Man Utd 1975

[sedgwolf1980]

Anyone watch the 70's program on bbc2 tonight?

See the host, Dominic Sandbrook, is a Wolves fan! Was anyone at the infamous game he mentions versus man utd, 75?

 

[AW]

What happened at the game?

 

[Jim Rockford]

http://www.dominicsandbrook.com/about/

 

[sedgwolf1980]

A good old punch up by the sounds of it!

Burton, was you there...?

 

[AW]

http://www.dominicsandbrook.com/about/

He's been a lecturer at the best university in the world!

 

[Jungleee]

Recall someone talking about this game...can't remember what they said though. Something about United fans being fairly barmy.

 

[Jungleee]

http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=65113

 

[jackfieldwolf]

I remember this game vividly. Opening game of the season at Molineux. Utd' first game back in the top flight after their one season sojourn in the second tier.

Man Utd fans were at the forfront of a Hooliganism epidemic. authorities were starting to realise that the game was under serious threat. During the previous season Utd fans had featured in a what we would call today 'A fly on the wall documentry'

A TV documentary team turned up for UTD's game at Norwich. In their naivety they thought their film footage would some how shame UTd's fans into better behaviour. Needless to say the complete opposite happened, Utd fans soon realised they were the 'Stars' of the documentary and acted accordingly. Result absolute carnage.

Around this period policing was so disorganised, or so feeble that Hooligan emements were able to run riot through town and city centres.

Utd fans were undoubtably the worst during this period in the mid 70's purely because of the massive number of fans that followed them away from home.

Par for the course during this period was the pre kick off pitch invasion. Police hopelessly outnumbered and 'pre Hillsborough' no segregation or fences to check deteremined numbers of fans chancing their arm to race across the terraces and pitches.

Before the 1974 game at Molineux hundreds of Utd fans raced acrosss the pitch from the South Bank with the intention of taking what during this period was Wolves home end the North Bank. Their tracks were halted just outside the penalty area when about a hundred North Bank hard cases raced onto the pitch to confront them, which it is iinteresting to note quite a number of afro caribean Wolvesfans at the forefront.

Utd fans tried again in the '75 match with a similar outcome. But the worst trouble occured in Waterloo Road after the game. Up to that point in following Wolves I had never seen anything like it.

Thankfully those days are over.

 

[singwolf_1]

If I recall, we lost 2-4 :-(

 

[BlahBlah]

If I recall, we lost 2-4 :-(

Nope...that was a season or 2 later, my first match. Joe Jordan scored an offside goal and Steve Daley scored that screamer for Wolves.

Man U in the 70's were terrible....there was that game at Derby where they all ran on wearing flares with scarfs wrapped round their wrists and started booting everything in sight, looks really funny today. They used to take 20,000 away lol

 

[reanswolf]

Yes indeed Man Utd were bad in those days but was due to numbers, as we all know they have legions of fans from everywhere, but Everton and the ****neys were tougher man for man IMO, maybe because United were used to such numbers. Forest too in the 70's. In 1978 a United nearly died when he was stabbed in the lung in the George which they didnt stay long in.

Wolves had a tough reputation at home though in those days, and were well known for trouble at away games in the midlands at least.

Its soft nowadays compared to how it was.

 

[Shergar]

I remember a lot of Utd fans being in the town on the Friday night and there being various skirmishes. I can also remember the pic in the E&S with all the early arrivers being contained by the police in the pen at the back of the South Bank turnstiles behind the hotel.
But my most vivid memory was of a fan in big red docs and he had a white butchers coat on with ****ney Reds written on it swaggering up Waterloo Road bumping into people and has he reached the NB turnstiles some normal looking bloke in the queue just decked him, then there was a bit of a stand off between the 2 groups of mates... I remember thinking at the time how the older fan whilst not dressing or looking for trouble could still look after themselves if needed.

 

[dazmanwolf]

I remember as a kid at an away game at Birmingham in the late 70's that we were charged down by Mounted Police. I was only about 9 or 10 and my dad had to pull the copper off of his horse to protect me. We were only crossing a road and a massive fight broke out between rival fans. Happy memories, but rough days at football matches back then.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

There were many such incidents back then.

