Matheus Cunha

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

best player ever to play for wolves

Yep... except maybe Billy Wright, Stan Cullis, John Richards, Derek Dougan, Dave Wagstaffe, Steve Bull, Bert Williams, Kenny Hibbitt, Peter Broadbent, Ron Flowers, Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Raul Jiminez and Pedro Neto.

 

[WolfLing]

GON says a bit of muscle damage already working on it in no pain
So im guessing at 4-6 weeks max
He does also say they will give him every chance and not push him so who knows

If he has no pain already, it could be even sooner.

 

[Streathamwolf]

best player ever to play for wolves

Big competition Wright, Broadheath, Mullen, Douglas, King John, Billy, Neves

 

[Longford Wolf]

Big competition Wright, Broadheath, Mullen, Douglas, King John, Billy, Neves

Barry Douglas and Billy Kellock ????

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

He’s the best runner with the ball from deep that I’ve seen that’s for sure.

Baller.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

would say him and neto jota and jimenez are in the top 25.

With neves the highest up the list from the modern crop

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

easily in top 100 ffs

Of all time? You're joking. We won the Cup in 1949, the great 50s teams, the great 70s team, we won the LC in 1980, Bully, the great Nuno team. And Cunha's only been with us 5 minutes.

 

[northnorfolkwolf]

Hw’s the best runner with the ball from deep that I’ve seen that’s for sure.

Baller.

You obviously never saw Dave Wagstaffe or Kenny Hibbitt? I think many on here do not realise Wolves had pretty good sides back after the War, in the 50s, in the 70s and of course Nuno's time.

 

[TriumphWolf]

Yep... except maybe Billy Wright, Stan Cullis, John Richards, Derek Dougan, Dave Wagstaffe, Steve Bull, Bert Williams, Kenny Hibbitt, Peter Broadbent, Ron Flowers, Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Raul Jiminez and Pedro Neto.

Indeed, and don’t forget a certain ‘Gods Footballer’, Mr Peter Knowles

 

[SA Wolf]

You obviously never saw Dave Wagstaffe or Kenny Hibbitt? I think many on here do not realise Wolves had pretty good sides back after the War, in the 50s, in the 70s and of course Nuno's time.

Pre- 1992. nothing counts. Football only started with the Premier League.

 

[purplepault69]

Of all time? You're joking. We won the Cup in 1949, the great 50s teams, the great 70s team, we won the LC in 1980, Bully, the great Nuno team. And Cunha's only been with us 5 minutes.

What about LC 1974 ?

 

[lets all have a disco]

I think it's fair to say pre 2000 was certainly a different time to be a wolves fan....off course we can list loads of players who were better in a wolves shirt than say Cunha....there's probably 50 or more minimum....

But I don't think you can underestimate some of the recent foreign players who have played for us....I never thought years ago we would have full Brazilian international players playing for us.... nevermind probably 2 with soon to be Gomes..... obviously this raises the bar with mentioning these players....Cunha Jimenez Mounts Jota Neves and co are definitely in the better player bracket we have had but probably need a separate list as best foreign players in a wolves shirt.....

In terms of pedigree of player for instance Moutinho is up there with any player we have had..but that doesn't make him a better wolves player than Kenny H for instance......

 

[Northampton_wolf]

any comparison with players is hard,

alot of pre 1990 footballers wouldnt cut it in the best prem teams of today, but some would.

Game has evolved so much and thats very hard to compare players, even with standouts, but what you can say is the players who ran freely on the terrible pitches and heavier balls would have it much easier in the days of much greater modern equipment and pitch quality (hibbit, best, maradonna etc)


But you watch the 1980league cup final wolves v forest you can see a deft in quality compared to modern era, in my opinion, but if you spoke to my grandad when he was alive, he would have listed through many names to grace the team who were unbelievable

Epsecially through 60s and 70s like Dougan, who i spoke to on many occasion before his passing

 

[Glow69]

Of all time? You're joking. We won the Cup in 1949, the great 50s teams, the great 70s team, we won the LC in 1980, Bully, the great Nuno team. And Cunha's only been with us 5 minutes.

