Should we be moving to a back five?

[hambaps]

Got 2 assists didn't he?

One from a corner, there were at least 2 free kicks that sailed over everyone's heads in the first half. Delivery needs to be consistent, especially with the lack of chances we create from open play.

 

[Pengwern]

Play 4 at the back with Bueno & Kilman when Burno is ready so we can play a high line. Until then play Toti & Kilman

 

[Contrarian]

We should be moving to a back 10!

That's pretty much how Luton have been playing! And Burnley with 1 at the back. And he's out of position. They outgunned the Championship so easily, they look like a team that has forgotten how to defend and are now suffering due to the massive step up in opposition. Luckily for us, of course.

 

[inaglasshouse]

Yes play a 5, better for Sa and Kilman especially, Toti obviously should be in our lineup anyway. Doyle can be the new Neves spraying the ball around and scoring 40 yard wonder goals. That kid Gonzales can be the tricky winger.

 

[Mel Eves on a bike]

So part of the argument for a back 5 is that it doesn’t have to be defensive. But it will be for us won’t it. God forbid we go back to sitting back and hoping for the odd beak away. I realise Nuno kept is up doing that during the covid season but I almost lost all faith in football!

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Back 8, leave sasa and hwang up front and hoof the ball at their shoulders.

 

[SydneyWolf]

The front foot version:

-------------Sa
----Dawson Bueno Kilman
Doc Lemina Bellegarde RAN
----Cunha Silva/Sasa Neto

Against top 6 sides:

------- -------Sa
---- Dawson Bueno Kilman
Semedo Gomes Lemina Bellegarde RAN
---------Cunha Hwang/Neto

 

[Minimalist]

Burnley 4-0

???? Think we might have been playing a back 4 in that game?

 

[old wittonian]

All them 1-0 wins we got towards the back end of last season were still **** to watch.

The three points were great life savers though.

 

[Jd132]

One key, regularly overlooked, factor in our success under Lopetegui was Toti at left back and the form that earnt him an international call up. He offered physical presence and was no less marauding than RAN and Bueno. Maybe he doesn't look as accomplished but he got the winner against Villa and the assist for Costa's goal against Brentford. He is genuinely more effective. If Toti is on the pitch, the second goal against Palace doesn't happen. He also allowed Semedo to attack more and develop an improved partnership with Nunes.

I am all for 5 at the back to try and get more physical players on the pitch. But we could do that in a 4. Play Toti and Doc in a 4 and let them do what comes naturally. At the moment, any winger in the PL is going to relish getting at Semedo and RAN- I don't think that's the same for Toti in particular.

 

[DanishWolf]

Very much in favour.
Gives us defensive stability and also makes us less exposed when our wingbacks move forward.
Also, with our new high enginge midfield, we'd still be able to press high and get people forward, enabling us to still create chances. I'd even argue, that with the freedom this gives the wingbacks, we'd be more attackingminded.

 

[SmiffyWolf]

I would agree with trying a back 3/5 depending on how you lineup if we had creative CM. Our recruitment team though seems to love a good DM that will sit deep run a little but offer little in the final third in the way of a goal threat or creativity.

A striker was needed but yet again we seem to think we don't need one. We needed one last year when Costa and Jiminez were here. Not sure how you can think Sasa can be relied on to start many games due to his injury record. Fabio well no goals in 30 prem league games says it all . Can anyone else name a similar striker that has that record that is their clubs number 9 ?.

Just saying as I see it but hopefull soon a Percy bomb of Fosun selling up . As they can't take us any further forward IMO as they have no plan or strategy at present.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Something I think we should try again. We look so much better as a entire team nullifying the opposition, and counter attacking.

Some of our recent defending is so bad

 

[oldgolded]

Watched the Wolves Podcast this morning and I thought it was interesting that they said that our back 4 just crumble as soon as they are put under any kind of sustained pressure. I also feel that Kilman's form has been badly affected by the captaincy. I like the suggestion that Toti is re-introduced into the first team.

 

[North West Wanderer]

i’ll say it. should have kept Coady.

 

[groundhogwolf]

Play 4 at the back with Bueno & Kilman when Burno is ready so we can play a high line. Until then play Toti & Kilman

Yet Kilman keeps making bad decisions

 

[WolfLing]

I think there's arguments to move to 3 centre backs, but that doesn't necessarily mean becoming more defensive. I think more of a 3-2-3-2 would work.

It does fit with a lot of strengths of our players.

Neto is best on the left, with targets to aim at in the box. Doherty is one of our better attacking threats. We stand more of a chance of scoring when playing with two up top, but need to balance this with not opening ourselves up too much at the back.

I'd maybe try something like this.....