I remember that particular game being worse than most due to it being the first game of the season and United just returning to the first division. Consequently they had a bigger than usual following. They always had a big away following, many from all around the country.

I was 'goaded' in Molineux Street by a group of them. We just ignored them mainly and that bunch dispersed. (I don't really think they 'fancied' it)

Although there were some nasty incidents much of the claptrap surrounding Hooliganism is overplayed. Most were just little girly boys acting tough. So were many of the other teams 'hard cases'.

I remember them all as irritating little $$$$s in the main.

The 'Affro-Carribean' group mentioned would have been the so-called North Bank 'Spades'- to use a politically incorrect term.

The account given above is correct. About 100 did confront them and they stopped in their tracks. Which only goes to prove my assessment of the times. Much of it was pathetic bravado.

We lost the game 2-0 by the way.

Later that seson we played them in the QF of the FA Cup. Drew 1-1 (Richards) and lost the replay at Molineux.(3-2) I went to Old Trafford and was subject to objects being thrown at us after we scored.

In it's way this 'unrest' contributed to the 'sterile' atmosphere at games today. The crowd control has been overplayed, although I agree policing/control had to improve.

 

[Gornal-wolf]

Was just speaking to my old man about this. He recalls that Man united were the team that would go into a wolves pub if they were in great numbers. He said that man united ran into a pub and beat a little kid up, robbed his scarf and legged it. He then went on to say that the ****neys were always the ones to avoid, as they would walk into a pub with 10 of them, and smash the pub up. Glad to see its all improved. Now, it's a $$$$ed up fat bloke going through a mid life crisis .

 

[Burton Wolf]

A good old punch up by the sounds of it!

Burton, was you there...?

I was there at 16 years of age. Other people have described what happened. I got cornered on Waterloo Rd. after the game by two United fans in there 30's who robbed me of my scarf. I've searched for them every United game since. Never found them, mind you they'll be in their 70's now, so I guess I'll have to nick the wheels off their wheelchairs as closure!

 

[George Berry]

This is my first post - though I've been lurking around this board for years - but I am the presenter of the show The 70s, and I am indeed a Wolves fan. (TPS member in the Billy Wright Stand.) So it's been really interesting to read this thread. We actually filmed that sequence outside Molineux on the day before we beat Wigan last November. Seems a long time ago now!

In case anyone is planning to watch the final episode of the series, I should warn you that part of it is about the West Brom side of the late 1970s (the Three Degrees and all that) and we filmed at their training ground, so you may need to look away ...

 

[Oxford_Wolf]

I worked for Balliol as database manager and never came accross him.

 

[BitterBob]

That was Tommy Docherty's team, Pearson, Gordon Hill, Martin Buchan etc, really exciting pacey football. Went to OT for the cup game, shame they beat us in the replay.
Every teams fans used to run from one end to the other, pre KO and at half time.
Utd had the numbers but imo Everton were the hardest.
Exciting times.

 

[Burton Wolf]

That was Tommy Docherty's team, Pearson, Gordon Hill, Martin Buchan etc, really exciting pacey football. Went to OT for the cup game, shame they beat us in the replay.
Every teams fans used to run from one end to the other, pre KO and at half time.
Utd had the numbers but imo Everton were the hardest.
Exciting times.

We never faced them that often but Millwall were the hardest by a long long way.

 

[jackfieldwolf]

I was there at 16 years of age. Other people have described what happened. I got cornered on Waterloo Rd. after the game by two United fans in there 30's who robbed me of my scarf. I've searched for them every United game since. Never found them, mind you they'll be in their 70's now, so I guess I'll have to nick the wheels off their wheelchairs as closure!

Just to add a personal anecdote to my original post regarding the 1975 opener. Coming from Bridgnorth, which is mainly Wolves through and through, although there was quite a sizable Man U following from the town of which I knew most of them. Three of these guys were clearly seen on the pitch attempting to get to the North Bank when the afore mentioned West Indian contingent chased them off the pitch. Me and my mates roared with laughter when our three Man U Bridgo fans were sent scurrying through the Waterloo Road stand.

