Refs

[Woburn Wolf]

Watching the Liverpool v Arsenal game on TV and already there have been 2 yellow cards for cynical fouls. If we had had this ref for the Cardiff game they would have finished with a lot less than eleven players. I am concerned that we won't get protection from referees whilst we are in the Championship.

 

[we8wba]

Nothing we can do

We just need keep heads down and get on with it

 

[wolf of sedgley]

The football league seems to be proud of its dinosaur referees.

 

[QB Wolf]

It is what it is, get used to it and get on with it, no excuses.

 

[Deleted member 3751]

We can't change it and I doubt Nuno being in their ear will have the same effect as say Warnock or McCarthy, because obviously we're a team of diving foreigners. I do think our lads will get to grips with it though, nothing really to worry about in my opinion

 

[Jonzy54]

Get rid of that clown Riley and his fawning cohorts .He was a crap referee and it is reflected in the system he presides over .
We have an ageing Elite Referees list which is desperately in need of new blood but only 1 Referee was elected to the panel this season .
It's the same old same old every year administered by incompetents.

 

[Norman Bell]

I thought the referee in the Arsenal v Liverpool was too quick to issue yellow cards early on. I am now going to contradict myself as a bad foul is a bad foul and deserves punishing no matter what minute of the game it occurs. Yet for me certain officials feel that every foul is a booking.

 

[Fifty Niner]

I thought the referee in the Arsenal v Liverpool was too quick to issue yellow cards early on. I am now going to contradict myself as a bad foul is a bad foul and deserves punishing no matter what minute of the game it occurs. Yet for me certain officials feel that every foul is a booking.

The refs aren't helped by the players making tackles and challenges look a lot worse in order to their opponent booked or sent off. In other words, cheating.

 

[Jonzy54]

I thought the referee in the Arsenal v Liverpool was too quick to issue yellow cards early on. I am now going to contradict myself as a bad foul is a bad foul and deserves punishing no matter what minute of the game it occurs. Yet for me certain officials feel that every foul is a booking.

Most do these days and it annoys the hell out of me

 

[Jonzy54]

The refs aren't helped by the players making tackles and challenges look a lot worse in order to their opponent booked or sent off. In other words, cheating.

Plus the imaginary card being waved .They said they were going to be stamped out by issuing a yellow to the perpetrator but you never ever see it.
Simple solution if it happens just reverse the decision even if it is a penalty .It would disappear in an instant .

 

[Fifty Niner]

Plus the imaginary card being waved .They said they were going to be stamped out by issuing a yellow to the perpetrator but you never ever see it.
Simple solution if it happens just reverse the decision even if it is a penalty .It would disappear in an instant .

That would be a great idea, similar to what they do in rugby. Punish the team by handing possession back to the opposition.

 

[turner845]

Get rid of that clown Riley and his fawning cohorts .He was a crap referee and it is reflected in the system he presides over .
We have an ageing Elite Referees list which is desperately in need of new blood but only 1 Referee was elected to the panel this season .
It's the same old same old every year administered by incompetents.

Yet according to yourself the Football League referees are no good anyway so why would you want to promote these to the Premier League/SG1?

Maybe Scott Duncan should be promoted, or James Linnington perhaps?

 

[Jonzy54]

Yet according to yourself the Football League referees are no good anyway so why would you want to promote these to the Premier League/SG1?

Maybe Scott Duncan should be promoted, or James Linnington perhaps?

I have never said they all aren't good enough at all.There are some good ones around who deserve a chance but are never going to get it when we keep the same Panel year on year.Where is the incentive in that?

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Personally I think the system is outdated. With today's technology the referee should be there to administer decisions with a quick reference to one or more watching the game on a screen. This would help reduce the bias the ref and linesman use in making decisions intentional or otherwise. Obviously this system could only be used in higher profile leagues, etc but with so much money invested in football it could only benefit the game.
This might slow the game down initially but not long term as players would know they cannot get away with things they do now. Off the ball incidents would be punished and therefore again would lead to them being introduced. We have the technology and all it would take is letting the ref know such and such happened and the ref then could take action or not. To do this we would have to change one thing that the refs would hate and that would be to make them accountable for the decisions they make.
It may not be a perfect system but it would be a fairer system than what I feel is cheating the fans at the moment.

 

[Jonzy54]

I have never said they all aren't good enough at all.There are some good ones around who deserve a chance but are never going to get it when we keep the same Panel year on year.Where is the incentive in that?

To extend it further Tony Harrington Darren England Peter Bankes Oliver Langford and Andrew Madley to name but 5 are good enough to be permanent fixtures on the PL panel but we keep getting the usual suspects year on year some of whom get very infrequent fixtures .They should all be good and ready to officiate every week but some aren't and some don't get the chance.

