Karl Henry on Refs

[BlahBlah]

I’ve been coaching grassroots football in Birmingham for the past 3 years. Let me tell you, the level of officiating is disgusting. In my experience, 80% of grassroots refs are power hungry do-gooders who are either intent on showing everybody who the boss is for 90 mins or are completely incompetent and unfit for the job.

5. Remove unofficial linesmen from grassroots football and let referees make the call to the best of their ability. This will stop arguments and fighting between teams as 99.9% of parent/coach linesmen in grassroots football are cheating scoundrels. Everybody knows it and everybody does it (apart from ours of course ).

Discuss......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721879273844117888

 

[Flump]

Ridiculous, logically incoherent drivel.

The criteria needs to be higher at grassroots level? Great, now there's no refs at all instead of mediocre refs.

He says he wants to move away from the old boys club, but his suggestion is the involvement of more ex footballers? Can he not join two thoughts together in his head?

Grassroots refereeing is a completely different issue from PL refereeing (and VAR especially, obviously). Why has he mentioned it? Presumably the same reason FA reports love to mention it, to sound thoughtful, and because it's easier to talk about that with meaningless jargon than coming up with real solutions to the actual problem.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Don’t agree with his point 5 but there is much to support in the rest of it. Worth reading the thread on X before commenting rather than just going on the OP extract.

 

[WolvesAndCows]

Getting rid of linesmen would just hurl more abuse at referees. The people running the line when I was playing were pretty honest.

 

[Jefe]

He has a point about linesmen. At amateur level, they will usually be a substitute from each team. Some amateur linos are fair, I always tried to be, but many of them are blatant cheats who would happily flag an opposition forward who has five yards onside; I have seen multiple on-field bust ups over this. I don't think leaving it to the referee is the solution however.

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

Well said Karl

 

[AndyWolves]

I don't know who would want to be a ref, unless they've got a tremendously huge ego

 

[Jonzy54]

I remember doing a Sunday League game a few years back .The one AR was smoking a fag and not only that he was smoking weed .I stopped the game and told him to put it out and he said he would do what he wants whereupon he told me to **** off and threw my flag in the canal .It was a lower league Sunday game and ‘his’tean didn’t have any subs .I was in my rights as per the competition rules to insist that they remove a player to run the line but instead I chose to sit deeper and pick up the offsides myself .Club linesmen were often the bane of my life,but I wasn’t alone .

 

[Southdownswolf]

So I presume that he's going to go head on with the PGMOL and use his fantastic career as a footballer to infiltrate them and become a top ref himself?

Thought not.

 

[maws]

80% is way too high, I’d say 33% are poor or power hungry, my lads been MJPL and floodlit level for 5 years now, so normally get refs who will do mens Saturday games


I’ll compare it to my job where at least the same figure, 33% of my work colleagues are crap. So yeah it’s just human average I’m afraid

 

[BlahBlah]

He has a point about linesmen. At amateur level, they will usually be a substitute from each team. Some amateur linos are fair, I always tried to be, but many of them are blatant cheats who would happily flag an opposition forward who has five yards onside; I have seen multiple on-field bust ups over this. I don't think leaving it to the referee is the solution however.

Some of my funniest moments have been watching pub team linesmen.

I saw one once......a player gathered the ball in his own penalty box and dribbled up the pitch, he chipped it into the other half and sprinted after it, clean through. Not only that, he took another touch and as he approached the penalty area the linesman flagged him offside. I can still hear the screams now, even the ref just stood there and said "you just can't do that".

Another one was our manager, in grudge matches he'd take the flag himself and cheat them all match. If anybody complained about him he'd rip his shirt off and go on the pitch offering to fight the lot of them.

 

[BlahBlah]

He says he wants to move away from the old boys club, but his suggestion is the involvement of more ex footballers? Can he not join two thoughts together in his head?

I remember when Steve Claridge argued that managers in charge of transfer budgets had to be an ex-player, because they "knew the game".
The woman he was arguing with said "that's like arguing the boss of Royal Mail has to be an ex-postman because he knows how to deliver a letter".

 

[Perton Wolf]

I’ve been coaching grassroots football in Birmingham for the past 3 years. Let me tell you, the level of officiating is disgusting. In my experience, 80% of grassroots refs are power hungry do-gooders who are either intent on showing everybody who the boss is for 90 mins or are completely incompetent and unfit for the job.

5. Remove unofficial linesmen from grassroots football and let referees make the call to the best of their ability. This will stop arguments and fighting between teams as 99.9% of parent/coach linesmen in grassroots football are cheating scoundrels. Everybody knows it and everybody does it (apart from ours of course ).

