Other ways of playing.

[wwbug]

Probably like all fans I am absolutely gutted about Sasa and for Sasa
Can anybody come up with some ideas about how we can get goals from this group of players
For me Podence , Hwang,Neto Guedes , Nunes or Traoré have got to be in the 6 yard box much more but how do we do that ?
Do we play 442 with wide midfielders and no Moutinho or do we use overlapping fullbacks where I cant my see Jonny playing .
Can Nunes and Guedes push into the box and add goals .
I just can’t see Costa adding more than Jose did .
I do believe many fans know more about football than our past managers .
Suggestions for a change in style where players can flood the box against the lesser teams .

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

 

[AndyWolves]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

This for me, it's not the players it's how we play. We don't do anything quickly, we don't try to unsettle teams - we let them get back and get organised. We don't seem to have a plan for how to attack, or if we do it isn't very good. The only thing we seem to be able to do is get the ball wide right and then get an early ball into the box.

When you watch most other teams, there is movement, players trying to create space, passes are fizzed around and risks taken. We can do the slow, controlled stuff really well but we need to collectively know when to speed things up a bit.

I don't think it would take much to change, it might even be a confidence / belief thing - a few results might change that, or maybe even someone like Diego Costa bringing a winners mindset might help too.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Yes, get the ball in the box quickly. We take too long trying to find a perfect way through but that just gives defences time to regroup.
We‘re attacking more but still sometimes there a bit too much passing sideways near their box……just dump it in. Get players in and around the box.
Keep crosses away from goalkeepers…….pretty please.

When on the byline, don’t send a low hard shot across towards the goal only to be easily cut out by a defender

Neto, when on the byline, don’t take a shot……look to make a pass. Podence could have scored his second if Neto had not taken a bad shot.

 

[Oldvic161]

When we attack, the midfield has to be looking to pick up the 2nd balls, those headed out by the 15 defenders in the box, Neto trying to run at 100mph and then scuff shots wide clearly doesn’t work, like they told adama, slow down. We need at least 2 in the area between the posts and out to the pen spot, we rarely get one.

 

[wwbug]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

Great post .

 

[Axle]

Gimme some 4-2-4

Nunes and Neves in midfield.

Traore and Neto wide.

Raul and An Other (Costa / Hwang) through the middle.

Time to go back to Mad Mick / Graham Taylor / Turner days.

We'd get torn apart sometimes, but it's gotta be better than the attractive but ineffective stuff we're served up currently.

 

[Mark Rankines Lovechild]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

This is what I have been saying since last season. Our possession of the ball is slow and without any real intent. Even in good positions we slow down play and end up playing the ball in front of a packed defence. We looked slightly better on the break this weekend and an increase in speed and tempo of our play I think will see us score more goals.

 

[steve vena]

Everyone knows its too slow , 31000 at the mol every week and everyone else who watches us. It's down to the staff to implement it.

 

[wwbug]

It would help if we never had two sides of the team playing wide simultaneously .
If we attack wide the other wing of play comes in to the box . Like a pendulum.

 

[The Finkler]

When we attack, the midfield has to be looking to pick up the 2nd balls, those headed out by the 15 defenders in the box, Neto trying to run at 100mph and then scuff shots wide clearly doesn’t work, like they told adama, slow down. We need at least 2 in the area between the posts and out to the pen spot, we rarely get one.

This is a good point and when looking at shooting stats only about 5% of our shots have been made in this area.

See the 'shot conversion rate' post we have bang on the average number of shots in the league but nowhere near the amount of average goals for the amount of shots taken and this could be a big part of the problem per your point - where these shots are happening.

In terms of the opening posters question and your point it's how we get more players committed in the box and then finding them and surely has to be a combination of committed forwards and midfielders getting into those positions when the inside forwards/wingers beat their last man and low balls in the box from the byline or otherwise given the current lack of height in the players versus the majority of defensive players they'll be up against in the league.

To a point this is happening.but far too many "pot shots" / hit and hope / rushing opportunities at the moment. A bit more composure and well see a lot more goals I'm sure and that will come.with confidence ... I just hope the next couple.of games doesn't destroy that.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Last week one of the Prem managers, forget who, said to be bold,take risks, echoed above in Andy's post. The ghost of Nuno lingers large around Molineux; his safety first approach worked well with a firing Jota, Jimenez and Traore able to break forward at incredible pace. Great for the first 2 seasons up but we have not moved forward at all in any way in the way we play. This may be because we haven't had a genuine goal scorer for 2 seasons now and trying to find other ways to get goals; who knows? My concern is that Lage does not give the impression of a manager who will encourage his players to take risks. Arguably this side is potentially better than Nuno's ( apart from CF) but it must be allowed to fly imo. Ok, we may lose by 2 or 3 occasionally rather than the present 1-0 but equally we may turn some sides over 3, 4 or 5 if our forwards are encouraged to get up in numbers. Our possession stats are good, our shot stats are good too but we need to get the ball forward much quicker and get 3 or 4 men in the box.

