Nathan Fraser

[SteveBullsKnee]

Jota and Neves were already proven quantities with games under their belt.

Did we progress them? Did we (in your words) “do a miserable job” on them?

Speak to anyone involved in professional youth football and see what they think of a) our academy and b) how we progress players. They’ll not agree with one single word with what you’ve said.

 

[welshy]

Good ol Steve Morgan got the conveyor started for our youth product...

 

[WickedWolfie]

Good ol Steve Morgan got the conveyor started for our youth product...

To be fair Graham Taylor really kicked things on and then as you say the much maligned Morgan/Moxey duo heavily invested in that area.

 

[CelebrityWolf]

Did we progress them? Did we (in your words) “do a miserable job” on them?

Speak to anyone involved in professional youth football and see what they think of a) our academy and b) how we progress players. They’ll not agree with one single word with what you’ve said.

Kind of irrelevant.

Players that have already forged a career are totally different to those that are starting out. The fact remains the best youngsters we have started with from scratch have all wanted to get out.

Not saying we don't do a decent job getting players on the ladder but the best ones we are not doing a good job with currently and the evidence is quite clear to see.

 

[VancouverWolf]

Jota and Neves were both 20 when they arrived and we developed them into the players they are today.

Gibbs white we made an incredible amount of money on a player who showed it about twice in a wolves shirt. £3 million on Ottasowie who’s played a handful of senior games. £5 million for Ryan Giles who can’t get a start in a woeful Luton team.

Toti Gomes was a boy when he came, what’s he worth now? Lembiska and Cundle playing weekly in the championship.

Plenty to knock wolves over but our recruitment of young players is well above average, both ones we buy and ones come through (the academy is now way more than self sustaining). We’re actually attractive to young foreign kids as they can see the progress in their careers in coming to us. It’s how we attract players like Joao Gomes and Bouba Traore despite them having other offers

Just because Fabio has been a failure (so far) he’s the exception not the rule

Great post.
some of the figures you quoted I‘d forgotten or never knew.……impressive.

Wolves are not total mess that some fans think……..

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Kind of irrelevant.

Players that have already forged a career are totally different to those that are starting out. The fact remains the best youngsters we have started with from scratch have all wanted to get out.

Not saying we don't do a decent job getting players on the ladder but the best ones we are not doing a good job with currently and the evidence is quite clear to see.

How is it irrelevant to say that we’ve progressed young inexperienced players careers significantly (whilst also making vast returns on the likes of Neves and Jota). Both Neves and Jota left as much better players than they came. Did we do a “miserable job” on them? If we do such a “miserable job” why are we seen as a good club to go to for these players in their fledgling careers?

If you’re talking about youth players (14-18) how have we done a “miserable job”. You could hold up MGW as a player who we’ve helped become on the cusp of international recognition despite him never really fitting in. His fee alone is enough to fund the academy for at least 6 years. Him and Giles we’ve both produced premier league players, got good money for and neither of them would get in our starting XI.

Youth football is relentless, how many clubs produce anything at all now. Under Fosun it’s progressed massively but it’s not an overnight job. We’ve built a structure and more importantly built a BIG reputation with recruitment. Players in the 14-16 catergory regularly pick us over bigger clubs and clubs with better youth reputation as they see the pathway. I know a local independent scout and I also know a very respected agent who specialises in signing youth players to his agency (most agencies aren’t interested at that age as there’s no money in it until they move). 10 years ago of the local clubs we’d have been 4th choice behind Villa, Albion, blues to drop a young player in, now the first club either speak to his wolves.

Loads to knock wolves over at present but you’ve got this badly badly wrong. You’re offering a personal opinion, go speak to people who work in it as to what our phased development is like.

 

[wolfslair]

How is it irrelevant to say that we’ve progressed young inexperienced players careers significantly (whilst also making vast returns on the likes of Neves and Jota). Both Neves and Jota left as much better players than they came. Did we do a “miserable job” on them? If we do such a “miserable job” why are we seen as a good club to go to for these players in their fledgling careers?

If you’re talking about youth players (14-18) how have we done a “miserable job”. You could hold up MGW as a player who we’ve helped become on the cusp of international recognition despite him never really fitting in. His fee alone is enough to fund the academy for at least 6 years. Him and Giles we’ve both produced premier league players, got good money for and neither of them would get in our starting XI.

Youth football is relentless, how many clubs produce anything at all now. Under Fosun it’s progressed massively but it’s not an overnight job. We’ve built a structure and more importantly built a BIG reputation with recruitment. Players in the 14-16 catergory regularly pick us over bigger clubs and clubs with better youth reputation as they see the pathway. I know a local independent scout and I also know a very respected agent who specialises in signing youth players to his agency (most agencies aren’t interested at that age as there’s no money in it until they move). 10 years ago of the local clubs we’d have been 4th choice behind Villa, Albion, blues to drop a young player in, now the first club either speak to his wolves.

