Stadium Plans

[WasStefan]

Molineux is in a perfect position for the citiy centre's prosperity and progression for the future. Just look how Wolverhampton and all the surrounding town centres have lost out over the past 40 years to out of town shopping centre malls. For example Dudley and the Merry Hill Shopping Centre killed Dudley's town centre.
If WWFC were to move near the M54 the city centre would lose that much business on match day that Wolverhampton would become a ghost town imho. The pubs and business on match day in Wolverhampton are dependent on the thousands of Wolves supports business and money for sure.

We would be absolutely insane to give up our city centre club status. Crazy idea some keep suggesting & i cannot get my head round it.

We aint gonna have any stadium redev with these owners. And certainty not a move to Carvers, although it is an interesting idea. The land around that area is earmarked for office development with hotels etc, so could be an idea in the future.

But as i say never happening under Chinese ownership. Ok it’s a bit of a stereotype but look at every Chinese takeaway u drive past on the way home from work today. They run their properties into the ground and get every penny they can before investing in it. Must be a culture thing

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

We aint gonna have any stadium redev with these owners. And certainty not a move to Carvers, although it is an interesting idea. The land around that area is earmarked for office development with hotels etc, so could be an idea in the future.

But as i say never happening under Chinese ownership. Ok it’s a bit of a stereotype but look at every Chinese takeaway u drive past on the way home from work today. They run their properties into the ground and get every penny they can before investing in it. Must be a culture thing

Fosun would never build something stylish just for the sake of it.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

The only site near the city center big enough to fit a football stadium on is west park.

 

[WasStefan]

Fosun would never build something stylish just for the sake of it.
View attachment 37241

Is that the head office?

For Wolves there is no real short term upside in them rebuilding or renovating the ground. Wolves value is more or less solely based on PL status. That’s the reality

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

Is that the head office?

For Wolves there is no real short term upside in them rebuilding or renovating the ground. Wolves value is more or less solely based on PL status. That’s the reality

No, it's a cultural centre, it sort of shows that Fosun can invest for a stylish statement, and prestige, the sort of thing I dreamed off when they arrived, but sadly they just wanted to make money - bloody communists / capitalists, whatever they are!

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

We aint gonna have any stadium redev with these owners. And certainty not a move to Carvers, although it is an interesting idea. The land around that area is earmarked for office development with hotels etc, so could be an idea in the future.

But as i say never happening under Chinese ownership. Ok it’s a bit of a stereotype but look at every Chinese takeaway u drive past on the way home from work today. They run their properties into the ground and get every penny they can before investing in it. Must be a culture thing

Might be worth having a look at China mate rather than the Chinese takeaways here.

As a country they’ve got far more cutting edge architecture than us, it’s where a lot of their investment over the last decade or two has gone.

The biggest stumbling block for them is having to deal with UK developers!

 

[WasStefan]

Might be worth having a look at China mate rather than the Chinese takeaways here.

As a country they’ve got far more cutting edge architecture than us, it’s where a lot of their investment over the last decade or two has gone.

The biggest stumbling block for them is having to deal with UK developers!

But we aren’t in China. We’re in Wolverhampton

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

But we aren’t in China. We’re in Wolverhampton

And they're a multinational with £100b in assets, not a family of immigrants trying to make a living.

 

[WasStefan]

And they're a multinational with £100b in assets, not a family of immigrants trying to make a living.

So you’d think such an org would invest in a stadium. £250m to them is piecemeal

But they won’t, for all the reasons i mentioned above

 

[WasStefan]

Chinese companies are only interested in investing if

1/ it makes financial sense, which for Wolves it probably doesn’t if it results in even less investment in the squad
2/ it gains political influence, see previous potential investment in HS2, Hinckley Point, 5G roll out etc etc

Now couple that aside from the top 6, and aside from London based clubs, there is little return in investment in redeveloping stadia. We aren’t in London and we aren’t top 6. Prices of tickets have been put up and seem to be meeting a balance point in demand. So we probably don’t need a bigger stadium anyway at these prices, if anything it’s probably corporate seats that need development, but that would go down well.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

So you’d think such an org would invest in a stadium. £250m to them is piecemeal

But they won’t, for all the reasons i mentioned above

Yes, (although £250m is massively optimistic), your Chinese Takeaway analogy just looked a bit odd. They're a business, treating us as a business venture, not a vanity project sadly. I think what you're referring to as Chinese culture is just business culture, don't invest unless you'll see a return.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

We would be absolutely insane to give up our city centre club status. Crazy idea some keep suggesting & i cannot get my head round it.

We aint gonna have any stadium redev with these owners. And certainty not a move to Carvers, although it is an interesting idea. The land around that area is earmarked for office development with hotels etc, so could be an idea in the future.

