New thought on VAR

[ricki herberts moustache]

If the referee needs help by VAR, wouldn't it be more sensible for the blowing of the whistle to indicate a request for advice rather than a confirmation of a decision ?
Perhaps they could raise their arm when asking for advice.
I'm fairly sure that if the above were a rule before the game against Newcastle the outcome instead of a penalty would have been a dive free kick or a restart.

After all VAR delivers a much clearer image of proceedings than the ref sees in the heat of the moment.

How about just ditch VAR already and get back to playing the game, and refereeing it, in real-time

 

[Bryce]

It was designed to get rid of the absolute howler and yet it has singularly failed to do that and as for the” it evens itself out “ *******s, does it ****

 

[Contrarian]

Var is not the problem. It is the referees.

I'm beginning to thing VAR is partly trying to correct problems in the rules. Gradual rule changes that have reduced the rate of goals in open play, hence winning penalties and set pieces by "instigating contact" has become the game. So we need VAR to try and cut out the cheating. If players didn't fake it so much, we'd have never needed VAR in the first place.

Back to the rate of goals, it's inherent to the game and maybe unique to football, how games hinge on so few goals. Other sports have gradual point accumulation, or run accumulation, or distance, time, whatever. Not all hinging on one incident. So this means that we have to be sure that single incident is correct. It didn't matter so much back in the 1950's when matches with 4, or 5 or more goals were common. Maybe they should award 2 goals for an open play goal and 1 for a goal from a penalty or free kick... OMG that was the sort of thinking behind how rubgy & it's offshoots started in the first place!

 

[Gasman]

Yes. Stops the calls like today, where the decision would never have been changed either way.

Current system puts too much emphasis on the original decision.

Today’s would have been, “I’m considering awarding a penalty, can you give me any reasons why I shouldn’t?”

“Yes, we don’t feel there’s enough contact to award the penalty”

Which is like Rugby’s TMO. They even get the ref to watch it on the big screen in front of the crowd. Totally transparent.

 

[JohnB]

I prefer the cricket idea of ref decision stands and sides can appeal once per half. Otherwise there is simply too much time spent by VAR on every (potential) incident. The appeal is then reviewed by VAR (possibly with an umpire’s call).

May not have changed today’s decision but gets us back to reffing in ground.

Offside to move to semi-automated so only debate for VAR is whether they are in play or per Salah Cup goal played onside by defender.

 

[Spitfire]

The disallowed Burnley equalizer today is exactly why even the best possible version of VAR would still be completely hideous to football fans and the sport in general.

Imagine going all that way, seeing your team score a hugely important last minute goal, then waiting 4-5 minutes for it to be taken away for an offside call no fan in the world would have moaned about before of all this ****.

And even if it had ultimately been given, they've had that moment taken away really. A moment that is quite literally the best and main reason we go to games in the first place. All ruined by this. That's where this it's not VAR it's bla bla BS really annoys me. Because it is VAR that's the problem. Always was and always will be.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[GateWolf]

A challenge system fixes this.

You could tell by how long the VAR ref looked at it that he wasn't convinced it was a penalty, but his hands were tied by the "clear and obvious" error standard. These situations are a waste of time, as they must always defer to it. Change it so the VAR referee can decide if it was or wasn't a penalty with fresh eyes, and it probably isn't given. Also, shame on Schär for how he went down.

Correct, the question asked has to be “was that a penalty Yes or No”

Until we start asking the right question we can’t expect to get the right answer,

also I was surprised last night that despite taking ages for the VAR referee to make a decision that once again the on field referee didn’t go the pitch side screen, for me the Referee should go to the screen for every review and have a 2 way conversation with the VAR and whilst we are on this topic, there should be 1 VAR official per game not the group of 3 or 4 that currently seem to be involved

 

[Ned]

The disallowed Burnley equalizer today is exactly why even the best possible version of VAR would still be completely hideous to football fans and the sport in general.

