Rui Patricio

[SteveBullsKnee]

ultimate ego to go with it

When you are that good you are allowed to have an ego. Nobody ever moaned about Best's ego or Maradona's

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Whenever you speak to people of a certain vintage its the first thing out the mouth "was like a medicine ball when it was wet, not like this balls floating around now" so logically the modern goalkeeper has a more difficult job with a ball that moves more and quicker.

I think they exaggerate. It was nothing like the weight of a medicine ball. As a kid playing schools football in the 50s, I remember the old leather case-balls we played with being hard to kick long distances, especially when they were wet. The older the ball, the more it tended to absorb water. But the professional game obviously started every match with a brand new top of the range leather job, , and it at least started the game with a shiny protective coating, a bit like a new cricket ball. Whatever the case, professional footballers had no difficulty launching it when they needed to!

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

When you are that good you are allowed to have an ego. Nobody ever moaned about Best's ego or Maradona's

who`s moaning,it`s just a fact

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Parkes was avarage at best... I spent the mid to late 70's behind the goal at the front of the North Bank. Never once was I confident with him between the sticks. Always had a face palm moment in him... Saw him sat back on the ball once, with his **** giving the momentum to it to cross the line... Even I spat my Bovril out at that one.

Think we won't agree on this. I remember him from mid 60s onwards and the folly of relative youth means that my memories of him might be wrong but strong nonetheless. But still think he was better than many remember

 

[old wittonian]

I think they exaggerate. It was nothing like the weight of a medicine ball. As a kid playing schools football in the 50s, I remember the old leather case-balls we played with being hard to kick long distances, especially when they were wet. The older the ball, the more it tended to absorb water. But the professional game obviously started every match with a brand new top of the range leather job, , and it at least started the game with a shiny protective coating, a bit like a new cricket ball. Whatever the case, professional footballers had no difficulty launching it when they needed to!

Back in the day they would have needed heavier, stronger, footwear than they use now.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Think we won't agree on this. I remember him from mid 60s onwards and the folly of relative youth means that my memories of him might be wrong but strong nonetheless. But still think he was better than many remember

Made too many daft mistakes for me. Could be brilliant on his day, but guilty of too many howlers. The one I quite liked was Dave McLaren, unspectacular but very solid. Boswell probably the worst I have ever seen. In that 0-6 v Liverpool he was at fault for 5 of the goals. I think that defeat was what caused Ronnie Allen to get the sack, IIRC. Pity, as he was a bloody good manager.

 

[AndyWolves]

Rui is a great keeper who has had an inconsistent seqson. Xg is a pile of *******s. Stat's are a load of *******s, you can twist them too easily. The end.

Is it pure coincidence that during Rui's inconsistent season he's got really poor stats?

Exactly what is being twisted? Stats are stats, how they're used is up for debate, but statistics are the closest thing we have to an unbiased view of events.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

Made too many daft mistakes for me. Could be brilliant on his day, but guilty of too many howlers. The one I quite liked was Dave McLaren, unspectacular but very solid. Boswell probably the worst I have ever seen. In that 0-6 v Liverpool he was at fault for 5 of the goals. I think that defeat was what caused Rinnie Allen to get the sack, IIRC. Pity, as he was a bloody good manager.

as I said should have signed banks might just have won the league

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Back in the day they would have needed heavier, stronger, footwear than they use now.

Yes, of course, just take a look at the team photos of the 40s and 50s. The old boots were always brown leather, and you needed to apply 'Dubbin' regularly to keep the leather supple and keep them from absorbing water. By the 60s the balls were a lot lighter and the boots more like what we have today

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Is it pure coincidence that during Rui's inconsistent season he's got really poor stats?

Exactly what is being twisted? Stats are stats, how they're used is up for debate, but statistics are the closest thing we have to an unbiased view of events.

Keep going mate. Too many innumerates on here. My background is not science and maths at all, but I was forced to learn basic statistical methods later in life and it really opened my eyes. Blaming statistics is like blaming VAR -- they can both be properly applied or completely misapplied, but that's the fault of the statistician and the VAR referee, not the science of statistics or VAR!

 

[Highlandwolf2]

Made too many daft mistakes for me. Could be brilliant on his day, but guilty of too many howlers. The one I quite liked was Dave McLaren, unspectacular but very solid. Boswell probably the worst I have ever seen. In that 0-6 v Liverpool he was at fault for 5 of the goals. I think that defeat was what caused Ronnie Allen to get the sack, IIRC. Pity, as he was a bloody good manager.

What surprised me was that Boswell (yes, I still have nightmares of the 0-6 defeat) warmed up at the side of the pitch not between the posts. Not significant perhaps but not seen it before or since. He also seemed a slightly frail GK. Ronnie Allen would have been an excellent manager I think; he built an exciting team in his short stay here and signed players who became legends - the Doog , Mike Bailey etc.

