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TFWanderers

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Think Liverpool spent £80M expanding Anfield Road (was supposed to be £60M but price rises because of Covid bounced it up to £80M).
Not got any expertise in it but would imagine the lost revenue for best part of 2 seasons then the increase in couple of million more a year would take a long time to pay back. Especially as we'd have to loan money to do it, those transfers were stretched out as they all are so not like we had £50M just sitting around
Didn’t they have to buy a few houses too which have been demolished to make way?
 

lostwolf

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Never knew the SB was build in 2 almost independent sections.

Looks like we do do the lower part first. Makes sense and we can move the away fans to the quadrant.
It does but I can't imagine how that would look? The current top tier, where I am, is of course cranked in three parts... how would you build a lower tier that gets the stand closer and flush to the pitch, thus expanding the stand, without it either having a bottom tier dislocated from the top (an extreme version of West Ham's ground), or a temporary section at the rear of the middle section? I'd be very interested in seeing people's ideas, especially those of folk with engineering and building expertise.
 

lostwolf

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Didn’t they have to buy a few houses too which have been demolished to make way?
If we had that issue it'd be seen as insurmountable, just like the Anfield Road and the Trinity Road stands with the roads behind/underneath. For me there's too much realism on here!!
 

Sussex Wolf

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Never knew the SB was build in 2 almost independent sections.

Looks like we do do the lower part first. Makes sense and we can move the away fans to the quadrant.

Yes. If you look at old photos from when the stand was built, you can see the concrete core for the SBU, concourses and offices goes up first, and the SBL was built afterwards. Part of the SBL was demolished when the Morgan North Bank was built, which was done pretty quickly and without affecting the SBU or rest of the SBL.

It should be possible to demolish and rebuild the SBL during a season without closing the SBU. Clearly if the new SBL extended far enough up to cover the boxes when they would need to be closed at the same time as the SBL. I’d imagine it would be possible to sequence the work such that reconfiguring the concourses could be done during a summer after a new SBL has been built to minimise the impact on capacity.
 
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JayStringer

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It does but I can't imagine how that would look? The current top tier, where I am, is of course cranked in three parts... how would you build a lower tier that gets the stand closer and flush to the pitch, thus expanding the stand, without it either having a bottom tier dislocated from the top (an extreme version of West Ham's ground), or a temporary section at the rear of the middle section? I'd be very interested in seeing people's ideas, especially those of folk with engineering and building expertise.

I'm fully onboard with the idea of demolishing and rebuilding the lower tier first. Especially if it involves swinging round into the Southbank corner. I do have way more questions about the upper tier, since in it's current form it wouldn't be able to match up to the Stan Cullis. I imagine they could take the roof off and extend the stand backward, put a new roof on. But what will they do about the gap between the Bull and Cullis?

I'm sure they have answers for it all, I'd love to see them.
 

GV Wolf

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I'm fully onboard with the idea of demolishing and rebuilding the lower tier first. Especially if it involves swinging round into the Southbank corner. I do have way more questions about the upper tier, since in it's current form it wouldn't be able to match up to the Stan Cullis. I imagine they could take the roof off and extend the stand backward, put a new roof on. But what will they do about the gap between the Bull and Cullis?

I'm sure they have answers for it all, I'd love to see them.
There was no talk about sorting out the gap between the Steve Bull and the NB in the video. In short the ground will look half **** for years and years to come.
 

JayStringer

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I just rewatched that bit of the Jones video, and he talks about rebuilding the lower tier up to the 'second LED' which, if I'm looking at it right, is the strip directly above the boxes. So I also have questions about the remodeling of the boxes, whether they would be on the same level as now but further forward, or whether the lower tier would cover them and new ones would be built higher up...which would mean demolishing part of the second tier, too.

Unless they're going to go crazy and link the new lower to the existing upper, make it all one deep tier, then build new boxes at the back and put a new second (in effect third) tier on top. But that sounds way more than what Jones is talking about.

So...yep, I'd like to see some visuals when they're ready.
 

