Moutinho

[wolvesjoe]

I have been watching Wolves since 1954. I know a class player when I see one. Ever heard of Peter Broadbent, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt, Peter Knowles, Ron Flowers, Willie Carr, John Richards, Derek Dougan, Norman Deeley, Jimmy Mullen, Roy Swinbourne, just to name a few who made a far, far greater contribution to Wolverhampton Wanderers football club than Moutinho? But all of these were playing for Wolves before Sky invented football in 1992, which is when you probably started watching. Moutinho had one good season with us. Since then he's been pretty gash, but he is a big Portuguese mate of Nuno's which is why he continues to get picked. Arguably our greatest ever player? My ****.

Particularly philistine remarks.

 

[Black Coffee]

I love the guy but especially the last few months with Moutinho the mind is willing but the body isn't. It was going to happen at some point but I don't think anyone one at the club expected it to happen so quickly (which explains the new contract) .

I don't think replacing him was a priority TBH experience and ball retention aside his contribution to goals is nonexistent. We have enough cover in the midfield two or three

 

[JOSWolf]

I love the guy but especially the last few months with Moutinho the mind is willing but the body isn't. It was going to happen at some point but I don't think anyone one at the club expected it to happen so quickly (which explains the new contract) .

I don't think replacing him was a priority TBH experience and ball retention aside his contribution to goals is nonexistent. We have enough cover in the midfield two or three

We certainly dont have enough cover or decent competition in central midfield. This is one of the main reasons Moutinho is now playing nearly every game. His competition are kids or players that arent good enough.

 

[Mugwump]

Nobody saw Moutinho's decline coming the way it has, and anyone who says the did is a liar imo. He was fine last year. I personally thought he might have to play less than he has to keep his quality up in games, but i didnt think he would have been as consistently average.

 

[Black Coffee]

We certainly dont have enough cover or decent competition in central midfield. This is one of the main reasons Moutinho is now playing nearly every game. His competition are kids or players that arent good enough.

We do Dendoncker and Saiss can do what Moutinho does. Moutinho's role is pretty easy to replace ATM he doesn't carry the ball or offer anything going forward. Playing Saiss or Dendoncker with Neves then putting Podence in the hole will solve the problem this season.

Neves is the Moutinho replacement long term that was obvious from the time would play them together. Replacing Moutinho with a similar type player to play with Neves is not going to help us evolve.

In terms of long term we will see an answer this summer as no one seen Moutinho's decline this season not even Nostradamus could of seen it coming so soon

 

[SakosRightFoot]

Nobody saw Moutinho's decline coming the way it has, and anyone who says the did is a liar imo. He was fine last year. I personally thought he might have to play less than he has to keep his quality up in games, but i didnt think he would have been as consistently average.

I think he didn’t look right from the restart really, like the extra long season had really taken its toll on him.

I think in a way he’s the biggest casualty of the desire to change the way we play. He’s perfectly fine in a defensive counter attack style against teams where we don’t have much of the ball and need his calmness, but when we need to move the ball quicker and have midfielders who move up the pitch quicker he just can’t do it anymore and that shouldn’t be a slight on him, it’s just he’s 34, in football terms having played about 800+ games he’s probably more like 38.

Play him in the games against the big sides especially away, but he’s a sub otherwise for me

 

[JOSWolf]

We do Dendoncker and Saiss can do what Moutinho does. Moutinho's role is pretty easy to replace ATM he doesn't carry the ball or offer anything going forward. Playing Saiss or Dendoncker with Neves then putting Podence in the hole will solve the problem this season.

Neves is the Moutinho replacement long term that was obvious from the time would play them together. Replacing Moutinho with a similar type player to play with Neves is not going to help us evolve.

In terms of long term we will see an answer this summer as no one seen Moutinho's decline this season not even Nostradamus could of seen it coming so soon

I could see after lockdown last season that Moutinho was on the decline. The club havent signed a first team ready central midfield player since the summer we got promoted and that is a major error in my opinion. Saiss is never used as a central midfield player anymore either. Options in central midfield are too limited and have been for a while now in my opinion. The last two summer transfer windows just havent been good enough.

