The Lee Mason incident

[Beastier]

Not another thread on Mason himself, however regarding the incident itself.

Big Sam's comments after the game - which seem to carry water - is that the team defending a freekick from potential scoring areas are typically/always given time to set themselves up to properly defend before the kick is allowed to be taken.

Why is this the case when to my mind it would be more just to give the advantage to the team that has been fouled rather than to the offending team?

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

There was a piece on talk sport with mark halsey. He said referees were instructed to not let attacking teams take the free kicks quickly around the box until the keeper is ready.

the presenter was fuming with this. It’s a free kick to the attacking side ffs. They should benefit from a free kick not have to let teams get set up.

It s a joke . The end of the Leeds game was a disgrace Saturday too. A villa player picked up the ball and walked away with it from the free kick position. The ref made Leeds take it back to original position wasting 10 seconds . Then blew up early.

Mike Riley needs to be sacked and replaced with someone that can teach these refs the basics.

Mason shouldn’t have been in charge Saturday after his recent performances and Halsey says he has been ****ed over. I agree . They’ve acknowledged his mistakes before , yet let him take charge when he clearly isn’t good enough. What good is it going to do him.

His performances should rightly be criticized but he isn’t mentally (or physically) fit to referee .

Dunk also says why doesn’t mason explain his thoughts to media? Why should they be protected ?

There is absolutely no explanation for his second whistle on Saturday - which is a farce and could cost Brighton a place in the league - yet no one knows what that whistle was for

 

[alobmbe]

I fully agree. And it's not just kicks on the edge of the box. I think a lot more should be done to punish players who prevent quick free kicks all over the pitch.

If memory serves, there was a system tried out several seasons ago - like rugby - where dissent at free kicks was punished by advancing the free kick 10 yards, but it was abandoned after a season. Perhaps this sort of idea might be revisited, instead of spending time making up stupid new offside and handball laws to promote he use of VAR?

 

[BigSteve]

It's one area of the game I've never fully understood the rules on and it seems to be left to the ref's discretion.

Reminds me of this classic:

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/lu80c4

BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | Chelsea | Poll explains free-kick decision

Quote: "We spoke to all the Premier League clubs as well as all the Football League clubs in the summer of 2003 explaining what the situation was," he added

"Former referees' chief Philip Don backed Poll's decision to allow the strike.

"The advantage should go to the non-offending team. On this occasion it was Arsenal," Don told BBC Radio Five Live.

"Referees have been told to ask the player 'do you want to take the quick free-kick?' or 'do you want me to get the wall back 9.15 metres?'

"If they say 'quick', the referee tends to move away and allow the kick."

Don was head of the referees for the Premier League and revealed all clubs were informed of free-kick options.

"We spoke to all the Premier League clubs as well as all the Football League clubs in the summer of 2003 explaining what the situation was," he added

"We gave them the option of either the quick free-kick or the 'ceremonial' free-kick. Players and clubs were aware of what referees were doing."

 

[Jonzy54]

I fully agree. And it's not just kicks on the edge of the box. I think a lot more should be done to punish players who prevent quick free kicks all over the pitch.

If memory serves, there was a system tried out several seasons ago - like rugby - where dissent at free kicks was punished by advancing the free kick 10 yards, but it was ababndoned after a season. Perhaps this sort of idea might be revisited by those who make up stupid new offside and handball laws to promote he use of VAR?

The reason why they dropped it was because the Referee had to ceremonially march the players back 10 yards and they deemed it took too long to re-organise the wall again

 

[bilstonwolf]

Should definitely be a law change to allow free kicks to be taken as soon as they're given, any opponent stopping the ball within a given distance yellow carded

 

[Sirstancullis]

I fully agree. And it's not just kicks on the edge of the box. I think a lot more should be done to punish players who prevent quick free kicks all over the pitch.

If memory serves, there was a system tried out several seasons ago - like rugby - where dissent at free kicks was punished by advancing the free kick 10 yards, but it was abandoned after a season. Perhaps this sort of idea might be revisited, instead of spending time making up stupid new offside and handball laws to promote he use of VAR?

It was abandoned due to the weakness of the officials in not enforcing it properly.

 

[Sirstancullis]

The reason why they dropped it was because the Referee had to ceremonially march the players back 10 yards and they deemed it took too long to re-organise the wall again

That shouldn't be a problem, the time should just be added on at the end.

