Is VAR a specifically English/British problem

[Wolves in Limerick]

I pose that question because I don't have a particular interest in Continental football. Being a supporter of Wolves and the English game one is only too well aware of the problems it has caused and accentuated. I don't hear of similar problems in other leagues but than I'm not particularly interested in them. Following the introduction of VAR one of the Irish newspapers poked fun at the problems being experienced in the English game and suggesting it had not been problematic on the Continent. Is that true and if so any ideas why?

 

[JadeWolf]

I reckon like most technology, it depends on the competence of the people using it. To a man the officials in the premier league are absolute morons.

 

[Jawwfc]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783239170493968644

Seem to have the same issues on the continent as we do, it's killing the game.

I'm for goal line technology and AI offside calls but what we have now is a complete **** show.

 

[old wittonian]

I reckon like most technology, it depends on the competence of the people using it. To a man the officials in the premier league are absolute morons.

When we were in Europe that fact stood out like a beacon.
The refs we had were very competent.

 

[JadeWolf]

When we were in Europe that fact stood out like a beacon.
The refs we had were very competent.

Even now when you watch the champions league, the referees have much more authority and presence than our lot. They make mistakes too of course they do but the referees in the premier league are an embarrassment. They really are.

 

[marrs-guitar]

When we were in Europe that fact stood out like a beacon.
The refs we had were very competent.

The VAR didn't intervene to order a retake of Raul's missed penalty vs Sevilla. Their defender encroached and then cleared the rebound before Raul could get to the ball. It was a clear situation where a retake had to be reordered but the VAR and referee were asleep.

VAR seems universal in the ****ness of its implementation in all honesty. I doubt there's a single country where the fans are generally in favour of it.

 

[Munich_Wolf]

Read an article from a journalist familiar with the league that argued VAR helped contribute to the assaults of Refs in Turkey.

Reffing/decisions have become worse across the board to a greater or lesser degree, all at the same time and there is one common denominator.

In fact I've just read a post by a German BVB fan which could have been written by anyone on here...
- subjective bias
- hates VAR even when decisions go their way
- not enjoying going to matches because you don't know if any on pitch decision will stand
- inconsistency and contradictory decisions
- getting involved in decisions that aren't clear and obvious
- undermining refs because they don't have the confidence to make correct decisions and defer to VAR


Thats 100% identical to many opinions on here and should put to bed the frankly ridiculous notion that we need foreign refs.

VAR is killing the game, full stop

 

[JadeWolf]

Read an article from a journalist familiar with the league that argued VAR helped contribute to the assaults of Refs in Turkey.

Reffing/decisions have become worse across the board to a greater or lesser degree, all at the same time and there is one common denominator.

In fact I've just read a post by a German BVB fan which could have been written by anyone on here...
- subjective bias
- hates VAR even when decisions go their way
- not enjoying going to matches because you don't know if any on pitch decision will stand
- inconsistency and contradictory decisions
- getting involved in decisions that aren't clear and obvious
- undermining refs because they don't have the confidence to make correct decisions and defer to VAR


Thats 100% identical to many opinions on here and should put to bed the frankly ridiculous notion that we need foreign refs.

VAR is killing the game, full stop

I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest that referees from other countries would be better. Foreign players and coaches have made the premier league so much better. Why are we still stuck with this idea that the referees should be English? It means instead of some of Europe or the world’s best, we’re stuck with the likes of Coote and Attwell.

 

[DanishWolf]

It's used here in the Danish league, but much more sparingly than in the PL. Its mostly used for clear and obvious errors..as intended.
Doesn't mean there hasn't been controversy of course, and it's not very popular here either. But it doesn't take centre stage as often here as in the PL.

Also means that when my local team Brøndby scores, I still have the joy of immediate celebrations where as with Wolves I now pause until I'm absolutely sure.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

VAR is a problem anywhere and everywhere it is used. Goal line technology is fine, but from the day of its inception I said that this would ruin the game, though even I didn’t realise to what extent it would do so. I am fed up of hearing Webb say that VAR is not re-refereeing the game when that is exactly what it is doing.

Nottingham Forest had a blatant penalty turned down at Everton, why didn’t VAR send the referee to the screen.

Everton scored a perfectly good goal last night against Liverpool, yet VAR spent an age looking for something wrong with it.

Liverpool had a perfectly good goal disallowed at Tottenham, the player was on side, why didn’t VAR help the referee out.

Coventry City were awarded a penalty against Manchester United for handball, yet a similar situation at Goodison Park on the same day was not a penalty.

