Welcome Notice

Hello and welcome to Molineux Mix a forum for Wolves fans by Wolves fans.

Register Log in

Stadium Plans

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
No idea how you could possibly get rid of the 'crank'. The entire structure is built that way. I think you would just end up either replicating the crank in the lower, or building it straight amd leaving a gap between the middle seats and the upper tier. Not ideal, but not a massive issue. I'd imagine any changes to the roof would massively add to the cost, so I can't see the quadrant being finished. Not actually sure how they'd do it anyway in that corner as even JL1 had to go, so presumably they can't build it all the eay down?
To get rid of the crank in the upper tier, you’d have to build a thin, angled structure up from the ground behind the new lower tier, in front of upper tier to create a flat line at the level of the first seats of the upper tier. If you look at my rough sketch above, you can see the shape required. In practice this would likely be the rear part of the new lower tier and incorporate the front of the new hospitality area. Then on top of the existing upper tier, bolt on a frame that would start at the rear of the new straight lower tier rear, and continue backwards, filling in the hollow created by the existing crank. New gangway entrances would be created in this frame, linking back to the existing gangways behind. At the top, this new straight upper tier would then extend a little further back in the middle of the stand to meet the rear cranked line of the stand. Essentially the old upper tier would be buried under this new straight upper tier. Then you’d modify the roof to extend the middle part so that the front of the roof was straight, matching the new lower tier.

If you were to then look down at the stand from above, you’d see the same rear line at the back of the SBU as today, but the front of both the upper and lower tiers would be straight, and the lower tier would end closer to the pitch.
 
Last edited:

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
What is a 'crank' and when is the work to demolish the lower section of the Steve Bull stand starting?

It’s the way the Steve Bull and BW stands curve rather than follow the pitch in a straight line. They are in three parts, the centre part is parallel to the pitch but set back, and the side parts are straight but angled slightly towards the opposite corner of the pitch. It’s why there is a bigger gap between the stand and pitch in the middle.

No timeline was given, and no planning has yet been submitted. The club say they want to do it, but are in no rush and think other commercial developments like esports will generate faster returns.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

"Inglorious"
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
37,434
Reaction score
35,413
To get rid of the crank in the upper tier, you’d have to build a thin, angled structure up from the ground behind the new lower tier, in front of upper tier to create a flat line at the level of the first seats of the upper tier. If you look at my rough sketch above, you can see the shape required. In practice this would likely be the rear part of the new lower tier and incorporate the front of the new hospitality area. Then on top of the existing upper tier, bolt on a frame that would start at the rear of the new straight lower tier rear, and continue backwards, filling in the hollow created by the existing crank. New gangway entrances would be created in this frame, linking back to the existing gangways behind. At the top, this new straight upper tier would then extend a little further back in the middle of the stand to meet the rear cranked line of the stand. Essentially the old upper tier would be buried under this new straight upper tier. Then you’d modify the roof to extend the middle part so that the front of the roof was straight, matching the new lower tier.

If you were to then look down at the stand from above, you’d see the same rear line at the back of the SBU as today, but the front of both the upper and lower tiers would be straight, and the lower tier would end closer to the pitch.
Can't help thinking you've made that sound much easier than it really is. For example is this something like the temporary stand in terms of the walkways, you surely couldn't build it in concrete like the other stands? I can't see how you'd build it up straight without the back line joining the ends of the current stand, losing a load of seats in the middle. You'd also probably have to provide more room per seat negating any gain from the lower. Massively problematic and needing an expensive bespoke solution, or just leave a small gap...
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
Can't help thinking you've made that sound much easier than it really is. For example is this something like the temporary stand in terms of the walkways, you surely couldn't build it in concrete like the other stands? I can't see how you'd build it up straight without the back line joining the ends of the current stand, losing a load of seats in the middle. You'd also probably have to provide more room per seat negating any gain from the lower. Massively problematic and needing an expensive bespoke solution, or just leave a small gap...