Cunha easily in top 100 to play for wolves on ability not even a debate.

 

[Bostin]

any comparison with players is hard,

alot of pre 1990 footballers wouldnt cut it in the best prem teams of today, but some would.

Game has evolved so much and thats very hard to compare players, even with standouts, but what you can say is the players who ran freely on the terrible pitches and heavier balls would have it much easier in the days of much greater modern equipment and pitch quality (hibbit, best, maradonna etc)


But you watch the 1980league cup final wolves v forest you can see a deft in quality compared to modern era, in my opinion, but if you spoke to my grandad when he was alive, he would have listed through many names to grace the team who were unbelievable

Epsecially through 60s and 70s like Dougan, who i spoke to on many occasion before his passing

Has the standard of defenders not improved though? So if those players were to play in modern times, they would be less effective?

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Has the standard of defenders not improved though? So if those players were to play in modern times, they would be less effective?

perhaps but without cloning the players and dropping them into now its near enough impossible to understand how effective a free flowing george best would be for example

 

[wolfslair]

I saw all the players you mention apart from Billy Wright. They were all fantastic players. My favourite ever Wolves player was John Richards.

Cunha has the potential to be absolutely world class. it wouldn’t surprise me if in 3 years time he’s a Brazil regular and playing at the top of champions league.

I can get on board with the last part!!! The premier league is the hardest league in the world. If you are a top player here, more often than not you will be a top level player globally.

Look at how many times top performers from other leagues flop or take years to even hit a good level…..

 

[wolfslair]

Has the standard of defenders not improved though? So if those players were to play in modern times, they would be less effective?

Weirdly mate, the ability for defenders to make calls and decisions on the fly has gotten lower over the years I have seen first hand.

A lot of it is down to the amount of prep and video analysis and the depth of player strategy. Has taken a great amount of ownership or need for players to make their own calls away.

So while players are much fitter and more powerful, the more mental side isn’t as good as it used to be for sure

 

[Scallywolf]

Yep... except maybe Billy Wright, Stan Cullis, John Richards, Derek Dougan, Dave Wagstaffe, Steve Bull, Bert Williams, Kenny Hibbitt, Peter Broadbent, Ron Flowers, Ruben Neves, Joao Moutinho, Raul Jiminez and Pedro Neto.

You forgot Peter Knowles.

 

[The Clock]

Cunha easily in top 100 to play for wolves on ability not even a debate.

There probably would be a debate, and therefore doubtful he is

 

[Ginger Chimp]

What about LC 1974 ?

Covered off by " ... the great 70s team"

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

You obviously never saw Dave Wagstaffe or Kenny Hibbitt? I think many on here do not realise Wolves had pretty good sides back after the War, in the 50s, in the 70s and of course Nuno's time.

I’m 45 so no.

And to be so condescending as to say I don’t realise we have had good sides prior to recent times is insulting.

 

[GoldenHorseshoe]

You obviously never saw Dave Wagstaffe or Kenny Hibbitt? I think many on here do not realise Wolves had pretty good sides back after the War, in the 50s, in the 70s and of course Nuno's time.

Come on mate, you're getting carried away here, there players you mention are my era too and I loved many of them, plus knocker Knowles (my favorite), but Cunha definitely deserves to be mentioned in the same vein. The fact that he's been here just a short time is a different argument altogether.

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

Pre- 1992. nothing counts. Football only started with the Premier League.

Ridiculous comment.

My first Wolves game was in 1988 so what I am supposed to say?

Yes, Dave Wagstaffe who I never saw play as I wasn’t born is the best ball carrier I’ve seen in a Wolves shirt.