 

[Jonzy54]

Personally I think the system is outdated. With today's technology the referee should be there to administer decisions with a quick reference to one or more watching the game on a screen. This would help reduce the bias the ref and linesman use in making decisions intentional or otherwise. Obviously this system could only be used in higher profile leagues, etc but with so much money invested in football it could only benefit the game.
This might slow the game down initially but not long term as players would know they cannot get away with things they do now. Off the ball incidents would be punished and therefore again would lead to them being introduced. We have the technology and all it would take is letting the ref know such and such happened and the ref then could take action or not. To do this we would have to change one thing that the refs would hate and that would be to make them accountable for the decisions they make.
It may not be a perfect system but it would be a fairer system than what I feel is cheating the fans at the moment.

There is that much money floating around the game these days allied to a degree of familiarity.For years now I have advocated interchanging the best Referees in Europe to undertake games in the respective leagues.Referees are full time at the top level and it would be very easy to send teams say once or twice a month to officiate in say France Spain Italy and Germany and the same over here.
Michael Oliver refereed Man Utd Man City Chelsea and Arsenal at least 5 times each last season .As I said familiarity .

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Personally I think the system is outdated. With today's technology the referee should be there to administer decisions with a quick reference to one or more watching the game on a screen. This would help reduce the bias the ref and linesman use in making decisions intentional or otherwise. Obviously this system could only be used in higher profile leagues, etc but with so much money invested in football it could only benefit the game.
This might slow the game down initially but not long term as players would know they cannot get away with things they do now. Off the ball incidents would be punished and therefore again would lead to them being introduced. We have the technology and all it would take is letting the ref know such and such happened and the ref then could take action or not. To do this we would have to change one thing that the refs would hate and that would be to make them accountable for the decisions they make.
It may not be a perfect system but it would be a fairer system than what I feel is cheating the fans at the moment.

Or just give teams the right to challenge a decision via video playback like in other sports.

 

[Norman Bell]

The refs aren't helped by the players making tackles and challenges look a lot worse in order to their opponent booked or sent off. In other words, cheating.

I agree with you that the rolling around and this pathetic screaming that some players are adept at doing when tackled does not help refs, as you so rightly say cheating. For me not only should diving be reviewed by a panel so should play acting as that is a scourge as well.

 

[Fifty Niner]

I agree with you that the rolling around and this pathetic screaming that some players are adept at doing when tackled does not help refs, as you so rightly say cheating. For me not only should diving be reviewed by a panel so should play acting as that is a scourge as well.

Spot on NB. In fact, I would like to see the reversing decisions as Jonzy suggested to be an option for the reviewing panel. If a team has gained points by cheating then the decision gained is reversed and any subsequent advantage be it points or goals be cancelled. Thus, retrospectively, a dive to win a penalty is reversed. The diving player gets a ban and any goals and points gained by the said penalty are cancelled. That way the whole team is punished.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

I agree refs shouldn't just be from England, officials in this country work their way up from the lower leagues where it's more acceptable to let things go, it becomes ingrained in them, by the time they get to our level they see nico yennaris wiping out Ruben neves and they tell him to get up

The rules are the same all over the world, so why do we allow them to be interpreted differently in our division like certain challenges are exempt

 

[turner845]

To extend it further Tony Harrington Darren England Peter Bankes Oliver Langford and Andrew Madley to name but 5 are good enough to be permanent fixtures on the PL panel but we keep getting the usual suspects year on year some of whom get very infrequent fixtures .They should all be good and ready to officiate every week but some aren't and some don't get the chance.

Would this be the same Peter Bankes who works/worked for the Liverpool County FA? You have claimed many times in the past that referees are promoted on the basis of nepotism and/or because of their jobs. Surely someone working for the FA is an example of this. Tony Harrington was also part of the worse refereeing decisons from last season and was suspended from officiating for 14 days following the infamous Newcastle v Burton match.

 

[Perton Wolf]

I agree refs shouldn't just be from England, officials in this country work their way up from the lower leagues where it's more acceptable to let things go, it becomes ingrained in them, by the time they get to our level they see nico yennaris wiping out Ruben neves and they tell him to get up

The rules are the same all over the world, so why do we allow them to be interpreted differently in our division like certain challenges are exempt

Because the referee promotion process in this country is corrupt and is based on who you know, rather than your ability.

 

[turner845]

Because the referee promotion process in this country is corrupt and is based on who you know, rather than your ability.

And how do you know the process isn't any different in other countries? I love how SRF says that officials in this country work their way up from the lower leagues implying that it doesn't happen in other country's and that they go straight to officiating the top tier.

 

[Jonzy54]

Would this be the same Peter Bankes who works/worked for the Liverpool County FA? You have claimed many times in the past that referees are promoted on the basis of nepotism and/or because of their jobs. Surely someone working for the FA is an example of this. Tony Harrington was also part of the worse refereeing decisons from last season and was suspended from officiating for 14 days following the infamous Newcastle v Burton match.