Imagine going all that way, seeing your team score a hugely important last minute goal, then waiting 4-5 minutes for it to be taken away for an offside call no fan in the world would have moaned about before of all this ****.

And even if it had ultimately been given, they've had that moment taken away really. A moment that is quite literally the best and main reason we go to games in the first place. All ruined by this. That's where this it's not VAR it's bla bla BS really annoys me. Because it is VAR that's the problem. Always was and always will be.

Bang on. Can’t argue with any of this, I came in to pretty much say the same thing but not as good as this.

That’s the issue, same with the Burnley offside, if VAR doesn’t exist then fans accept the decisions a little more easily. We would be fuming at the penalty but would be accusing Schaar of conning the ref and diving instead of wondering why the fools on VAR looked at that over and over to look to give the penalty.

“clear and obvious” is all a big pile of corrupt poo. Why is that even a consideration? It should be right or wrong, surely? VAR took that length of time yesterday trying to decide whether or not that was a clear and obvious error on the field by the ref and not whether or not it was an actual penalty - the two are subtly different.

Just bin it and save the game before it drifts into apathy and passionless.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

The disallowed Burnley equalizer today is exactly why even the best possible version of VAR would still be completely hideous to football fans and the sport in general.

Imagine going all that way, seeing your team score a hugely important last minute goal, then waiting 4-5 minutes for it to be taken away for an offside call no fan in the world would have moaned about before of all this ****.

And even if it had ultimately been given, they've had that moment taken away really. A moment that is quite literally the best and main reason we go to games in the first place. All ruined by this. That's where this it's not VAR it's bla bla BS really annoys me. Because it is VAR that's the problem. Always was and always will be.

Well said. I totally agree. VAR has ruined the game.

I have no new thoughts on VAR. I remain convinced it should be scrapped.

 

[Ned]

I’ve always been against it and didn’t want it at all. Anybody with even the slightest knowledge of football could see exactly what sort of impact VAR was going to have on the game; it was glaringly obvious. It’s been a monstrosity since day one and hasn’t got any better since its introduction.

Genuinely the single worst thing to happen to football and the date of its introduction should be remembered as the day that football started to die.

 

[glorybox]

Var is the answer
Technology works in cricket and rugby

It’s the application that is wrong, the obsession with not overturning the referee and not making them feel bad. This is where it’s wrong

Refereeing is hard really hard and funnily enough with an instant view in the heat of the moment, it’s harder to get it right than using technology that can slow it down and see multiple angles.

This is the point
Technology allows for ‘better decisions’, forget the clear and obvious nonsense that’s a non issue. Use var to help the referees make better decisions and var shouldn’t advise the ref, it should simply tell the referee that based on better angles, slowed down and more time we’ve reached a different decision.

The ref then just implements that decision simple. It’s how they do it in cricket. Stop treating the referees with such referential nonsense .

Technology helps, technology can make better decisions so let the technology decide if it’s correct or not. Not whether it’s clear and obvious.

Because what is clear and obvious is that video analysis and a little time, makes better decisions than one bloke dressed in black

This statement should be sent out to every football fan, signed by each and forwarded to PMGOL and the premier league.

 

[epic]

**** it off now, it worked properly in our matches we'd be 6th tonight!

If there was no VAR we would still be in the same position as we are now.
Without VAR
Still no penalty for us at Old Trafford
Still a penalty against us at Luton
Still a penalty against us last at Molineux
The on field referee gave all those decisions

 

[xbomber]

Can **** Gillett back off to Australia.

To be fair, many people embraced the idea of him coming over based on microphoned up footage of him handling a match really well.

Sadly he's allowed himself to get dragged down to the UK standard which seems to get worse year on year.

Ridiculous to say this but we probably need to import refs with no previous involvement with current corrupted regime and less chance of bias for given teams.

What a joke. Having to suggest importation of foreign refs as we don't have enough Englishman with the competence and integrity... but here we are.

