Kilman keep or sell?

[Scallywolf]

He was really poor today.

Up against a big lump of a striker, who can’t trap a bag of cement, Max made Ellis Simms look good!

 

[Perton Wolf]

He was really poor today.

Up against a big lump of a striker, who can’t trap a bag of cement, Max made Ellis Simms look good!

Baffling how a CB so big has no idea how to use his size to his advantage.

 

[Wall heath Wanderer]

Watching the highlights again (I like pain), the thing that strikes me for Cov’s winning goal is how Kilman just remains stationary and puts his arms behind his back hoping to get a miraculous block from 5 yards away.

For gods sake run at the player, close him down and block the shot like your life depends on it. Don’t give him an inch of space and don’t put your arms behind your back to make yourself a sitting duck.

Dendonker did exactly the same thing vs Watford for their equaliser in the semi, Deja vu.

That reminded me of when John Terry threw his face in the way of a shot at ground level, he may be a bit of a ****, but they don't make defenders like that anymore.

 

[BCWolf]

Unless you want to sell RAN and/or Gomes, Max absolutely needs to be the first one sold.

 

[GY Wolf]

How is he captain?

 

[lostwolf]

I’m happy to say Max has proved me wrong, he’s another that GON has progressed in my eyes. I’d still like him to be a bit more aggressive/dominant at times but he’s had a very good season on the whole.

One thing that frustrates me (and with the other CB’s) is with their size and with the ball delivery we have, they should all be more of a threat off set pieces.

This. Next.

Let's not judge our lads on single games where we're lacking any attack.

 

[Rubberball]

This. Next.

Let's not judge our lads on single games where we're lacking any attack.

Can I judge his ability on all the games I've watched instead?

If so, he's too timid, too passive, not vocal enough and lacks aerial domination and strength.

Other than that he's great.

Turning down £30m for him seems complete madness to me.

 

[thommo1984]

Just far too many brain dead moments for me.

Simms open goal miss was classic Max. Every other defender in world football does what they can to stop that ball being played across the goal mouth. Max runs back and gets to this position then literally stops and pulls out and lets the ball go across him!



I’ve said before he’s a very odd footballer, regardless of the whole captain material debate. Can’t be easy to play alongside and certainly isn’t a calming influence.

 

[Slothmonkey]

Watching the highlights again (I like pain), the thing that strikes me for Cov’s winning goal is how Kilman just remains stationary and puts his arms behind his back hoping to get a miraculous block from 5 yards away.

For gods sake run at the player, close him down and block the shot like your life depends on it. Don’t give him an inch of space and don’t put your arms behind your back to make yourself a sitting duck.

Dendonker did exactly the same thing vs Watford for their equaliser in the semi, Deja vu.

This is my take. For their winner he is to far away and just stands. He actually gets in Bueno's way who is trying harder to get across and block it.

This goal for me is exactly the same as the goal we conceded against Man United. Mainoo's, I since watched both back and for me Max at fault for both. In both to passive in different ways but he is still in both turning away, today turns away from the block and shows the cov player where to put it. United he turned put of the tackle.

For both the lead up was also very poor at stopping the ball across from our right. Especially for the winner, I thought Gomes was poor in that moment too.

 

[Mugwump]

Never changed my opinion that i think we could replace him with a player as good for less money than we sell him for. If he could get a bit of physicality and aggression in his play he would go to the next level, but i dont think he ever will. At almost 27, i cant see it happening.

 

[Royal wolf]

Looking back in the thread stats suggest hes won the ball in defensive third 3rd most times and coming second in winning Ariel duels. To me that shows physicality he’s apparently missing. Yes he’s not perfect but he’s a good defender, I also think he’s replaceable but not as easily as some seem to think.

 

[Fenrir_]

Just far too many brain dead moments for me.

Simms open goal miss was classic Max. Every other defender in world football does what they can to stop that ball being played across the goal mouth. Max runs back and gets to this position then literally stops and pulls out and lets the ball go across him!

View attachment 41226

I’ve said before he’s a very odd footballer, regardless of the whole captain material debate. Can’t be easy to play alongside and certainly isn’t a calming influence.

He did it at Newcastle for the second goal. Sa got a lot of blame (and could have done better) but the only reason it got to Sa is Kilman let it run rather than take control and clear it himself. He's a good footballer and very classy on his day, seems to lack a defender's instinct though and a sheer bloody mindedness to just get in the way

 

[Pseudonym]

He’s far too passive. It’s a personality trait as much as it is a football one.

When not flanked by an experienced and vocal ‘lead by example’ type of defender (eg Dawson), he’s timid and doesn’t portray the leadership qualities to marshall & rally the team when things are tough/tense.

He's a good footballer, terrific on the ball and highly skilled (much more than a CB is usually) but he’s no captain and he needs complimentary defenders with him that provide something he never will be able to give.

You either cash in on him now or surround him with vocal, physical experience.

 

[WorcesterWanderer]

Didn't want him to go but after yesterday... Take an offer and reinvest elsewhere.