Sa

Dawson--Kilman--Toti

Lemina---Gomes
Doherty----Bellegarde-----Neto

Sasa--Cunha

​

The back 3, plus 2 DMs should give us a very stable defensive structure.

Doherty and Neto giving us the width, but playing more as right and left midfield options than wing-backs. The formation easily becomes more of a 442/4411 with Doherty dropping in, Bellegarde pushing wider on the right and Toti pushing out to left back.

Ait-Nouri and/or Bueno are options on the left instead of Neto, or Semedo or Jonny options instead of Doherty. Silva and Hwang options as the second striker. Sarabia or Gonzalez are options as the more attacking CM instead of Bellegarde.

 

[Skrilla]

i’ll say it. should have kept Coady.

Coady is not essential to playing in a back five. Kilman and Bueno are both very good ball-playing centre backs, who would have more freedom to advance the ball as RCB/LCB. Dawson would be less reliant on pace in that 'sweeper' role (envisioning him in that Thiago Silva role), while being a huge upgrade on Coady from a purely defensive standpoint.

If we wanted to be really aggressive with it and play a very high line, a true 3-4-3 rather than a back five, then Toti could come in for Dawson. That would potentially better suit us in games against the lower half sides where we want to control the games rather than sit back and hit on the counter.

I think we need to play to the strengths of this squad, and our full backs are best suited as wingbacks, and our centre backs are better suited to playing in a back three.

 

[Skrilla]

I think there's arguments to move to 3 centre backs, but that doesn't necessarily mean becoming more defensive. I think more of a 3-2-3-2 would work.

It does fit with a lot of strengths of our players.

Neto is best on the left, with targets to aim at in the box. Doherty is one of our better attacking threats. We stand more of a chance of scoring when playing with two up top, but need to balance this with not opening ourselves up too much at the back.

I'd maybe try something like this.....

Sa

Dawson--Kilman--Toti

Lemina---Gomes
Doherty----Bellegarde-----Neto

Sasa--Cunha

​

The back 3, plus 2 DMs should give us a very stable defensive structure.

Doherty and Neto giving us the width, but playing more as right and left midfield options than wing-backs. The formation easily becomes more of a 442/4411 with Doherty dropping in, Bellegarde pushing wider on the right and Toti pushing out to left back.

Ait-Nouri and/or Bueno are options on the left instead of Neto, or Semedo or Jonny options instead of Doherty. Silva and Hwang options as the second striker. Sarabia or Gonzalez are options as the more attacking CM instead of Bellegarde.

Quite like that, but if we were playing with a true back three with very little help from Doc/Neto in that system, I think Bueno has to come in for Dawson.

 

[WolfLing]

Quite like that, but if we were playing with a true back three with very little help from Doc/Neto in that system, I think Bueno has to come in for Dawson.

Yeah, agreed. I think Sarabia and Dawson are in attacking midfield and right centre back for now, but when they've settled, Bellegarde and S. Bueno maybe take their places.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Coady is not essential to playing in a back five. Kilman and Bueno are both very good ball-playing centre backs, who would have more freedom to advance the ball as RCB/LCB. Dawson would be less reliant on pace in that 'sweeper' role (envisioning him in that Thiago Silva role), while being a huge upgrade on Coady from a purely defensive standpoint.

If we wanted to be really aggressive with it and play a very high line, a true 3-4-3 rather than a back five, then Toti could come in for Dawson. That would potentially better suit us in games against the lower half sides where we want to control the games rather than sit back and hit on the counter.

I think we need to play to the strengths of this squad, and our full backs are best suited as wingbacks, and our centre backs are better suited to playing in a back three.

The whole defence lacks leadership and direction and right now Coady usurps Kilman for sure, who has fallen off a cliff.
impossible imo to rate Bueno until he starts to play in the team.

 

[Skrilla]

The whole defence lacks leadership and direction and right now Coady usurps Kilman for sure, who has fallen off a cliff.
impossible imo to rate Bueno until he starts to play in the team.

Pointless discussion to have now anyway. Dawson can replace Coady in the middle of a back three just fine. A back three of Kilman-Dawson-Bueno should, on paper, be better than Boly-Coady-Bennett, if we decided to go with a three.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

I think there's arguments to move to 3 centre backs, but that doesn't necessarily mean becoming more defensive. I think more of a 3-2-3-2 would work.

It does fit with a lot of strengths of our players.

Neto is best on the left, with targets to aim at in the box. Doherty is one of our better attacking threats. We stand more of a chance of scoring when playing with two up top, but need to balance this with not opening ourselves up too much at the back.

I'd maybe try something like this.....

Sa

Dawson--Kilman--Toti

Lemina---Gomes
Doherty----Bellegarde-----Neto

Sasa--Cunha

​

The back 3, plus 2 DMs should give us a very stable defensive structure.