Although we were not so amused after the game when it all kicked off along Waterloo Road. As I've said befrore I had never seen so much trouble along that road before or since that day. My mate who already had a broken arm in plaster was attacked along with a load of us.

By the time we got to the station to catch our bus home [ the small bus station at that period was situated right against the canal on the approach to the station] all hell had broken loose with Wolves fans routing the Utd fans towards the station. Not long after this 'battle' I saw a well nown Utd fan from Bridgo legging it towards the bus. He was battered black and blue and soaked to the skin. After our bus had left the station he breathlessly told us that Wolves fans had beat him up and thrown him in the canal. Not really funny, from his point of view, but boy there was some serious $$$$ taking all the way back to Bridgo

 

[Lycanthrope]

breathlessly told us that Wolves fans had beat him up and thrown him in the canal.

Loff!

Lets face it, Molineux has always been a rough ride for any club to come to. 20 odd thousands fans anywhere else they would have had the total run of the place.

 

[Mister Rabbit]

This is my first post - though I've been lurking around this board for years - but I am the presenter of the show The 70s, and I am indeed a Wolves fan. (TPS member in the Billy Wright Stand.) So it's been really interesting to read this thread. We actually filmed that sequence outside Molineux on the day before we beat Wigan last November. Seems a long time ago now!
.

The thing I like most about the programme is that it is called The 70s. Nobody decided to insert an unnecessary apostrophe before the "s."

See, we have the BBC showing us the way and people still get it bloody wrong!

Great programme, by the way :thumbup:

 

[Wagstaffe Was Magic]

This is my first post - though I've been lurking around this board for years - but I am the presenter of the show The 70s, and I am indeed a Wolves fan. (TPS member in the Billy Wright Stand.) So it's been really interesting to read this thread. We actually filmed that sequence outside Molineux on the day before we beat Wigan last November. Seems a long time ago now!

In case anyone is planning to watch the final episode of the series, I should warn you that part of it is about the West Brom side of the late 1970s (the Three Degrees and all that) and we filmed at their training ground, so you may need to look away ...

Welcome to the madness . . .

 

[wesley]

This is my first post - though I've been lurking around this board for years - but I am the presenter of the show The 70s, and I am indeed a Wolves fan. (TPS member in the Billy Wright Stand.) So it's been really interesting to read this thread. We actually filmed that sequence outside Molineux on the day before we beat Wigan last November. Seems a long time ago now!

In case anyone is planning to watch the final episode of the series, I should warn you that part of it is about the West Brom side of the late 1970s (the Three Degrees and all that) and we filmed at their training ground, so you may need to look away ...

Great show - loved all three eps so far. I was born in 1973 - god knows what my parents thought they were bringing me in to. Far worse than the economic troubles we have now.

 

[tatlor]

This is my first post - though I've been lurking around this board for years - but I am the presenter of the show The 70s, and I am indeed a Wolves fan. (TPS member in the Billy Wright Stand.) So it's been really interesting to read this thread. We actually filmed that sequence outside Molineux on the day before we beat Wigan last November. Seems a long time ago now!

In case anyone is planning to watch the final episode of the series, I should warn you that part of it is about the West Brom side of the late 1970s (the Three Degrees and all that) and we filmed at their training ground, so you may need to look away ...

It's a good series I've enjoyed watching it. Did you choose the background music?

 

[George Berry]

It's a good series I've enjoyed watching it. Did you choose the background music?

No, I can't take any credit for the music! The producer (a Hibs fan) really knows his music and I think he probably spent months working out which track would go best with each clip.

The producers gave me so much stick about being a Wolves fan, especially as the season went on. This week's episode coincided with our end-of-series party so the whole team watched it together, and at my line "Wolverhampton Wanderers, pride of the Midlands", everybody started laughing. Jez Moxey, you have a lot to answer for ...

One funny thing happened to us when we were filming at Molineux last November. It was getting dark and we were starting to wrap up when a man came up and asked what we were doing. We told him we were making a documentary series about the 1970s for BBC2. He looked anxiously at his watch: "Is it on tonight?"