The steelwork would all be custom, but manufactured off site using precise measurements to a 3d design to achieve the end result described. It’s not a temporary structure and wouldn’t feel like one. You create an entirely new upper tier seating deck and gangways out of steel and poured concrete, just like they did building the north bank. The only difference, is that it’s sitting on top of the old core, so it doesn’t need to be demolished first. That assumes that structurally the old core is sound and can take the additional weight. That’s something for structural engineers to determine.

At the back of the new upper tier, because the new deck is straight, but the rear wall cranked, you’d end up with a few extra rows at the back of the middle (eg J4 to J7) which do not run from one end of the stand to the other.

Because the deck is new, then the pitch could be improved to match modern stadiums. While this means less seats per sq metre, remember that the new upper tier is also bigger in surface area, since the middle of the front rows would be much further forward, but the rear would be where it is today. Hence the same number of seats could be incorporated. In fact when Russell talks about adding 1100 seats, he may mean in total across the whole stand rather than just in the lower tier.

As for the NE Quad. They may just leave that as is. Or they could modify the Steve Bull roof to remove the sight line restrictions on some of the upper seats, freeing up a little capacity there. It’s also possible that they could take advantage of such roof work to build a small extension to the side of the Steve Bull Upper to fill in the gap to the NE Quad. It needn’t have anything below the seating deck, with fans just accessing from the J1 gangway. Different to what Morgan planned to finish the quad, but would also work.
 

Peszkywolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
7,948
Reaction score
4,672
IMO I quite like an approach where we spend as little as possible but get the most amount of new seats from it. And bring the fans closer to the pitch (if you draw a line carrying on down from the first row of the SBU you end up about 5m closer). Won't bankrupt us or take away money for transfers.
 

Mr Sizzle

Has a lot to say
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1,470
IMO I'm not expecting a new SBS roof for the £19 Mill figures being quoted
Given Liverpool’s main stand dev came in at 110m and the smaller anfield road is now 80m, i’m hoping the 19m is not the whole lot.. It wont go very far these days !
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
Given Liverpool’s main stand dev came in at 110m and the smaller anfield road is now 80m, i’m hoping the 19m is not the whole lot.. It wont go very far these days !

It is the whole lot. Russell said it covered the 9 point plan they have in mind.

The Anfield work is on a whole different scale. That’s basically building a new stand behind the existing stand and integrating that into the old stand. Work described on the Steve Bull would be almost the opposite really. Replacing the small, cheap bit at the front, and then renovating the rest. The end result could still look quite different, and almost like a new stand, but it would mostly be the same Steve Bull stand underneath.
 

SingYourHeartsOut

"Inglorious"
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
37,434
Reaction score
35,413
The steelwork would all be custom, but manufactured off site using precise measurements to a 3d design to achieve the end result described. It’s not a temporary structure and wouldn’t feel like one. You create an entirely new upper tier seating deck and gangways out of steel and poured concrete, just like they did building the north bank. The only difference, is that it’s sitting on top of the old core, so it doesn’t need to be demolished first. That assumes that structurally the old core is sound and can take the additional weight. That’s something for structural engineers to determine.

At the back of the new upper tier, because the new deck is straight, but the rear wall cranked, you’d end up with a few extra rows at the back of the middle (eg J4 to J7) which do not run from one end of the stand to the other.

Because the deck is new, then the pitch could be improved to match modern stadiums. While this means less seats per sq metre, remember that the new upper tier is also bigger in surface area, since the middle of the front rows would be much further forward, but the rear would be where it is today. Hence the same number of seats could be incorporated. In fact when Russell talks about adding 1100 seats, he may mean in total across the whole stand rather than just in the lower tier.