 

[TheConcourse]

So many problems that can be solved with a yellow card.

Why do players think it’s okay to pick the ball up and walk away when they’ve conceded a free kick or throw in? Just book them. Done.

We do it and pushed the absolute limits against Leeds. The commentators called it managing the tempo of the game. I called it wasting time.

Players will do anything to get back into their shape or “manage the game”. It’s getting the point where some players are faking head injuries to buy some time. That’s an absolute disgrace.

 

[Sirstancullis]

Being a qualified ref, I acknowledge how difficult the task is and it must be far more pressurised when the world and the media are waiting for every mistake.

However, our officials do not help themselves, there seems to be a lack of common sense and laws/rules being made up as the game goes on. The law makers also have a lot to answer for, with changing laws/rules during a season which makes no sense and arguably creates inconsistencies during the competition.

The introduction of VAR has also magnified the issues and lack of clarity and inconsistencies from game to game, but also more worryingly during the same game. Riley should resign and be publicly flogged.

The thing that grates with me the most is NOT EVERY CONTACT WHEN SOMEONE HITS THE DECK IS A FOUL!!!!!!

I also wouldn't take too much notice of Halsey, Gallagher, et al as they were no great shakes themselves and can remember a plethera of matches where their performances were substandard- and that's being kind.

 

[Scott.Cooper]

The irony about the incident at the weekend, was that it should actually have been a drop-ball rather than a re-taken freekick.

When the ball is stopped in-play for something other than a foul, the result is a drop ball. Mason blew his whistle to start play, the ball was then in-play and then he blew his whistle again.

Mind you, can you imagine the outrage if Mason gave a contested drop ball rather than allow the FK again.

 

[Mr Chad]

Should definitely be a law change to allow free kicks to be taken as soon as they're given, any opponent stopping the ball within a given distance yellow carded

I suspect that's what the laws already say. The problem with enforcing this strictly though is that players then deliberately kick the ball at opponents who have not had chance to get 10 yards away, and then demand a yellow card. Seen it happen a load of times. Obviously, if its an obvious attempt to stop the kick being taken then the card should be produced.

Sam Allardyce was, as usual, spouting rubbish on Saturday about "quick free kicks are definitely not allowed" because they are !! (We conceded from one earlier this season - think it was West Ham ??)

 

[Mr Chad]

The irony about the incident at the weekend, was that it should actually have been a drop-ball rather than a re-taken freekick.

When the ball is stopped in-play for something other than a foul, the result is a drop ball. Mason blew his whistle to start play, the ball was then in-play and then he blew his whistle again.

Mind you, can you imagine the outrage if Mason gave a contested drop ball rather than allow the FK again.

I thought that as well about it should be drop ball. I would have quite liked to see a proper old fashioned drop ball 2 feet from the goal line. See how quick Mason moved then to get out of the way of the flying boots.

 

[Jonzy54]

It was abandoned due to the weakness of the officials in not enforcing it properly.

Yes but it took an age with all the arguing

 

[TheConcourse]

Are we at the point where we have too many laws for a fairly simple game?

 

[alobmbe]

I suspect that's what the laws already say. The problem with enforcing this strictly though is that players then deliberately kick the ball at opponents who have not had chance to get 10 yards away, and then demand a yellow card. Seen it happen a load of times. Obviously, if its an obvious attempt to stop the kick being taken then the card should be produced.

Sam Allardyce was, as usual, spouting rubbish on Saturday about "quick free kicks are definitely not allowed" because they are !! (We conceded from one earlier this season - think it was West Ham ??)

All you'd need is a law that states that players should make every attempt immediately to withdraw 10 yards (there may indeed be one already) and then enforce it. Players who kicked the ball at opponents would desist - it's already a dangerous strategy that is very seldom used.

 

[Jonzy54]

Are we at the point where we have too many laws for a fairly simple game?

Actually there are still only 17 Laws of the game .It’s the directives and interpretations that are the issue

 

[tamwolf]

Gary Lineker said on MOTD that he has been saying for a while that freekicks should be able to be taken as soon as the attacking side are ready, as at the moment they can lose any benefit by allowing the defending team to get into position. He said that he has presented that to FIFA as well for a rule change. Difficult to disagree with him.