Discuss......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721879273844117888

Let's be honest, he's a moron of the highest order.

 

[Perton Wolf]

I don't know who would want to be a ref, unless they've got a tremendously huge ego

Some of us just enjoy facilitating a game of kids/grassroots football and keeping them all safe on the pitch. I don't see how that translates to having a huge ego.

 

[Slothmonkey]

Referee's have one of the hardest jobs in football as they are not going to please everyone.

Grassroots, when I coached a Sunday league team we has some god awful referee's and linesmen. That was part of it and it kept the costs down not having to pay for proper linesmen etc

For me, this all comes down to the fact now in the Premier league. You have a system where if you as a referee have made a call like the ones we had against us, like the liverpool offside, it can be checked by var, multiple angles. If after being shown from several angles it's wrong and you still stick to your originally decision. You need to be either punished as your corrupt or re-trained because your incompetent.

In my line of works we have audits and if one of my staff made an error as regularly as these referee's have been they would be put on a capability review. They know what to do and how to do it but choosing not too.

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

Yay let's all go after refs at grassroots level, just what we need to encourage more of

Some people need to chill out and realize that it's a GAME, and refs are humans.

 

[Perton Wolf]

Ridiculous, logically incoherent drivel.

The criteria needs to be higher at grassroots level? Great, now there's no refs at all instead of mediocre refs.

He says he wants to move away from the old boys club, but his suggestion is the involvement of more ex footballers? Can he not join two thoughts together in his head?

Grassroots refereeing is a completely different issue from PL refereeing (and VAR especially, obviously). Why has he mentioned it? Presumably the same reason FA reports love to mention it, to sound thoughtful, and because it's easier to talk about that with meaningless jargon than coming up with real solutions to the actual problem.

Agreed, Henry is clueless and to be honest, some of what he's posted is insulting to young grassroots refs getting paid a pittance to put up with a lot of ****.

There's not enough refs at the lower levels how it is, his ridiculous suggestions would make it worse and result in more non-refs having to officiate games, which can open a whole can of worms.

 

[Jonzy54]

An ex Wolves player( who shall remain nameless )used to run the line for one of the top sides in the Wolverhampton Sunday League .He would always flag the opposition offside and they used to moan like hell.
At the end of one game ,as we were walking back he was called out by the opposition and he admitted ‘ Yes I cheated today, I cheated last week and I will cheat again next week’
That’s what you had/ have to contend with regarding club AR’s

 

[Perton Wolf]

An ex Wolves player( who shall remain nameless )used to run the line for one of the top sides in the Wolverhampton Sunday League .He would always flag the opposition offside and they used to moan like hell.
At the end of one game ,as we were walking back he was called out by the opposition and he admitted ‘ Yes I cheated today, I cheated last week and I will cheat again next week’
That’s what you had/ have to contend with regarding club AR’s

Shouldn't have club AR's in adult grassroots football, causes loads of issues. Understand that means clubs stumping up more money but it would be worth it.

I find most parents to be fair enough with the kids games and if I don't think they are then I'll just overrule them anyway (assuming I'm in a position to do so).

 

[Norway Wolves]

Getting rid of linesmen would just hurl more abuse at referees. The people running the line when I was playing were pretty honest.

I've reffed loads without a linesman, and to be honest it works fine.

Offisde of course is difficult but get the right angle and you are OK. Helps alot if you have played the game to read body language and understand how players react in certain situations.

 

[lets all have a disco]

Some of my funniest moments have been watching pub team linesmen.

I saw one once......a player gathered the ball in his own penalty box and dribbled up the pitch, he chipped it into the other half and sprinted after it, clean through. Not only that, he took another touch and as he approached the penalty area the linesman flagged him offside. I can still hear the screams now, even the ref just stood there and said "you just can't do that".

Another one was our manager, in grudge matches he'd take the flag himself and cheat them all match. If anybody complained about him he'd rip his shirt off and go on the pitch offering to fight the lot of them.

It was part and parcel of Sunday football...big games you needed YOUR linesman.......we used to pay one on the big occasions....he said it was offside , it was offside.....

 

[Sanewolf]

TBH nearly everything he has said there is accurate, I still play at Grassroots level (infact played against Karl on saturday) and overall the standard of refereeing is dreadful and it needs a complete overhaul. Until we can entice ex players to move into refereeing the standard wont get better anytime soon.

The biggest problem at pro level and grass roots level is that the refs have never played the game to a high level and as a result dont understand situations from a playing view point.