 

[OLDGOLD]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

Agreed. For me it is as much about mindset as players, formations etc

That said I would like a midfield of Neves and Nunes with Podence in front and a fluid front three of Neto, Traore and Guedes for the next games, which are seen by many as a bit of a free hit. Add the other Traore and maybe Costa and Jiminez into the mix, and, most importantly some licence to attack, and it would at least be entertaining.

 

[Contrarian]

This for me, it's not the players it's how we play. We don't do anything quickly, we don't try to unsettle teams - we let them get back and get organised. We don't seem to have a plan for how to attack, or if we do it isn't very good. The only thing we seem to be able to do is get the ball wide right and then get an early ball into the box.

When you watch most other teams, there is movement, players trying to create space, passes are fizzed around and risks taken. We can do the slow, controlled stuff really well but we need to collectively know when to speed things up a bit.

I don't think it would take much to change, it might even be a confidence / belief thing - a few results might change that, or maybe even someone like Diego Costa bringing a winners mindset might help too.

I agree broadly, though I think the specific strengths and weaknesses of our players do influence how we play. Would assume that if Neves or Moutinho could thread balls through to an attacker smart enough to latch onto them, they would. It's nearly always too far ahead, or they take so long to decide what to do, the ball to the wide man in space is the best option. They would if they could but they cant? Not sure, all I know is this "transition" seems like pushing water uphill for us.

Several times in recent matches, you can see movement of a forward, yet the pass never happens. It's all in slow motion. When we speed up, we lose possession. Podences many flicks that go anywhere - though he did a brilliant one that created Netos early chance against Southampton. Law of averages, the next 10 will go nowhere...and he isn't going to take a defender, so leaves not much else. Not meanign to get at him in particular, been said many times, if our forwards didn't have flaws, we wouldn't have them. And at current rate, Podence could be in for a 9 or 10 goal season, which would be his career best!

And if we did push forwards up as far as possible, we have another problem in the gap between them and the midfield. No guarantee the ball would ever get to them. I think this is partly due to Neves and Moutinho lack of pace, they stay back so as not to get caught out as both are far slower than average for this level. Is that fixable?

 

[Leigh72]

Not enough first time passing, always taking touches when they don't need to, need to have more faith in their own ability, also not enough pace on the passes alot of the time

 

[The Clock]

We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno

Watching the Southampton game back , Jacque Oatley ( who is likely to know more than most on here) said in commentary several times that last season BRUNO specifically told the players NOT TO CROSS THE BALL.
Go figure

 

[oldgolded]

Sit them down and make them watch a video of how Brighton played last weekend.

 

[Bogota Wolf]

For me it's just that we are way too slow. Watching most of the sides on MOTD it's quite frightening how fast they now are; I'm talking about sides like Palace, Brighton, Brentford. We're miles behind here. We still haven't shaken off the legacy of Nuno and passing around the back 3 for ages. Moutinho doesn't help here and thank God Dendonker has gone. We just don't seem to be able to ping the ball forward with accuracy. We try dinky little triangles that look nice but rarely achieve anything. If we are incapable of speeding up then we need to rely on Nunes making runs with the ball through mf. What differentiates the Prem from other elite leagues imo is the speed of thought of the top Prem creative players and the ability of the forwards to read their minds and get in good positions. We always seem to be closed down. When was the last time Traore got the ball in space? Wolves need to look at the vids of Haarland and see how he's always looking for space. When he gets the ball he has one thought on his mind - get a shot away. With Sasa out I'm not sure we now have a player who is a natural goal scorer. I think these are potentially worrying times.

Well detailed point Narrfolk!

 

[Ponty]

It would help if we never had two sides of the team playing wide simultaneously .
If we attack wide the other wing of play comes in to the box . Like a pendulum.

Agreed. The horseshoe of doom needs to go. Once we get it down one wing try harder to work it into the box from there rather than taking the safe option and passing the ball painfully slowly via the centre circle to the other wing, repeat ad nauseam...

 

[Ned]

Portuguese football is generally quite slow and possession based. We’ve got a team of Portuguese players and a Portuguese coaching team. It started with Nuno and we don’t seem to be able to completely shift the handbrake, safety first style. Maybe Traore (new one) will add some more dynamism to the midfield when he plays.