As for the NE Quad. They may just leave that as is. Or they could modify the Steve Bull roof to remove the sight line restrictions on some of the upper seats, freeing up a little capacity there. It’s also possible that they could take advantage of such roof work to build a small extension to the side of the Steve Bull Upper to fill in the gap to the NE Quad. It needn’t have anything below the seating deck, with fans just accessing from the J1 gangway. Different to what Morgan planned to finish the quad, but would also work.
This is all purely academic I think, but surely you're not far off doubling the weight of the structure if you're going to build it in concrete. So a 45 year old concrete base with a significant increase in loading, that sounds unlikely to me (not a structural engineer). The steel works would be substantial if they had to take the load and transfer it down. Anyway, even the simple version is quite unlikely IMO, the idea we're going to rebuild the upper tier and the roof, basically just using the basic concrete support sounds like it might be more expensive than starting from scratch!

Remember how long it took to replace a very simple temporary stand!
 

Mr Sizzle

Has a lot to say
Joined
Aug 26, 2006
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1,470
It is the whole lot. Russell said it covered the 9 point plan they have in mind.

The Anfield work is on a whole different scale. That’s basically building a new stand behind the existing stand and integrating that into the old stand. Work described on the Steve Bull would be almost the opposite really. Replacing the small, cheap bit at the front, and then renovating the rest. The end result could still look quite different, and almost like a new stand, but it would mostly be the same Steve Bull stand underneath.
Thanks SW. better manage expectations then. Definitely more repair shop than Grand Designs.. :)) Not my area of expertise but thought just the internal fit out of a huge stand like the Steve Bull would consume a lot of that budget unless they are shopping in the outlets.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
This is all purely academic I think, but surely you're not far off doubling the weight of the structure if you're going to build it in concrete. So a 45 year old concrete base with a significant increase in loading, that sounds unlikely to me (not a structural engineer). The steel works would be substantial if they had to take the load and transfer it down. Anyway, even the simple version is quite unlikely IMO, the idea we're going to rebuild the upper tier and the roof, basically just using the basic concrete support sounds like it might be more expensive than starting from scratch!

Remember how long it took to replace a very simple temporary stand!

It would be a significant weight, but far less than the weight of the rest of the SBU stand, and don’t underestimate the weight of all the fans sat on it when full, which it’s already carrying in addition to the current concrete seating deck. My guess is that if the existing structure is sound, then it could take the weight. Heck they could even remove some of the existing seating deck concrete if they needed to, but all that adds to the time and cost.

Anyway it was speculation on how far the remodelling would go to explain the changes he said, but it’s clear from the interview that the £16m (£19m with funding) he quoted was for all the improvements to the Steve Bull, which includes the new lower tier, external reclad to match the North Bank, a new restaurant in the void space at the rear, doubling the upper and lower concourses, better hospitality facilities, and moving the away fans from the lower tier.

It is academic in so much as the timeline is not given and not immediate. If it were part of our bid for Euro 2028 then we may get to see some pictures in the next year of what their new “vision” looks like.
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
Thanks SW. better manage expectations then. Definitely more repair shop than Grand Designs.. :)) Not my area of expertise but thought just the internal fit out of a huge stand like the Steve Bull would consume a lot of that budget unless they are shopping in the outlets.

I think it’s more akin to old office blocks which get remodelled, either to become nicer offices or as conversion into flats. The basic structure is retained, but it’s gutted and the interior refitted, and the exterior is reclad or reskinned if needed. As you say, to a budget, but still a lot quicker and cheaper than demolition and building new.

Mind you, don’t forget that some of those Grand Designs are renovation projects, and they’re often the most expensive! ;)
 

Wolf in Kenilworth

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
6,217
Reaction score
11,209
Be interested to see the uptake of the boxes in the SB.
Be tempted to make it into a single tier stand for the first phase. The gradient wouldn’t work otherwise?
 

stuj4z

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
1,907
There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
 

Coshamwolves

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
1,391
Breaking News

Wolves have bought in a crack team of architects, with experiece of football stadium design, to re-model the Molineux.

With no expense spared, the detailed plans outlined at the recent Ask Wolves event have already been turned into a detailed model.


View attachment 28240
That Steve Bull Lower Tier looks sorted!:cool:

Russell can you have a look at this!
 