But as i say never happening under Chinese ownership. Ok it’s a bit of a stereotype but look at every Chinese takeaway u drive past on the way home from work today. They run their properties into the ground and get every penny they can before investing in it. Must be a culture thing

A "culture" thing? How many million people of ethnic Chinese origin have you just lumped together in one ridiculous generalisation? The thing that the run down Chinese takeaways you have observed have in common might just be that they are in similar British urban areas, many of which are themselves run down and disrespected by their inhabitants. Is the fact that so many of our cities and towns are in the state they are a culture thing? Are the British all the same as well?

 

[Mutchy]

A "culture" thing? How many million people of ethnic Chinese origin have you just lumped together in one ridiculous generalisation? The thing that the run down Chinese takeaways you have observed have in common might just be that they are in similar British urban areas, many of which are themselves run down and disrespected by their inhabitants. Is the fact that so many of our cities and towns are in the state they are a culture thing? Are the British all the same as well?

I think this is my reaction too.
Be careful not to make sweeping statements about a whole people please Stefan.

 

[WasStefan]

A "culture" thing? How many million people of ethnic Chinese origin have you just lumped together in one ridiculous generalisation? The thing that the run down Chinese takeaways you have observed have in common might just be that they are in similar British urban areas, many of which are themselves run down and disrespected by their inhabitants. Is the fact that so many of our cities and towns are in the state they are a culture thing? Are the British all the same as well?

Most of our poverty stricken areas are down to rubbish politics. Completely different argument

 

[WasStefan]

I think this is my reaction too.
Be careful not to make sweeping statements about a whole people please Stefan.

Ok now go and put yourself in a Chinese sub urb outside of their second city, yeah nice buildings here and there, but some people on here going on like it’s some sort modern architectural utopia are deluded. Culture shock indeed

My point is they’re smart, they have an asset and they will run it into the ground to generate a living/ profit, nothing wrong with that. You can take it as a bad generalisation if u want and try to label me as a racist but whatever. I aint.

 

[Mutchy]

Ok now go and put yourself in a Chinese sub urb outside of their second city, yeah nice buildings here and there, but some people on here going on like it’s some sort modern architectural utopia are deluded. Culture shock indeed

My point is they’re smart, they have an asset and they will run it into the ground to generate a living/ profit, nothing wrong with that. You can take it as a bad generalisation if u want and try to label me as a racist but whatever. I aint.

'They'. Okay I think this needs to stop here.

 

[SevernWolf]

Yes, all of this is true, but given the current economic climate, interest rates, inflation, poor post Covid recovery, the effects of Brexit, uncertainty in the property market, a continuing war in Europe, stagnation in the leisure industry, the lead up to a general election and a good few other depressing indicators, it is unlikely anyone; current owners, new owners, independent investors, local government, or national government would initiate, or support, such a project in the near future.

I'm not suggesting that they should do the work right now. I'm saying that there are some huge advantages to having a city centre stadium rather than one in a field in Staffordshire.

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I'm not suggesting that they should do the work right now. I'm saying that there are some huge advantages to having a city centre stadium rather than one in a field in Staffordshire.

Agree completely with that. You are also right that a city centre stadium would fit with a realistic and sustainable project to build the club for the future. We do have to play to our strengths, build on those unique aspects of our culture and realise our limitations. I hope we do get the chance to take such a project forward on and off the pitch and the fact that it may not all come to fruition immediately doesn't mean we can't plan for it and build towards it. I would love to see our owners, be it the current ones or new ones, set out some medium and long term plans to this effect. I'd rather have this than any number of popularlist boasts about making us the next Man City, or any pie in the sky schemes to build unnecessarily vast super-stadiums.

 

[surreywolf]

Ok it’s a bit of a stereotype but look at every Chinese takeaway u drive past on the way home from work today. They run their properties into the ground and get every penny they can before investing in it. Must be a culture thing

a "bit of a stereotype" is quite possibly the biggest understatement i have ever seen on here. and that's saying something

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I think the whole “multi use” aspect of the stadium is pie in the sky. The infrastructure just isn’t there and we’ll always play second fiddle as a city to birmingham in that respect. Imagine organising a work conference for a couple of thousand people. The road network wouldn’t cope, not enough parking, public transport is awful and if delegates want to go for a few beers and a meal after the options in Wolverhampton are shocking. Coventry tried to utilise the Ricoh when first built for conferences and they had the same problems