 

[Manic88]

This is really clutching at straws, we are low on passion, desire, motivation, & playing poorly all over the pitch - four goals isn’t the reason for this

maybe, maybe, you could make a case for Ruddy as he would have physically kicked about 5 players up the **** after the first goal Monday night

 

[Deleted member 5340]

Think we won't agree on this. I remember him from mid 60s onwards and the folly of relative youth means that my memories of him might be wrong but strong nonetheless. But still think he was better than many remember

To be fair, I was only witnessing at the end of his career... I was a lot happier when Bradshaw had the gloves on.

 

[AndyWolves]

Keep going mate. Too many innumerates on here. My background is not science and maths at all, but I was forced to learn basic statistical methods later in life and it really opened my eyes. Blaming statistics is like blaming VAR -- they can both be properly applied or completely misapplied, but that's the fault of the statistician and the VAR referee, not the science of statistics or VAR!

You should read the drunkards walk, it really opened my eyes around how probability affects us and how likely events are to happen.

 

[whitnash wolf ex.dewsbury]

You should read the drunkards walk, it really opened my eyes around how probability affects us and how likely events are to happen.

you are more likely to be struck by lightening on a golf course then be attacked by a shark.
but who sees a shark on a golf course?

 

[SoCal_Wolf]

Surprise, surprise...Rui is having an inconsistent year when the whole team is struggling and we've had injuries to key players in the defense. Remember, football is a team sport; a well-organized defensive line will allow the keeper to see and react to the ball better. For example, not having some of our best headers in the team for set plays really hurt us this year and we leaked more goals in this area than in previous years. I'm a stats guy, no doubt about it (my job)--but, the stats do miss some of the intangible aspects of the game...confidence, positioning, how well the shot was struck and where it was placed, etc. Bowen's shot was zipped into the low corner from pretty close and hit the post on the way in; that was a difficult shot to keep out, IMO.

I agree that missing balls at the near post is not a good look nor was screwing up the wall against Newcastle. That said, I do believe that Rui is a good keeper (usually a very reliable shot stopper, like his great save from Antonio's earlier shot) and has more years left in him. I also agree that this year is a difficult year to really judge players/team - Covid has affected everything about the game (missing games, training/team building activities, family time, game scheduling, no fans, etc.), injuries to key members, lack of preseason and mental break have all greatly impacted our play. Due to this, I'm more inclined to get behind the players/coaches/club to get them through this **** season than to be highly critical of them. Indeed, some of you have admonished me for being snide and critical of your posts and not being sensitive to how you might be suffering from depression and life difficulties, especially during this difficult time. Okay - something for me to think about and I've tried to moderate my posts. What I get frustrated about and don't quite understand is that some of you don't give this benefit of the doubt to the players and coaches. So, the constant negativity and hypocrisy gets on my nerves.

 

[rg4352]

Think Rui is the least of our problems currently, although I do think he is weak at commanding his box, especially in comparison to Ruddy who you can always hear during matches instructing the defence, and I think Ruddy claims the ball better and distributes it quicker, always thought Rui looks very flustered when he gets a pass back with opposition near him. However, I think from a realistic purchase perspective, considering we aren’t one of the big boys, we have done very well with the quality of keeper we have got.
He has weaknesses, as does Ruddy, but as we don’t have mega millions for a keeper, I think we have done extremely well to have someone of Patricio’s calibre here, despite his poor season, and to be fair I think we could claim most of our team are having a poor season currently. Hopefully we can change this next season!

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Or playing behind a very poor defence?

Obviously- and one that’s chopping and changing every week. He’s trying to cover for others inadequacy as well as doing his own job.

Bound to have an impact on his game - doesn’t require a phd in statistics to understand that - it’s simply common sense. Which, incidentally isn’t in the statistics phd syllabus.

 

[Deleted member 9202LYK]

Is it pure coincidence that during Rui's inconsistent season he's got really poor stats?

Exactly what is being twisted? Stats are stats, how they're used is up for debate, but statistics are the closest thing we have to an unbiased view of events.

Statistics say what has happened, but nothing about why. (I know there’s correlation and so on but non-parametric correlation between, say, Coady being low on confidence and Rui deciding to punch rather than catch, are very difficult to do.

Rui having poor statistics says nothing about why that is. If we had a premier league defence we would have a world class Keeper again.

there are at least 7 players in this team that need upgrading before Rui so why don’t we all do our best to ensure he goes back to sporting on a free?

talk about cutting your noses off to spite your faces!

 

[Mugwump]

Is it pure coincidence that during Rui's inconsistent season he's got really poor stats?

Exactly what is being twisted? Stats are stats, how they're used is up for debate, but statistics are the closest thing we have to an unbiased view of events.

I dont really think they are unbiased tbh because you dont get the entire picture. There is just so many variables and and things you just cant see. For example, what if a shot takes a slight deflection and that contributes to an error?

Its just become a modern day thing in football, like this xg cobblers. Means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[AndyWolves]

I dont really think they are unbiased tbh because you dont get the entire picture. There is just so many variables and and things you just cant see. For example, what if a shot takes a slight deflection and that contributes to an error?

Its just become a modern day thing in football, like this xg cobblers. Means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

That's the same for all keepers, no? Remember this isn't looking at Ruis stats in isolation, it's comparing Rui to all other keepers in the league. Provided the data is gathered consistently then it's a fair way to evaluate.

