The Drop List - Overhaul Needed

[Contrarian]

It's harder to score when the opposition don't have to. We've given away too many cheap goals. Sort out the defence, maybe we could play a back 4 with the right players, maybe we could get more players forward without going 3 down in minutes.
How many times have we been criticised for being overly negative? How many times have we then opened up only to get battered?

Teams that have put three or more past us include Burnley, Brighton, west brom, West ham twice, as well as Liverpool and Man City(twice). Have I missed anyone off?

Yes, it's a fair point that is our attack having to stay back to defend too much because our defence is dodgy? Especially the pace side - overall, Boly/Coady/Saiss are good enough defensively, Boly right at the top. But they do lack pace and could this be the problem?

Several times, I've seen Neves well inside the opponents half, play a forward pass to the wing, then turn and run backwards! Now he's a smart guy and he's doing this for a reason. Presumably because we are attacking, he is thinking ahead to prevent a possible counter *if* our attack breaks down. Neves isn't exactly Roadrunner, either Would be far more attacking if he passed, then ran into the penalty area, which he will only do if we are losing so he absolutely has to.

Still think it's in the balance as to whether we *can't* get players forward or *choose* not to. At times, when we have a go, we can still look good. At 3-0 down v West Ham for example. So it is possible, however it seems very much something we now do as a last resort and only if we have to.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Its a tough one. He did walk from valencia rather than be sacked because of fan pressure. Its difficult because he hasnt had lots of jobs to build a trend. Very successful at rio ave, successful for his first 2 years at valencia, then fans sick of his playing style, then 12 months at porto where he left again because of fans unhappy with negative playing style, even though they finished second in the league

There is a significant difference between what some people, l am unsure how representative, are posting on social media and the reaction of a full house at Molineux. I genuinely am unsure what impact the former would have on Nuno. I'm sure, given the empathy that he seems to have with the fans, that criticism from the latter would have an impact.

 

[daniel corfield]

Dendoncker: good enough to start for the #1 international team in the world but yeah he's rubbish and not good enough for the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club of Molineux Stadium WV1 founded in 1877.

The same "Dendoncker" that put in a shambolic performance against Palace, the same "Dendoncker" that absolutely bottled a 50/50 yesterday? That what you want playing for us? Someone who can't even put a tackle in for us? He's absolutely disgusting. On every single level.
Lack of quality I can deal with, lack of commitment for the team I can't.
Get the **** out of my club.

 

[bod101]

That's going to cost probably £200M.

Where does the money come from for that?

why 200 mil?

30 mil each and its 120.

 

[BigSteve]

The same "Dendoncker" that put in a shambolic performance against Palace, the same "Dendoncker" that absolutely bottled a 50/50 yesterday? That what you want playing for us? Someone who can't even put a tackle in for us? He's absolutely disgusting. On every single level.
Lack of quality I can deal with, lack of commitment for the team I can't.
Get the **** out of my club.

Why are you putting his name in quotation marks? Do you believe that is not his real name?

Yes, I want him playing for us.

 

[Warrington_Wolf]

The issue is, the recruitment has been so poor for the last couple of seasons that we have left ourselves in a position where we need 3/4 genuine first XI players in just to get back to the required standard.

Ideally, we need a window like summer '18 - Traore, Patricio, Moutinho, Jonny, Dendoncker, Jimenez

 

[BigSteve]

The issue is, the recruitment has been so poor for the last couple of seasons that we have left ourselves in a position where we need 3/4 genuine first XI players in just to get back to the required standard.

Ideally, we need a window like summer '18 - Traore, Patricio, Moutinho, Jonny, Dendoncker, Jimenez

Agreed. Exacerbated by the fact we have absolutely key players out with long-term injuries, with no guarantee that they'll all return to their peak levels.

 

[Axle]

why 200 mil?

30 mil each and its 120.

I'm still gutted we let Mutch go on a free.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

I'm still gutted we let Mutch go on a free.

andy mutch got to the top division before we did

 

[Yamalroite]

I don't want donck gone but he can't be starting games for us regularly. Utility squad player at best.

He starts for the number one ranked international team in in the world, surely good enough to start for us?

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Yes, it's a fair point that is our attack having to stay back to defend too much because our defence is dodgy? Especially the pace side - overall, Boly/Coady/Saiss are good enough defensively, Boly right at the top. But they do lack pace and could this be the problem?

Several times, I've seen Neves well inside the opponents half, play a forward pass to the wing, then turn and run backwards! Now he's a smart guy and he's doing this for a reason. Presumably because we are attacking, he is thinking ahead to prevent a possible counter *if* our attack breaks down. Neves isn't exactly Roadrunner, either Would be far more attacking if he passed, then ran into the penalty area, which he will only do if we are losing so he absolutely has to.