Coshamwolves

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
1,391
There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
Yes prob along the lines of North Bank WV1 bar
 

WolvTown

Has a lot to say
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
1,763
Breaking News

Wolves have bought in a crack team of architects, with experiece of football stadium design, to re-model the Molineux.

With no expense spared, the detailed plans outlined at the recent Ask Wolves event have already been turned into a detailed model.


View attachment 28240
Hmmm!.. Not sure about that North Bank roof keeping anyone in NL2 Dry... Before you build it, could you buy a 50p bottle of water and carry out a few simple tests? :mad:
 

GV Wolf

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
510
Reaction score
891
The Steve Bull stand needs to be to the profile of the Stan Cullis stand. I don’t see how this would work and all seem mismatched
Indeed, unless I’m missing something it may well end up looking like a dogs dinner. The ground needed a comprehensive redevelopment- looks like that will never happen and the NB will always look odd.
 

GV Wolf

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2016
Messages
510
Reaction score
891
Yes prob along the lines of North Bank WV1 bar
There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes
Can you imagine - pay for expensive corporate seats and you have the sun in your eyes all the match and sunburn!
 

Sussex Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
23,960
Reaction score
33,244
There are 2 big points that most people seem to be missing with all this. Part of the new lower tier will not be a permanent structure and removable for events like gigs.
So it's either retractable or a temporary stand similar to the Graham Hughes.
Plus the fact that it sounds like they will use J1 to J3 as the away section. 1/3 of a 10k seater stand gives the full allocation so there will be no way that the corporate areas will be part of this.
Maybe the way they level things off to make it flush to the pitch is by having the corporate area in the middle of the stand.
Again, these won't be boxes

Having just been to watch the Killers at the Riverside, I assume what Russell is talking about is an access tunnel in the NE Quad allowing the standing crowd easy access to the pitch area for concerts. If there is to be a new fan zone behind the North Bank, then this would tie into this. For the Killers at the Riverside, there was a large fan park outside the stadium before the music started. If so, then the removable section of the lower tier would be in the NE Quad / northern end of the SBL tier.

Putting the corporate in the middle could make sense if the upper tier is not rebuilt. It’s the prime location, and it would allow them to resolve the straight to cranked challenge by incorporating the extra space in the middle into the corporate level. However I think the corporate level will extend the length of the pitch to maximise revenue from it, so maybe some kind of premium outdoor terrace in the middle, with a couple of rows of posh seats either side at the top of the lower tier.

I don’t think all 3k away fans need to relocated in the Steve Bull. I assume they will keep the away section in the NE Quad, and just create a second zone in the northern end of the SBU for visiting teams who take their full allocation.
 

Brockmoorwolf

Has a lot to say
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
1,442
Reaction score
1,859
How wide would that access tunnel need to be? Having worked that section of the ground you could park 2 double decker buses and an ambulance or 2 in that section as it is.
 

stuj4z

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Sep 10, 2005
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
1,907
He is talking about floor space and not an access tunnel. We already have 2 of those as it stands anyway
 

Nige

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2016
Messages
570
Reaction score
699
Well, it's their money, not ours. On the one hand, yes, Fosun themselves have the money to pay 50m right now and get the Steve Bull and South Bank done. And then convert that debt to equity the same way they did recently with the 100+ million. But what is the value to them in doing that? increasing the equity would really only benefit them if/when they sell. The very fact they have such money on the first place is because they make smart investments. And applying to be involved in a 2028 bid would mean getting access to outside funding, and not needing to stump up the cash themselves, which is smart.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if Fosun did exactly what you suggest. If I won 100 million on the euro millions tomorrow, I'd be straight on the phone to Jeff offering to fund it, because I'm a Wolves fan and heart-over-head. But I don't think it's fair to read anything into their commitment levels for not doing it, when they have clear and proven business models.
All of that makes perfect sense Until you realise Jeff paid 36 million for Silva ?????
 