Doherty and Neto giving us the width, but playing more as right and left midfield options than wing-backs. The formation easily becomes more of a 442/4411 with Doherty dropping in, Bellegarde pushing wider on the right and Toti pushing out to left back.

Ait-Nouri and/or Bueno are options on the left instead of Neto, or Semedo or Jonny options instead of Doherty. Silva and Hwang options as the second striker. Sarabia or Gonzalez are options as the more attacking CM instead of Bellegarde.

Sa

Kilman--Bueno--Toti

Lemina---Doyle

Doherty----Bellegarde-----Neto

Sasa--Cunha

I think we should try something new, making us creative.

What you have suggested would be stepping in the right direction

 

[Minimalist]

Pointless discussion to have now anyway. Dawson can replace Coady in the middle of a back three just fine. A back three of Kilman-Dawson-Bueno should, on paper, be better than Boly-Coady-Bennett, if we decided to go with a three.

I probably agree.
Though I did think on Sunday as several long diagonal balls and switches of play missed their target and either went to the opposition or out of play…. I could help but consider how over the years we probably started to take that ability for granted, from both Coady and Neves.

 

[Wiltshire Wolfie]

I would prefer changing to 3-5-2.

 

[R1ch]

I wouldn't, there's a reason why it stopped working for Nuno and why we didn't score enough goals. Trouble with 3 centre backs and wing backs is once they get pinned into a back 5 you're stuffed and struggle to get out.

The system is totally reliant on getting those wing backs high up the pitch and getting players in the box. Under Nuno we were over reliant on a single striker scoring a large majority of goals and not enough players got into scoring opportunities regularly. Neto doesn't suit the formation because he likes to play on the left, he'd have to play on the right if he played at all. If you were going to play it you'd want two strikers with one playing between them and the two centre mids.

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

I think it's worthwhile to use the back 3 for some of the big six games, especially away from home. Given our current squad, 3-5-2 would work the best:

Sa
Dawson/S.Bueno-Kilman/Dawson-Toti/Kilman
Doc/Semedo-Gomes/Doyle-Lemina/Traore-Bellegarde/Sarabia-RAN/Bueno
Fabio/Cunha-Cunha/Sasa

I wouldn't ditch the back 4 lineup, however, and I would still persist with getting on the front foot against teams we should beat.

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

All this talk about dropping dawson

It’s kilman who should be dropped

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

All this talk about dropping dawson

It’s kilman who should be dropped

Both not been up to standard

 

[Skrilla]

Resurrecting this thread after today's performance... it just suits this group of players doesn't it?

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Resurrecting this thread after today's performance... it just suits this group of players doesn't it?

How many times did me and other people keep saying we have to go back to what we know best IT WORKS

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Ran was fantastic today in the 5 I'd argue you could replace lemina for bellegarde to get us up the pitch as gomes is already fantastic cover

 

[oldgolded]

Absolutely yes. Can't help feeling everything started to go wrong when we started moving away from our tried and tested back 5, even under Nuno.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

I think ran and semedo as wbs are fantastic for us, ran is really doing well this year.

Think you have take a decision on how you get bellegarde in with 5 at the back but fantastic!! Hwang is unstoppable as is Neto

 

[Bostin]

It gives us an out ball every single time.

 

[AndyY]

I think ran and semedo as wbs are fantastic for us, ran is really doing well this year.

Think you have take a decision on how you get bellegarde in with 5 at the back but fantastic!! Hwang is unstoppable as is Neto

In my view, you play 3-5-2 with Hwang and Neto up front with either Bellegarde or a Cunha in the hole behind them.
Probably more 3-4-1-2

 

[goldeneyed]

Hopefully today finally convinces GON that three at the back and marauding wing backs has to be the way forward until we get a proper centre forward. That is the only way we are going to accumulate points- counter-attack and the spirit of Nuno.

 

[Fenrir_]

Today was the game for it, arguably do it against other top sides. Forest at home? No. Definitely seemed to help Dawson though, feel he's been a bit of a car crash so far this season and easily had his best game under O'Neil

 

[Brixton Wanderer]

I’d like to see the change to be honest, at least for big parts of this season as we need to grind out survival.

I just wonder if there’s scope to utilise Lemina as part of a back 3 who can step out, almost like sweeper/DM hybrid for with and without the ball. This would be for teams around us in the league who we’d be fancying 3pts off.

With the ball (would also be able to utilise wingbacks pushing on with Lemina sitting deep):

Sa

Semedo - Dawson - Kilman - RAN
Lemina
Belgarde - Gomes
Hwang - Cunha - Neto

Without the ball:

Sa
Semedo - Dawson - Lemina - Kilman - RAN
Hwang - Belgarde - Gomes - Neto
Cunha

 

[Darvo]

Our players and situation mean a back 3 is a must for me. Stick with it Gazza