Loads to knock wolves over at present but you’ve got this badly badly wrong. You’re offering a personal opinion, go speak to people who work in it as to what our phased development is like.

Couldn’t agree more! All I hear is great things about the academy set up we have and people need to be mindful that academy football is also targeted to be revenue generating from sales of those who want get a sniff at the parent club.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Couldn’t agree more! All I hear is great things about the academy set up we have and people need to be mindful that academy football is also targeted to be revenue generating from sales of those who want get a sniff at the parent club.

Unfortunately some fans expect some kind of united class of 92 and that was a one off occurrence. Even the very big clubs who have significant more funds to throw at youth football are happy if one player becomes a full time regular every 5 years.

Apart from the glaringly obvious failure (so far) in Fabio, our recruitment of players 22 and under in the Fosun era has been nothing short of spectacular really. Collectively how much are Bueno, Toti, Joao, Boubacar, Ait-Nouri, Neto worth compared to what we paid. Then the next “set” down the likes of Hubner, Lonwijk, Pond, Cundle, Hodge will all turn big profits that will sustain the academy.

The aim within the club (this was told to me by someone high up the food chain in development at wolves) is to adopt the Liverpool model. Gain a reputation for developing good young players, maybe one makes it every few years but the rest will be sold for over inflated fees as they’ve come from a club known for producing good youth players.

 

[wolfslair]

Unfortunately some fans expect some kind of united class of 92 and that was a one off occurrence. Even the very big clubs who have significant more funds to throw at youth football are happy if one player becomes a full time regular every 5 years.

Apart from the glaringly obvious failure (so far) in Fabio, our recruitment of players 22 and under in the Fosun era has been nothing short of spectacular really. Collectively how much are Bueno, Toti, Joao, Boubacar, Ait-Nouri, Neto worth compared to what we paid. Then the next “set” down the likes of Hubner, Lonwijk, Pond, Cundle, Hodge will all turn big profits that will sustain the academy.

The aim within the club (this was told to me by someone high up the food chain in development at wolves) is to adopt the Liverpool model. Gain a reputation for developing good young players, maybe one makes it every few years but the rest will be sold for over inflated fees as they’ve come from a club known for producing good youth players.

The class of 92 was as you said the anomaly and not the norm in reality.

Manchester City’s academy “revenue” targets are so aggressive! It is a key part of their revenue and look at what they will achieve with Palmer, McAtee, Doyle and Trafford. That is free money for them and they will rinse and repeat with a great local talent pool.

That is the model sellers did get right in replicating with the support of fosun in that he built a great foundation here to his credit before his promotion that was really his job too far…..

Look at how many top clubs come snooping to poach our talent.

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

Was there last night and just looked again at the highlights, whilst the lad is still young and has developing to do, what impressed me most last night was his intelligence.

He was aware that he was going to be a target man up front and presented himself well and his lay offs to the supporting strikers were reasonably decent, but if you watch how he staggers and then times his runs for his goal and the chance shortly afterwards, he showed that you don't need to be running at full pelt behind the defence to find the space you need to create your chances. That is the mark of a good striker.

He seems to link well with Cunha and being able to offer a pass when Cunha is drawing defenders to him must be a godsend to Matteus.

I know some people are suggesting a loan but a few more substitute appearances between now and the end of the season, building relationships with Cunha, Neto, Sarabia and Hwang, might be more beneficial in the long term than toiling away in League One.

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Was there last night and just looked again at the highlights, whilst the lad is still young and has developing to do, what impressed me most last night was his intelligence.

He was aware that he was going to be a target man up front and presented himself well and his lay offs to the supporting strikers were reasonably decent, but if you watch how he staggers and then times his runs for his goal and the chance shortly afterwards, he showed that you don't need to be running at full pelt behind the defence to find the space you need to create your chances. That is the mark of a good striker.

He seems to link well with Cunha and being able to offer a pass when Cunha is drawing defenders to him must be a godsend to Matteus.

I know some people are suggesting a loan but a few more substitute appearances between now and the end of the season, building relationships with Cunha, Neto, Sarabia and Hwang, might be more beneficial in the long term than toiling away in League One.

I like him very good goal

 

[sc91]

I'll note one thing from the highlights, it seems like the senior players trusted him. I can see him staying as an option with that in mind.

 

[Wignall 3-0]

Our fringe players are really stepping up, shows the good spirit in the camp and the influence of GON and his coaching team. Do not loan Fraser out. Just sign an experienced striker on loan until the end of the season. Give Fraser time off the bench he may not need loan time. He looks a good prospect.