 

[TheConcourse]

Var is not the problem. It is the referees.

Agreed to an extent, but VAR as a concept is fundamentally wrong.

Referees in the stadium need to control the decisions and look at big decisions IMO.

Let’s be honest, if the ref didn’t give the penalty, there’s absolutely no chance the VAR overturns it.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

The more I think about the pen last night, the more I think that Taylor was told in his ear “give it and we’ll have a look”, because he doesn’t blow instantly there’s a fairly noticeable pause.

I then reckon VAR have thought **** that’s not clear at all, but we can’t over turn it now!

 

[Jd132]

Onana clothes lines Sasa- no penalty. Hwang pulls out of kick- penalty. The ball deflects from Gomes leg to his arm- penalty. Three big penalty shouts in 10 Wolves games this year- all called wrong- all called against Wolves.

And they have VAR! I hate the referees and I am glad Gary is calling them out!

 

[TheConcourse]

If there was no VAR we would still be in the same position as we are now.
Without VAR
Still no penalty for us at Old Trafford
Still a penalty against us at Luton
Still a penalty against us last at Molineux
The on field referee gave all those decisions

And this is what’s so frustrating. VAR isn’t creating a fairer game with less bad decisions. It’s being used to validate incorrect decisions and protect referees.

The other issue is that most decisions in football are subjective, so it can never work (bar offsides).

I don’t like it. At all.

And btw, in real time, I actually thought it was a penalty for Newcastle. It looked like Hwang had kicked straight through the back of him, so I don’t blame the ref. I blame the VAR.

Gillet wasn’t it? The worst the Wolves can get…

 

[Spitfire]

If there was no VAR we would still be in the same position as we are now.
Without VAR
Still no penalty for us at Old Trafford
Still a penalty against us at Luton
Still a penalty against us last at Molineux
The on field referee gave all those decisions

Yes but it’s easier to accept as a honest mistake in real time rather than the corrupt pile of **** that VAR is.

 

[Spitfire]

And this is what’s so frustrating. VAR isn’t creating a fairer game with less bad decisions. It’s being used to validate incorrect decisions and protect referees.

The other issue is that most decisions in football are subjective, so it can never work (bar offsides).

I don’t like it. At all.

And btw, in real time, I actually thought it was a penalty for Newcastle. It looked like Hwang had kicked straight through the back of him, so I don’t blame the ref. I blame the VAR.

Gillet wasn’t it? The worst the Wolves can get…

Agree, apart from on offsides, it’s just not accurate enough to be disallowing goals by millimetres.

 

[wolvesaywe]

VAR is absolute ****e but I can't agree with the corruption allegations. Every team is getting screwed by it at one point or another. Go on any other club forum and their fans will reel off a list of errors against them

It's simply sheer incompetence and a stain on the game

 

[tonto]

Well you can deduct points for financial irregularities but not for cheating, allow the ref to control the game. Then let competent officials revue contentious decisions, deduct points for obvious cheating etc

 

[Aussie_Wolf]

VAR itself is a clear and obvious error.

 

[Wolflaw]

Var is not the problem. It is the referees.

Any system is only as good as those who operate it.

 

[Oldvic161]

The clear and obvious error but needs binning, as per last night, the ref gives it, VAR checks and instead of saying, “take a look, Hwang stopped his kick and opponent slightly kicks the back of hwangs calf then twists and falls like he’s been caught on barbed wire”, he stayed down like he’d been shot, that is clear cheating and I thought the refs were meant to be clamping down on play acting?

Ex players can see it was a dive, ex players can see it wasn’t a pen, involve the ex players in the var decisions, plenty of them available. Or just scrap the whole thing apart from goal line technology, what sounds best “who’s the ******* in the black/green/mauve/pink” or “VAR is corrupt”?