Wolves scored a perfectly good goal against West Ham United, yet it was disallowed because a Wolves player was stood in front of the goalkeeper.

I have just mentioned a few incidents when this abomination failed to do what it was meant to do. VAR is a stain on the game, and should be scrapped immediately, but of course it won’t be.

Webb will be be defending his officials saying they got decisions right.

R.I.P football.

 

[Munich_Wolf]

I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest that referees from other countries would be better. Foreign players and coaches have made the premier league so much better. Why are we still stuck with this idea that the referees should be English? It means instead of some of Europe or the world’s best, we’re stuck with the likes of Coote and Attwell.

And you think all the world's best refs (but only the best) just want to uproot their lives to come and ref in England?

If the very same argument the world over against VAR, maybe some of our refs are slightly worse, maybe they're slightly better, but new rules and adaptations of rules to pander to VAR and the undermining of refs because of it has lead to the standard of refereeing dropping everywhere, not just England

 

[Wolf316]

Even now when you watch the champions league, the referees have much more authority and presence than our lot. They make mistakes too of course they do but the referees in the premier league are an embarrassment. They really are.

It’s hilarious watching the English teams in Europe diving all over the place and being ignored.

 

[Ned]

I’ll never have a rational conversation about this as I feel too strongly about it.

It’s a plague on the sport and has become a death sentence. All this “people who are using it” rubbish is exactly that: rubbish - it’s trying to bring a black and white set of rules to a game that has been and always will be one of opinion and open to interpretation.

The sport will die, atmosphere will die, crowds will be full of people “watching” instead of “supporting” and it will be zero fun for anybody with a polite applause to celebrate moments of brilliance.

 

[Perton Wolf]

When we were in Europe that fact stood out like a beacon.
The refs we had were very competent.

That's because they're the pick of the bunch from the whole continent.

Other European countries have many of the same issues we do with VAR, to be honest. It's just a **** system.

 

[JadeWolf]

And you think all the world's best refs (but only the best) just want to uproot their lives to come and ref in England?

If the very same argument the world over against VAR, maybe some of our refs are slightly worse, maybe they're slightly better, but new rules and adaptations of rules to pander to VAR and the undermining of refs because of it has lead to the standard of refereeing dropping everywhere, not just England

Players and coaches do.

 

[Watfordfc]

Probably helps other counties use semi automated offside which must make a difference?

Apparently in European games handball for example are seen differently to here.

Surely everyone should play by the same rules ?

 

[Perton Wolf]

Players and coaches do.

This has been raised before and I believe that UEFA wouldn't allow us to have the pick of the refs from the continent anyway.

Besides, you'd hate some of the handballs that are given by VARs in Europe, you'll suddenly start to think that Attwell isn't so bad!

 

[Munich_Wolf]

I’ll never have a rational conversation about this as I feel too strongly about it.

It’s a plague on the sport and has become a death sentence. All this “people who are using it” rubbish is exactly that: rubbish - it’s trying to bring a black and white set of rules to a game that has been and always will be one of opinion and open to interpretation.

The sport will die, atmosphere will die, crowds will be full of people “watching” instead of “supporting” and it will be zero fun for anybody with a polite applause to celebrate moments of brilliance.

I agree, said last night that what we'll be left with is a large amount of the match going public being tourists wearing half and half scarves and filming the match on their ****ing phones

 

[Very Proud (AKA Still Proud)]

PGMOL is the problem, VAR (the technology) is the tool. Give an F1 car to a boy racer and they'll crash and burn. It's the arrogant, incompetent fools of PGMOL and their media sycophants that are the problem. Disband them and things I'll start to get better.

 

[wulfie88]

 

[Mile End Wanderer]

I don’t think it’s ridiculous to suggest that referees from other countries would be better. Foreign players and coaches have made the premier league so much better. Why are we still stuck with this idea that the referees should be English? It means instead of some of Europe or the world’s best, we’re stuck with the likes of Coote and Attwell.

I often do wonder if the orders come from fifa

 

[the genius]

It's supposed to be the solution to all our refereeing woes, but in reality, it's become a nightmare for the beautiful game. Instead of enhancing fairness, it's killing the spontaneity and flow of football.

First off, the constant interruptions for VAR reviews disrupt the rhythm of the game. We've all seen goals disallowed or penalties awarded after lengthy delays, sucking the joy out of celebrations and leaving players and fans frustrated. It's like watching a game with a pause button that referees abuse

Moreover, VAR's decisions often lack consistency. What's a handball one day is deemed acceptable the next. This inconsistency undermines the credibility of the sport and leaves us fans scratching our heads in disbelief.

