Mick Should still be here

[Dorset DeWolf]

I am getting so sick of reading that the current state we are in is Mick's fault, we should have got rid of him sooner, if we had got rid of him sooner then we would have survived.

I'm sure I will get pelters for this but it needs saying, have a look at the graph below, we got rid of Mick on game 25, look at our league positioning, before & since, there is no comparison!!!

Am I the only person on this whole forum that would welcome him back?? I know it will never happen as it would mean these 2 prize $$$$$s at the helm admitting they got it wrong, and that will not happen!

Has there ever been a better example of the grass isn't always greener than what has happened to our club since his departure, not only have we fell off a cliff as far as our league position goes, the team look fightless and spiritless and have slumped to pounding after pounding.

He kept us up twice before, why on earth would he not have done it again?

I'm sure people will moan & bitch about me posting this but these are black and white facts, not opinions to be manipulated.

People may ask why I have felt the need to go over this again but it purely comes down to the fact that I for one think the club as a whole would be in a better position with Mick back here than not


http://www.wolverhamptonwanderers-m...2011_2012/wolverhampton_wanderers/index.shtml

 

[liquidatorwolf]

So,...would you have sacked him earlier? Everyone can see it was the wrong decision to sack him when we did, you're just stating the obvious. Procrastination is the thief of time.

 

[SaleWolf]

Move on please for your own health.

His time was up and if we'd had a plan in place, a new manager would have kept us up, i'm sure of it.

Mccarthy is the root cause of us being relegated this season. They're his players and they're simply not good enough.

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

Given the upturn in form of teams like Wigan I think we'd have gone down anyway. We'd probably have more points, maybe have prolonged it for a game or two more, but ultimately we'd still have gone down IMO. The mess we're in is largely down to the way Mick built the team/had it play, for our long term future he needed to go anyway, just should have been a lot sooner to give someone else the chance to change things.

 

[Wolfman jack]

Given the upturn in form of teams like Wigan I think we'd have gone down anyway. We'd probably have more points, maybe have prolonged it for a game or two more, but ultimately we'd still have gone down IMO. The mess we're in is largely down to the way Mick built the team/had it play, for our long term future he needed to go anyway, just should have been a lot sooner to give someone else the chance to change things.

agree 100%

 

[Tring Wolf]

Hi K4E. Firstly, I am and always will be a huge McCarthy fan and am very grateful for the contribution he made to our Club. I am also in full agreement that we wouldn't have been cut adrift to the extent that we are if McCarthy was still here.

I do, however, feel that we would have almost certainly been relegated regardless of who was in charge (including McCarthy). The recent form of Wigan and QPR means that we would have needed a minimum of 17 points from the last 13 games to stay up and due to a combination of our shattered confidence, truly awful home form, inability to keep a clean sheet and injuries to key midfielders, I just couldn't see our current squad of players getting anywhere near that.

Would I feel better about the future with McCarthy here rather than the current situation? Absolutely. Do I think we were right to get rid of McCarthy? Well, unfortunately that's a yes too. We really do have to move forward now and ensure we get the next appointment right.

 

[SmokeyGB]

Sorry, but do you have pictures of Mick on your wall...
Do you get lonely at night just looking at him laying in your bed?

Because your obsession in him is disturbing.....

He's gone ... Get over him.
Right choice......Wrong time.

 

[WolvesAreBoringOnCeefax]

Also it's interesting to see we were only in the relegation zone for 5(?) games in our first season, then only out of it for 9 the next!

 

[NewarkWolf]

But he's not and rightly so. Get over it my friend.

 

[Tettenhall Wolf]

Whilst I agree with your fundemental right to that opinion K4E, I totally disagree with your position on this.

It's a devisive subject. I'm sure this thread will result in the usual slanging match and probably will be locked before lunchtime.

I'm very thankful that Mick came in and did what he did those first 3 years. However, I personally believe Mick should have gone sooner. At the end of last season.