 

[Mugwump]

I think he didn’t look right from the restart really, like the extra long season had really taken its toll on him.

I think in a way he’s the biggest casualty of the desire to change the way we play. He’s perfectly fine in a defensive counter attack style against teams where we don’t have much of the ball and need his calmness, but when we need to move the ball quicker and have midfielders who move up the pitch quicker he just can’t do it anymore and that shouldn’t be a slight on him, it’s just he’s 34, in football terms having played about 800+ games he’s probably more like 38.

Play him in the games against the big sides especially away, but he’s a sub otherwise for me

I think he still played better after the restart than he is now, but his dips in form were starting to show. Like you say, he is 34 now and we have to use him sparingly.

Still stand by what i said though, nobody saw this from him coming to the extent is has.

 

[Mugwump]

I could see after lockdown last season that Moutinho was on the decline. The club havent signed a first team ready central midfield player since the summer we got promoted and that is a major error in my opinion. Saiss is never used as a central midfield player anymore either. Options in central midfield are too limited and have been for a while now in my opinion. The last two summer transfer windows just havent been good enough.

There is no way you picked him to have regressed this much though.

 

[JOSWolf]

There is no way you picked him to have regressed this much though.

Probably not but it was obvious to me and many others on here we needed another quality option to be signed last summer in the central midfield area. Yet again it wasnt.

 

[Black Coffee]

I could see after lockdown last season that Moutinho was on the decline. The club havent signed a first team ready central midfield player since the summer we got promoted and that is a major error in my opinion. Saiss is never used as a central midfield player anymore either. Options in central midfield are too limited and have been for a while now in my opinion. The last two summer transfer windows just havent been good enough.

Behave no one did that's why the club gave him a new contract.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I have been watching Wolves since 1954. I know a class player when I see one. Ever heard of Peter Broadbent, Mike Bailey, Kenny Hibbitt, Peter Knowles, Ron Flowers, Willie Carr, John Richards, Derek Dougan, Norman Deeley, Jimmy Mullen, Roy Swinbourne, just to name a few who made a far, far greater contribution to Wolverhampton Wanderers football club than Moutinho? But all of these were playing for Wolves before Sky invented football in 1992, which is when you probably started watching. Moutinho had one good season with us. Since then he's been pretty gash, but he is a big Portuguese mate of Nuno's which is why he continues to get picked. Arguably our greatest ever player? My ****.

Mouts is a great player, but not for long enough here. Similar to Paul Ince in that regard.
Maybe not a better player than Moutinho, but I would kill for a vintage Alex Rae alongside Neves atm

 

[JOSWolf]

Behave no one did that's why the club gave him a new contract.

I could see the signs after we returned from lockdown last season. No need to tell me to behave pal. He hasnt been the same player since we returned last season and has declined even more this season.

 

[MasWolf]

Mouts is a great player, but not for long enough here. Similar to Paul Ince in that regard.
Maybe not a better player than Moutinho, but I would kill for a vintage Alex Rae alongside Neves atm

One of very few highlights during our first PL season. He would be excellent in this team.

 

[SakosRightFoot]

I think he still played better after the restart than he is now, but his dips in form were starting to show. Like you say, he is 34 now and we have to use him sparingly.

Still stand by what i said though, nobody saw this from him coming to the extent is has.

No I don’t think any of us did, perhaps because none of us wanted to. Like we agree his form was dipping from the summer, a lot of that I put down to the length of the season, probably worth noting he’d started playing more for Portugal when I seem to remember he wasn’t used as much the previous season.

This feels like the saddest one really, we all desperately want the first season Moutinho back

 

[Black Coffee]

I could see the signs after we returned from lockdown last season. No need to tell me to behave pal. He hasnt been the same player since we returned last season and has declined even more this season.

Nope, He's had a some off games post lockdown but also some stellar ones like the rest of the team post lockdown. It's only since November he's form has nosedived and how players have jogged past him.

As just like In Boxing you can become old over night this is what has happened here.

 

[WickedWolfie]

Prior to the first lockdown he was looking good. That unexpected break just seemed to do something to him. Almost like his body found it difficult to get back up for it when it restarted.

I'm finding the criticism of Dendoncker a bit strange though. Granted he's missed a few goal scoring opportunities but the lad covers some ground and is a pretty decent all-rounder.