Still think it's in the balance as to whether we *can't* get players forward or *choose* not to. At times, when we have a go, we can still look good. At 3-0 down v West Ham for example. So it is possible, however it seems very much something we now do as a last resort and only if we have to.

Boly Saiss and Coady haven't been good enough defensively time and time again this season. Were we beaten by pace for the first goal? Or a missed header?
The evidence is racking up against them as the season goes on I'm afraid. Going forwards we are missing Raul, and his replacements haven't been up to scratch. I think we are too slow in possession on top of that, but I'm pretty sure Raul would have scored more than 1 in 12 in the last run of games that Jose has had.
But this is supposed to be our first choice defence, and they have looked amateurish yet again. Burnley started the game on 4 less goals than us for the season. We made them look like world beaters.

 

[Contrarian]

Boly Saiss and Coady haven't been good enough defensively time and time again this season. Were we beaten by pace for the first goal? Or a missed header?
The evidence is racking up against them as the season goes on I'm afraid. Going forwards we are missing Raul, and his replacements haven't been up to scratch. I think we are too slow in possession on top of that, but I'm pretty sure Raul would have scored more than 1 in 12 in the last run of games that Jose has had.
But this is supposed to be our first choice defence, and they have looked amateurish yet again. Burnley started the game on 4 less goals than us for the season. We made them look like world beaters.

We sit back and let the opponents have the ball for so much of the time - inside our own half, too. Without any pressing until they get to our third. We spend so little time in the opponents final third. Playing like that invites mistakes.

The looked amateurish on very few occasions, compared to the number of times they have looked solid, this season. Free scoring Leeds couldn't score against us. Looking down the list of results, plenty of matches where our opponents scored "0" or "1". It's when your goals For is also mostly 0 and 1, that that one defensive mistake is costly.

We've conceded only 2 goals more than West Ham who are 5th. We've scored only 2 more than Albion, who are 19th and lets be honest, no hopers at this level with their minimal spending compared to us.

If a defender makes a mistake and we lose 1-0 next match, will that be more evidence racking up against our defence? Or that we can't score against a team who concedes goals easily? To teams who actually set out to attack them, of course.

Switch it around, when has our attack ever scored 4 than opponent in the PL (under Nuno, not Mick)? Or ever looked likely to? Against defences FAR worse than ours! Never. Because we are set out ultra-cautious and on the (now rare) occasion we take the lead, it's all back to our own penalty area. It invites defensive errors!

Blame is throughout the team. Midfield doesn't do enough. Attack doesn't hold the ball well enough. And the entire team has this ultra-cautious fearful approach and reluctance to take risks. Mentality has to play a part too. Noticed how often (not yesterday, but usually) we improve once we go a goal or 2 or 3 down and *have* to attack? That is attitude, it cant be the players as it's the same Boly/Saiss/Donk etc all along. Suddenly, like when 0-3 down to West Ham, those same players *can* play flowing football. They must surely be being told and coached not to do that at 0-0.

 

[Deleted member 11332]

He starts for the number one ranked international team in in the world, surely good enough to start for us?

When he does start, it's in a completely different role than we require of him, it's either neves or him for me not both. He plays in midfield with Kevin Dr Bruyne and Tielemans for Belgium 2 attack minded players. He's not a shoe in either, witsel starts just as many games.

Nacer chadli starts games for them aswell maybe we should shift Neto and stick him in.

 

[Superted]

If you look up stats for goalkeepers, he's consistently at the bottom or near it in the Premier League.

The Numbers Don't Lie When It Comes To Ranking Premier League Goalkeepers

Traditional stats just don't do justice to the modern goalkeeper.

the18.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1359214925349011461

Pardon my ignorance but are there any of our outfield players consistently performing as expected or better this season?

Like I said he's not been in great form recently but he has had a fairly long career so far and has been a very, very good keeper for pretty much all of that career.

There are a lot of other players I'd consider getting rid of before binning off Patricio.

 

[Biffana wolf]

Dendoncker: good enough to start for the #1 international team in the world but yeah he's rubbish and not good enough for the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club of Molineux Stadium WV1 founded in 1877.

Difference is that team can afford to carry a passenger we are carrying quite a few him included.

 

[Biffana wolf]

Yes, it's a fair point that is our attack having to stay back to defend too much because our defence is dodgy? Especially the pace side - overall, Boly/Coady/Saiss are good enough defensively, Boly right at the top. But they do lack pace and could this be the problem?

Several times, I've seen Neves well inside the opponents half, play a forward pass to the wing, then turn and run backwards! Now he's a smart guy and he's doing this for a reason. Presumably because we are attacking, he is thinking ahead to prevent a possible counter *if* our attack breaks down. Neves isn't exactly Roadrunner, either Would be far more attacking if he passed, then ran into the penalty area, which he will only do if we are losing so he absolutely has to.