Mainly down to how I perceive his:

Recuitment (in part)
Favouritism (certain players and ultimately sweat over skill)
Tactics (ability to out-think the opposition manager, or change a game)
Loyalty (unwillingness to break up the team for the good of the team)

You may say some of that is harsh, but the whole club was naive, playing it safe and all about comfort zones.

We relied too heavily on trying to get more out of our teams limited, but collective effort and spirit, rather than improving the overall quality and we got found out.

This season has just been the unravelling of that.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

Given the upturn in form of teams like Wigan I think we'd have gone down anyway. We'd probably have more points, maybe have prolonged it for a game or two more, but ultimately we'd still have gone down IMO. The mess we're in is largely down to the way Mick built the team/had it play, for our long term future he needed to go anyway, just should have been a lot sooner to give someone else the chance to change things.

I think Mick probably wanted to change things a lot more than he did, but he had his hands tied by the clowns that run the club. He was far from perfect and I agree the upturn in fortunes of Wigan might have meant us still going down, but I think we might have scraped it. I am a Mick fan, at least he is not a whinging $$$$ like Wenger, or a hypocrite like bloody Ferguson, so I have some sympathy with this thread.

 

[DEVIZESWOLVES]

I am getting so sick of reading that the current state we are in is Mick's fault, we should have got rid of him sooner, if we had got rid of him sooner then we would have survived.

I'm sure I will get pelters for this but it needs saying, have a look at the graph below, we got rid of Mick on game 25, look at our league positioning, before & since, there is no comparison!!!

Am I the only person on this whole forum that would welcome him back?? I know it will never happen as it would mean these 2 prize $$$$$s at the helm admitting they got it wrong, and that will not happen!

Has there ever been a better example of the grass isn't always greener than what has happened to our club since his departure, not only have we fell off a cliff as far as our league position goes, the team look fightless and spiritless and have slumped to pounding after pounding.

He kept us up twice before, why on earth would he not have done it again?

I'm sure people will moan & bitch about me posting this but these are black and white facts, not opinions to be manipulated.

People may ask why I have felt the need to go over this again but it purely comes down to the fact that I for one think the club as a whole would be in a better position with Mick back here than not


http://www.wolverhamptonwanderers-m...2011_2012/wolverhampton_wanderers/index.shtml

Considering we have his assistant in charge, considering Connor rings MM for advice, considering everything about the whole squad is MM legacy then $$$$ing NO!!!!!!!!!!
Get over it FFS.

 

[Ulver]

I am getting so sick of reading that the current state we are in is Mick's fault, we should have got rid of him sooner, if we had got rid of him sooner then we would have survived.

I'm sure I will get pelters for this but it needs saying, have a look at the graph below, we got rid of Mick on game 25, look at our league positioning, before & since, there is no comparison!!!

Am I the only person on this whole forum that would welcome him back?? I know it will never happen as it would mean these 2 prize $$$$$s at the helm admitting they got it wrong, and that will not happen!

Has there ever been a better example of the grass isn't always greener than what has happened to our club since his departure, not only have we fell off a cliff as far as our league position goes, the team look fightless and spiritless and have slumped to pounding after pounding.

He kept us up twice before, why on earth would he not have done it again?

I'm sure people will moan & bitch about me posting this but these are black and white facts, not opinions to be manipulated.

People may ask why I have felt the need to go over this again but it purely comes down to the fact that I for one think the club as a whole would be in a better position with Mick back here than not


http://www.wolverhamptonwanderers-m...2011_2012/wolverhampton_wanderers/index.shtml

Utter nonsense. We were slipping closer and closer to the bottom week by week. The position in the table at that point in time was skewed by our first three results of the season. We were not keeping pace with the teams around us and we were playing awful football.

You ask why he could not have kept us up before? Well before he had a united dressing room and clearly all the players pulling in the same direction. Something has gone wrong in that respect this season and Mick was unable to remedy it. A new man with new staff should have come in to address this first and foremost.

 

[Essex Wolf]

McCarthy should have been moved out at the end of last season after the Blackburn game where the club had scraped survival by the narrowest of margins.