Sussex Wolf

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I just rewatched that bit of the Jones video, and he talks about rebuilding the lower tier up to the 'second LED' which, if I'm looking at it right, is the strip directly above the boxes. So I also have questions about the remodeling of the boxes, whether they would be on the same level as now but further forward, or whether the lower tier would cover them and new ones would be built higher up...which would mean demolishing part of the second tier, too.

Unless they're going to go crazy and link the new lower to the existing upper, make it all one deep tier, then build new boxes at the back and put a new second (in effect third) tier on top. But that sounds way more than what Jones is talking about.

So...yep, I'd like to see some visuals when they're ready.

I think he means the second LED strip on the pitch - not up the stand. If you remember, we had two sets of LED boards beside the pitch, which can appear as a single large one on tv.
 

JayStringer

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I think he means the second LED strip on the pitch - not up the stand. If you remember, we had two sets of LED boards beside the pitch, which can appear as a single large one on tv.

AHA. Okay, yep, makes sense. He was pointing up when he said it, but that probably just meant banking it up from the second set as you say. Then build new boxes at the top of the new stand, knock out the old ones to make them the concourse and a larger entrance to the new boxes.

EDIT. Watched it again and you're definitely right. They were standing between the two strips, so he clearly means bringing the stand forward to the second one.
 

YouGottaRaulWithIt

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I just rewatched that bit of the Jones video, and he talks about rebuilding the lower tier up to the 'second LED' which, if I'm looking at it right, is the strip directly above the boxes. So I also have questions about the remodeling of the boxes, whether they would be on the same level as now but further forward, or whether the lower tier would cover them and new ones would be built higher up...which would mean demolishing part of the second tier, too.

Unless they're going to go crazy and link the new lower to the existing upper, make it all one deep tier, then build new boxes at the back and put a new second (in effect third) tier on top. But that sounds way more than what Jones is talking about.

So...yep, I'd like to see some visuals when they're ready.
The design ideas in the Jones interview look like they came out of a 30 minute brainstorming session.

Ie "We have a PR exercise coming up, and we need to say something about Molineux development".

"No, you can't just say we can't afford it, or the boys back home won't let us spend any money. Just make something up about developing in stages"

"No, you can't use lego or toilet rolls"
 

JayStringer

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The design ideas in the Jones interview look like they came out of a 30 minute brainstorming session.

Ie "We have a PR exercise coming up, and we need to say something about Molineux development".

"No, you can't just say we can't afford it, or the boys back home won't let us spend any money. Just make something up about developing in stages"

"No, you can't use lego or toilet rolls"

Not at all. The very plan he mentions is one that was mentioned on this site a while back as an option, and it's one that makes sense.
 

kiddywolves26

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I’m no engineer but surely a new upper tier could be built on top of the current one? Is it possible for the current concrete structure to act as the foundation?

I genuinely think they plan for the Stan cullis to continue around without the need to demolish and re build. In the video he talks about remodelling the external area to match the Stan cullis
 

Sussex Wolf

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AHA. Okay, yep, makes sense. He was pointing up when he said it, but that probably just meant banking it up from the second set as you say. Then build new boxes at the top of the new stand, knock out the old ones to make them the concourse and a larger entrance to the new boxes.

That’s my guess too. I photoshopped something along these lines a long time back when we discussing ways to renovate or replace the SB in phases.
 

greco wolf

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That’s my guess too. I photoshopped something along these lines a long time back when we discussing ways to renovate or replace the SB in phases.
Can you repost it if easy as would love to see the sketches etc. I know it was discussed at length
 
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Sussex Wolf

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Can you repost it if easy as would love to see the sketches etc. I know it was discussed at length

7C4C709F-6C22-466D-A98F-021EF4D94728.jpeg

It was really quick and dirty to illustrate a point. If the upper tier were to remain cranked long term, then the lower tier could be profiled so that the front edge is square to the pitch, but the rear cranked to match the upper tier plan, either by using slightly different angles across the new lower tier and / or using the gangways to make the pieces line up. If the new lower tier were simply the first phase of a longer term rebuilding of the whole stand, then the lower tier would likely remain all square to the pitch, with some temporary join to the upper tier as shown in the sketch. That was my assumption when sketching this. In this case, the new hospitality is really a temporary upgrade on what’s there - basically removing the front of the existing boxes, and extending forward with some seats outside. There are lots of ways this could be done, including creating some form of social terrace in that space created between the cranked upper tier and straight lower tier.