Coupled with my own thoughts that Rui has made some basic mistakes this season (Newcastle and Spurs spring to mind). Also, Martinez at villa has been excellent which is also shown in the data suggests it's not cobblers.

 

[AndyWolves]

Statistics say what has happened, but nothing about why. (I know there’s correlation and so on but non-parametric correlation between, say, Coady being low on confidence and Rui deciding to punch rather than catch, are very difficult to do.

Rui having poor statistics says nothing about why that is. If we had a premier league defence we would have a world class Keeper again.

there are at least 7 players in this team that need upgrading before Rui so why don’t we all do our best to ensure he goes back to sporting on a free?

talk about cutting your noses off to spite your faces!

Rui has been poor this season, he has cost us goals. That's a fact. (Newcastle, Spurs, near post Vs Liverpool & West Ham).

There are obviously variables that can't be accounted for, but does it make any difference why Rui has been poor? Surely the fact he has been is what we're talking about here.

 

[Hot Fuss]

It’s one of the biggest myths in football that the ball was loads heavier in the 40s/50s.

 

[SingYourHeartsOut]

It’s one of the biggest myths in football that the ball was loads heavier in the 40s/50s.

Same weight (14-16 oz) since before the start of the league, which is quite surprising if you think about it. However in wet conditions the pre-60's balls took on a lot of water.

 

[goldfish]

"The quality of shots". How exactly is that defined and decided? At best it's structured subjectivity, at worst total BS.

Yeah, it's structured subjectivity. All stats are at some level! Is a successful pass one where a teammate touches the ball first? Or does the teammate have to control the ball? What if the teammate is fouled for a penalty before they get to it? What if a teammate does receive it, but it puts them in jeopardy or forces them wide?

So it shouldn't be seen as absolute, but I think it's a useful metric.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Yeah, it's structured subjectivity. All stats are at some level! Is a successful pass one where a teammate touches the ball first? Or does the teammate have to control the ball? What if the teammate is fouled for a penalty before they get to it? What if a teammate does receive it, but it puts them in jeopardy or forces them wide?

So it shouldn't be seen as absolute, but I think it's a useful metric.

TY for the explanation. My first degree is maths, stats and computing and my masters Operational Research so l understand the principles well enough but not the detail in this case.

 

[Hot Fuss]

Same weight (14-16 oz) since before the start of the league, which is quite surprising if you think about it. However in wet conditions the pre-60's balls took on a lot of water.

That is true in fairness.

people think they played with a cannonball in the 50s and a balloon now. Fact is if the ball Billy Wright used or the one used at Molineux on Monday smashed you in the face it will hurt.

 

[Black Country Wanderer]

It’s one of the biggest myths in football that the ball was loads heavier in the 40s/50s.

Your correct the weight was the same when dry,but the 50s balls hadnt got the plastic coatings they have now and when wet probably weighed more than twice that
As someone who played with those balls and ankle high cork studded boots, i can tell you for a fact these modern balls are far easier to kick lol,and i wont go into the laces across your brow when heading either,i still have the scars

 

[Mugwump]

That's the same for all keepers, no? Remember this isn't looking at Ruis stats in isolation, it's comparing Rui to all other keepers in the league. Provided the data is gathered consistently then it's a fair way to evaluate.

Coupled with my own thoughts that Rui has made some basic mistakes this season (Newcastle and Spurs spring to mind). Also, Martinez at villa has been excellent which is also shown in the data suggests it's not cobblers.

It's utter cobblers.

 

[AndyWolves]

It's utter cobblers.

Well, that's me convinced.

 

[Nige100]

Said before playing behind our defence this season would have anyone a bag of nerves. Rui for me is the last person to receive criticism in the current set up.

 

[Mugwump]

Well, that's me convinced.

You know it makes sense

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

I don't think he's been that bad this season. I thought he had a spell in his first season where he wasn't all that, and I think he has made blunders but there isn't very much pressure on the striker half the time anyone has a shot.

I don't buy into xG at the moment. Brighton are crap no matter what the xG says In years to come, when the quality of the data gets better, when people start using image recognition to have a look at the positioning of the defending players and the pace of the ball as it comes to the guy taking the shot, I can see it being useful as a tool to say when a team is alright but can't shoot for ****. But you can do that better by just watching the game.
At the moment it's a nice idea that isn't fit for purpose. Or in Mugwump's words, a load of old cobblers.

 

[WillenhallWolfie1980]

Great shot stopper , But thats it in my eyes , Get beat at his near post far too easy and its happened a few times this season

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

Another disgusting performance.

Given Ramsdale's upturn in recent months, strong case to say he's the worst regular keeper in the league this season.

Wood's first goal is a fantastic finish, but look at where he scores from. You can't score from there. Awful positioning.

Then, the third goal, disgraceful.

Not to mention he doesn't do anything right other than that, in terms of his kicking, doesn't come off his line.

 

[Muscat]

Have to agree, staggering amount of errors in recent weeks. Not going to be any better next season either given his age.

 

[TheConcourse]

Subbuteo keeper.