If they are good Referees I have no problem.Each time I have see them Referee they have reffed well and that is what I have based my opinion on .These refs need to be given a chance rather than the same old faces that officiate in the EPL.

 

[turner845]

If they are good Referees I have no problem.Each time I have see them Referee they have reffed well and that is what I have based my opinion on .These refs need to be given a chance rather than the same old faces that officiate in the EPL.

If they were good enough then they would have made SG1 just as Chris Kavanagh has this year.

 

[Perton Wolf]

And how do you know the process isn't any different in other countries? I love how SRF says that officials in this country work their way up from the lower leagues implying that it doesn't happen in other country's and that they go straight to officiating the top tier.

It could well be, the only way refs get up through the lower leagues and to the top is by appeasing clubs to get good club marks, rather than giving the correct decisions by the letter of the law.

The fact Refs have to essentially pander to clubs at lower levels means that they get into bad habits of appeasement rather than actually applying the laws properly. It's madness how a biased party essentially rates the referee and decides whether they're promoted or not, such markings should only be taken into account if they're completed by an independent assessor.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I'm sure @Jonzy54 will correct me if I'm wrong but I read somewhere Football League referees know they could be called upon to referee any match be it Championship or L2. Obviously the better reviews from assessors will dictate some will referee consistently in the Championship but we could have referees who are used to League Two/One suddenly being thrown in at the Championship allowing incidents slide that you can get away with at League Two/One or may not be able to keep pace with the speed of football at this level.

 

[turner845]

It could well be, the only way refs get up through the lower leagues and to the top is by appeasing clubs to get good club marks, rather than giving the correct decisions by the letter of the law.

The fact Refs have to essentially pander to clubs at lower levels means that they get into bad habits of appeasement rather than actually applying the laws properly. It's madness how a biased party essentially rates the referee and decides whether they're promoted or not, such markings should only be taken into account if they're completed by an independent assessor.

I don't know about the higher levels of the game but in the lower leagues club marks are generally only seen as a guide and are put up against the result of the match to try and show if markings are based on that. To suggest that referees get promoted based on club marks and pander to lower level clubs is an incredibly naive suggestion and couldn't be further from the truth. You seem to be taking Jonzy's word as gospel when in reality he couldn't be further from the truth and is only making these comments because he failed to make the grade himself so takes it out on others.

 

[Jonzy54]

It could well be, the only way refs get up through the lower leagues and to the top is by appeasing clubs to get good club marks, rather than giving the correct decisions by the letter of the law.

The fact Refs have to essentially pander to clubs at lower levels means that they get into bad habits of appeasement rather than actually applying the laws properly. It's madness how a biased party essentially rates the referee and decides whether they're promoted or not, such markings should only be taken into account if they're completed by an independent assessor.

I'm sure @Jonzy54 will correct me if I'm wrong but I read somewhere Football League referees know they could be called upon to referee any match be it Championship or L2. Obviously the better reviews from assessors will dictate some will referee consistently in the Championship but we could have referees who are used to League Two/One suddenly being thrown in at the Championship allowing incidents slide that you can get away with at League Two/One or may not be able to keep pace with the speed of football at this level.

There is a hierarchy.The better and to an extent more experienced ones get the Championship games but do drop down to L1 and L2.The 'lesser lights' are usually confined to L1 and L2.
The thing is the system stifles ability and the EPL group are an ageing one with very little throughout from below which causes stagnation.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

The refs aren't helped by the players making tackles and challenges look a lot worse in order to their opponent booked or sent off. In other words, cheating.

How often does a referee use the result of the challenge to determine if it was a foul and/or the severity of it.

If a player's fouled, disadvantage but stays on his feet how often have you seen a penalty given? Until that changes player's aren't going to stop making the most of contact to either get the decision or to ensure there's punishment.

 

[Coleshill Wolf]

Retrospective bans for players who blatantly dive/cheat. For instance when Forestieri tried it on against Sako, he should have retrospectively received a 3 match ban. If the offence is repeated within say a 12 month period, he gets a 5 game ban.

It would soon stop the cheats - it may not help initially with any advantage but knowing a lengthy ban was a possible punishment would reduce the amount of time it happens.

 

[turner845]

There is a hierarchy.The better and to an extent more experienced ones get the Championship games but do drop down to L1 and L2.The 'lesser lights' are usually confined to L1 and L2.
The thing is the system stifles ability and the EPL group are an ageing one with very little throughout from below which causes stagnation.

Which is why we now have SG2 as it allows the younger referees to earn their corn before being promoted to SG1. As a referee I thought you would be aware of this?

 

[SakosRightFoot]

And how do you know the process isn't any different in other countries? I love how SRF says that officials in this country work their way up from the lower leagues implying that it doesn't happen in other country's and that they go straight to officiating the top tier.