He even proposed a change where a player can take a quick free kick to themselves to get play moving again. That one is a bit more controversial, but I don't think it is a bad idea and would speed the game up, rewarding teams for quick, positive thinking. A bit like a touch start in rugby.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1280243295424258048

 

[TheConcourse]

Actually there are still only 17 Laws of the game .It’s the directives and interpretations that are the issue

Learn something new every day...

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

Horses for courses really to me, in some situations you certainly lose your advantage by being fouled (think Traore hacked down 20 yards from goal and then having to beat a well organised wall and keeper, when initially you'd back him to drive onwards), but if you could just take a freekick as quickly as you want I think you could get the inverse, say you're fouled out on the wing, one of those soft ones where there's little danger and the defender crowds your back a bit and you do down, you'd see more quickly taken freekicks with little chance to block the pass into a dangerous area where that was never really a threat previously. I also don't want to see loads of scruffy freekicks going through a poorly organised wall, or a malpositioned keeper.

Maybe it'd make it more exciting, more goals, perhaps teams would need to change their awareness to be switched on at all times, I'm not really sure.

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

The reason why they dropped it was because the Referee had to ceremonially march the players back 10 yards and they deemed it took too long to re-organise the wall again

I thought it was also being abused by teams deliberately getting punished so that dangerous free kicks were nullified by being moved to the edge of the box too?

 

[Jonzy54]

I thought it was also being abused by teams deliberately getting punished so that dangerous free kicks were nullified by being moved to the edge of the box too?

There were all manner of things going on and for a variety of reasons they dropped it .A good idea in principle but typical of the powers that be it became too unwieldy in its Management and implementation.

 

[Leigh72]

There were all manner of things going on and for a variety of reasons they dropped it .A good idea in principle but typical of the powers that be it became too unwieldy in its Management and implementation.

What they should have done is let the team taking the free kick, take it from where they want, and that rule would have worked

 

[Frank Lincoln]

Can anyone tell me the last time a player was cautioned fòr kicking the ball away after a free kick has been awarded against them? It should be a mandatory yellow card, but action is rarely taken by the referee.

 

[Superted]

I think there needs to be a point at which the quick free kick ceases to be an option. Maybe 5 seconds or something. I used to be a keeper and if it was suggested that the free kick was going to be taken normally, at which point my attention would move to setting up for the free kick, then all of a sudden the opposition player just lobs the ball into the opposite corner I would be furious.

I'm all for giving the fouled team an advantage and I have nothing against quick free kicks but it's one or the other. You shouldn't be able to act like you're going to take a routine free kick then smack the ball into the net when nobody is looking. That, to me, is cheating, and you'd end up with a situation like in the rugby at the weekend, complete carnage, on a regular basis.

In rugby you can take a quick penalty or indicate that you're going for the posts but once you've indicated you're going for the posts that's it. You can't then take it quickly.

Maybe I'm naive but there is still such a thing as sportsmanship as far as I'm concerned and I don't like underhand tactics (that's why my No.1 bugbear is the tactical foul to stop a counterattack: cynical and dangerous). Now if the defending team is faffing around and trying to waste time etc. that's a different matter. There could be a balance by saying that unless the referee has indicated that he's stopped the clock (say for player treatment or something), the defending team has 20 seconds to set up for the free kick, and if they're not set up in time, tuff. That's fine as everyone would at least know where they stand.

 

[Jonzy54]

What they should have done is let the team taking the free kick, take it from where they want, and that rule would have worked

It got complicated

 

[Jonzy54]

Can anyone tell me the last time a player was cautioned fòr kicking the ball away after a free kick has been awarded against them? It should be a mandatory yellow card, but action is rarely taken by the referee.

Players are oh so cute these days

 

[Jonzy54]

Can anyone tell me the last time a player was cautioned fòr kicking the ball away after a free kick has been awarded against them? It should be a mandatory yellow card, but action is rarely taken by the referee.

A few years ago whilst refereeing a Sunday League ago there was this one player who used to pick the ball up when a free kick was given against his team.He would slowly walk back with the ball in his hand before dropping it on the floor in advance of the offence .
One day I saw him do it and when the ball was on the ground I let the opposition take a quick one from where he dropped it and they scored .He went bananas saying ‘You can’t do that ‘ and I said ‘Well you won’t do that again will you’?
Wrong maybe but I called it ‘ moral cheating’

 

[Parkfieldswolf]

As with the handball rule and the offside rules it’s a shambles. I played the game for a good amount of years and been watching it longer but I don’t know the rules anymore.

