to the collection. When you lean in challenging to block a ball, you throw your arm out as a counterbalance so you don't fall over; imagine Gomes going for that with both arms down. The shot was blasted at him from point blank range, ricocheting off his foot to his arm, which was not in an unnatural position in that instance. There was virtually nothing he could've done to prevent it. A decision given, and reinforced, by people who have not played the game.

Not only have they never played football. I don’t think these officials even like football.

 

[maws]

Pedantic I know, but it’s laws

 

[sillytuna]

Not only have they never played football. I don’t think these officials even like football.

15 years ago when we played in our local saturday league virtually none of the refs played football. There was one who did and apparently he was a cheating foul mouthed git. As a ref he was reknowned for being the worst one. Lead to one of two times we ended up in front of the FA but we had video evidence (early mobile phones!) and the FA weren't impressed that he was wearing a kit only a higher qualified ref should have worn apparently! Timberwolf may have played in that game (brilliant 7-6 top of the table clash where Tony got sent off after several ridiculous decisions cost goals).

We used to book a ref who we knew was reliable. Brilliant chap. Controlled the game, always got respect, took no rubbish. Made normal human errors but common sense always ruled when he was in charge. The quality of the ref always had a positive (or rather, negative) impact on our matches.

I wish we could get more ex lower league players into the VAR room at least and pref on the pitch.

 

[Jonzy54]

Pedantic I know, but it’s laws

If it had hit his hand from the cross directly I would agree100% but it deflected from his foot and possibly his chest before it struck his arm .Under those circumstances they aren’t normally given which was re-affirmed by Mike Dean on Soccer Saturday.It will be interesting to hear what Dermot Gallagher has to say on Ref Watch in the morning.

 

[Jonzy54]

15 years ago when we played in our local saturday league virtually none of the refs played football. There was one who did and apparently he was a cheating foul mouthed git. As a ref he was reknowned for being the worst one. Lead to one of two times we ended up in front of the FA but we had video evidence (early mobile phones!) and the FA weren't impressed that he was wearing a kit only a higher qualified ref should have worn apparently! Timberwolf may have played in that game (brilliant 7-6 top of the table clash where Tony got sent off after several ridiculous decisions cost goals).

We used to book a ref who we knew was reliable. Brilliant chap. Controlled the game, always got respect, took no rubbish. Made normal human errors but common sense always ruled when he was in charge. The quality of the ref always had a positive (or rather, negative) impact on our matches.

I wish we could get more ex lower league players into the VAR room at least and pref on the pitch.

You used the expression’ common sense’ which has unfortunately gone out of the window these days.When I qualified my tutor was an ex Football League Referee who said ‘ There are 17 Laws of the game ,the 18th is Common sense.Your whistle is your friend to control the game and to try and keep 22 players on the pitch .Don’t go looking for issues that aren’t there and create trouble and confrontation for yourself.Trouble will find you easily enough without going looking for it ‘.
I refereed 2240 games throughout my career and whilst things didn’t always go my way or to plan ,I liked to think I knew the Laws of the game ,applied them correctly and consistently and had a reputation on the circuit for being hard but fair (obviously some managers and players would disagree )

 

[JadeWolf]

You used the expression’ common sense’ which has unfortunately gone out of the window these days.When I qualified my tutor was an ex Football League Referee who said ‘ There are 17 Laws of the game ,the 18th is Common sense.Your whistle is your friend to control the game and to try and keep 22 players on the pitch .Don’t go looking for issues that aren’t there and create trouble and confrontation for yourself.Trouble will find you easily enough without going looking for it ‘.
I refereed 2240 games throughout my career and whilst things didn’t always go my way or to plan ,I liked to think I knew the Laws of the game ,applied them correctly and consistently and had a reputation on the circuit for being hard but fair (obviously some managers and players would disagree )

Everyone who is at the game is there to watch the players, not the referee. Seems a few of the current lot need reminding of that. Stay up with play, get the basic decisions right and make sure the game flows. It can’t be that difficult, can it?

 

[Jonzy54]

Everyone who is at the game is there to watch the players, not the referee. Seems a few of the current lot need reminding of that. Stay up with play, get the basic decisions right and make sure the game flows. It can’t be that difficult, can it?

The problem is most are just robots these days and referee in a formulaic , paint by numbers style .

 

[JadeWolf]

The problem is most are just robots these days and referee in a formulaic , paint by numbers style .

I said on another thread but I look at the referees and they just don’t look like they actually like being a referee? There was one the other day and every time he gave a foul or a booking it looked like such an inconvenience. If he wants a boring, incident free run around he should start doing park run.

 

[Cousins78]

I've lost complete interest in it now, the game has become a laughing stock

 

[Willywolf]

Everyone who is at the game is there to watch the players, not the referee. Seems a few of the current lot need reminding of that. Stay up with play, get the basic decisions right and make sure the game flows. It can’t be that difficult, can it?

Funny isn’t it, the pace of the game and quality of the premier league has increased enormously since its inception, yet the officiating (despite having become part of a professional body) appears to be worse than ever. I give up expecting referees to make the right call.

VAR has taken refs’ backbones away as they expect it to bail them out if they get something wrong/miss something. The problem with that is the people running the VAR are showing they are just as incompetent and spineless as the toss pot on the pitch.