Morgan kept him on and the summer spending was overall poor and clearly nowhere near enough.

Morgan eventually made the right decision but at the wrong time. I believe having left McCarthy in post then when he was sacked another manager should have been already lined up as opposed to giving the totally useless Connor the job. Nothing is a gaurantee but I think McCarthy would have done a better job in the last 13 games than Connor has achieved.

 

[kidder_wolf_II]

Given the upturn in form of teams like Wigan I think we'd have gone down anyway. We'd probably have more points, maybe have prolonged it for a game or two more, but ultimately we'd still have gone down IMO. The mess we're in is largely down to the way Mick built the team/had it play, for our long term future he needed to go anyway, just should have been a lot sooner to give someone else the chance to change things.

Do you want to copy and paste this for everytime someone starts a thread like this please?

The truth might start sinking in eventually with any luck.

 

[Wolfman jack]

I think Mick probably wanted to change things a lot more than he did, but he had his hands tied by the clowns that run the club. He was far from perfect and I agree the upturn in fortunes of Wigan might have meant us still going down, but I think we might have scraped it. I am a Mick fan, at least he is not a whinging $$$$ like Wenger, or a hypocrite like bloody Ferguson, so I have some sympathy with this thread.

What we should know but probaly never will, is whether the poor team building over the last 3 years and this last season in particular, was down to SM, JM or MM. If Mick was happy with the squad plus RJ and JOH, the n its down to him. If he was pleading for more signings, within sensible financial limits (of a better quality than the egg, hopefully) and he wasnt allowed, its down to the SM/JM.

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

McCarthy had a failing strategy and it was always going to end like this at some stage. He was extremely lucky it wasn't last year and he completely failed to build on that get out of jail card. He blew the one thing we had in our favour, team spirit, with Roger Johnson and tactically he was where he always will be, twenty years behind the times. Can anyone seriously imagine Mick coming up with a new formation and turning the season round like Martinez? He varied between an exposed 4-4-2 and a 4-5-1 which meant in the former two £7m players who couldn't gell or in the latter one of them wastefully sitting on the bench. He kept faith with players who wern't good enough spurning opportunities to replace them. In post dismissal interviews he has admitted this himself which leads you to surmise that he knew this all along but was either too loyal or too weak to make the changes. It was only the sack that would ever change this. Mick would have never got rid of these players who were never good enough at this level, they would always have taken us down eventually. It happened this year so this year is the start of the next stage. It could just have easily been last year. We have wasted a whole season in reality by not getting relegated last year.

Newcastle and WBA were recently relegated, have changed managers and are now looking stronger than they have for years. It is up to our owner to make the same quality of decisions on the pitch as they have off it to give us the chance of emulating them.

It would never ever have happened under Mick. He was always going to fail.

 

[Jonzy54]

It's like a broken bloody record.In some peoples eyes he will always come up smelling of roses.Move on now please.

 

[robwolf]

Hi K4E. Firstly, I am and always will be a huge McCarthy fan and am very grateful for the contribution he made to our Club. I am also in full agreement that we wouldn't have been cut adrift to the extent that we are if McCarthy was still here.

I do, however, feel that we would have almost certainly been relegated regardless of who was in charge (including McCarthy). The recent form of Wigan and QPR means that we would have needed a minimum of 17 points from the last 13 games to stay up and due to a combination of our shattered confidence, truly awful home form, inability to keep a clean sheet and injuries to key midfielders, I just couldn't see our current squad of players getting anywhere near that.

Would I feel better about the future with McCarthy here rather than the current situation? Absolutely. Do I think we were right to get rid of McCarthy? Well, unfortunately that's a yes too. We really do have to move forward now and ensure we get the next appointment right.

Well said Tring! I appreciate what mccarthy did for us but wailing about an injustice is a bit pointless now, and as you say it probably wouldnt have changed the outcome. Just made it last longer!