 

[Evthewolf]

Watching the highlights again (I like pain), the thing that strikes me for Cov’s winning goal is how Kilman just remains stationary and puts his arms behind his back hoping to get a miracu block from 5 yards away.

For gods sake run the player, close him down and block the shot like your life depends on it. Don’t give him an inch of spacedon’t put your arms behind your back to make yourself a sitting duck.

Dendonker did exactly the same thing vs Watford for their first goal in the semi, Deja vu.

My thoughts exactly. A Dawson type throws himself at the player to try and block. Strange how you recalled the Dendonker debacle for comparison because that’s what I was thinking.

In their minds, they are basically saying, I’ll show you that much of our goal, if you’re good enough, put it in. Problem being, both times, they were good enough. That’s not do or die defending, it’s lazy.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Lost without Dawson next to him.

£40m I’d get rid and buy someone for half the price.

Never captain material. Cost us our biggest game in years

 

[Boss Hogg]

Cost us our biggest game in years

Think O’Neil did to be fair. Should have gone back to a 5 with Docherty in the centre and gone man to man in midfield with just Chiwome as an outlet.

 

[wolfgar]

I would seriously consider selling for £35 million plus tbqh? He’s obvs very talented, but I think is still fairly replaceable (perhaps more so than others)? His sale would also be a massive boost to us in terms of FFP. Could easily fund a couple of decent signings and we’ll also have Mosquera returning to the fold too.

 

[Don Corleone]

Wouldn’t be actively looking to sell him but if a decent offer gets tabled then I’d let him go. Captaincy needs to be given to Lemina though imo as I don’t see a leader in Max. A good player yes but not a captain in my view.

 

[sedgwolf1980]

The least Maximillian Maximillian in the world.

Like when people call their pet Pug Tyson.

 

[Rubberball]

I would seriously consider selling for £35 million plus tbqh? He’s obvs very talented, but I think is still fairly replaceable (perhaps more so than others)? His sale would also be a massive boost to us in terms of FFP. Could easily fund a couple of decent signings and we’ll also have Mosquera returning to the fold too.

Could sell Kilman for that price and sign Harwood-Belis on loan or Tosin on a free and then integrate Mosquera into the team.

Buy Maartsen or Tierney for LB, move RAN forward to play in the front 3 and go and get Fofana from Chelsea on loan.

Could even go and get a proper young right back and still have change from the sale.

 

[wolfgar]

Could sell Kilman for that price and sign Harwood-Belis on loan or Toxin on a free and then integrate Mosquera into the team.

Buy Maartsen or Tierney for LB, move RAN forward to play in the front 3 and go and get Fofana from Chelsea on loan.

Could even go and get a proper young right back and still have change from the sale.

I’m sure we’ll have plenty of targets in mind, but this is exactly the sort of approach we should be taking IMV

 

[steve vena]

Unless you want to sell RAN and/or Gomes, Max absolutely needs to be the first one sold.

I agree.

 

[Wignall 3-0]

Super centre back. Keep Keep Keep.

 

[Incognito]

Cash in. Bring back Yerson and line up someone to replace Dawson (and don't say Santiago Bueno is that replacement cos he's not!!).

 

[OLDGOLD]

He’s far too passive. It’s a personality trait as much as it is a football one.

When not flanked by an experienced and vocal ‘lead by example’ type of defender (eg Dawson), he’s timid and doesn’t portray the leadership qualities to marshall & rally the team when things are tough/tense.

He's a good footballer, terrific on the ball and highly skilled (much more than a CB is usually) but he’s no captain and he needs complimentary defenders with him that provide something he never will be able to give.

You either cash in on him now or surround him with vocal, physical experience.

I think this is pretty much nail on the head. The problem is, with Dawson out Max has to be the senior defender and captain, and I'm not sure that is really his game. I imagine At Dawsons age he will play less and less. Santiago needs a leader alongside him at least at the moment, and next season even with improvement Yerson will not be the finished article. So, if we move him on, we need someone who is more of a leader, in other words z 5 years you get Dawson, and I am not sure we will get that for less money than we sell Max for

 

[Eastern Wolf]

I think this is pretty much nail on the head. The problem is, with Dawson out Max has to be the senior defender and captain, and I'm not sure that is really his game. I imagine At Dawsons age he will play less and less. Santiago needs a leader alongside him at least at the moment, and next season even with improvement Yerson will not be the finished article. So, if we move him on, we need someone who is more of a leader, in other words z 5 years you get Dawson, and I am not sure we will get that for less money than we sell Max for

Dawson is 33. Silva at Chelsea is 40. Dawson is only a pup . He's got plenty left in the tank.