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

I think the whole “multi use” aspect of the stadium is pie in the sky. The infrastructure just isn’t there and we’ll always play second fiddle as a city to birmingham in that respect. Imagine organising a work conference for a couple of thousand people. The road network wouldn’t cope, not enough parking, public transport is awful and if delegates want to go for a few beers and a meal after the options in Wolverhampton are shocking. Coventry tried to utilise the Ricoh when first built for conferences and they had the same problems

It didn't help that Ricoh was in the middle of nowhere. As someone said earlier in this thread the city centre location and rail links can play to an advantage. It's a matter of marketing facilities and events smarter, not attempting to compete with other venues and areas that have clear advantages. It would not be easy and it certainly looks unlikely to be an attractive proposition to investors in the near future.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

It didn't help that Ricoh was in the middle of nowhere. As someone said earlier in this thread the city centre location and rail links can play to an advantage. It's a matter of marketing facilities and events smarter, not attempting to compete with other venues and areas that have clear advantages. It would not be easy and it certainly looks unlikely to be an attractive proposition to investors in the near future.

I don’t see how we compete with the offering Birmingham has as a city. It’s night and day.

 

[bod101]

I don’t see how we compete with the offering Birmingham has as a city. It’s night and day.

there was a time we might have been able to offer something but any chance ended in the early 00s.

although in terms of distance if you compare to somewhere like London and how far apart things are, Birmingham isnt far away, so for anything to work it HAS to be in the centre, its the best location for all the extra features. Also it would need a competent council and i think that is a looooong long way away.

 

[Minimalist]

I think the whole “multi use” aspect of the stadium is pie in the sky. The infrastructure just isn’t there and we’ll always play second fiddle as a city to birmingham in that respect. Imagine organising a work conference for a couple of thousand people. The road network wouldn’t cope, not enough parking, public transport is awful and if delegates want to go for a few beers and a meal after the options in Wolverhampton are shocking. Coventry tried to utilise the Ricoh when first built for conferences and they had the same problems

I agree it’s always going to be second fiddle to Birmingham, however it doesn’t mean it can’t be successful.
I don’t get how you can suggest there isn’t parking for 1k or so cars around Molineux!?
If the infrastructure can cope (just about) with 35k on a match day it can surly handle 1-2k on a non match day??

Anyway, the main multi use would probably be based around a link with the university.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

I don’t see how we compete with the offering Birmingham has as a city. It’s night and day.

Because the market for this is big enough to sustain it. I don’t get the argument that because Birmingham is bigger and just down the road, that all business in the region will be sucked there.

I’ve been to and organised enough work conferences and offsite meetings to know that there is a massive range of needs. Everything from something needing a major venue like the NEC or NIA, to meetings which can be accommodated by rooms no bigger than an average living room. Same with music gigs, albeit the lower end would be a touch bigger.

As an example, Epsom is just outside London, which is home to the biggest venues and hotels in the country. Despite that, Epsom Racecourse does a healthy sideline in business meetings and conferences throughout the year, and music concerts in the summer. Epsom is not especially well supplied with decent hotels, and transport out to the racecourse, not particularly convenient. I’m using it because it’s ordinarily a sports venue, close to a major city, and I’ve been to lots of meetings there over the years.

For the meeting / conference trade, Molineux is well located for transport (mainline train station within walking distance, city centre accessible to cars with onsite parking). The city centre lacks a good quality range of hotels and restaurants. Both could be at least partially addressed on the empty land the club owns if the club wished to develop a bigger conference / meeting business in Molineux. The Uni is a natural partner for this, having a large network to draw on.

Given City Halls is nearby and just refurbished, I wouldn’t go down the route of a building another indoor arena. But Molineux could definitely go after the summer music festival business, especially if coordinated with City Halls and Wolves Music. Maybe a multi day, multi venue music festival could help establish it on the annual gig calendar. Schedule it just after the end of the regular season so that work to refresh the pitch in the summer is not affected.

A combination of the two ideas above could work, especially with the Uni and Wolves helping to fill the hotel, bars and restaurants through the rest of the year.

 

[Golden Arrow]

Train to Wolverhampton, a cheese & onion bap with my Golden Glow in the Great Western, a stroll into town and meet up with mates, do a couple of pubs, pick up some street food, then stroll to the Southbank.
Why would I ever want to change that.
I've legged it from station to the likes of Southampton, Stoke, Leicester, Forest and Liverpool and there's some serious ground to cover if you're trying to save on taxi fares.
Keep Molineux where it is, please. It's a superb location.

 

[BlahBlah]

Most of our poverty stricken areas are down to rubbish politics. Completely different argument

voted for by the people who live here

 

[Stourport wolf]

I think this is my reaction too.
Be careful not to make sweeping statements about a whole people please Stefan.