Re your first para l've said exactly the same.

 

[goldfish]

I'm sure there were threads like this on the original Molineux Mix...

...about Simon Osborn.

 

[WickedWolfie]

I could see the signs after we returned from lockdown last season. No need to tell me to behave pal. He hasnt been the same player since we returned last season and has declined even more this season.

Sadly true about the decline.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Moutinho shouldnt be in the squad for chorley give him 9 days before chelsea, give vitinha a chance to show why he is to replace moutinho.

I can think of alot of other players who can come into this squad in the next window an do well

 

[Halesowen wwfc]

Seeing a lot of people saying moutinho has declined since lock down. I think that argument could be aimed at quite a number of our players in fairness. Mouts and neves are too similar. My guess is vitinha was brought in to replace mouts but nuno doesnt seem to trust him. Vitinha seems excellent in the small cameos at end of games, but when he starts seeks completely ineffective.

I think we should look to put donk back on the right side of defence, boly on the left in a back 3. This from memory is when we were at our best. Hoever on the right side, and bring otasowie in the middle alobgside neves. This should give us a much stronger spine to the team.

There is still a plave for mouts to come on the last 25 mins if we need to control the game more, but we have in the past excelled as a counter attacking team. Trying to control the ball all the time and have the greater possession eliminates what we are great at, the skill and pace in attack on the break.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Particularly philistine remarks.

Elaborate. 'Philistine'?

 

[Fifty Niner]

Seeing a lot of people saying moutinho has declined since lock down. I think that argument could be aimed at quite a number of our players in fairness. Mouts and neves are too similar. My guess is vitinha was brought in to replace mouts but nuno doesnt seem to trust him. Vitinha seems excellent in the small cameos at end of games, but when he starts seeks completely ineffective.

I think we should look to put donk back on the right side of defence, boly on the left in a back 3. This from memory is when we were at our best. Hoever on the right side, and bring otasowie in the middle alobgside neves. This should give us a much stronger spine to the team.

There is still a plave for mouts to come on the last 25 mins if we need to control the game more, but we have in the past excelled as a counter attacking team. Trying to control the ball all the time and have the greater possession eliminates what we are great at, the skill and pace in attack on the break.

But on the other hand, if players don't start enough games they don't get the stamina nor longevity required to see a 90 minute + game all the way through. Vitinha is our only external midfield addition, on loan. If we are not hamstrung by having an obligation to buy based on so many appearances/minutes then I think he should be getting starts or at least having more substantial sub appearances.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

I also go back to the 50s and have seen them play for us.

But you and SFW seem to me to be making slightly different points. You stress the contributions they made, whereas SFW stresses the footballing quality of the individual player.

In the latter case, Mouts certainly - in my opinion - matches most on your list. I think he's a better midfielder than Willy Carr, for instance, though you may disagree. He has shown us - again in my opinion - why he's his country's second most capped player, even though he's not fit to lace Broadbent's boots - yet again in my opinion!

In terms of 'contribution to Wolves' , I fully agree with you. In fairness, Moutinho leaves it all on the pitch for us, and clearly hates it when we lose, but I doubt whether he will ever become a five star Wolves legend, given the fact he joined us at the age he did.

But we also have to acknowledge that times have changed. I don't expect Mouts travels to training on the bus like Billy Wright and many others did - and I'm guessing he's never "borrowed" a bus like Brian Law did (does that make HIM a legend?!).

As you know, BSK, your listed players - especially the earlier ones - gave everything on the pitch for sodall in terms of pay. For that they get my admiration, 100%. Mouts also gives everything on the pitch although he of course gets paid a fortune for it. But at least he does that for us even though when he signed fir us he no doubt could have retired and never kicked a ball in vengeance again.

I simply enjoy the memories of those who gave what they did at the Golden Palace whilst appreciating the full commitment that Moutinho has made here.