 

[glorybox]

The overall standard of player in English top flight football is far higher than its ever been so for a player like Cunha to stand out amongst all of these amazing footballers means he has every right to be talked about in the same breath as our best players of the 50's, 60's and 70's.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760655446283542566

 

[BillyBoots]

A

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760655446283542566

T last a post about what's going on with the lad instead of who's better blah blah blah

 

[Jefe]

The difficulties in comparisons between modern and older Footballers notwithstanding, Cunha would struggle to get into a front three of prime Raul, Jota and Neto from merely a few years ago. Let alone live up to such epithets as greatest ever Wolves player or some of the other OTT praise he gets. He's very good, especially when he dribbles in deeper lying areas, but it will take longer at his current levels and better to get anywhere near that conversation.

 

[the 15th Wanderer]

I think it's fair to say pre 2000 was certainly a different time to be a wolves fan....off course we can list loads of players who were better in a wolves shirt than say Cunha....there's probably 50 or more minimum....

But I don't think you can underestimate some of the recent foreign players who have played for us....I never thought years ago we would have full Brazilian international players playing for us.... nevermind probably 2 with soon to be Gomes..... obviously this raises the bar with mentioning these players....Cunha Jimenez Mounts Jota Neves and co are definitely in the better player bracket we have had but probably need a separate list as best foreign players in a wolves shirt.....

In terms of pedigree of player for instance Moutinho is up there with any player we have had..but that doesn't make him a better wolves player than Kenny H for instance......

A good point. I think it's important to differentiate between what players achieved with wolves and actual ability. Football now is a very different game from in the past pitch, ball, boots, fitness, tactics etc. You can only play what is in front of you so I would never want to detract from past achievements. Having said that Matheus Cunha would walk into any wolves team up until the last 5 years with his pace and ability. It's a close call between him and Jota to partner Jiminez in the modern era. I prefer Cunha.

 

[WolfLing]

The difficulties in comparisons between modern and older Footballers notwithstanding, Cunha would struggle to get into a front three of prime Raul, Jota and Neto from merely a few years ago. Let alone live up to such epithets as greatest ever Wolves player or some of the other OTT praise he gets. He's very good, especially when he dribbles in deeper lying areas, but it will take longer at his current levels and better to get anywhere near that conversation.

All this talk has got me thinking about a Nuno/GON combined XI.

And I would agree, front 3 in that has to be Jota/Raul/Neto, with Cunha first choice from the bench.

 

[Flump]

Can't see how it's possible for him to not be in the top 100, that needs some powerful rose tinted glasses. We've only had 42 players with more international caps than him, and a lot of those are from countries with sides far easier to get into than Brazil.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

All this talk has got me thinking about a Nuno/GON combined XI.

And I would agree, front 3 in that has to be Jota/Raul/Neto, with Cunha first choice from the bench.

4-2-4

Cunha behind Raul

Jota and Neto wingers

 

[WolfLing]

4-2-4

Cunha behind Raul

Jota and Neto wingers

If it's a Nuno and GON combined XI, it has to be 3-4-3.

But yeah, if you're freestyling that would work.

 

[gazzahez]

Come on mate, you're getting carried away here, there players you mention are my era too and I loved many of them, plus knocker Knowles (my favorite), but Cunha definitely deserves to be mentioned in the same vein. The fact that he's been here just a short time is a different argument altogether.

The question is obviously open to differing interpretation. Many seem to be answering with "who had the best Wolves career?" rather than who is the best player ever to play for Wolves. Taken to extremes, if peak Messi played one game for Wolves, got sent off after 5 mins after scoring an own goal, it would be perfectly legitimate to say he is objectively the best player to ever play for Wolves.

 

[brianm]

Watching football from even the early part of this century is hilarious. The players barely run compared to now. I threw on some old German football from the 70s to watch Beckenbauer etc and it's just a different game. These guys look like they're playing with a cigarette dangling from their lip.

With modern standards of training, technology, etc I'm sure they would look better, but the athletic demands of the game have changed dramatically. Comparisons aren't very fruitful.

 

[VancouverWolf]

I don't think he or the club would take the risk.