SingYourHeartsOut

"Inglorious"
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
37,434
Reaction score
35,413
Good luck with that! I'll give it another five years before it's considered an overused argument.
Even if Silva never makes it and is given away at then end of his contract (and better judges tgan me think the jury is still out), I still reckon you'd struggle to find a top half Prem team that didn't spend £30+m in a player who turned out to be a flop. Everton could probably name an XI. I think the main issues with Fabio are the suspicions that Jeff was involved and that we were somehow 'doing Mendes a favour'.
 

kiddywolves26

Newbie
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
21
Reaction score
23
Even if Silva never makes it and is given away at then end of his contract (and better judges tgan me think the jury is still out), I still reckon you'd struggle to find a top half Prem team that didn't spend £30+m in a player who turned out to be a flop. Everton could probably name an XI. I think the main issues with Fabio are the suspicions that Jeff was involved and that we were somehow 'doing Mendes a favour'.
Everyone just needs to look at it differently. Especially with sales amongst mendes clubs. We will get favours and also have to repay these favours.

We paid Porto 60/62m for neves, jota and silva. Great value if you ask me?! And if neves goes for 60m we have already made 43/45m on these players
 

Padraig

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
4,013
Reaction score
4,375
Christ alive.

We’re a top flight elite football club, charging top dollar for tickets. We’re acting like we’re saving up for a sodding conservatory.
They’re still saying it’s too expensive to replace our 32” ‘big’ screens. There are literally non-league clubs with bigger.

You can’t see or hear anything in the ground. And yet Jones is surprised people don’t think the matchday experience is any good.
 

Minimalist

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
4,872
Reaction score
7,457
They’re still saying it’s too expensive to replace our 32” ‘big’ screens. There are literally non-league clubs with bigger.

You can’t see or hear anything in the ground. And yet Jones is surprised people don’t think the matchday experience is any good.
I thinks Jones was (maybe deliberately or perhaps not) mixing up the idea of “match day experience” and “match atmosphere” .
 

SanFranWolf

Transfer summary thread supremo
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
7,516
Reaction score
4,246
I was looking at the drawings back from 2010, in those designs the ‘height and angle of the lower tier of the Stan Cullis is replicated along the ‘new’ Steve Bull stand.

The height of the Stan Cullis Lower is significantly more than the Lower Tier of the current Steve Bull.

Do we think the ‘9 point plan’ will have the same effect?

@WwFC @Russell Jones - Can you please publish pictures please?
 

Olivergoldblack

Has a lot to say
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
2,711
I was looking at the drawings back from 2010, in those designs the ‘height and angle of the lower tier of the Stan Cullis is replicated along the ‘new’ Steve Bull stand.

The height of the Stan Cullis Lower is significantly more than the Lower Tier of the current Steve Bull.

Do we think the ‘9 point plan’ will have the same effect?

@WwFC @Russell Jones - Can you please publish pictures please?
I was thinking this too. The height of the 'new' Steve Bull lower could only be high enough to allow the first row of the current Steve Bull upper tier an unobstructed view of the near-side touchline, which means the 'new' lower tier would probably be only half as tall as the Stan Cullis lower tier.

If they make the new lower tier as high as the Stan Cullis lower tier, they may as well close the entire of the current Steve Bull Upper tier.
 

Brockmoorwolf

Has a lot to say
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
1,442
Reaction score
1,859
I am not quite sure how they managed it, whether it was a special order, but the North Bank tannoy system seems to have been specifically designed to make any music blisteringly loud to the ears yet all speech and announcements an unintelligible mass of mumbling
Blame whoever is in charge of the mixer that is an easy fix. Its basically twisting a few nobs.
 

Wednesbury Wolf

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
18,082
Reaction score
8,924
Over 3000 posts on a subject that Fosun don't care about. What we've got is the best we're going to get so you can all forget any ground improvements.
 

Minimalist

Just doesn't shut up
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
4,872
Reaction score
7,457
Over 3000 posts on a subject that Fosun don't care about. What we've got is the best we're going to get so you can all forget any ground improvements.
About 100 of those posts are people saying what you’ve just repeated!
 
Back
Top Bottom