 

[waveney wolf]

spot on Essex
12 months ago,,,skin of teeth..should have gone that afternoon..and we d be ok now

 

[FLEET WOLF]

What we should know but probaly never will, is whether the poor team building over the last 3 years and this last season in particular, was down to SM, JM or MM. If Mick was happy with the squad plus RJ and JOH, the n its down to him. If he was pleading for more signings, within sensible financial limits (of a better quality than the egg, hopefully) and he wasnt allowed, its down to the SM/JM.

Correct, we won't know until MM writes his book. Any manager coming out and criticising spending/wages is soon out the door-ask Nicky Barmby!

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Also it's interesting to see we were only in the relegation zone for 5(?) games in our first season, then only out of it for 9 the next!

that is quite a damming stat.

as much as I appreciate the job Mick did, as well as giving me some of the best memories I've had as a wolves fan, his time was up long before he was sacked.

After our escape last season we should have moved quite a few players on and brought in quite a few. It was time for revolution then, not evolution. The fact that MM then came out a month or so ago (radio interview I believe that was posted somewhere on here) and admitted a certain number of players were "whipped". It happens after fighting a relegation battle for 2/3 years. Mentally and physically they were taxed. A direct result of the style of football we were playing (implemented by Mick), running our guts out, out-fighting teams. You can only get away with it for so long. Unless you really splash out and bring in the quality players who can play different styles or different set of players who can play in the MM mold then it catches you out, like we've found out this season.

I think those wins against the top sides clouded everyone's judgement at the club. While we deserved to win those games, it was a real oddity for that to happen.

While MM is not at total fault here, for me he shoulders the majority of the blame just above Morgan & Moxey. IMO he should have gone either at the end of last season (after the Blackburn game) or before December, that is the fault of JM & SM.

I hope we learn from our mistakes but I won't hold my breath.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

spot on Essex
12 months ago,,,skin of teeth..should have gone that afternoon..and we d be ok now

I am not so sure it as clear cut as that, given perhaps the wages/transfer money situation. Everyone talks about Martinez at Wigan, but every bloody year, all he does is get his players playing for the last few games to scrape it again.

 

[Phitsanulok (Poole) Wolf]

Many intelligent posts on here. I think most people understand why we are where we are.

 

[HUGEWolf]

The reason we were still gash after McCarthy left is that our inept board decided to appoint Connor instead of a manager who could do even a half-decent job with some of the dross players McCarthy had filled our 25 with.

He should have gone last May, when we scraped survival on the final day and finished two positions LOWER than the previous season despite investing around £15million on new players the previous summer. Moxey said there was more cash in the transfer budget at the start of this season but McCarthy claimed he was "happy with the squad". He must have been the only person inside Molineux who was happy with a squad that had NO second holding midfielder to cover for any absences of Henry, still had a converted striker as our starting full-back and, having dispatched Vokes on loan again, still had NO target man as an alternative option to the strikers we have.

I'm sick of hearing this argument that we've invested in the ground over the players. Net-investment in the playing squad over the last 6 years puts us ELEVENTH in the country.

McCarthy spent millions on players who he has then deemed not good/fit enough for regular first team starts (Mouyokolo, Halford, Maierhofer, Milijas, Guedioura, Hammill, Jonsson), completely overlooked our home-grown youngsters (Davis, Mendez-Laing, Batth, Malone) and made the massive mistake of bringing in a new player and immediately making him captain, upsetting the balance of an already-settled squad (clique?) of players (Johnson).

There's no question in my mind that, NO, McCarthy should not still be here. He should have gone much, much sooner if we were to have any chance of staying up/pushing on as a club. A massive error of judgement (blind loyalty?) on Morgan & Moxey's part was to hang on to him until after the transfer window had closed, when no other manager would have enough time, or the opportunity to make some important squad changes, to try and turn our season around.

 

[TFWanderers]

I think the problem is he is still 'very much' at the club.

TC call's him a lot. Most probably runs similar training and tactics as him.

Nothing has changed and we needed change.

The one thing that really confuses me about McCarthy is the West Brom game. First half, let's be honest, they battered us. Completely over run us in midfield. I said to my mate we need to bulk up midfield or they are going to hammer us second half.