 

[SuperGran]

I'll note one thing from the highlights, it seems like the senior players trusted him. I can see him staying as an option with that in mind.

Listening to GoN he’s moulding him into the no 9 he wants.
Would be good for us to have another option so theres not too much pressure on him. With us more or less safe be good to see him get minutes

 

[JOSWolf]

I hope he stays to be honest. He will learn a lot being around this group and we need him as it stands.

 

[Norman Bell]

I hope he stays to be honest. He will learn a lot being around this group and we need him as it stands.

I remember you called it a while ago to keep an eye out for Nathan Fraser !

#JosWolfadamus

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

The next Harry Kane or Robbie Keane I can’t decide. Time to play the kid more instead of wasting money. Hopefully G.O realises this lad has the ability.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

The next Harry Kane or Robbie Keane I can’t decide. Time to play the kid more instead of wasting money. Hopefully G.O realises this lad has the ability.

Hes being given a chance at 9 with bellegarde (false 9) untill we get someone in to start at 9.

If that is we get one,

Hwang and him will vy for it if we dont replace sasa/fabio

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Hes being given a chance at 9 with bellegarde (false 9) untill we get someone in to start at 9.

If that is we get one,

Hwang and him will vy for it if we dont replace sasa/fabio

Shame we don’t wanna give our own a proper chance off the bench you won’t get top class players that eager to make an impact. Fraser is an intelligent player. Drops deep makes runs scores goals dno why we would want to waste money when summer is what 4 months until end of the season 6 months until the summer window it’s not a big issue

 

[Kebab Warrior]

Took his goal really well. Only seen highlights but very in favour of giving our own a chance.

 

[AndyY]

Hes being given a chance at 9 with bellegarde (false 9) untill we get someone in to start at 9.

If that is we get one,

Hwang and him will vy for it if we dont replace sasa/fabio

I don’t see Bellegarde as a “false 9” at all, and I don’t think he played well at all last night in that role. I would rather give the job to Doherty!
Fraser did well with his goal, and the strike a short while later that force a good save from their keeper; looks a footballer and has a touch of Raul about him!

 

[Fenrir_]

Took his goal really well, should have had a second after brilliant work by Cunha, but right now he's miles off it physically. Understandable as he's still only 18 but he's lacking that 'man strength' for now. I'd be looking to loan him out

 

[Minimalist]

6 months playing regularly at somewhere like Shrewsbury would probably be the best thing for his development.

 

[The Wolf In The North]

This is a rare season where we're not in danger, have 18 league games to go, have very little wriggle room financially, and need another forward option. It couldn't have fallen any more perfectly to blood a young, hungry player like Fraser with crucial minutes in the first team.

Whatever the advantages of a loan, I'll be disappointed if we send him out instead of giving him occasional but regular opportunities here among players he'll be looking to forge a bond and playing style with over the next couple of years. No one's expecting miracles, but this right here is supposed to be what Fosun's plan is about.

 

[WW1963]

This is a rare season where we're not in danger, have 18 league games to go, have very little wriggle room financially, and need another forward option. It couldn't have fallen any more perfectly to blood a young, hungry player like Fraser with crucial minutes in the first team.

Whatever the advantages of a loan, I'll be disappointed if we send him out instead of giving him occasional but regular opportunities here among players he'll be looking to forge a bond and playing style with over the next couple of years. No one's expecting miracles, but this right here is supposed to be what Fosun's plan is about.

I hope he gets minutes against West Brom - can see him scoring.

 

[Muscat]

This is a rare season where we're not in danger, have 18 league games to go, have very little wriggle room financially, and need another forward option. It couldn't have fallen any more perfectly to blood a young, hungry player like Fraser with crucial minutes in the first team.

Whatever the advantages of a loan, I'll be disappointed if we send him out instead of giving him occasional but regular opportunities here among players he'll be looking to forge a bond and playing style with over the next couple of years. No one's expecting miracles, but this right here is supposed to be what Fosun's plan is about.

Or you destroy his confidence. What he needs now is to be playing regularly from the start.

 

[sc91]

Or you destroy his confidence. What he needs now is to be playing regularly from the start.

How? Surely staying in a place where he is comfortable is best?

 

[Oldskooldayz]

Considering we're in a position where we won't go down and are watching the pennies I'd be more than happy to have the lad train and travel with the 1st team for the rest of the season.

If we sign a striker then having him on the bench more often than not and some minutes here and there to gauge exactly where he's at should be how he's handled the next few months. Obviously going out on loan will happen but I'm not sure it's the right option right now, not many 18 year olds regularly start upfront for any side in the top 2 divisions so staying here working with our squad could be the best option until the summer

 

[JohnB]

Delighted - great goal.