Others have suggested taking the lower tier seats all the way to the bottom on the upper tier seats, and moving the hospitality further up, perhaps even at the rear. I’m not sure I see hospitality being located at the rear, as this doesn’t provide great views for those expensive seats, but might be a decent temporary solution. Another option not discussed, but seen in some stadiums, is to move the hospitality into the corner between the Steve Bull and South Bank. This would be fairly limiting on hospitality, but might be an option as a temporary interim step before the SBU is rebuilt. I think this unlikely.
 
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YouGottaRaulWithIt

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I think you're just set on assuming everything they do is a mistake or a lie.
When we finally see a plan I will be the first to apologise. But the lack of anything in the last six years makes me think maybe they are not taking it too seriously.
 

JayStringer

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Others have suggested taking the lower tier seats all the way to the bottom on the upper tier seats, and moving the hospitality further up, perhaps even at the rear. I’m not sure I see hospitality being located at the rear, as this doesn’t provide great views for those expensive seats, but might be a decent temporary solution.

I have no doubt you're right, and the hospitality would be considered too high/far if it were all the way at the back of the current second tier. I think it could be worked around - as part of the rebuild make that new (far away) space into a nice open-air balcony area with comfy seats, it could be made into a good destination spot. But yep, realistically, too far away.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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I'm confused, the way I heard it, no boxes, just access to seats from hospitality where the boxes were. You can't maintain the rake (which can't be any less) and bring the seats closer to the pitch without having that extra height.
 

Macman

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I'm confused, the way I heard it, no boxes, just access to seats from hospitality where the boxes were. You can't maintain the rake (which can't be any less) and bring the seats closer to the pitch without having that extra height.
Yeah, this. Im no builder but the sensible option is to knock down the existing lower tier, then build a new lower tier closer to the pitch, fully straight without the kinks, and at the same rake of the new North Bank. This new tier will not be built at its final height due to the upper tier sightlines, but instead temporarily finish at the same height of the existing hospitality boxes.

These boxes will then be converted in entrance/exits onto the new tier, albeit with a possible walkway to it due to it being closer to the pitch. Think West Hams ground. Then when the upper tier gets redeveloped (God knows when), they already have most of the bottom tier already in place, so they might add the remainder height to the bottom tier close season (to limit the reduced capacity), while the new upper tier gets built during that season. Joining both tiers up with the existing North Bank.

just my thoughts.
 
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Sussex Wolf

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I'm confused, the way I heard it, no boxes, just access to seats from hospitality where the boxes were. You can't maintain the rake (which can't be any less) and bring the seats closer to the pitch without having that extra height.

Yeah, this. Im no builder but the sensible option is to knock down the existing lower tier, then build a new lower tier closer to the pitch, fully straight without the kinks, and at the same rake of the new North Bank. This new tier will not be built at its final height due to the upper tier sightlines, but instead temporarily finish at the same height of the existing hospitality boxes.

These boxes will then be converted in entrance/exits onto the new tier, albeit with a possible walkway to it due to it being closer to the pitch. Think West Hams ground. Then when the upper tier gets redeveloped (God knows when), they already have most of the bottom tier already in place, so they might add the remainder height to the bottom tier close season (to limit the reduced capacity), while the new upper tier gets built during that season. Joining both tiers up with the existing North Bank.

just my thoughts.

I’ve reread it, and this is what I think what Russell meant including my speculation in addition to what he actually said.

