Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics

[SsgWolf]

with all the subjective opinion on here as to who is a good striker and who isn't I thought I would look up the goals per game ration of our current squad over their careers. I know it means nothing really, but I thought it would be an interesting academic exercise:

Qualification is at least one goal every 10 games.

Fredy Eastwood 0.38
SEB 0.38
Michael Kightly 0.29
Stephen Elliot 0.23
Andy Keogh 0.22
Jay Bothroyd 0.18
Lewis Gobern 0.13
Seyi Olofinjana 0.11
David Edwards 0.11
Kevin Kyle 0.11

I know that some players have scored a lot of goals in the lower leagues, but I still think it shows who has an eye for goal... And a couple who don't.

Interestingly if we need a goal on sunday, and bring on Kevin Kyle with 10 minutes go, we had better hope the ref plays injury time until 6.30am on Monday morning.

 

[Del Woppio]

Have a look at the top scorers from Leagues 1 and 2 over the last 5 years, and you'll see that consistent goals in the lower leagues don't equate to consistent goals in the top two tiers. If you want pertinent statistics, look at their records for either the top two leagues, or for Wolves. But that would negate your point, somewhat.

 

[Wolv3nsam]

Try doing statistics for goals scored in this league to make it fair? We don't play in League One.

 

[The Vicar]

Interestingly if we need a goal on sunday, and bring on Kevin Kyle with 10 minutes go, we had better hope the ref plays injury time until 6.30am on Monday morning.

a complete misunderstanding of what the Big Man on at the end of a game offers. It is not about the goals they score per se, but about creating havoc in the box. Big Kev does that very well in my opinion.

 

[SsgWolf]

Have a look at the top scorers from Leagues 1 and 2 over the last 5 years, and you'll see that consistent goals in the lower leagues don't equate to consistent goals in the top two tiers. If you want pertinent statistics, look at their records for either the top two leagues, or for Wolves. But that would negate your point, somewhat.

I don't have a point. That's why I called the thread what I did. I just thought it was interesting. You don't have to turn everything into a battle between opposing sides.

 

[SsgWolf]

a complete misunderstanding of what the Big Man on at the end of a game offers. It is not about the goals they score per se, but about creating havoc in the box. Big Kev does that very well in my opinion.

Well we agree to differ. ImHO he is the worst player I have ever seen at any level. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF!

 

[Wolv3nsam]

Well we agree to differ. ImHO he is the worst player I have ever seen at any level. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF!

I personally stand by the fact that Kyle has been a good addition to the squad. We were all apprehensive when he came as his reputation with Coventry fans came with him - but you have to admit he has proved you wrong. I know there are better target men out there; but he has come in, done his job and I'm sure has proved at least the minority of the fans who were apprehensive about him wrong. Fair play.

I like having a target man on the bench anyway as a plan B, don't know about you. Our squad is primarily full of short arses (Jarvis) or fairly well built blokes who are fairies in the air (Olofinjana)

 

[brummywolf]

Kyle has been very poor since he came here apart from his contribution v Charlton and perhaps the Crystal Palace game- although I wasn't at that game. The other games where he has been brought on he has been very ineffecive and he wins so little in the air for a so-called target man. We would have been better off keeping Bothroyd.

 

[Wolv3nsam]

Kyle has been very poor since he came here apart from his contribution v Charlton and perhaps the Crystal Palace game- although I wasn't at that game. The other games where he has been brought on he has been very ineffecive and he wins so little in the air for a so-called target man. We would have been better off keeping Bothroyd.

I believe at Ipswich he whipped a cross or two in and brought some balls down, it's just that nobody was on the end of them. One cross in particular was very dangerous and was similar to the one at Charlton.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Didn't someone say on the Darren Wrack Thread that Kyle was wanting the ball played to him "to feet" ? Gives the impression that that's how he likes the ball played to him. In the way of using his strength/weight to hold off his defender.