That's fair comment. I just take issue with the bald claim 'arguably the greatest...' for Moutinho from someone who is not in a position to make that claim, as he almost certainly saw very few, if any, of the players I listed (and I could have added a dozen more) actually play. Moutinho played well for us for a season, but, in particular since the first lockdown, in my opinion he has often been a passenger living on past glories. This season he has been slow and error prone. His Neil Collins like ****-up against Brighton cost us the game. So sorry, but the description of 'arguably the greatest' is a load of balls, and an affront to a lot of former Wolves true greats (and I really mean TRUE GREATS)

 

[Deleted member 4008]

Not really sure the debate about moutiniho he is 34 and on the way down . What is there to debate they should have signed some more players for this position , they didn't and now they see the results. No point signing ****ing kids as they won't be ready for 3 seasons and then all we do is sell them . Pull your finger out Jeff and Fosun. Or down we go and if we stay up any player with ambition Will be like see you later dick heads I am off as they are not pushing us forward and I want to play in Europe .

 

[Perton Wolf]

€5m for 2 good years out of him represents decent business on the whole.

Needs moving on at the end of the season though. Preferably to be replaced by somebody with some athleticism who can drive the ball forward. Our midfield is badly lacking in that respect.

 

[molineux man]

I've noticed he quite often seems to be 'lunging' in games now to receive a pass simply because his position isn't where it would have been a couple of years ago.

That said, an aged Moutinho is still better than a lot of other Premier league midfielders, his excellent passing will never leave him. The problem is trying to find a midfielder who offers what Moutinho does with the ball plus pace as well - there's so few midfielders of that calibre around.

 

[Matt]

I don't think he needs moving on, he just needs to become more of a squad player. His experience is invaluable for the squad.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

he needs to be playing 10 games a season giving more knowledge to neves vitinha etc, using his nouse to forward the midfielders for the club.

 

[hollo]

Here are moutinho's stats. He has no assists this season and has barely had a shot at goal.

João Moutinho Statistics | Premier League

View stats of Wolverhampton Wanderers Midfielder João Moutinho, including goals scored, assists and appearances, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

 

[Oldgold Wolfcub]

Not really sure the debate about moutiniho he is 34 and on the way down . What is there to debate they should have signed some more players for this position , they didn't and now they see the results. No point signing ****ing kids as they won't be ready for 3 seasons and then all we do is sell them . Pull your finger out Jeff and Fosun. Or down we go and if we stay up any player with ambition Will be like see you later dick heads I am off as they are not pushing us forward and I want to play in Europe .

16 years younger than when Stan Mattews last played.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

That's fair comment. I just take issue with the bald claim 'arguably the greatest...' for Moutinho from someone who is not in a position to make that claim, as he almost certainly saw very few, if any, of the players I listed (and I could have added a dozen more) actually play. Moutinho played well for us for a season, but, in particular since the first lockdown, in my opinion he has often been a passenger living on past glories. This season he has been slow and error prone. His Neil Collins like ****-up against Brighton cost us the game. So sorry, but the description of 'arguably the greatest' is a load of balls, and an affront to a lot of former Wolves true greats (and I really mean TRUE GREATS)

Are you comparing them as players in general or as players in a wolves shirt? Theres a big difference.

Either way its about opinions. Fella in my street who has been going since the 60's says Moutinho is the best player he has seen in a wolves shirt since Broadbent. Im only 41 so cant comment on that.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

'Arguable' only by people who have been supporting the club for about 5 minutes. I could name you twenty or thirty Wolves players better than Moutinho if we are comparing what they have contributed to Wolves.

30 better players in the top division?

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

Are you comparing them as players in general or as players in a wolves shirt? Theres a big difference.

Either way its about opinions. Fella in my street who has been going since the 60's says Moutinho is the best player he has seen in a wolves shirt since Broadbent. Im only 41 so cant comment on that.

My dad who would be the same age thinks Neves is better than Moutinho.
Whilst classy, I'm not convinced he has ever quite been our best player while he has been here. When people say "easily the best" it is a put down to Raul, to Neves, to Jonny, to Coads, to Jota, to Boly.

 

[goldeneyed]

Player/coach next season. Great signing. This should be his last season as a full squad member. Nuno should be blooding others NOW and let Moutinho come on in second halves to help the team....great player but at 35 later this year, as a central midfielder in the Premier League, you are not going to be able to provide the necessary energy on a weekly basis - no room for sentimentality in football. Eriksen would have been the ideal mature replacement imv....but wages impossible even assuming he would join.