 

[Dubwolf71]

Can anyone tell me the last time a player was cautioned fòr kicking the ball away after a free kick has been awarded against them? It should be a mandatory yellow card, but action is rarely taken by the referee.

It's gone beyond a joke. I know players are thought of as a bit thick, but can't help feel that they are under instruction a lot of the time. When it was decided only to stop play for a head or serious injury, players started dropping like flies hold their face/ head to stop the opposition attack. Then getting up as soon as the whistle went.

Now with free kicks, when a player commits a foul a teammate follows up and kicks the ball away. Fernandes and McTominay are masters at it. Obviously instructed. Automatic yellow if they touch the ball after the whistle would sort it.

@Jonzy54 I was also under the impression that the law changed this season so that if the ref was going to issue a yellow for a foul and a quick free was taken, he should allow the play to continue and issue the yellow at the next stoppage in play?

 

[Jonzy54]

It's gone beyond a joke. I know players are thought of as a bit thick, but can't help feel that they are under instruction a lot of the time. When it was decided only to stop play for a head or serious injury, players started dropping like flies hold their face/ head to stop the opposition attack. Then getting up as soon as the whistle went.

Now with free kicks, when a player commits a foul a teammate follows up and kicks the ball away. Fernandes and McTominay are masters at it. Obviously instructed. Automatic yellow if they touch the ball after the whistle would sort it.

@Jonzy54 I was also under the impression that the law changed this season so that if the ref was going to issue a yellow for a foul and a quick free was taken, he should allow the play to continue and issue the yellow at the next stoppage in play?

Yes .Yellows don’t have to be given immediately.A bit like if a foul is committed in midfield he can wait to allow the play to develop and conclude before issuing it

 

[derbyrameater]

Learn something new every day...

I wonder how many 'directives' we have now compared to the past ?

 

[SA Wolf]

Agree with the majority that the benefit of the free kick should be given to the side offended against and if they want to take the kick quickly, they should be allowed to do so. All this allowing the offending side to organise, take as long as they want and then, as Mason did, force the side taking the free kick to retake it, defeats the object of the free kick in the first place.
Just another example of the 'powers that be' spoiling the game that I've loved for the majority of my life.

 

[Direwolf]

I still do not understand the decision in not awarding the goal. Clearly the second whistle blast occurred well after the ball crossed the line more like when the ball hit the back of the net. For me it was VAR trying to correct a Lee Mason **** up who allowed the free kick before the goalkeeper was ready thereby giving the free kick taker an unfair advantage (rightly or wrongly).

 

[Jonzy54]

I still do not understand the decision in not awarding the goal. Clearly the second whistle blast occurred well after the ball crossed the line more like when the ball hit the back of the net. For me it was VAR trying to correct a Lee Mason **** up who allowed the free kick before the goalkeeper was ready thereby giving the free kick taker an unfair advantage (rightly or wrongly).

It hadn’t crossed the line.When you see it side on rather than behind it goes as the ball pitches and a fraction before it crosses the line

 

[TheConcourse]

I wonder how many 'directives' we have now compared to the past ?

Judging by the outcome: 0.

 

[thetwistedsock]

David Squires today:

David Squires on … whistlegate and referees under pressure

Our cartoonist on Lee Mason’s torrid time at West Brom, VAR’s ability to measure lung capacity and Darren Drysdale’s persuasiveness

www.theguardian.com

 

[Direwolf]

It hadn’t crossed the line.When you see it side on rather than behind it goes as the ball pitches and a fraction before it crosses the line

Thankyou for that I had not seen the side on view.

 

[Stratman Wolves]

Forget Lee Mason, I wish I knew what the hell the rules on handball were now.

 

[Jonzy54]

Like a broken record I will repeat it .Refereeing standards will never ever improve whilst Mike Riley is in charge .He and his cohorts have control over who officiates on the Elite Panel and that is the fundamental problem .
How can the system allow such out of condition Referees to remain at the top table -Mason and Moss are 2 classic examples of incompetence?Start at the top and remove this embarrassing self regulating non accountable shambles