 

[brummywolf]

I just think thatthere is a danger that some people are overplaying Kyle's overall contribution since he joined on the basis of that cross against Charlton- granted, it was a great moment- but on the whole he has been, as expected, disappointing.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

I just think thatthere is a danger that some people are overplaying Kyle's overall contribution since he joined on the basis of that cross against Charlton- granted, it was a great moment- but on the whole he has been, as expected, disappointing.

Maybe because everyone expects him to want the "hoofball" when he prefer to outmuscle his defender?

 

[Atlas 1951]

Didn't someone say on the Darren Wrack Thread that Kyle was wanting the ball played to him "to feet" ? Gives the impression that that's how he likes the ball played to him.

Pretty incisive stuff, there, Dewsbury...

 

[Wolv3nsam]

I just think thatthere is a danger that some people are overplaying Kyle's overall contribution since he joined on the basis of that cross against Charlton- granted, it was a great moment- but on the whole he has been, as expected, disappointing.

You overplay Bothroyd's contributions, can't we do the same for Kyle?

 

[brummywolf]

But isn't that the reason we signed him? An out-and-out target man to hoof the ball towards in the last ten minutes? If not, then why didn't we just stick with Bothroyd?

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Pretty incisive stuff, there, Dewsbury...

Not my work Atlas, check the Thread mate. It seems even MM's been playing him wrong.

 

[ProudWolf]

I just think thatthere is a danger that some people are overplaying Kyle's overall contribution since he joined on the basis of that cross against Charlton- granted, it was a great moment- but on the whole he has been, as expected, disappointing.

The same as some people overplay Bothroyd's contribution? What did he do when he had all those starts in December? Absolutley nothing. At least Kyle look likes he cares when he comes on for his five minutes, which is hardly enough time to say he has been disappointing. Kyle is a far more reliable target-man to bring on and wont shirk any physical battles with centre halves unlike Bothroyd who used to go missing when the game got physical and drift into wide areas where he would be largely anonimous.

 

[Atlas 1951]

It was the way you managed to deduce something that had apparently been stated explicitly by the player himself that made me laugh.

 

[Wolv3nsam]

But isn't that the reason we signed him? An out-and-out target man to hoof the ball towards in the last ten minutes? If not, then why didn't we just stick with Bothroyd?

That is why we signed him, yes, but I would get a bit $$$$ed if the ball was being hoofed up to me constantly as well. Kyle looks as if he gives a toss and has a point to prove, Bothroyd fannies about on the left wing and tries fancy flicks. It's no surprise that he has barely been involved at Stoke since he left.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

It was the way you managed to deduce something that had apparently been stated explicitly by the player himself that made me laugh.

He wants to be played like that (by all accounts) but MM doesn't seem to want him played that way. In what way am I stating the obvious that MM isn't seeing?

 

[Toon Wolf]

Didn't someone say on the Darren Wrack Thread that Kyle was wanting the ball played to him "to feet" ? Gives the impression that that's how he likes the ball played to him.

Pretty incisive stuff, there, Dewsbury...

Not sure how you can draw that conclusion there Dewsbury!

 

[Toon Wolf]

He wants to be played like that (by all accounts) but MM doesn't seem to want him played that way. In what way am I stating the obvious that MM isn't seeing?

Not trying to antagonise you DW as you are one of the more reasonable posters on here, but just read to yourself what I highlighted in bold in my other reply and I think you may realise why both Atlas and I found it a bit amusing.

 

[Wolv3nsam]

Basically DW you stated the obvious a bit.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

HE wants the ball played to him like that but MM must be telling the other players to bang it up to his head. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

At Championship level only (including substitute appearances):

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake: 33 goals in 85 games (0.39 goals per game)
Stephen Elliott: 24 goals in 94 games (0.26 goals per game)
Andy Keogh: 13 goals in 61 games (0.21 goals per game)
Jay Bothroyd: 26 goals in 123 games (0.21 goals per game)
Freddy Eastwood: 14 goals in 72 games (0.19 goals per game)
Kevin Kyle: 18 goals in 108 games (0.17 goals per game)
Stephen Ward: 3 goals in 47 games (0.06 goals per game)

 

[Dewsburywolf]

At Championship level only (including substitute appearances):

Sylvan Ebanks-Blake: 33 goals in 85 games (0.39 goals per game)
Stephen Elliott: 24 goals in 94 games (0.26 goals per game)
Andy Keogh: 13 goals in 61 games (0.21 goals per game)
Jay Bothroyd: 26 goals in 123 games (0.21 goals per game)
Freddy Eastwood: 14 goals in 72 games (0.19 goals per game)
Kevin Kyle: 18 goals in 108 games (0.17 goals per game)
Stephen Ward: 3 goals in 47 games (0.06 goals per game)

$$$$ Eastwood off and keep Elliott then judging by those stats.