 

[Kebab Warrior]

30 better players in the top division?

I’m 44 - he’s the best player I’ve ever seen in gold.
Has he declined yes, is he getting dribbled past too much yes.

I also think he’s suffering from playing in front of a crap back 4 without a highly mobile partner to do his running. Neves has been poor very often and either side of him he’s had very temperamental wing backs to say the least.
I also find the assists stat thing pointless, he’s there to keep possession and recycle to the wingbacks or wide forwards. How many assists has Patricio got? Stupid question.
He’s played two of the best passes I’ve seen our team do this season, v Sheff Utd v Neto and v Palace to Traore to name just two.

He’s been flogged to death last season and this, playing stupid amounts for his age but is criminally under rated on here by people who’s understanding of football is R button = Sprint and Square button = Shoot.

We literally don’t deserve him.

 

[Stoichkov]

€5m for 2 good years out of him represents decent business on the whole.

Needs moving on at the end of the season though. Preferably to be replaced by somebody with some athleticism who can drive the ball forward. Our midfield is badly lacking in that respect.

Needs moving on? Get him involved in the coaching staff! Huge experience, hates losing, respected by his peers

If we were a club that really did long term, we'd be nurturing him as a potential Nuno successor

 

[Big Saft Kid]

Are you comparing them as players in general or as players in a wolves shirt? Theres a big difference.

Either way its about opinions. Fella in my street who has been going since the 60's says Moutinho is the best player he has seen in a wolves shirt since Broadbent. Im only 41 so cant comment on that.

What he said was that Moutinho is 'arguably the finest player to ever play for us' -- so not just 'midfielder' but 'player', full stop... and 'ever' covers the whole history of the club. Utterly ludicrous. He says 'arguably' but presents no argument or evidence. FWIW, I don't think Moutinho is even the best midfielder (let alone player) at the club NOW -- IMO Neves is better, and I suspect the stats would back me up. Somebody has already produced the stats for this season: Moutinho has no goals and no assists. One other indisputable stat is that he gave away a ridiculous and totally unnecessary penalty at Brighton. That made a major contribution to the loss of 2 points. He has also got himself stupidly sent off, dangling a leg once too often. On the plus side, he undoubtedly had an excellent first season with the odd goal and plenty of creative play and excellent passing. Season two was less good, and for my money he has largely been a passenger this season. Should I really have to bother to compare this record with the likes of (say) Peter Broadbent, Ron Flowers and Mike Bailey, three towering Wolves midfield players ? In brief: Broadbent played 497 games for Wolves in 15 years, all in the top tier, scoring 145 goals. He was what used to be called an inside forward, so an attacking midfielder. Ron Flowers played 512 games for us over 17 years, 15 of them in the top tier, and scored 37 goals. He was what used to be called a half back, so a defensive midfielder in today's parlance. Mike Bailey, wth 436 appearances and 25 goals over 11 years, the vast majority in the top tier, played a similar role to Flowers. These are just three of the most outstanding Wolves midfielders I have had the privilege of watching play for our club in my time as a supporter. I am not going to bother with the stats of the many other players in other positions who also made a similarly huge contribution at the very top level, even though the claim is that Moutinho is better than all of these too -- any supporter who didn't see them play, like the poster who made this daft claim, can take the trouble to look them up. And there's one more -- a certain William Ambrose Wright: 541 appearnces for Wolves , all at the top level, plus over 100 caps for England. He played right half and then centre half. But apparently he wasn't as good as Moutinho either. I rest my case.

 

[JOSWolf]

Here are moutinho's stats. He has no assists this season and has barely had a shot at goal.

João Moutinho Statistics | Premier League

View stats of Wolverhampton Wanderers Midfielder João Moutinho, including goals scored, assists and appearances, on the official website of the Premier League.

www.premierleague.com

I am afraid that very much sums it up.

 

[JOSWolf]

Needs moving on? Get him involved in the coaching staff! Huge experience, hates losing, respected by his peers

If we were a club that really did long term, we'd be nurturing him as a potential Nuno successor

I agree with that. He should be on the coaching staff if he wants to be.