Still think it's in the balance as to whether we *can't* get players forward or *choose* not to. At times, when we have a go, we can still look good. At 3-0 down v West Ham for example. So it is possible, however it seems very much something we now do as a last resort and only if we have to.

If you analyse just yesterday burnley lost the ball but worked hard to win it back. They moving forward we retreat but had all 11 behind the ball forwards have to put pressure in there back 4. But as we had 2 in midfield they had 4 so even with us dropping couldn't compete. Juminez injury affected a bit but we wond 5 of the first 10 games and won 6 of the last 23. Without those early wins we would be going down.
Big questions to be asked big investment needed I dont see either happening.

 

[Loefah]

Pardon my ignorance but are there any of our outfield players consistently performing as expected or better this season?

Like I said he's not been in great form recently but he has had a fairly long career so far and has been a very, very good keeper for pretty much all of that career.

There are a lot of other players I'd consider getting rid of before binning off Patricio.

Not many. Neto was the most improved player in the whole Premier League, so that's a huge plus. Moutinho and Traore had the biggest decreases season over season. Stats to the end of January.

The 10 most improved players in the Premier League this season

Jack Grealish, Ilkay Gündogan and Pedro Neto are hitting new heights – unlike Willian, Lucas Moura and Nicolas Pépé

www.theguardian.com

 

[Timberwolf]

Dendoncker: good enough to start for the #1 international team in the world but yeah he's rubbish and not good enough for the mighty Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club of Molineux Stadium WV1 founded in 1877.

Lol...Doesn’t mean every player in the Belgian squad is World Class.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

[

We sit back and let the opponents have the ball for so much of the time - inside our own half, too. Without any pressing until they get to our third. We spend so little time in the opponents final third. Playing like that invites mistakes.

The looked amateurish on very few occasions, compared to the number of times they have looked solid, this season. Free scoring Leeds couldn't score against us. Looking down the list of results, plenty of matches where our opponents scored "0" or "1". It's when your goals For is also mostly 0 and 1, that that one defensive mistake is costly.

We've conceded only 2 goals more than West Ham who are 5th. We've scored only 2 more than Albion, who are 19th and lets be honest, no hopers at this level with their minimal spending compared to us.

If a defender makes a mistake and we lose 1-0 next match, will that be more evidence racking up against our defence? Or that we can't score against a team who concedes goals easily? To teams who actually set out to attack them, of course.

Switch it around, when has our attack ever scored 4 than opponent in the PL (under Nuno, not Mick)? Or ever looked likely to? Against defences FAR worse than ours! Never. Because we are set out ultra-cautious and on the (now rare) occasion we take the lead, it's all back to our own penalty area. It invites defensive errors!

Blame is throughout the team. Midfield doesn't do enough. Attack doesn't hold the ball well enough. And the entire team has this ultra-cautious fearful approach and reluctance to take risks. Mentality has to play a part too. Noticed how often (not yesterday, but usually) we improve once we go a goal or 2 or 3 down and *have* to attack? That is attitude, it cant be the players as it's the same Boly/Saiss/Donk etc all along. Suddenly, like when 0-3 down to West Ham, those same players *can* play flowing football. They must surely be being told and coached not to do that at 0-0.

If we'd lost one nil i wouldn't have been blaming the defence at all. But the game was over by half time really, and Burnley's key chances all have massive whopping great mistakes in them.

If Raul was fit I think we'd have easily another 10 goals. Look at Jose since he came in. 1 in 12 is really quite something when you look at the strikers in the division doing better than him. Against Burnley he literally didn't win a single header. Has he played anyone else in in that time? Fabio silva looks light years ahead of him already. We would have been better keeping cutrone.

Our defence is just not under as much pressure as say: West hams defence. We average more possesion than West ham. A higher pass success rate than west ham. Incidentally we average more shots per game than them too, not that it matters if they are from

And in selectively picking west ham you could equally point at Fulham now having a better defence than us. Jonny aside, this is pretty much our first choice defence! We have Raul to come back. We have Fabio who is still in pampers. We have Neto missing. I can see ways we could improve in that department, hell we could even if we move the ball a bit quicker!
That back three/4/5 is as good as it's going to get without either deciding to put kilman in, or buying new players in.

 

[WickedWolfie]

[
If we'd lost one nil i wouldn't have been blaming the defence at all. But the game was over by half time really, and Burnley's key chances all have massive whopping great mistakes in them.

If Raul was fit I think we'd have easily another 10 goals. Look at Jose since he came in. 1 in 12 is really quite something when you look at the strikers in the division doing better than him. Against Burnley he literally didn't win a single header. Has he played anyone else in in that time? Fabio silva looks light years ahead of him already. We would have been better keeping cutrone.

