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Loan Thread 2023/24

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giantwolf

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lets all have a disco said:
I bet it nearer 20 players who at some point have been out of loan this season...granted about half are kids.....

Sorry to derail you thread a bit ...as you do a good job.....it's a full time job for you keeping up , which probably gives me a bit of credibility in what I'm saying...it's out of control and needs trimming...
Click to expand...

We’ve had 33 individual loans for 25 players over the season

20 are current
 
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giantwolf said:
We’ve had 33 individual loans for 25 players over the season

20 are current
Click to expand...
So come may that's another 20 players on the payroll full time....and realistically about 3 or 4 could offer the first team something next season....that's not dishing you or dishing most of the kids ...just pointing out where the club has a big opportunity to cut back and bring some funds in over the summer, without starting on the first team squad ....
 
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lets all have a disco said:
So come may that's another 20 players on the payroll full time....and realistically about 3 or 4 could offer the first team something next season....that's not dishing you or dishing most of the kids ...just pointing out where the club has a big opportunity to cut back and bring some funds in over the summer, without starting on the first team squad ....
Click to expand...
6 to 7 will be let go

Hodge/cundle/silva/sasa/guedes/podence/bolla

Decisions need to be made

Mosquera is definitely coming back for first team
 
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lets all have a disco said:
I bet it nearer 20 players who at some point have been out of loan this season...granted about half are kids.....

Sorry to derail you thread a bit ...as you do a good job.....it's a full time job for you keeping up , which probably gives me a bit of credibility in what I'm saying...it's out of control and needs trimming...
Click to expand...

Except as you know as I’ve mentioned it before… on this topic I don’t strictly agree

With the exception of Silva, Guedes, Kalajdzic & Podence, the rest of the 20 are relatively young and relatively cheap, frankly probably nothing more than a pimple on a gnats bum in terms of the total wage bill (not to mention the fact that in many cases the wages will be covered, so would be cost neutral).

The loan system is there so they can develop, learn their trade and grow - either into an income for us or a player for us. I really don't see the issue here.

With the likes of Silva, Guedes, Kalajdzic & Podence, the loan system is there, so they can put themselves in the shop window, whilst having much of their wages covered, possible loan fee. They are surplus to requirements, so the loan is the best system. We aren't holding onto them for the sake of it, we're loaning them out as NO ONE wants to buy them currently. All being well, a loan will attract some suitors and they will be sold.

I don't see the issue here either - I'd rather we did that than take a fee at 50% of their value just to get rid of them or leaving them to "rot" in the reserves
 
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Silva and guedes are reminants of a previous regime and we're doing what we can given the situ. Silva had to be given a chance this season. Sasa is unfortunate but was a panic buy, had serious injury issues before he signed, and is a good player in the wrong team.

Podence played for us for years then caused problems with his attitude. Can't fault the club here.

Not all transfers work and the loan system helps deal with that. All 4 of the players would absolutely be sold given the right deal and all will have much of their wages covered.

Every other player is a youngster and basically irrelevant to our wage issues.
 
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I'll only say this one more thing - I think this year is an exceptional year, so in that respect I agree there are a lot.

However this is because we're on our 3rd manager in 24 months, that means there will be players who aren't wanted, we have to lon them out.

The u21s/academy have been more fruitful than ever and there has been a larger crop than normal who have the potential to go on and make footballers - therefore they deserve their chance to show it out on loan in order to secure moves for them (and an income for us) or develop to try and push for the first team. We've moaned for years the academy not producing players, now we've got loads, some are complaining again!
 
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Fosun and his hobbs haven't gone to the lengths they have either cutting back in the last 12 months , with FFP etc, to allow 25 players to go out on loan next season, regardless off there status....if you are out on loan currently then potentially you could could be moved in in the summer .....you can't pick who you want to leave
 
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lets all have a disco said:
Fosun and his hobbs haven't gone to the lengths they have either cutting back in the last 12 months , with FFP etc, to allow 25 players to go out on loan next season, regardless off there status....if you are out on loan currently then potentially you could could be moved in in the summer .....you can't pick who you want to leave
Click to expand...

Haven’t you just contradicted your own argument. As far as I can tell over the past 24 hours or so, you've basically been saying we've too many out on loan and need to be more clinical and get rid of people rather than loaning them out?

And yet in your last sentence, you've just said "you can't pick who you want to leave". as a reason why loads are out on loan and might be again next season ........ that's precisely WHY there are loans out. In an ideal world we'd have got rid of Silva, Guedes, Podence etc but NO ONE wants to pay for them at a price that makes it acceptable.... therefore you loan them out a) to save costs, b) so they can hopefully perform and maximise a return if someone does eventually buy them.
 