 

[Wednesbury Wolf]

Portuguese football is generally quite slow and possession based. We’ve got a team of Portuguese players and a Portuguese coaching team. It started with Nuno and we don’t seem to be able to completely shift the handbrake, safety first style. Maybe Traore (new one) will add some more dynamism to the midfield when he plays.

You've hit the nail on the head there, with our manager, backroom staff and players we can't play any other way. As long as we're a Portuguese operation we're stuck with plodding slow football, it has long been their way and to change it requires a new team which isn't going to happen.

 

[nortonwolf]

I think bruno knows we don't move the ball with enough pace but it takes time to achieve that. Bruno is rebuilding and that's the outcome he wants
Saying it doesn't make it happen, in squad that's played on the counter for so long. This season is a transition but with the age of the players and a bit of patience the only way is up.
Soooo, don't post often given the responses, let's see how this goes

 

[JohnB]

Two approaches - sit deep and play on break (like goal vs Southampton or Liverpool last season or early chances vs Fulham - or we need 3 forwards closer together with more in the box so we can play 1-2s or the low cross from the FBs falls to someone. Playing slow and with 1 in or around the box will lead to us only scoring worldies.

Next 2 games are different as we’ll be in on the break.

 

[Abbobrom]

I have said this before on here, I think that some players are afraid to risk a pass in case it goes wrong. Some of our supporters are soon on the backs of players.

 

[Stafford]

I disagree quite a bit with what has been discussed. I think our transitional play from midfield has improved this season, and there has been some good balance with patient build up control play and counter attacking when the opportunity occurs, especially when podence has been in the middle.

Where we have really been let down is with the front 3 who have been put in some excellent positions. With the likes of Neto Guedes Jiminez really letting us down. There have been periods when you just know we are going to do nothing when we are in good wide positions.

We aren't miles behind Brighton palace etc. They are just currently on form and have momentum behind them. This time in 3 months it will be another 3 teams from the outer 6 **** mix.

 

[Ponty]

I disagree quite a bit with what has been discussed. I think our transitional play from midfield has improved this season, and there has been some good balance with patient build up control play and counter attacking when the opportunity occurs, especially when podence has been in the middle.

Where we have really been let down is with the front 3 who have been put in some excellent positions. With the likes of Neto Guedes Jiminez really letting us down. There have been periods when you just know we are going to do nothing when we are in good wide positions.

We aren't miles behind Brighton palace etc. They are just currently on form and have momentum behind them. This time in 3 months it will be another 3 teams from the outer 6 **** mix.

Our xG game by game so far
Leeds 1.10
Fulham 0.98
Tottenham 0.69
Newcastle 1.13
Bournemouth 1.53
Southampton 1.10

These stats suggest we aren’t putting front players in good positions as much as you suggest. We create a pitiful amount of good openings and that’s why you can easily recall them all.

 

[Ned]

This is where my point of having so many players of the same nationality comes in to play. Different players with different cultures and different footballing ideologies create more varied squads.

It always gets shot down by people but I genuinely think I have a point.

 

[The Finkler]

Our xG game by game so far
Leeds 1.10
Fulham 0.98
Tottenham 0.69
Newcastle 1.13
Bournemouth 1.53
Southampton 1.10

These stats suggest we aren’t putting front players in good positions as much as you suggest. We create a pitiful amount of good openings and that’s why you can easily recall them all.

Xg takes into account distance from which a shot is taken again calling for the team to look to get players further forward and/or awaiting support when players have beaten their man (e.g. Neto) so their is opportunity for more chances within the box to be taken on and (theoretically at least) we should see more goals again shots taken suggests we're perhaps a little too eager to take a longer range shot on or more difficult opportunities.

 

[OLDGOLD]

Portuguese football is generally quite slow and possession based. We’ve got a team of Portuguese players and a Portuguese coaching team. It started with Nuno and we don’t seem to be able to completely shift the handbrake, safety first style. Maybe Traore (new one) will add some more dynamism to the midfield when he plays.

This absolutely. Even the decent Portuguese national sides have often been boring to watch and not won as convincingly as you would have thought they should.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

We don't get enough players forward. We don't have any great finishers. We move the ball in a way that lets opposition teams get back and then try to look for opportunities on the inside all the time,
I think we need to stop praising unecessary tracking back; Podence hasball the time in the world to score against Saints because their right back has pushed forward and podence doesn't track him. Be brave, let attackers be attackers and make defenders do their job properly. It's no use having Raul in the middle of the park or Hwang doubling up on the winger if they are never around the penalty area as a result.

 

[Dan G WWFC]

I'd go for a similar system to how Lile won the league a couple years back.

 

[Nivada]

I'd go for a similar system to how Lile won the league a couple years back.

I like the idea of a league winning formation.