 

[tatlor]

No, I can't take any credit for the music! The producer (a Hibs fan) really knows his music and I think he probably spent months working out which track would go best with each clip.

The producers gave me so much stick about being a Wolves fan, especially as the season went on. This week's episode coincided with our end-of-series party so the whole team watched it together, and at my line "Wolverhampton Wanderers, pride of the Midlands", everybody started laughing. Jez Moxey, you have a lot to answer for ...

One funny thing happened to us when we were filming at Molineux last November. It was getting dark and we were starting to wrap up when a man came up and asked what we were doing. We told him we were making a documentary series about the 1970s for BBC2. He looked anxiously at his watch: "Is it on tonight?"

Priceless


Good choice of music by your producer

 

[wolvesjoe]

In general it was a mad season for those not around. Most Wolves fans were really looking forward to a successful season, with expectations of a top 6 finish. We had looked really good pre-season, and the Richards-Kindon partnership was promising. The younger players like Daley and Sunderland were coming into their own, and a midfield of Bailey, Carr and Hibbit looked strong. But for some reason it never clicked consistently. And that very edgy game against Utd at the start set the pattern. Our problem was mainly scoring goals. On the right day, we were unstoppable and scored 5 goals three times with another four goal haul on another occasion. But Kindon turned out to be too much of a wild card and Mike Bailey was no longer the key man he used to be. That meant that we had effectively lost Dougan, Wagstaffe and Bailey in the space of 12 months from their and the club's best days.

The violence throughtout the season was pretty intense, with the worst I saw being after the Birmingham away game in December, I think. That was terrifying and on a more serious level. But the home replay against Utd was possibly the most exciting game of football I have ever seen live. A fabulous occasion. And the final game against Liverpool was again a stunning game. Liverpool took over the town, the stadium and eventually the game after a bright start by us. That Liverpool team looked like an alien race in their power and speed compared to us.

 

[Wonder Boyo]

No, I can't take any credit for the music! The producer (a Hibs fan) really knows his music and I think he probably spent months working out which track would go best with each clip.

The producers gave me so much stick about being a Wolves fan, especially as the season went on. This week's episode coincided with our end-of-series party so the whole team watched it together, and at my line "Wolverhampton Wanderers, pride of the Midlands", everybody started laughing. Jez Moxey, you have a lot to answer for ...

One funny thing happened to us when we were filming at Molineux last November. It was getting dark and we were starting to wrap up when a man came up and asked what we were doing. We told him we were making a documentary series about the 1970s for BBC2. He looked anxiously at his watch: "Is it on tonight?"

It's an absolutely brilliant series, I've really enjoyed watching it. After watching this week's episode, my wife (both of us were born in the late 60s) looked over at me and said "bloody hell, maybe Thatcher was what Britain needed at that time after all" and then we both went silent as I was thinking the same thing! That's quite a turnaround for us! Really thought provoking and entertaining.

 

[Pengwern]

I must say I prefer Andy Beckett's take on the 70s, but that's a book rather than a TV series so you can't really compare.

Having lived through both I would say the 80s was actually a more violent and conflict-ridden decade and also had worse music than the 70s. The main difference is who won the main battles - in the 70s it was the workers and in the 80s it was the rich, and history usually gets written, if not by the victors, then by people who think like them. I think that's why the 70s has been dissed so often since.

The Football aggro was the opposite, though - until Thatcher adopted the Hong Kong school of policing crowds in preparation for taking on the miners, Football gangs had had the run of the police, who mostly had a very old age profile for a police force, as so many had joined up after being demobbed in the late 40s and couldn't run fast at all. Anarchic mass crowd pageants were still possible then. My particular memory is taking over the whole fo the Bolton end in '78 apart from one big bloke who refused to shift, although he was surrounded by about 10,000 of us. Another, from my London days in the early 70s, is about 10 to 20 Coventry fans in the middle of the old Arsenal North Bank, too terrified to try and leave, surrounded by thousands of North London Skinheads, all of whom thought that this lot just have to be superthugs, despite their appearance, to take that degree of risk, so nothing happened.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

The series highlighted a report on the causes of football 'violence.' I can't remember which one but the conclusion was the problem lay in sons no longer going to the games with their fathers, the latter finding other things to do with their spare time.