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giantwolf said:
Haven’t you just contradicted your own argument. As far as I can tell over the past 24 hours or so, you've basically been saying we've too many out on loan and need to be more clinical and get rid of people rather than loaning them out?

And yet in your last sentence, you've just said "you can't pick who you want to leave". as a reason why loads are out on loan and might be again next season ........ that's precisely WHY there are loans out. In an ideal world we'd have got rid of Silva, Guedes, Podence etc but NO ONE wants to pay for them at a price that makes it acceptable.... therefore you loan them out a) to save costs, b) so they can hopefully perform and maximise a return if someone does eventually buy them.
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is there will be cutbacks ...yes you can't pick who goes...so people thinking say Yerson is in the plans , it might change if he is the only one we have a bid for, for example....

Off course we loan players out to reduce costs as a temporary measure.....you probably hope it will be permanent though with the majority...
 
Minimalist

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lets all have a disco said:
Fosun and his hobbs haven't gone to the lengths they have either cutting back in the last 12 months , with FFP etc, to allow 25 players to go out on loan next season, regardless off there status....if you are out on loan currently then potentially you could could be moved in in the summer .....you can't pick who you want to leave
Click to expand...
You kinda can often choose who you want to leave, you just perhaps have to except a smaller fee than you might have hoped.
 
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Our business model now is as much about player trading as development for the first team. It's difficult sometimes to understand the strategy behind every single player but i would imagine increasing their market value is always of paramount importance regardless.
 
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Minimalist said:
You kinda can often choose who you want to leave, you just perhaps have to except a smaller fee than you might have hoped.
Click to expand...
Yes but that's my whole point...Plan A will be to raise as much funds as possible from the loan players and use for first team player......as I say potentially all could be up for sale , cause they are currently not helping the first team.
 
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lets all have a disco said:
Yes but that's my whole point...Plan A will be to raise as much funds as possible from the loan players and use for first team player......as I say potentially all could be up for sale , cause they are currently not helping the first team.
Click to expand...
Yes, I don’t think a club would ever expect the youth setup or loaned out players to ever have a high hit rate to producing first team players. However you only need the occasional Toti (first team player) or Mir (decent fee) to make it all worth while.
 
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In my opinion, the loan system has saved us from points deductions for FFP breaches for several years, with Silva, Guedes, Podence and now Sasa going out on loan.

There are two groups of players out on loan.
  1. Those whose purchase was for immediate First Team inclusion, who for one reason or another, aren't first teamers this year.
  2. Academy proteges who may or may not eventually make the first team.
Loaning those out in group 1 removes their wage cost, but we still take the financial hit on writing down their transfer cost. The hope for this group is that they either get back into first team contention or attract suitable bids. Getting back into contention isn't all down to the player, at a club that has had 5 different managers since the out break of Covid. Playing regularly at least stops their eventual transfer value hitting zero.

Group 2 cost almost nothing, their wages are covered and if there was a fee paid it's peanuts. The players in group 2, get loaned ideally to teams in higher leagues each year and their value increases accordingly. So what if a youngster who cost nothing and whose wages have been paid for by many clubs over many years is still here and being loaned out? Not all loans go to plan and a good final year loan could add £10m+ to an eventual fee, why else didn't we sell Morgan Gibbs-White for £5m.

That mega sale proves the Loan system works.

This is one of the best threads on the Mix.

Long may this thread and the loan system exist, it gives us all a chance to share in loan players' dreams or nightmares.
 
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@Madmalc I think there is a third group and those are players that were never acquired for the first team but part of the player trading who with a bit of development can hopefully be sold on at a profit (Kawabe, Campana, Sang Bin, Bolla, etc). I suspect Toti was in this group but he progressed so much that he became part of the “Group 1”
 
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giantwolf said:
Haven’t you just contradicted your own argument. As far as I can tell over the past 24 hours or so, you've basically been saying we've too many out on loan and need to be more clinical and get rid of people rather than loaning them out?

And yet in your last sentence, you've just said "you can't pick who you want to leave". as a reason why loads are out on loan and might be again next season ........ that's precisely WHY there are loans out. In an ideal world we'd have got rid of Silva, Guedes, Podence etc but NO ONE wants to pay for them at a price that makes it acceptable.... therefore you loan them out a) to save costs, b) so they can hopefully perform and maximise a return if someone does eventually buy them.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't bother arguing mate, it's a waste of your time.
 