 

[Ian]

We don't get enough players forward. We don't have any great finishers. We move the ball in a way that lets opposition teams get back and then try to look for opportunities on the inside all the time,
I think we need to stop praising unecessary tracking back; Podence hasball the time in the world to score against Saints because their right back has pushed forward and podence doesn't track him. Be brave, let attackers be attackers and make defenders do their job properly. It's no use having Raul in the middle of the park or Hwang doubling up on the winger if they are never around the penalty area as a result.

Indeed!
Wasn't it Klopp that made reference to Wolves asking their attacking players to do too much defending?!
I know its old fashioned but attackers first job is to attack as is the case with defenders main job being able to defend ..... ie Rayan Ait-Nouri.

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

The stats make quite an interesting reading and show that in many aspects were similar to most of the “big six”.

Where we seem to differ is mainly in the final third as we all know, we don’t crest enough opportunities and we’re less clinical than we should when we do.

However the other area is more around how and where we defend, for a team that see so much of the ball we defend mostly in our own defensive third, we rarely press outside of our own third and as a result make/win few tackles in the opposition half.

This is the one thing that I’m hoping Bruno will look to change with Nunes and Traore coming into the middle while I think most of our forwards have the capability to defend from the front it’s just they’re asked/chose to do it too deep.

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[Stafford]

Our xG game by game so far
Leeds 1.10
Fulham 0.98
Tottenham 0.69
Newcastle 1.13
Bournemouth 1.53
Southampton 1.10

These stats suggest we aren’t putting front players in good positions as much as you suggest. We create a pitiful amount of good openings and that’s why you can easily recall them all.

I know our XP is poor.

I was just suggesting we are getting the ball into good areas of the pitch then wasting it.
For me the issue is quality up top. I don't think it's a question of asking too much from our forward players as previous.

 

[Ponty]

I know our XP is poor.

I was just suggesting we are getting the ball into good areas of the pitch then wasting it.
For me the issue is quality up top. I don't think it's a question of asking too much from our forward players as previous.

We play it so slowly that whoever plays up front will be up against a packed and organised defence and as we know ourselves that is hard to score against. We need to get the ball into the box much earlier, the idea playing the ball around will enable an opening to be created has been proven time and again to be nonsense, the forwards rarely waste it, they’re just completely in the pocket of the defence. We’ve defended like that and proven that we can make it really difficult for even the best teams to score.

 

[Direwolf]

It's a final third issue for me our play up to the box is often fine and overall pretty good although I take the point it could always be quicker.

Their seems to be a lack of players in the box to me. We are not getting any lucky ricochets falling to players in front of goal because they are simply not there. Yet frequently we have a couple of players out wide either side. Our long balls in to the box are more often than not too close to the goalkeeper. Lastly our shooting has been inaccurate or misplaced, not venomous enough, or when we have had time or opportunity to shoot we have not taken it.

 

[Tojo the grass]

We need to up the tempo, play with more rhythm, more swagger.

 

[Rauls Headband]

Completely agree with all the comments on needing to move the ball around more quickly (and get it forward more).

Ironically we seem to play some excellent football when we start doing this, and seem more likely to score when we do, yet the players don't seem to have the confidence to do so more often, I wish they would believe in themselves more often.

The 5 subs rule change I think also needs to be given more consideration, this is going to have a big impact for teams that figure out ways to exploit it (and I don't just mean teams with 'squad depth' and bringing on fresh legs), but the ability to change games through change of shape and change of tactics.

You could really see 'games of two halves' if managers start to figure out how to use this to their advantage more effectively, especially considering the fact that the ball is frequently now actually only live in play 50/60 mins of a game.

So do you 'go at it' for the first 30-40 mins in a 'blitzkrieg' style to score a few goals first, and then 'manage' the game after, or the opposite way round (imagine Traore and Costa coming on for the last 30mins of a game at 0-0!).

 

[jrpb-3]

Yes, get the ball in the box quickly. We take too long trying to find a perfect way through but that just gives defences time to regroup.
We‘re attacking more but still sometimes there a bit too much passing sideways near their box……just dump it in. Get players in and around the box.
Keep crosses away from goalkeepers…….pretty please.

When on the byline, don’t send a low hard shot across towards the goal only to be easily cut out by a defender

Neto, when on the byline, don’t take a shot……look to make a pass. Podence could have scored his second if Neto had not taken a bad shot.

This mainly and to help with this we need someone to be the main target/focus in the box. Sasa was going to be that type of player. So now we need someone else. Either bring in another similar player, or play Raul or Hwang in that role. At the moment both spend too much time outside the box. Get them playing in the box then it’s up to the other front lotto get up and support them and get the ball to them.

If we get the ball out wide and put it in to the box quicker we then need the other opposite wide front player to get in the box and support the central player