Let's not forget the offside calls that require scrutinizing millimeter measurements, stripping goals from teams for the tiniest infractions that have little impact on the game. Football should be about skill and excitement, not about forensic analysis of players' body positions.

In short, VAR is more trouble than it's worth. It's time for football authorities to rethink its role or, better yet, scrap it altogether. Let's bring back the passion, unpredictability, and joy that made us fall in love with the game in the first place

 

[Watfordfc]

It's supposed to be the solution to all our refereeing woes, but in reality, it's become a nightmare for the beautiful game. Instead of enhancing fairness, it's killing the spontaneity and flow of football.

First off, the constant interruptions for VAR reviews disrupt the rhythm of the game. We've all seen goals disallowed or penalties awarded after lengthy delays, sucking the joy out of celebrations and leaving players and fans frustrated. It's like watching a game with a pause button that referees abuse

Moreover, VAR's decisions often lack consistency. What's a handball one day is deemed acceptable the next. This inconsistency undermines the credibility of the sport and leaves us fans scratching our heads in disbelief.

Let's not forget the offside calls that require scrutinizing millimeter measurements, stripping goals from teams for the tiniest infractions that have little impact on the game. Football should be about skill and excitement, not about forensic analysis of players' body positions.

In short, VAR is more trouble than it's worth. It's time for football authorities to rethink its role or, better yet, scrap it altogether. Let's bring back the passion, unpredictability, and joy that made us fall in love with the game in the first place

As people say it’s too subjective to be perfect and there seem to be so many layers to each rule whereas in other sports it’s very black and white .

 

[Oh When the Wolves]

The process is the same abroad

It has to go at this point . As they are incompetent beyond belief

 

[Stafford]

I reckon like most technology, it depends on the competence of the people using it. To a man the officials in the premier league are absolute morons.

Yeh, but humans can't be trusted to use technology to benefit us cause it moves too fast.

Look at how many people are miserable and addicted to their mobile phones, rather than enjoying themselves.

There is no correct way of using VAR, because football doesn't lend itself to it.
Was that Coventry player offside? Yes
Did Cuhna elbow a player? Yes
Would the same people people implement these decisions in real time?
No.

 

[theweave]

Other than offside (automated, not someone deciding when its kicked) everything is subjective and so var will never work

 

[old wittonian]

Probably helps other counties use semi automated offside which must make a difference?

Apparently in European games handball for example are seen differently to here.

Surely everyone should play by the same rules ?

Those of the PGMOL?

 

[DanishWolf]

The process is the same abroad

It has to go at this point . As they are incompetent beyond belief

I agree it has to go, but the the way its implemented abroad isnt the same everywhere.
As an example, here in Denmark, its only ever used for clear and obvious errors, meaning that we dont have VAR as the centre of attention in most games. But still, as I said, I prefer it to go,

 

[RMNottm]

Everyone believes the tech has no limitations; like there is no frame rate. Why do you not question?

 

[old wittonian]

I agree it has to go, but the the way its implemented abroad isnt the same everywhere.
As an example, here in Denmark, its only ever used for clear and obvious errors, meaning that we dont have VAR as the centre of attention in most games. But still, as I said, I prefer it to go,

Do you have arrogant Prima Donna's as officials?

 

[DanishWolf]

Do you have arrogant Prima Donna's as officials?

Nope, in fact I rarely notice who the ref is, when watching games, which is quite telling.

 

[Norman Bell]

Nope, in fact I rarely notice who the ref is, when watching games, which is quite telling.

I have distant memories of such happy times

I remember the seventies / early eighties where the only real attention seeking incompetent jerk was a bloke called Clive Thomas. A time where if you had George Courtney or Keith Hackett you knew you would get treated fairly. Now I struggle to name any who I think " Well he is not too bad "

 

[SA Wolf]

Not just a British problem, although in other countries, fans and clubs are more vocal and prominent in opposing it. Scandinavian clubs are especially trying to resist it, with some success. Maybe English/British fans could learn from them!