 

[Werewolf of Wombourne]

I wouldn't want to sell Max at all but he makes the most sense from a PSR point of view as anything we get will be pure profit. He's probably the most easily replaced as well.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

If we keep Kilman we need to keep playing 3 Central Defenders. He just can’t play in a 4 unless the team is set up in a low block and the midfield doesn’t stray too far forward. He’s played in a 5 and in a 4 with multiple different Centre Halves and in a 5 he looks very good but as soon as we move to a 4 it’s an absolute car crash. I think the issue is his communication, or lack of it and also him not being willing to be too physical. In a back 3 he can focus on his job and area of the field but as soon as he has to be more mobile laterally it turns to ****. Also he needs to stop playing statues in the middle of a game.

To be honest if someone came in with £40m or even £35m I’d sell.

 

[Ginger Chimp]

According to TalkSPORT (I know), Max is on their radar “to fix their defensive issues”.

 

[JadeWolf]

Realistically for a club where we are, every player has a value when we just couldn’t turn it down. Personally if someone’s offering £40m or more for Max that’s great value for someone we paid £30k for.

 

[DJLWolf]

Realistically for a club where we are, every player has a value when we just couldn’t turn it down. Personally if someone’s offering £40m or more for Max that’s great value for someone we paid £30k for.

I'm a big Max fan and have never understood the criticism he gets, but I tend to agree with this.

Neto would be the one to sell for me ideally this summer (although I appreciate I could get pelters for that) to raise funds because we just can't get him on the pitch enough and that will only get worse as he moves through his 20s.

If we're looking at our other most saleable assets, I would rather sell Max than Ait, Gomes or Cunha for example.

He would be easier to replace I think.

 

[JadeWolf]

I'm a big Max fan and have never understood the criticism he gets, but I tend to agree with this.

Neto would be the one to sell for me ideally this summer (although I appreciate I could get pelters for that) to raise funds because we just can't get him on the pitch enough and that will only get worse as he moves through his 20s.

If we're looking at our other most saleable assets, I would rather sell Max than Ait, Gomes or Cunha for example.

He would be easier to replace I think.

Feels like the right time to let Neto spread his wings and move. Plus his value for us won’t ever be as high as it is now.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Feels like the right time to let Neto spread his wings and move. Plus his value for us won’t ever be as high as it is now.

Same for Max? Iv got a weird feeling this summer could bring some big moves away but we need to keep some players not sell everyone but Jeff Shi nothing surprises me. I don’t mind letting the likes of Neto, Kilman and Gomes leave but we have to replace them otherwise we will end up like Everton or Luton scrapping for every game. If we sell 5/7 of this team the fans will be disillusioned about our trajectory with price rises on the cards again

The revolving door on players can be exciting but look at the likes of Leeds and Forest we need to get the balance right. Fully trust Hobbs though

 

[JadeWolf]

Same for Max? Iv got a weird feeling this summer could bring some big moves away but we need to keep some players not sell everyone but Jeff Shi nothing surprises me. I don’t mind letting the likes of Neto, Kilman and Gomes leave but we have to replace them otherwise we will end up like Everton or Luton scrapping for every game

Maybe, I suppose the difference is Neto is one more big injury away from the top sides not wanting to touch him.

I guess the positive is, for me personally, I’m very confident Hobbs will be able to identify and sign proper replacements for whoever leaves.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Maybe, I suppose the difference is Neto is one more big injury away from the top sides not wanting to touch him.

I guess the positive is, for me personally, I’m very confident Hobbs will be able to identify and sign proper replacements for whoever leaves.

Absolutely spot on. Let’s not look at players leaving as a bad thing. We could do a brighton and improve

 

[JadeWolf]

Absolutely spot on. Let’s not look at players leaving as a bad thing. We could do a brighton and improve

Unless you’re a top, top level club, you almost have to sell players. But yeah if you do it properly you can keep improving even with players leaving.

 

[DJLWolf]

Unless you’re a top, top level club, you almost have to sell players. But yeah if you do it properly you can keep improving even with players leaving.

I think Hobbs came out and did an interview where he said we could certainly see a couple of first teamers move on, so I personally expect 2 out of Max, Ait, Neto, Gomes, Semedo or Sa to move on, probably at the very least.It is too early for Cunha realistically.

Ultimately I hope that it's O'Neil's decision which ones and not Jeff's!

 

[Slothmonkey]

If they offer 30 mil and above, I would bite their hand off. You can get two top cbs for that in the markets we seem to be looking in.

I am overly harsh on Kilman but I like my defenders to defend first. The bring the ball out being a good passer can follow. For me Max gets caught out with the basics. If he were Semedo he would of got a lot more criticism then he has.

If we can get 30 million. I reckon we can get a centre back from Brazil, France or Germany in for half the price to replace him.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

If they offer 30 mil and above, I would bite their hand off. You can get two top cbs for that in the markets we seem to be looking in.

I am overly harsh on Kilman but I like my defenders to defend first. The bring the ball out being a good passer can follow. For me Max gets caught out with the basics. If he were Semedo he would of got a lot more criticism then he has.

If we can get 30 million. I reckon we can get a centre back from Brazil, France or Germany in for half the price to replace him.

Danso or Sangante for example would cost half of Max and be just as good?! Don’t forget Mosquera coming back like a new signing