 

[Del Woppio]

Yeah, but Freddy only gets 5 minutes at a time, aye it?

 

[SsgWolf]

can you take the subs out dutch? it will control for micks mismanagement and favouritism.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

can you take the subs out dutch? it will control for micks mismanagement and favouritism.

Deutsch not Dutch. Germany not Holland.

Kids hey whatever happened to Education, Education, Education?

 

[rincewind]

Suggests that Keoghs goalscoring is better than many think.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

Suggests that Keoghs goalscoring is better than many think.

Yeah and he'd have even more if he wasn't so "lightweight" and had more composure in front of goal.

 

[jrpb-3]

Always difficult to make these comparrisons as it's easy not to compare like with like e.g
Ward was playing on the wing for a lot of those not as a striker though so you'd expect his figures to be lower. (not that low I'll grant you)

for Freddy a lot of his appearances for this season have been late substitutions, a better comparrison would be Seb This season with Freddy last season.

Previous years were at a lower level so you expect him to score more
e.g. SGB scored over 50 twice in the lower divisions, but didn't get close to that at this level, so I reckon you have to reduce Freddys goal at lower level by a similar margin

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

for Freddy a lot of his appearances for this season have been late substitutions, a better comparrison would be Seb This season with Freddy last season.

a) The "late substitutions" thing with Freddy is a bit of a myth, someone dug up the stats a while back and he got at least half an hour in the vast majority of substitute appearances that he had.

b) SEB has 23 league goals this season, Freddy got 11 league goals last season.

 

[glasgowwolf]

I always think strikers stats should not include Penalties.

It would be interesting to see all of the stats from open play.

A far better indication to a players strike rate

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I always think strikers stats should not include Penalties.

It would be interesting to see all of the stats from open play.

A far better indication to a players strike rate

I'll just go and trawl through the highlights of Coventry's 2001/2002 season then, just to check if any of Bothroyd's goals were from the penalty spot.

 

[Dewsburywolf]

I always think strikers stats should not include Penalties.

It would be interesting to see all of the stats from open play.

A far better indication to a players strike rate

SEB's got 2 of them for us. Not sure about his 11 for PAFC.

 

[glasgowwolf]

I'll just go and trawl through the highlights of Coventry's 2001/2002 season then, just to check if any of Bothroyd's goals were from the penalty spot.

cheers DW

 

[Dewsburywolf]

I'll just go and trawl through the highlights of Coventry's 2001/2002 season then, just to check if any of Bothroyd's goals were from the penalty spot.

Useless get missed V Derby last season. I remember the night well as some scrote did for my car stereo the same night.

 

[bod101]

The same as some people overplay Bothroyd's contribution? What did he do when he had all those starts in December? Absolutley nothing. At least Kyle look likes he cares when he comes on for his five minutes, which is hardly enough time to say he has been disappointing. Kyle is a far more reliable target-man to bring on and wont shirk any physical battles with centre halves unlike Bothroyd who used to go missing when the game got physical and drift into wide areas where he would be largely anonimous.

bothroyd used to get brought on to play in wide positions by the manager and is a very creative player who would get isolated but certainly didn't shirk and when holding the ball up was pretty effective but he is a different type of player to kyle, who i also think has a use deployed in a different capacity more like a battering ram.

 

[SsgWolf]

kyle is a championship clogger centre halfs dream.

chris morgan, jason de vos and co like nothing better than someone of their size to battle against in the air. even better if that someone provides no goal threat whatsoever.