Someone made a really good point on his thread about players that are released from academy at a late age should be given an option of joining a fast track referee course. This would improve standard and quantity of refs but it would also give released players a new opportunity and a new career pathway.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

TBH nearly everything he has said there is accurate, I still play at Grassroots level (infact played against Karl on saturday) and overall the standard of refereeing is dreadful and it needs a complete overhaul. Until we can entice ex players to move into refereeing the standard wont get better anytime soon.

The biggest problem at pro level and grass roots level is that the refs have never played the game to a high level and as a result dont understand situations from a playing view point.

Someone made a really good point on his thread about players that are released from academy at a late age should be given an option of joining a fast track referee course. This would improve standard and quantity of refs but it would also give released players a new opportunity and a new career pathway.

I think the last paragraph sounds great in theory but in practise those players released at academy level will still fancy themselves to have a professional playing career albeit lower in the pyramid so that will always be the prize

 

[Ian]

Remember when I was coaching at youth level and having to provide a Linesman( person).
Used to be a nightmare , no one would volunteer " Don't know the rules" was the common response or they'd sit in their cars till kick-off.
When you did eventually find someone ( sucker) all the others that turned you down were suddenly experts and give the poor guy dogs abuse while walking the line behind him..... worst job in football, at least the ref's were getting paid.

 

[Sanewolf]

I think the last paragraph sounds great in theory but in practise those players released at academy level will still fancy themselves to have a professional playing career albeit lower in the pyramid so that will always be the prize

Oh I agree 100% mate, the focus for most will still to be focus on a playing career. However, thousands of players are released from clubs all over the country every year, even if 2% of those released players go on to become high level refs it will be a benefit to the system.

 

[Ewok vs Wolf]

Theres nothing worse on a Sunday morning when the linesman is a coach from olthe opposing team and takes the **** with the flag

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Remember when I was coaching at youth level and having to provide a Linesman( person).
Used to be a nightmare , no one would volunteer " Don't know the rules" was the common response or they'd sit in their cars till kick-off.
When you did eventually find someone ( sucker) all the others that turned you down were suddenly experts and give the poor guy dogs abuse while walking the line behind him..... worst job in football, at least the ref's were getting paid.

I’ve ended up with the flag every week for my lads team from U7s to now u16s, so a lot of games. You’re bang on with it, no one volunteers but are quick to offer an opinion (both home and away parents). I’ve had dogs abuse at times as they’ve got older but most the time I’ve just turned round and laughed at them or simply offered them the flag to see if they want to do it. I’ve never intentionally given a wrong decision and play it with a straight bat). Had a game last season where an opposition parent was seriously mouthing off, ref was brilliant told him if he didn’t leave he’d be abandoning the game. The Herbert in question was then trying to fight me, parents of his own team all whilst his kid was pleading with him to leave. This was 10 mins into the first half after the game he was waiting for me in the car park lol. All over kids football.

 

[Bostin]

Is this going to be a TV series like Ross Kemp on Gangs?

 

[Munich_Wolf]

I’ve ended up with the flag every week for my lads team from U7s to now u16s, so a lot of games. You’re bang on with it, no one volunteers but are quick to offer an opinion (both home and away parents). I’ve had dogs abuse at times as they’ve got older but most the time I’ve just turned round and laughed at them or simply offered them the flag to see if they want to do it. I’ve never intentionally given a wrong decision and play it with a straight bat). Had a game last season where an opposition parent was seriously mouthing off, ref was brilliant told him if he didn’t leave he’d be abandoning the game. The Herbert in question was then trying to fight me, parents of his own team all whilst his kid was pleading with him to leave. This was 10 mins into the first half after the game he was waiting for me in the car park lol. All over kids football.

Wtf is wrong with people

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

Wtf is wrong with people

The crazy thing is it was all over a corner! It’s a shame as this guys kid looked distraught about his dads behaviour. I couldn’t believe it when he was waiting for me on the car park after. I laughed at him at the time but when I got home I thought someone with a different demeanour that could have affected them awfully.

 

[Jefe]

Remember when I was coaching at youth level and having to provide a Linesman( person). Used to be a nightmare , no one would volunteer " Don't know the rules" was the common response or they'd sit in their cars till kick-off. When you did eventually find someone ( sucker) all the others that turned you down were suddenly experts and give the poor guy dogs abuse while walking the line behind him..... worst job in football, at least the ref's were getting paid.

Getting abuse from idiots is bad, but the worst thing about doing the right thing and volunteering to run the line, is there's very chance you'll be lumped with it for 90 minutes. You do it with the tacit agreement that your gaffer is a decent chap who will reward with some time off the bench. Instead, he conveniently forgets you're there because you're thirty yards away. Happened a lot to me when I was young.