I think you’re right but I was following on from a post that claims Cunha is anxious to play.

 

[Glow69]

There probably would be a debate, and therefore doubtful he is

I'd love to know the top 100 if he isn't in it. Considering 45 year worth of players can be wrote off apart from a few in Nuno era.

 

[SilverstoneWolf]

Comparing generations always creates far more heat than light. I loved Waggy and a host of others from late 50s and 70s, but before we get carried away with just how 'great' the likes of Richards, Bull, Wagstaffe, Hibbitt and so on and so on were, we should ask ourselves a simple question: "If they were SO good, how come they have but a handful of international caps between them?

Moutinho (admittedly mostly before he joined us) over a hundred, Patricio 107, Jimenez 104, Saiss 82, Neves 45, Jota 36, and of current crop Semedo 27, Sarabia 26 (and many on here thought both were rubbish!), Lemina 25, Cunha has 11 already for Brazil, Neto 5, Toti 1, Sa 1,

Yes - for England we had Billy with 105 and Ron with 49, Bert Williams 24, but also Jimmy Mullen 12, Bill Slater 12, Ince 53 (mostly elsewhere) Bobby Thompson 8, Bailey 2, John Richards 1, Hibbitt 0, Wagstaffe 0, Coady 10 (and of course throw in a few Welsh, Irish and Scottish players - but again few have many caps - apart from Hennessy (109) Dave Edwards (43) Dougan 43, Frank Munro 9.....

We have not exactly been blessed with many 'great' players over the years. In fact, the caps won whilst playing for us is pitifully small ... until recent years. So perhaps we should cut the 'younger element' some slack and allow them to hero-worship the likes of Rui, Raul, Ruben, Romain, Diogo, Nelson, Pablo and even Conor... And in future Joao and who else...? Bellegarde? Doyle? Who knows....

 

[Ginger Chimp]

Comparing generations always creates far more heat than light. I loved Waggy and a host of others from late 50s and 70s, but before we get carried away with just how 'great' the likes of Richards, Bull, Wagstaffe, Hibbitt and so on and so on were, we should ask ourselves a simple question: "If they were SO good, how come they have but a handful of international caps between them?

Moutinho (admittedly mostly before he joined us) over a hundred, Patricio 107, Jimenez 104, Saiss 82, Neves 45, Jota 36, and of current crop Semedo 27, Sarabia 26 (and many on here thought both were rubbish!), Lemina 25, Cunha has 11 already for Brazil, Neto 5, Toti 1, Sa 1,

Yes - for England we had Billy with 105 and Ron with 49, Bert Williams 24, but also Jimmy Mullen 12, Bill Slater 12, Ince 53 (mostly elsewhere) Bobby Thompson 8, Bailey 2, John Richards 1, Hibbitt 0, Wagstaffe 0, Coady 10 (and of course throw in a few Welsh, Irish and Scottish players - but again few have many caps - apart from Hennessy (109) Dave Edwards (43) Dougan 43, Frank Munro 9.....

We have not exactly been blessed with many 'great' players over the years. In fact, the caps won whilst playing for us is pitifully small ... until recent years. So perhaps we should cut the 'younger element' some slack and allow them to hero-worship the likes of Rui, Raul, Ruben, Romain, Diogo, Nelson, Pablo and even Conor... And in future Joao and who else...? Bellegarde? Doyle? Who knows....

Pah! Facts.

 

[Aurum Lupus]

The difficulties in comparisons between modern and older Footballers notwithstanding, Cunha would struggle to get into a front three of prime Raul, Jota and Neto from merely a few years ago. Let alone live up to such epithets as greatest ever Wolves player or some of the other OTT praise he gets. He's very good, especially when he dribbles in deeper lying areas, but it will take longer at his current levels and better to get anywhere near that conversation.

I think if you compare all 4 when "on it" its a very difficult decision. However you're right, he needs to do this for another season and a half to be genuinely even be in a recent legends discussion.