Protest and resist: fans in Scandinavia lead backlash against VAR

Supporters of clubs in Norway have demonstrated against the use of a video assistant referee, while Sweden continues to hold out against introduction

www.theguardian.com

 

[SA Wolf]

I have distant memories of such happy times

I remember the seventies / early eighties where the only real attention seeking incompetent jerk was a bloke called Clive Thomas. A time where if you had George Courtney or Keith Hackett you knew you would get treated fairly. Now I struggle to name any who I think " Well he is not too bad "

And 'our own' Jack The Butcher Taylor.

 

[DanishWolf]

Not just a British problem, although in other countries, fans and clubs are more vocal and prominent in opposing it. Scandinavian clubs are especially trying to resist it, with some success. Maybe English/British fans could learn from them!

Protest and resist: fans in Scandinavia lead backlash against VAR

Supporters of clubs in Norway have demonstrated against the use of a video assistant referee, while Sweden continues to hold out against introduction

www.theguardian.com

Yeah we don't particular like it here. But still at least in Denmark, (I don't watch much Norwegian football) It's been implemented better than in the PL.

 

[DanishWolf]

I have distant memories of such happy times

I remember the seventies / early eighties where the only real attention seeking incompetent jerk was a bloke called Clive Thomas. A time where if you had George Courtney or Keith Hackett you knew you would get treated fairly. Now I struggle to name any who I think " Well he is not too bad "

Two legendary refs right there.
I've especially fond memories of Hackett because as well as being a ref during the era when I fell in love with English football, he was also the ref when I saw Denmark beat Greece 7-1 in a World Cup qualifier in 1989.

I've a funny story about Courtney too. Shortly after WC 1990, I met Danish referee, the late Peter Mikkelsen, who had also been at the WC. He told me Courtney had told him to say hello to Gazza from him. So when Mikkelsen was a ref in the Belgium vs England game there was an incident where Gazza came sprinting up to him to complain loudly. Mikkelsen smiled at him and said "George Courtney sends his regards" leaving Gazza looking completely perplexed. But Mikkelsen then said he had no problems with him for the rest of the game, even though he had to book him.

 

[BlahBlah]

I pose that question because I don't have a particular interest in Continental football. Being a supporter of Wolves and the English game one is only too well aware of the problems it has caused and accentuated. I don't hear of similar problems in other leagues but than I'm not particularly interested in them. Following the introduction of VAR one of the Irish newspapers poked fun at the problems being experienced in the English game and suggesting it had not been problematic on the Continent. Is that true and if so any ideas why?

When it was launched our refs organisation made a number of changes to the tested and validated system that had been used in Australia, which was the whole bloody point of using Australia as a test bed.
It's English exceptionalism...we thought we could do it better, but launched into a method of using it that hadn't been certified, and it had no supporter feedback like they'd taken in Australia. Cue errors, cue criticism, cue loss of confidence...cue blame a system which hadn't even been certified for use in the way we'd used it, because we'd picked and chosen which bits we wanted. The arrogance !

This comes from a premise of English refs being anti-VAR from the start, they did not want it because they said it would undermine their authority on the pitch. If they are then put in charge of implementing it, it's not difficult to see how they can manipulate it and then point to the system as being at fault "you made us do it this way so it's your own fault". They are slowly rooting these peope out, but it's not fast enough.

OK, so now we finally have the TV monitor and forcing a ref to go and have a look which was a concession they could not avoid (as it was in the system and they removed it)....but we do not know what sort of informal guidance they've been given, or what somebody has whispered in their ear beforehand? Are these refs really impartial, when some see their jobs at stake? Should they even be in charge of it?

VAR is currently terrible, we seem to have really badly-adjusted and confused people running it; some of the released audio has been really unprofessional, even thick....when the video operator seems to have more knowledge that the actual adjudicator.
Maybe one of the reasons we don't get real-time audio explaining the decision-making process (which is done very very well in rugby), is because they know they're not up to the job. Why the hell are they not open to scrutiny, some of these decisions can cost millions.
So i think it is above all a cultural issue,...the technology is working OK but the interpretation and decision-making has been abysmal. In that respect it's no different to any job...there are ways to test the quality of decision-making as applied to the real world, and then decide if somebody is suitable for a management job or not. A lot of these refs would not make the standard.

This technology is not going away, time does not run backwards. I would rather we crushed the referees unions and reform it totally. I would double the pay of referees and try and get far smarter and better adjusted people interested in doing the job, whilst understanding the context of the job they're in, like they seem to have done in Europe.

 

[Rabid Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783811716226134521

Seems Sweden had enough of VAR.

 

[Frank Lincoln]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1783811716226134521

Seems Sweden had enough of VAR.

Well done Sweden, now can England please do the same.