He says they would demolish the lower tier, and reprofile it to bring the front up to the second set of LED screens along the pitch. He says, as we’ve speculated before, that by stretching the lower tier forward you could add seats, and he says around 1,100 seats is possible.

He then says this will allow them to move the away fans out of the SBL, but doesn’t say where to. My speculation is to the northern end of the SBU, which would require new access to be built. A more ambitious solution would be to complete the NE Quad, bringing it round to the edge of the Steve Bull, and allowing all the away fans to move there. Since the tiers are higher than the Steve Bull this would work, but would require changes to the Steve Bull roof, at least at the northern end, so the new seats at the top would all be usable.

He implies the upper tier will not be demolished, but would be significantly changed, because he talks about using the void space for a restaurant for hospitality, doubling the size of the concourses, and replacing the plate glass on the outside of the stand so it matches the North Bank. My speculation is that they may also reprofile the upper tier to match the new lower tier, so the current cranked profile would be hidden. They could also then extend the seat pitch to bring it up to modern standards rather than the knee breakers we have there today.

He doesn’t mention the roof, but I’d speculate a new or modified roof to provide cover for the extended lower tier, and remove the sight line restrictions in the NE quad would make sense (especially if planned to complete the NE Quad). It would also fit better with a reprofiled upper tier and allow them tidy up and complete the junction between the Steve Bull and NE Quad.

He also talks about changing the hospitality facilities “on the second tier”, but he doesn’t say in what way. My speculation is it would be similar to the North Bank, with the posh seats along the top of the new SBL, and the existing boxes gutted / opened up to create a new larger, indoor hospitality level, reaching back into the office/void behind as he mentioned.

The £16m quoted is not just for the new lower tier, but for the whole Steve Bull renovation - the new bigger lower tier, the external refurbishment, moving the away fans, the enlarged concourses, and the new hospitality. So once done, the Steve Bull would look more or less like a new stand, especially if they also fitted a new roof. We know from prior quotes that a key reason for renovation is not to minimise loss of capacity / revenue during the work, so I assume a phased project starting with the new lower tier, followed by the work on the upper tier and external facade.


Perhaps one of our journalist friends who browse MolMix could ask Jeff or Russell next time to clarify, and if the club has some images of their vision of a remodelled Steve Bull stand they could share with fans…
 
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Minimalist

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Sounded to me like he simply meant demolish lower tier and re build higher, covering boxes. Then probably have a corporate bit just as a block of seats in the middle.
Would think the “crank” will still be there along the front. Will just mean front row is 10 meters or so further forward.
 

beppe7619

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Yes. If you look at old photos from when the stand was built, you can see the concrete core for the SBU, concourses and offices goes up first, and the SBL was built afterwards. Part of the SBL was demolished when the Morgan North Bank was built, which was done pretty quickly and without affecting the SBU or rest of the SBL.

It should be possible to demolish and rebuild the SBL during a season without closing the SBU. Clearly if the new SBL extended far enough up to cover the boxes when they would need to be closed at the same time as the SBL. I’d imagine it would be possible to sequence the work such that reconfiguring the concourses could be done during a summer after a new SBL has been built to minimise the impact on capacity.
You can see it in this clip
 

reanswolf

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According to the Express and Star reporter Joe Masi (an Albion correspondent and fan) "General manager Russell Jones has confirmed the club are pressing on with improvement works to the Steve Bull stand – something fans have wanted for years".

He said: “We understand this is home, this is home of the football club, and we want to keep improving it, we want our supporters to be proud of it, and we especially understand that the Steve Bull needs some work.
“We have a nine-stage plan to redevelop this stand.
“The lower tier is some considerable distance away from the pitch. We’re quite lucky and fortunate this is built in two complete sections, which is the lower section and the upper section, so we can demolish the lower section, we can actually reprofile it bring the lower tier much, much closer to the pitch.

I think Masi is simply putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5 here, personally. I wish there were actual definite timescales.
 