I have to say I find that a bit hard to believe. Several of those who attended with me came from 'broken' homes. One rarely saw his father but in no way was he a football 'hooligan', nor were any of us. I have said before on here there were times when we would be 'sucked' in, but that was more a case of not allowing ourselves to be intimidated by a bunch of wannabe hard men and acted after having something thrown at us or 'charged'.

I can't remember one incident, when after we 'retaliated' , those 'hooligans' didn't 'leg it' as fast as they could to 'safety'.

We attended every home game and many away games in the seventies, and were present at most of the 'notorious' games. It was just tiresome in the main from how I/we saw it. I spent the seventies going through my Twenties, age wise, by the way.

Many 'hooligans were happy to have their 'reputations' enhanced by bull$$$$ documentaries on the subject ( no offence meant to the current one) or by 'folklore' of peers telling tales of heroism.

I posted some time ago about the Chelsea game at Molineux in 1975. We stepped in to stop a group of Chelsea 'hard men' attacking a few 12 year olds. One of the Chelsea fans was taking quite a beating from one of our group. I pulled him away and the Chelsea 'hard man' couldn't escape quickly enough. I often wondered what his story might have been to his mates. No doubt his 'war' wounds were 'won' in 'brave' style.

The police just looked on and watched and then tried to arrest us. Thanfully some older fans and the kids we had 'protected' spoke up for us and the police just left it all alone. The police were really clueless back then as to how to deal with such incidents.

I don't profess to know the reason behind it all. I can remember attending Molineux before segregation etc, and while I remember there were several 'heated' incidents on the old South Bank, one or two involving my own (older) family members, they tended to be 'one-to-one' and sorted out with a brief bit of fisticuffs and a ticking off from the old bill, before everyone shook hands and watched the game.

 

[doog]

The main stand outs of the early seventy's for me are, the one armed fella leading The Chelsea mob over the pitch, St Andrews one snowy Saturday, 10 20 30 thousand or more Coventry....
oh and a bitter cold day in the scoreboard end when we thrashed Utd 1-3

 

[Pengwern]

BNW, I agree that most incidents prior to Thatcherite policing involved just a few people fighting and loads of 'extras' like you and me on the fringes. If the ones fighting for one side ran or walked away, then their extras ran even faster and the other side's extras ran after them. Once or twice when running away I decided to stop and, yes, the other side's extras stopped running after me.

Basically, we had to learn to live with opposing fans and find a way of co-existing on the same terraces. Very few died, a lot more got hurt and tens of thousands got adrenalin rushes the like of which young people today never get. When this was replaced by OTT policing and rigid segregation, we lost a lot of our civil rights, the injuries got worse for those involved and the odd person still got killed. Then 95 people died because of this segregation and loss of civil rights and OTT policing.

I preferred the anarchy, but for politicians it was all a matter of social control first, everything else second. Watching Football nowadays is like sucking a sweet through the outside of a packet by comparison.

 

[Jungleee]

BNW, I agree that most incidents prior to Thatcherite policing involved just a few people fighting and loads of 'extras' like you and me on the fringes. If the ones fighting for one side ran or walked away, then their extras ran even faster and the other side's extras ran after them. Once or twice when running away I decided to stop and, yes, the other side's extras stopped running after me.

Basically, we had to learn to live with opposing fans and find a way of co-existing on the same terraces. Very few died, a lot more got hurt and tens of thousands got adrenalin rushes the like of which young people today never get. When this was replaced by OTT policing and rigid segregation, we lost a lot of our civil rights, the injuries got worse for those involved and the odd person still got killed. Then 95 people died because of this segregation and loss of civil rights and OTT policing.

I preferred the anarchy, but for politicians it was all a matter of social control first, everything else second. Watching Football nowadays is like sucking a sweet through the outside of a packet by comparison.

Sweeping statement!

 

[Pengwern]

Jungleee, where do today's generation get their adrenalin from, given that obesity rates are so high, unsupervised play is so rare, playing fields have all but disappeared & only middle class kids can afford activity holidays.