 

[WolvTown]

I don't know who would want to be a ref, unless they've got a tremendously huge ego

According to "The Wisdom of Psychopaths:" The Top 10 Jobs That Attract Psychopaths.

1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (Television/Radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergy person
9. Chef
10. Civil servant
11. Premier League Referee.

 

[Contrarian]

Some of us just enjoy facilitating a game of kids/grassroots football and keeping them all safe on the pitch. I don't see how that translates to having a huge ego.

This is probably more about Karl Henry's ego.

 

[Perton Wolf]

TBH nearly everything he has said there is accurate, I still play at Grassroots level (infact played against Karl on saturday) and overall the standard of refereeing is dreadful and it needs a complete overhaul. Until we can entice ex players to move into refereeing the standard wont get better anytime soon.

The biggest problem at pro level and grass roots level is that the refs have never played the game to a high level and as a result dont understand situations from a playing view point.

Someone made a really good point on his thread about players that are released from academy at a late age should be given an option of joining a fast track referee course. This would improve standard and quantity of refs but it would also give released players a new opportunity and a new career pathway.

The old "get ex-players refereeing" point is so hilariously bad, most of them don't fully understand the LOTG when they are actually playing, let alone when they retire or stop playing. Why would they necessarily be any better? Much more to it than just getting or having a "feel" for the game.

Your point that I've highlighted in bold is often used to try and justify dangerous tackles that endanger the safety of players, heard it a million times before.

We need more refs but we need people from all backgrounds, not just ex-players. Besides, many of those released from academies at a late age will go on to play decent standard at semi pro.

 

[Surrey Wolf]

Theres nothing worse on a Sunday morning when the linesman is a coach from olthe opposing team and takes the **** with the flag

Or on a saturday afternoon.

 

[Perton Wolf]

"Let's get ex-pros in the VAR room"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722357077136281718

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722359886971822461

 

[Dubwolf71]

"Let's get ex-pros in the VAR room"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722357077136281718

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722359886971822461

Was watching a game a couple of weeks ago. Ref gave a free kick and yellow card. Gerry Armstrong in commentary says a very harsh yellow. 10 seconds later after watching the replay he says that he was lucky it wasn't a red.

These guys know even less than the referees. They get away with contradicting themselves and yet are put up there as experts because they played the game.

 

[wolvesjoe]

"Let's get ex-pros in the VAR room"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722357077136281718

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722359886971822461

Thats a tricky one for me, its clumsy rather than reckless.
The FCK player actually pushed Rashford's leg into the position where his foot came down on his ankle.

Think that should be a yellow, no matter how wonderful it is to watch Utd imploding.

 

[Sanewolf]

The old "get ex-players refereeing" point is so hilariously bad, most of them don't fully understand the LOTG when they are actually playing, let alone when they retire or stop playing. Why would they necessarily be any better? Much more to it than just getting or having a "feel" for the game.

Your point that I've highlighted in bold is often used to try and justify dangerous tackles that endanger the safety of players, heard it a million times before.

We need more refs but we need people from all backgrounds, not just ex-players. Besides, many of those released from academies at a late age will go on to play decent standard at semi pro.

I find this a strange reply Perton. You are right, most players don't know all of the LOTG, to be honest most fans don't know all of the LOTG. The point is that if a ex player (of any level) did a course to learn and understand all of the LOTG then they would have the potential to make a very good referee.

You also mention that ex players would make good refs is a line used to justify dangerous tackles and I do not believe this is true, or if it is then it certainly wasn't the reasoning as to why I made the point. A ex player becoming a referee can only be a good thing, they understand the pace of the game, they understand the tactics of the game, they understand the difference between a cynical foul and a dangerous play, they have literally been in the same situation as the situation they are making a decision on. Its not about justifying a dangerous tackle its about knowing the game, at Grass roots level it is very clear when you get a referee who has never played the game as they dont fully understand the match, they understand the rules but not the game.

You also make a point that many of those released will go on to have a good career in the semi pro world...... You are right many will and good luck to them. On the other hand not everyone will, being able to offer a different career path that could be lucrative (if they get to the top) can only be a benefit right? Most players will pursue a career in football following a release from an academy and good luck to them but not everyone will and I believe offering them a referee career would be beneficial to everyone.

Also, what happens when non league players dont make it? They get dropped from academies, have a career in non league and then get dropped by non league clubs what then? They have no income, they have no huge premier league salary, what do they do? Again, it is about giving them the option, another path is available if they want it.

 

[Flump]

I would've thought that the success of managers such as Mourinho and Wenger would show that you don't need to have played the game to be able to understand the game.