He didn't change it. Why? Why not resort to 451? If I can see it, why couldn't he?

It cost him his job.

 

[AW]

I hate it how everybody in the media and some of my mates are saying that we are going down because we sacked mick.
People who have this view demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the club and the team. One of my mates thinks Adam Hammill is our best player by a mile. He didn't even know he was out on loan...shows what a Chelsea fan knows.

 

[FLEET WOLF]

I hate it how everybody in the media and some of my mates are saying that we are going down because we sacked mick.
People who have this view demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the club and the team. One of my mates thinks Adam Hammill is our best player by a mile. He didn't even know he was out on loan...shows what a Chelsea fan knows.

Most Chelsea fans know very little about football in general, in my experience.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Mick should either still be here as manager - with the full backing of the board - or he and his entire set-up should have been completely replaced.

Our failure to act decisively either way has cost us our Premier league status.

If we could appoint a Mick clone - someone who hadn't just managed us for 5 years - I'm certain we'd win promotion next year. As it is, we're going to have gamble on a fresh Championship manager, unless we go with Bruce - a manager of Mick's ilk.

 

[TFWanderers]

I went down to London for a course and the bloke said ah, you're a midlander, who do you support.

'Wolves' - ah you made a massive mistake getting rid of McCarthy, he'd have kept you up.

I said no, it was on the cards for months, the timing by the board was horrific.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

I hate it how everybody in the media and some of my mates are saying that we are going down because we sacked mick.
People who have this view demonstrate a lack of knowledge about the club and the team. One of my mates thinks Adam Hammill is our best player by a mile. He didn't even know he was out on loan...shows what a Chelsea fan knows.

Most of the media follow that suit just because they're fond of Mick. He was up-front and honest (most of the times in his interview), was always worth a sound-bite or two and was always well respected.

Sadly this just clouds their judgement of him. But you can't back a man who has won 5 of 25 games.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Most of the media follow that suit just because they're fond of Mick. He was up-front and honest (most of the times in his interview), was always worth a sound-bite or two and was always well respected.

Sadly this just clouds their judgement of him. But you can't back a man who has won 5 of 25 games.

Wigan did

 

[Essex Wolf]

I am not so sure it as clear cut as that, given perhaps the wages/transfer money situation. Everyone talks about Martinez at Wigan, but every bloody year, all he does is get his players playing for the last few games to scrape it again.

Fair point FW but McCarthy was not getting the team to perform that well that often.

Wigan can at least say they are still a PL club.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Wigan did

Wigan didn't play a style of football that left their players physically and mentally taxed after each season, at least IMO.

And maybe, just maybe, Roberto Martinez is a better manager than Mick.

 

[TFWanderers]

Martinez lost a couple of key players last summer.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

Wigan didn't play a style of football that left their players physically and mentally taxed after each season, at least IMO.

And maybe, just maybe, Roberto Martinez is a better manager than Mick.

I think Roberto Martinez is a huge beneficiary of his name being Roberto Martinez, as opposed to Bob Martins. I think he's a good manager but not one who deserves the accolades he receives - even though his team are playing like world-beaters at the moment.

I'm just playing devil's advocate anyway - I didn't disagree with Mick's sacking at the time as I assumed that the board would install a new manager, rather than his assistant.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

Martinez lost a couple of key players last summer.

Can only think of N'zogbia.

 

[TFWanderers]

Can only think of N'zogbia.

Cleverly

 

[sedgwolf1980]

Think i best keep off this thread. I sense a lifetime ban if i hang around here too long.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

I think Roberto Martinez is a huge beneficiary of his name being Roberto Martinez, as opposed to Bob Martins. I think he's a good manager but not one who deserves the accolades he receives - even though his team are playing like world-beaters at the moment.

I'm just playing devil's advocate anyway - I didn't disagree with Mick's sacking at the time as I assumed that the board would install a new manager, rather than his assistant.

I'd be intrigued to see how much money he's had to spend since being at Wigan.
Regardless of his name, his sides play good football.