For me this is simple and depends on GON. If he is going to be on the bench ala Silva and Sasa and get zero mins (GON prefers Hwang, Sarabia, Bellegarde, Neto, Cunha plus new loan 9) then he has to be loaned out.

If he will play him for 15-20 mins and when level, winning and losing (not just last 5 mins throw him up there when losing) then keep him and use him in U23 games to keep sharp/fit.

 

[Brockmoorwolf]

Took his goal really well, should have had a second after brilliant work by Cunha, but right now he's miles off it physically. Understandable as he's still only 18 but he's lacking that 'man strength' for now. I'd be looking to loan him out

The kid from brighton never went out on loan and that worked out alright.

 

[Fenrir_]

The kid from brighton never went out on loan and that worked out alright.

If you're on about Evan Ferguson, that kid is a unit and a complete freak of nature, someone who's developed physically way faster than the majority of people do and made his senior debut at 14. Fraser doesn't have the physical attributes to cope in the PL right now. Every time he managed to get ahead of a defender last night he didn't have the strength to hold on to it, the defender could basically just muscle him out. That will happen every week if he plays in the PL now

They are not the same situation

 

[Bradstonian]

His confidence will be high after his goals in the two cup games he’s played. I’d definitely keep him in the squad and bring him in as a sub at the very least. Keep him involved.

 

[oldgoldheart]

Took his goal really well, should have had a second after brilliant work by Cunha, but right now he's miles off it physically. Understandable as he's still only 18 but he's lacking that 'man strength' for now. I'd be looking to loan him out

The strength will come. Miley at newcastle is coping and so did robbie keane. If he is good enough he is old enough

 

[Fenrir_]

The strength will come. Miley at newcastle is coping and so did robbie keane. If he is good enough he is old enough

Robbie Keane had two years in the second tier nearly 30 years ago and went into a PL that still had a big drinking culture, he's completely irrelevant to this conversation. Lewis Miley is 6'2" and being a midfielder doesn't need the athleticism that a centre forward does

Comparing them because of age is just lazy. If he's good enough he's old enough is an outdated cliché. First and foremost now to succeed in the PL you've got to be fast enough and strong enough, and Fraser isn't yet

 

[oldgoldheart]

Robbie Keane had two years in the second tier nearly 30 years ago and went into a PL that still had a big drinking culture, he's completely irrelevant to this conversation. Lewis Miley is 6'2" and being a midfielder doesn't need the athleticism that a centre forward does

Comparing them because of age is just lazy. If he's good enough he's old enough is an outdated cliché. First and foremost now to succeed in the PL you've got to be fast enough and strong enough, and Fraser isn't yet

What nonsense. It was far more physical and the pitches were not as good. Keane was also younger. And do you really believe playing midfield for Newcastle is somehow easier.? I dont know whether he is good enough but if he is his age doesnt matter

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Took his goal really well, should have had a second after brilliant work by Cunha, but right now he's miles off it physically. Understandable as he's still only 18 but he's lacking that 'man strength' for now. I'd be looking to loan him out

Sorry, but he's 6ft 2 and 85kg. I'm not expecting any more man strength to come from him. Everyone develops differently. He looks strong enough and sharp enough to me. Keep him here and see if he breaks through.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Or you destroy his confidence. What he needs now is to be playing regularly from the start.

That’s where I am with it. In a fairytale scenario he comes into the premier league and gets a few goals but the flip side (more realistic side). Is he gets game time with us, misses a few important sitters and he hears the growns from the Molineux faithful and it gets into his head.

Hes used to playing in front of a few hundred not the cauldron of the premier league for a team who still have realistic hopes of Europe. Send him to League one, get used to mens football and scoring goals and he’ll benefit immensely

 

[S G Wolves]

Flipin eck!! Only 18..

Thought he was 20. A really exciting prospect. Good physically already.

 

[Oldskooldayz]

What nonsense. It was far more physical and the pitches were not as good. Keane was also younger. And do you really believe playing midfield for Newcastle is somehow easier.? I dont know whether he is good enough but if he is his age doesnt matter

It's not nonsense, the level of fitness and strength of the modern day footballer is way above what is was then. Physicality is also a moot point with the style of the reffing now. 1 old style let them know you're there challenge is an instant red now so we don't see them anymore. It's incredibly rare for teenage centre forwards to break through at premier league level now because of the standard and also the climate of officiating.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

It's not nonsense, the level of fitness and strength of the modern day footballer is way above what is was then. Physicality is also a moot point with the style of the reffing now. 1 old style let them know you're there challenge is an instant red now so we don't see them anymore. It's incredibly rare for teenage centre forwards to break through at premier league level now because of the standard and also the climate of officiating.

Exactly my point. He needs time to learn and grow into a player and being chucked into the first team could be really damaging for him. For all the talk of giving him a chance now, a few poor performances and people would be at him