 

[maws]

If it had hit his hand from the cross directly I would agree100% but it deflected from his foot and possibly his chest before it struck his arm .Under those circumstances they aren’t normally given which was re-affirmed by Mike Dean on Soccer Saturday.It will be interesting to hear what Dermot Gallagher has to say on Ref Watch in the morning.

I mean the terminology. It’s the laws of football, as I say pedantic

 

[fev123]

I know this isnt going to be a popular opinion but in my interpretation of law 12 it was a penalty. When the deflection handball rule change came into force this was the clarification statement given by the PL when IFAB changed the rule:



As Gomes hand was neither "close to his body" as well as clearly "making his body unnaturally bigger" so he doesnt get a free pass.

This is Law 12


What puzzles me is that those rules are quite easy to find and have to be learned and updated by 14 year old refs every year. And yet we have pundits on the TV paid a lot of money who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[Hanbury_Wolf]

Just had a scoot through the FAs official rules after the 'deflected handball penalty' given against us today.

They've removed a few specific words that were included in the past, which have totally made it a matter of opinion, rather than any level of consistency... (replacing "did" with "deemed to have..." for example)... it's clearly as ambiguous as possible so they can always claim they are right.

Basically a total **** show.


What I was surprised to see is that the goalkeeper 6 second rule, is still a rule! An indirect free kick should be awarded if a goalie controls the ball with their arm or hand for 6 seconds or more.

Can anyone tell me the last time they saw that enforced?

I sometimes clockwatch these for fun. I think 28 seconds was the longest one I saw. Why not just make it 12 and enforce it?

 

[Jonzy54]

I have no problem with referees taking their time to get decisions correct but the time it takes is unacceptable and insufferable.VAR was meant to be for the clear and obvious but it has developed into psycho analysis with forensic research to come up with reasons why goals shouldn’t be awarded resulting in the negative rather than the positive side of football.We all grew up in different eras and we can all remember contentious decisions but we all moved on but since the advent of wall to wall tv coverage,social media and ultimately VAR we all have opinions based on subjectively .My love of the game that I grew up with has waned massively.Maybe our current misfortunes and travails just highlight the injustices of football in my eyes and I doubt I will ever get that love back .

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

For most fans watching games, we can decide within two replays at full speed

How does it take these clowns so long

Why can’t we hear the ref

Why can’t the ref instantly have a look on the big screen himself

It’s a joke. Absolute joke

 

[Southdownswolf]

I know this isnt going to be a popular opinion but in my interpretation of law 12 it was a penalty. When the deflection handball rule change came into force this was the clarification statement given by the PL when IFAB changed the rule:

View attachment 37487

As Gomes hand was neither "close to his body" as well as clearly "making his body unnaturally bigger" so he doesnt get a free pass.

This is Law 12

View attachment 37488
What puzzles me is that those rules are quite easy to find and have to be learned and updated by 14 year old refs every year. And yet we have pundits on the TV paid a lot of money who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

As explained by the ex players on TV, his arm is in a natural position. It may have been high, but it was natural for the actions he was taking. Therefore it shouldn't have been a penalty.
Even the refs on TV have said it shouldn't have been a penalty.

 

[Jonzy54]

I know this isnt going to be a popular opinion but in my interpretation of law 12 it was a penalty. When the deflection handball rule change came into force this was the clarification statement given by the PL when IFAB changed the rule:

View attachment 37487

As Gomes hand was neither "close to his body" as well as clearly "making his body unnaturally bigger" so he doesnt get a free pass.

This is Law 12

View attachment 37488
What puzzles me is that those rules are quite easy to find and have to be learned and updated by 14 year old refs every year. And yet we have pundits on the TV paid a lot of money who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

I know this isnt going to be a popular opinion but in my interpretation of law 12 it was a penalty. When the deflection handball rule change came into force this was the clarification statement given by the PL when IFAB changed the rule:

View attachment 37487

As Gomes hand was neither "close to his body" as well as clearly "making his body unnaturally bigger" so he doesnt get a free pass.

This is Law 12

View attachment 37488
What puzzles me is that those rules are quite easy to find and have to be learned and updated by 14 year old refs every year. And yet we have pundits on the TV paid a lot of money who clearly have no idea what they are talking about.

Which is fair enough if the ball strikes the arm directly but this didn’t happen yesterday.There have been plenty of recent examples where penalties have not been given.Mike Dean isn’t everyone’s /anyone’s favourite referee on here but he concurred 100% on Soccer Saturday yesterday that was not a penalty governed by the current edict and as O’Neil confirmed in the instructions they were all issued with before the season started.

 

[MattH]

The more I see of this 'incompetence' the harder it is to believe there isn't money changing hands behind the scenes in some way. There must be massive amounts of cash to be made from spot betting on things like VAR decisions.

Maybe they are just witless morons, but the decisions against us yesterday and at Man Utd are such basic errors anyone with basic footballing knowledge would get them right.

For me it's time to either tackle these 'mistakes' properly with a full review, or just sack of VAR as a bad mistake.

 

[Poztin]

If you sack off VAR we would’ve still had Bellegarde sent off (ref guessed) and a penalty against (ref guessed).

The people correcting the errors are not doing their intended job. Plain and simple.

VAR needs to be taken away from their cosy club to some sort of competent independent body.

Plenty of retired lower league pros would jump at the chance of a well paid job in football. Make x number of years professional playing experience a pre req of the job.