 

[epic]

There are many many problems with VAR - The one that confuses me most is the "clear and obvious" error. What deems "clear and obvious" ? For example if a player punts a long ball to a forward and he runs on to it neck and neck with the opposing defender and then scores - it goes to VAR and they advise that the forward is offside by a his boot toe or his nose and the goal is disallowed. That is only "clear and obvious" to a TV monitor - not the assistant referee who couldn't possibly give it in real time with any certainty !!

 

[Bradstonian]

VAR itself is a clear and obvious error.

It's VARcicle in fact.

 

[old wittonian]

Correct, the question asked has to be “was that a penalty Yes or No”

Until we start asking the right question we can’t expect to get the right answer,

also I was surprised last night that despite taking ages for the VAR referee to make a decision that once again the on field referee didn’t go the pitch side screen, for me the Referee should go to the screen for every review and have a 2 way conversation with the VAR and whilst we are on this topic, there should be 1 VAR official per game not the group of 3 or 4 that currently seem to be involved

Fully agree with your last point. We don't want a decisions after committee meetings.

 

[Boss Hogg]

If there was no VAR we would still be in the same position as we are now.
Without VAR
Still no penalty for us at Old Trafford
Still a penalty against us at Luton
Still a penalty against us last at Molineux
The on field referee gave all those decisions

Like the good old days when we had Rennie a couple of games a season.

We still get robbed, but now we have to wait 5 minutes while they faff around and then rob us.

 

[Wolfman jack]

How about just ditch VAR already and get back to playing the game, and refereeing it, in real-time

Because without var, Newcastle get that penalty oh wait……….

 

[Wolfman jack]

Just have dedicated var officials who don’t ref. May get better consistency and no mates bias

 

[Plastic Shrapnel]

Onana clothes lines Sasa- no penalty. Hwang pulls out of kick- penalty. The ball deflects from Gomes leg to his arm- penalty. Three big penalty shouts in 10 Wolves games this year- all called wrong- all called against Wolves.

And they have VAR! I hate the referees and I am glad Gary is calling them out!

There was a penalty shout where the ball hit Gomes' arm and no penalty was given, rightfully so too. Was it the Villa game?

So four shouts and one called right.

 

[wulfie88]

 

[QB Wolf]

I'm actually a fan of the concept of VAR, referees in the heat of the moment make mistakes and why not use technology to ensure when goals are scored, or key decisions made that these are correct.

However the implementation of it is a joke, look at yesterday, in real time it looked like Hwang had won the ball, ref from his angle thinks it's a foul, fair enough, without VAR it's a penalty and a mistake that I'd moan about. However we have VAR to check and show there's no way it's a penalty, then what happens they get it spectacularly wrong.

They just haven't got good enough people in the VAR box, we see it time after time, the evidence after the Liverpool Spurs game was just damning.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Just have dedicated var officials who don’t ref. May get better consistency and no mates bias

PGMOL tried that but used Dean and Mason.....

 

[Bradstonian]

Just have dedicated var officials who don’t ref. May get better consistency and no mates bias

Or ex-players who have no allegiance to either side in the games they "officiate on", but do have an understanding of the game from a player's perspective. Of course they'd have to understand the rules too, so maybe a ref there too to advise.

 

[Contrarian]

If there was no VAR we would still be in the same position as we are now.
Without VAR
Still no penalty for us at Old Trafford
Still a penalty against us at Luton
Still a penalty against us last at Molineux
The on field referee gave all those decisions

Which is a strong argument against VAR? It's expensive, time wasting and achieves nothing. The cost/benefit ratio isn't worth the effort.

Another big negative is that it can't be implemented other than at the highest levels. It used to be that the rules had to be the same from World Cup final down to sunday league. Yet many recent changes have been made to fit the rules around VAR. If it has to exist, I'd have it only for tournaments where incorrect decisions mean a team waits 4 years for their next chance. In a 38 match season, it's not worth the trouble

 

[Contrarian]

I'm actually a fan of the concept of VAR, referees in the heat of the moment make mistakes and why not use technology to ensure when goals are scored, or key decisions made that these are correct.