Oh When the Wolves

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According to the Express and Star reporter Joe Masi (an Albion correspondent and fan) "General manager Russell Jones has confirmed the club are pressing on with improvement works to the Steve Bull stand – something fans have wanted for years".

He said: “We understand this is home, this is home of the football club, and we want to keep improving it, we want our supporters to be proud of it, and we especially understand that the Steve Bull needs some work.
“We have a nine-stage plan to redevelop this stand.
“The lower tier is some considerable distance away from the pitch. We’re quite lucky and fortunate this is built in two complete sections, which is the lower section and the upper section, so we can demolish the lower section, we can actually reprofile it bring the lower tier much, much closer to the pitch.

I think Masi is simply putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5 here, personally. I wish there were actual definite timescales.

Yep

What a terrible article
 

Olivergoldblack

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Yeah, this. Im no builder but the sensible option is to knock down the existing lower tier, then build a new lower tier closer to the pitch, fully straight without the kinks, and at the same rake of the new North Bank. This new tier will not be built at its final height due to the upper tier sightlines, but instead temporarily finish at the same height of the existing hospitality boxes.

These boxes will then be converted in entrance/exits onto the new tier, albeit with a possible walkway to it due to it being closer to the pitch. Think West Hams ground. Then when the upper tier gets redeveloped (God knows when), they already have most of the bottom tier already in place, so they might add the remainder height to the bottom tier close season (to limit the reduced capacity), while the new upper tier gets built during that season. Joining both tiers up with the existing North Bank.

just my thoughts.
That seems the most logical plan without reducing capacity too much.
 

Sussex Wolf

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The Steve Bull stand needs to be to the profile of the Stan Cullis stand. I don’t see how this would work and all seem mismatched

Without rebuilding the entire Steve Bull, which they’ve ruled out for the foreseeable future, that’s not possible. By demolishing and rebuilding the lower tier, which they plan to, you could match up the lower tier to a point, but once you reach the height of the Steve Bull boxes, it wouldn’t work any more.

If you look at even brand new stadiums like Spurs, they have discontinuities between stands (eg between their single home end and the side stand with loads of hospitality). All it takes is a creative architect to take the North Bank and the core of the Steve Bull as starting points, and they can work a way to integrate them so the end result looks tidy and not a bodge. Morgan planned to replace the entire Steve Bull quickly after the North Bank, so nothing was done to mesh the stands eg leaving the restricted view seats in the Quad. If Fosun plan to renovate the Steve Bull, then the work to integrate the two stands makes more sense.
 

Minimalist

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Without rebuilding the entire Steve Bull, which they’ve ruled out for the foreseeable future, that’s not possible. By demolishing and rebuilding the lower tier, which they plan to, you could match up the lower tier to a point, but once you reach the height of the Steve Bull boxes, it wouldn’t work any more.

If you look at even brand new stadiums like Spurs, they have discontinuities between stands (eg between their single home end and the side stand with loads of hospitality). All it takes is a creative architect to take the North Bank and the core of the Steve Bull as starting points, and they can work a way to integrate them so the end result looks tidy and not a bodge. Morgan planned to replace the entire Steve Bull quickly after the North Bank, so nothing was done to mesh the stands eg leaving the restricted view seats in the Quad. If Fosun plan to renovate the Steve Bull, then the work to integrate the two stands makes more sense.
I’m quite happy to have 4 separate stands anyway. I don’t share the desire to make them all joined up.

Would just be nice to do the half quadrant at NW corner to balance it up.... that would then also make a good end to have a stage face if they did end up doing concerts.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

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No idea how you could possibly get rid of the 'crank'. The entire structure is built that way. I think you would just end up either replicating the crank in the lower, or building it straight amd leaving a gap between the middle seats and the upper tier. Not ideal, but not a massive issue. I'd imagine any changes to the roof would massively add to the cost, so I can't see the quadrant being finished. Not actually sure how they'd do it anyway in that corner as even JL1 had to go, so presumably they can't build it all the eay down?
 

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What is a 'crank' and when is the work to demolish the lower section of the Steve Bull stand starting?
 
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