A bit sweeping, I agree, but what is the information to the contrary?

 

[Jungleee]

Jungleee, where do today's generation get their adrenalin from, given that obesity rates are so high, unsupervised play is so rare, playing fields have all but disappeared & only middle class kids can afford activity holidays.

A bit sweeping, I agree, but what is the information to the contrary?

Hmm well I disagree, you can still get adrenaline out of football matchdays. I'd wager that you get even more adrenaline with the much higher risk of getting caught. But I won't continue with this..

I'm sure if someone is creative enough they can get adrenaline from various activities such as adventure etc...

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

BNW, I agree that most incidents prior to Thatcherite policing involved just a few people fighting and loads of 'extras' like you and me on the fringes. If the ones fighting for one side ran or walked away, then their extras ran even faster and the other side's extras ran after them. Once or twice when running away I decided to stop and, yes, the other side's extras stopped running after me.

Basically, we had to learn to live with opposing fans and find a way of co-existing on the same terraces. Very few died, a lot more got hurt and tens of thousands got adrenalin rushes the like of which young people today never get. When this was replaced by OTT policing and rigid segregation, we lost a lot of our civil rights, the injuries got worse for those involved and the odd person still got killed. Then 95 people died because of this segregation and loss of civil rights and OTT policing.

I preferred the anarchy, but for politicians it was all a matter of social control first, everything else second. Watching Football nowadays is like sucking a sweet through the outside of a packet by comparison.

I do believe you have tried to 'hi-jack' my post.

I did not / do not get my 'rushes' from chasing up and down Waterloo Road gesticulating at opposing fans.

My 'rushes' came from following 'my' team, in 'my' football stadium. It was the football and sense of belonging which I went for. Of course the team were pretty decent in the seventies, which helped. Plus, I didn't have to jump through Jez's hoops to get in the ground in the first place, or take out a small loan to pay for entry.

I never saw myself as an 'extra' as you put it. Incidentally, there were a couple of times when we 'rescued' opposition fans from our own 'hard men'

I have tried to give a (non-political) account of my experiences following the club in the seventies, related to the documentary being discussed.

You may have preference for 'anarchy'.

My preference was/is for the football and the club, both of which have been royally $$$$ed up by Greed, politics and just plain incompetence.

 

[Burton Wolf]

Hmm well I disagree, you can still get adrenaline out of football matchdays. I'd wager that you get even more adrenaline with the much higher risk of getting caught. But I won't continue with this..

I'm sure if someone is creative enough they can get adrenaline from various activities such as adventure etc...

I'd agree with this. I'm 53 and have been through the 70's/80's/90's/00's and now the 10's and I still get plenty of adrenaline from going to football matches.

 

[Big Nosed Wolf]

It's an absolutely brilliant series, I've really enjoyed watching it. After watching this week's episode, my wife (both of us were born in the late 60s) looked over at me and said "bloody hell, maybe Thatcher was what Britain needed at that time after all" and then we both went silent as I was thinking the same thing! That's quite a turnaround for us! Really thought provoking and entertaining.

Like most political ideologies and 'swings' it tends to go from one knee-jerk reaction to another.

Many unions in the seventies were governed by the power-crazy who had found their fifteen minutes.

My father was a union member and worked at the huge Rubery Owen factory in Darlaston/Kings Hill until 1974.

I remember the hardships caused by frequent strikes from the mid sixties onwards. No money came into the house and caused much tension between my mother and father. After one six week lay off for more pay- which my father had voted against in the usual show of hands - he told me that only him and one other put their hands up for the against, even though prior to the vote the majority had said they would vote against striking. The reality was that they were intimidated into voting for strike action, and just went with the flow. An easy life???

My father left the Union and was 'blackballed' with him spending the last few years there, 'being sent to Coventry' It didn't worry him that hardly anyone 'spoke' to him though. As he said, 'They all talk a load of $$$$$$$$ anyway'.

And so came Thatcher with another ideology which caused more mayhem and destructuion to the social fabric. None more so than selling Council houses, the legacy of which can be seen in todays waiting lists and homelessness.