However the implementation of it is a joke, look at yesterday, in real time it looked like Hwang had won the ball, ref from his angle thinks it's a foul, fair enough, without VAR it's a penalty and a mistake that I'd moan about. However we have VAR to check and show there's no way it's a penalty, then what happens they get it spectacularly wrong.

They just haven't got good enough people in the VAR box, we see it time after time, the evidence after the Liverpool Spurs game was just damning.

I'm generally dubious of the principle of "the theory is correct, it's just human failings that prevent it working". It just reminds me of impossible dietary and exercise regimes that promise you'll live forever, then blame you for not being able to live on 2 glasses of water and a 50 mile run every day! The easier something is to do, the more likely it will get done properly. VAR is an awkward fit for football.

Every aspect of the system is operated by humans, so it has to be workable by humans. VAR has been introduced largely because "it works in other sports". Which I think means cricket and rugby. Cricket is totally inappropriate comparison with football. And Rugby is also more stop-start...and I don't follow rugby, but I know people who do and they complain about the VAR in it anyway.

It needs to start with understanding the nature of football. And I don't think that has been done. It's just been copied from other sports. Football has always been intended to be a fast moving, free flowing game. The whole point that differentiates it , is that it isn't a minute of hanging around, followed by a few seconds of action (eg american football/cricket) and without that, where does VAR fit in?

In practice we've seen that there are very few incorrect decisions actually rectified by VAR. All this fuss is for nothing. Get rid of it and work on getting better quality referees. It would be a better solution to have 4 assistant refs, one in each quarter of the line.

 

[QB Wolf]

I'm generally dubious of the principle of "the theory is correct, it's just human failings that prevent it working". It just reminds me of impossible dietary and exercise regimes that promise you'll live forever, then blame you for not being able to live on 2 glasses of water and a 50 mile run every day! The easier something is to do, the more likely it will get done properly. VAR is an awkward fit for football.

Every aspect of the system is operated by humans, so it has to be workable by humans. VAR has been introduced largely because "it works in other sports". Which I think means cricket and rugby. Cricket is totally inappropriate comparison with football. And Rugby is also more stop-start...and I don't follow rugby, but I know people who do and they complain about the VAR in it anyway.

It needs to start with understanding the nature of football. And I don't think that has been done. It's just been copied from other sports. Football has always been intended to be a fast moving, free flowing game. The whole point that differentiates it , is that it isn't a minute of hanging around, followed by a few seconds of action (eg american football/cricket) and without that, where does VAR fit in?

In practice we've seen that there are very few incorrect decisions actually rectified by VAR. All this fuss is for nothing. Get rid of it and work on getting better quality referees. It would be a better solution to have 4 assistant refs, one in each quarter of the line.

In the cricket, for an LBW for example, they follow a very clear process, there's no ambiguity, contrast that with offside decisions in fooball which seems to be a free for all.

Maybe things are a little less black and white in football, would the ball have hit the stumps is a lot less subjective, than was there enough contact for it to be a penalty. However if the process for penalties, says check to see if the defender touches the ball before making contact with the attacker (or something similar), that pen isn't given, but they don't appear to follow process, for a multi multi billion pound industry it's so amateurish!! Maybe its just not mature enough yet.

 

[Tarcisio Mifsud]

Wolves have been robbed of 5 points in the first 10 matches of this season. There is no excuses, VAR is totally against Wolves. When VAR is checking a decision that goes against Wolves they take ages to decide, but they always decide against Wolves. When they are checking a decision which may go in Wolves favour the decisions arrive immediately, no action required. There is a huge conspiracy against Wolves, yesterday was another clear decision.

 

[WeAreTheWolvesII]

I don't understand the logic of moaning about VAR after last night.

Fair enough people who don't want it anyway, but last night you literally had your VAR-less game (because they didn't get involved) and the net result was Wolves were cheated.

The issue is entirely that cheating Aussie in the VAR room and Anthony Taylor.