With all respect it happened several times in the thread about overshadowing a world Cup win, when people were talking about Spanish machismo.
I can't remember anything being said about those generalisations.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

I agree it’s always going to be second fiddle to Birmingham, however it doesn’t mean it can’t be successful.
I don’t get how you can suggest there isn’t parking for 1k or so cars around Molineux!?
If the infrastructure can cope (just about) with 35k on a match day it can surly handle 1-2k on a non match day??

Anyway, the main multi use would probably be based around a link with the university.

Because there isn’t a thousand spaces actually at the stadium which means parking a distance away. Even little things like signage from the train station to the ground is poor. I’ve often seen away fans confused on a match day when there’s 1000s of gold shirts to follow, I dread to think how lost folk would get on a Tuesday morning!

A huge amount has been spent on getting the infrastructure right in birmingham and they already have a variety of venues for commercial use. I can’t see the council or the government chucking the money into what is now sadly a city centre on its knees. I love slap bang between Wolverhampton and birmingham, spent most of my youth drinking in our city but I’ve not visited it on a non match day in over a decade, why would you? If Mrs SBK wants to go for some good afternoon drinks it will invariably involve going to somewhere in brum I wouldn’t even consider our city.

 

[Mutchy]

With all respect it happened several times in the thread about overshadowing a world Cup win, when people were talking about Spanish machismo.
I can't remember anything being said about those generalisations.

I think Spanish machismo, or something along those lines, was mentioned in articles by Spanish talking about their own country.

 

[Stourport wolf]

I think Spanish machismo, or something along those lines, was mentioned in articles by Spanish talking about their own country.

Your job is difficult enough without me making it more difficult. Back to ground development.

 

[WasStefan]

there was a time we might have been able to offer something but any chance ended in the early 00s.

although in terms of distance if you compare to somewhere like London and how far apart things are, Birmingham isnt far away, so for anything to work it HAS to be in the centre, its the best location for all the extra features. Also it would need a competent council and i think that is a looooong long way away.

Coventry is getting on great being smaller brother to east of Birmingham. We can absolutely do the same west of Birmingham.

I agree we need a competent council, their plans are sound and make sense:

1/ connect rail, tram and bus in 1 central location (now complete)
2/ add high quality office space around these hubs (in progress)
3/ add hotel capacity around this (spoons hotel in planning, Mander House being converted to Travelodge in development and an additional hotel planned on Broad Street basin in the future)


4/ revamp The Halls, and connect this with new box park built off Victoria Street via pedestrianisation, also connect these via pedestrianised streets to The Grand

5/ hope the private sector flourishes in between entertainment area around Halls, Victoria street and The Grand, with bars, hotels, restaurants.

The first problem with all this is it’s been to slow. The second problem is Wolves is a ghost town on midweeks as no one lives within the ring road. We need more plans for actual people living in the centre to support businesses day in day out.

1/ canalside may help with this, but again to slow
2/ brewers yard may help, But again to slow

Wolves has so much potential we just need competent people running the show to execute the plans

 

[Bradstonian]

Remembering how bad the ground used to be, I'm loathe to criticise it too much today...

https://twitter.com/once_country/status/1705101852981829777?s=61&t=aDnQeNUM7_FDsib-ildDpg

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Remembering how bad the ground used to be, I'm loathe to criticise it too much today...

https://twitter.com/once_country/status/1705101852981829777?s=61&t=aDnQeNUM7_FDsib-ildDpg

Molineaux?

 

[Bradstonian]

Molineaux?

Several have corrected them...

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Several have corrected them...

Molineaux?

Just off Waterlaux Road

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Remembering how bad the ground used to be, I'm loathe to criticise it too much today...

https://twitter.com/once_country/status/1705101852981829777?s=61&t=aDnQeNUM7_FDsib-ildDpg

Have you a date for the photo?
Would suggest it was between 1911(when the N.Bank was first covered) and 1925
when the Waterloo Road stand by Leitch was built

 

[OLDGOLD]

I think Spanish machismo, or something along those lines, was mentioned in articles by Spanish talking about their own country.

Yeah so that's OK then...... I think we all know what Stefan was driving at Muchy, and I know moderation has its challenges, but you are surfing in complex waters. Either no tolerance or total .....

 

[Bradstonian]

Have you a date for the photo?
Would suggest it was between 1911(when the N.Bank was first covered) and 1925
when the Waterloo Road stand by Leitch was built

I don't know. I spotted the image on Twitter. Would be good to know a bit more about it.

 

[Berlin Wolf]

Molineux Stadium - Home of Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club​

Mr Drone UK visited Molineux recently, a very enjoyable watch.
A nice sweep around the stadium shows how it sits on its site.
Looks lots of space behind the South Bank for expansion.

​