Thats not what i was saying, it was aimed at the standard of play in our lower leagues

 

[Fifty Niner]

How often does a referee use the result of the challenge to determine if it was a foul and/or the severity of it.

If a player's fouled, disadvantage but stays on his feet how often have you seen a penalty given? Until that changes player's aren't going to stop making the most of contact to either get the decision or to ensure there's punishment.

I agree referees don't help by 'punishing' the honest player but I would lay the blame at his fellow pros. Refs are now so used to players dropping as if shot at the mere touch that the honest 'stay on your feet' player is likely to be seen as not fouled. I'm not excusing it but it is something to be considered.

 

[Jonzy54]

Which is why we now have SG2 as it allows the younger referees to earn their corn before being promoted to SG1. As a referee I thought you would be aware of this?

Fully aware Mr Angry
The EPL is a closed shop
Still waiting for the PM where you tell me who I am as you said you know me .

 

[Jonzy54]

If they were good enough then they would have made SG1 just as Chris Kavanagh has this year.

Yes just the one
Lee Mason is on the list and doesn't Referee many games and the word on the circuit is because he isn't good enough but he stays there .The system needs a complete revamp but turkeys will never vote for Christmas.

 

[Fifty Niner]

Retrospective bans for players who blatantly dive/cheat. For instance when Forestieri tried it on against Sako, he should have retrospectively received a 3 match ban. If the offence is repeated within say a 12 month period, he gets a 5 game ban.

It would soon stop the cheats - it may not help initially with any advantage but knowing a lengthy ban was a possible punishment would reduce the amount of time it happens.

I don't think bans will stop it. Many teams have sufficient cover for those amount of games and it is treated as 'taking one for the team'. For me, as I have mentioned, the only way to stop it is to penalise the team which is what happens in games like rugby and hockey. Sin binning, sending off, reversing decisions and retrospectively cancelling goals/points advantages gained by blatant cheating/diving is the only way to stop it.

 

[turner845]

Yes just the one
Lee Mason is on the list and doesn't Referee many games and the word on the circuit is because he isn't good enough but he stays there .The system needs a complete revamp but turkeys will never vote for Christmas.

More would have been promoted to SG1 if they were good enough but the fact is they were deemed not. Even according to yourself one of the better ones was part of an officiating team who failed to apply a basic law and as a result got suspended from all refereeing duties for 14 days. You also say that Mason doesn't get many games but he has already officiated in more games than most SG1 referees this season and did a lot less Football League games last season than most, which suggests that he was never 'demoted'. You aren't part of the circuit so you don't know what goes on.

Fully aware Mr Angry
The EPL is a closed shop
Still waiting for the PM where you tell me who I am as you said you know me .

As i mentioned above the promotion of Kavanagh shows that it isn't a closed shop. Just because I have spoke out about and ruffled a few feathers about you being a proven failed official isn't a reason for me to come out and reveal my name - anyway you will probably know who i am.

 

[Jonzy54]

More would have been promoted to SG1 if they were good enough but the fact is they were deemed not. Even according to yourself one of the better ones was part of an officiating team who failed to apply a basic law and as a result got suspended from all refereeing duties for 14 days. You also say that Mason doesn't get many games but he has already officiated in more games than most SG1 referees this season and did a lot less Football League games last season than most, which suggests that he was never 'demoted'. You aren't part of the circuit so you don't know what goes on.


As i mentioned above the promotion of Kavanagh shows that it isn't a closed shop. Just because I have spoke out about and ruffled a few feathers about you being a proven failed official isn't a reason for me to come out and reveal my name - anyway you will probably know who i am.

Please enlighten me how I am a failed official ? I refereed in the Conference and in the Central League and Football Combination and officiated across Europe in various tournaments across a 2000 game career.I am quite content with that thank you.
I never asked who you are but you said you know who I am which you don't .

 

[Jonzy54]

More would have been promoted to SG1 if they were good enough but the fact is they were deemed not. Even according to yourself one of the better ones was part of an officiating team who failed to apply a basic law and as a result got suspended from all refereeing duties for 14 days. You also say that Mason doesn't get many games but he has already officiated in more games than most SG1 referees this season and did a lot less Football League games last season than most, which suggests that he was never 'demoted'. You aren't part of the circuit so you don't know what goes on.


As i mentioned above the promotion of Kavanagh shows that it isn't a closed shop. Just because I have spoke out about and ruffled a few feathers about you being a proven failed official isn't a reason for me to come out and reveal my name - anyway you will probably know who i am.

I happen to socialise with several Referees on the circuit so I know full well what is going on do you?
You just can't help yourself with your antagonistic tone can you?Laughable and juvenile really and indicative of a failed football wannabe.Touche!!