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Aurum Lupus said:
I'd actually counted Fabio as 1st team rather than youth, not Chiquinho, but you're right with him too. Maybe Mosquera could be counted as well. But that's a long way off the worrying number of 17, which I do appreciate wasn't your statement. The rest are all still in development and should be expected to be out gaining experience to come back or be sold. Once broken down the numbers are far more palatable than was being made out.
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Yeah, I was just listing them out - it's easier to have a discussion with the players in front of you. Clearly, we want to move those senior players on...we're just trying to get them in the shop window and hoping that their play dazzles some teams to maximize what we can get. Normally, we would have gotten some takers for Guedes, but his knee injuries have held him back.

Those younger players on the cusp - thinking of Hoever, Fabio, Cundle, and maybe Hodge - we'll be looking for them to either step up to the first team soon or we'll move them on. Kind of like we did with Giles and Sanderson.

I'm not too fussed about the youngsters going out on loan - that's what we should be doing for them. Players like, Moulden, Lembikisa, LonWijk, Campbell - we need to see if they can make the step up to men's football. There were some hopes around Marques and Corbeanu, but they never really kicked on and we let them go. Too bad Fraser wasn't able to head out on loan - it would have been really good for him to be honing his striking craft in a lower league.

I really think that Chiquinho and Mosquera are in our plans - they both needed game time to come up to speed to the levels they we require.
 
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There are basically 2 types of loans, ones to develop young players, and ones to put unwanted players in the shop window. I'm still not convinced we get the majority of our development loans right, but we are managing to sell players so they must be working to a point.

At the same time, i do think we need to move players on if possible a little more quickly. I see potential in players like Hoever and Chiquiniho, but i cant see a future for them here. Same with the likes of Hodge and Cundle. Ronan was the same, multiple loans without him really setting the world on fire. Dont think it does the player much good tbh.
 
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Great match in my opinion from Yerson Mosquera. The Colombian did not have an easy task against Samu, and he has been very confident in defense and with the ball at his feet. He already appeared against Barça as a full-back, and today as a center-back he has been very good.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1756332732416663847
 
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Podence scored today as well. It is actually very impressive having some of our loanees at what are pretty big clubs - Olympiacos, Villarreal, Frankfurt, Rangers. Interesting watching all the highlights too.

There is another dimension where Podence for JRB, Guedes for Neto, Fabio for Sarabia and Sasa for Fraser is how we lined up second half today, whilst Mosquera came on for Semedo towards the end rather than Doherty. We probably still lost though.
 
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Saturday 10th February

As discussed, Yerson Mosquera played 80 mins and Goncalo Guedes came on as a 74th minute sub as Villarreal drew 1-1 away at Alaves




Sasa Kalajdzic was missing from Frankfurt’s 1-1 draw vs Bochum due to becoming a father. Congratulations Sasa and partner

Luke Cundle and Ki Jana Hoever both came on after 60 mins in an attempt to rescue the game for Stoke, however the score remained 3-1 to Blackburn

Joe Hodge made his first start for QPR playing 66 mins as they drew 2-2 at home to Norwich. Joe was getting plenty of positive comments

Louie Moulden made his Northampton debut coming on at half time for their injured first choice. Northampton drew 1-1 at home to Bolton. Plenty of positive comments for him also. Louie is from Bolton and had loads of mates in the away end giving him verbals. His brother is also Bolton kit man







Nigel Lonwijk came on in the 56th minute to make his debut for Wycombe in their 5-2 win over Peterborough. Chem Campbell was an unused substitute for the second game running

Harry Birthwhistle retained his place in the Oxford City starting line up but was subbed off at half time in their 7-1 loss away at Dagenham & Redbridge

Ethan McLeod came off the bench with 15 left to play and provided an assist as Alvechurch won 4-2 away at Long Eaton

Owen Hesketh made his first Kidderminster start playing 69 mins as they exited the FA Trophy conceding in the last minute losing 1-0 away at Peterborough Sports

Daniel Podence scored in a 90 minute appearance as Olympiacos beat Crete 4-0

Chiquinho played 88 mins and was booked again as Famalicao drew 1-1 away at Farense

Fabio Silva played 90 mins, scored and was booked as Rangers beat Ayr 2-0

https://twitter.com/x/status/1756431046986309648
 

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Silva had Rangers' 2nd lowest rating on BBC player rater feature, despite scoring. Yikes
 
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