Our defence is just not under as much pressure as say: West hams defence. We average more possesion than West ham. A higher pass success rate than west ham. Incidentally we average more shots per game than them too, not that it matters if they are from

And in selectively picking west ham you could equally point at Fulham now having a better defence than us. Jonny aside, this is pretty much our first choice defence! We have Raul to come back. We have Fabio who is still in pampers. We have Neto missing. I can see ways we could improve in that department, hell we could even if we move the ball a bit quicker!
That back three/4/5 is as good as it's going to get without either deciding to put kilman in, or buying new players in.

Depressing but much of it rings true.

 

[Contrarian]

[
If we'd lost one nil i wouldn't have been blaming the defence at all. But the game was over by half time really, and Burnley's key chances all have massive whopping great mistakes in them.

If Raul was fit I think we'd have easily another 10 goals. Look at Jose since he came in. 1 in 12 is really quite something when you look at the strikers in the division doing better than him. Against Burnley he literally didn't win a single header. Has he played anyone else in in that time? Fabio silva looks light years ahead of him already. We would have been better keeping cutrone.

Our defence is just not under as much pressure as say: West hams defence. We average more possesion than West ham. A higher pass success rate than west ham. Incidentally we average more shots per game than them too, not that it matters if they are from

And in selectively picking west ham you could equally point at Fulham now having a better defence than us. Jonny aside, this is pretty much our first choice defence! We have Raul to come back. We have Fabio who is still in pampers. We have Neto missing. I can see ways we could improve in that department, hell we could even if we move the ball a bit quicker!
That back three/4/5 is as good as it's going to get without either deciding to put kilman in, or buying new players in.

Some good points, I've now forgotten what we were disagreeing on Oh yes, whether our attack or our defence is the cause of our woes. Maybe it's the midfield, all along?

Anyway, I agree that yesterday, individual errors cost us goals..but individual defensive errors causing us to drop points seems the exception to me. More often, it's the lackluster attack misfiring (and this goes back to last season, e.g. the Brighton 0-0 before lockdown when fielding a full team). And other matches with defensive errors - Liverpool springs to mind, we were doing OK, till Coady went AWOL - I still suspect eventually we would have been overwhelmed due to how we play.

I guess its' all swings and roundabouts, we need both to be operating better. Even recently, seen several times people say that our defensive error and/or bad decision that gave Burnley the penalty at end of last season, cost us a Europe League place. Or not defending a corner v Sheff U and so on. But surely, it's as valid to say if we scored but 1 goal in that 0-0 v Brighton, then none of those others would have mattered? That's what I'm getting at, our paucity of goals means every decision, every mistake becomes crucial.

As for Fulham, yes there problem is absolutely their powderpuff attack, they can't score goals. If they could, they'd be level with us in the table!

Anyway, on our "mostly" sound defence, I do think a lot of it is organisation and approach, ahead of individual ability. Including having 2 midfielders spending most of the match helping the defence out, rather than pushing forward. Maybe central defenders of better natural ability would get us away from that?

 

[WickedWolfie]

Some good points, I've now forgotten what we were disagreeing on Oh yes, whether our attack or our defence is the cause of our woes. Maybe it's the midfield, all along?

Anyway, I agree that yesterday, individual errors cost us goals..but individual defensive errors causing us to drop points seems the exception to me. More often, it's the lackluster attack misfiring (and this goes back to last season, e.g. the Brighton 0-0 before lockdown when fielding a full team).

I guess its' all swings and roundabouts, we need both to be operating better. Even recently, seen several times people say that our defensive error and/or bad decision that gave Burnley the penalty at end of last season, cost us a Europe League place. Or not defending a corner v Sheff U and so on. But surely, it's as valid to say if we scored but 1 goal in that 0-0 v Brighton, then none of those others would have mattered? That's what I'm getting at, our paucity of goals means every decision, every mistake becomes crucial.

As for Fulham, yes there problem is absolutely their powderpuff attack, they can't score goals. If they could, they'd be level with us in the table!

Anyway, on our "mostly" sound defence, I do think a lot of it is organisation and approach, ahead of individual ability. Including having 2 midfielders spending most of the match helping the defence out, rather than pushing forward. Maybe central defenders of better natural ability would get us away from that?

I wouldn't argue with your last para.

 

[BigSteve]

Lol...Doesn’t mean every player in the Belgian squad is World Class.

Right, because I said he was wOrLd cLAsS, didn't I?

 

[Timberwolf]

Right, because I said he was wOrLd cLAsS, didn't I?

Erm,...you did use the fact that he played for the ‘No1 international team’ to justify why we should have him at Wolves. What other conclusion could I have grasped if not that you believed this made him special.
Derr...!