Investment.

[inaglasshouse]

For anyone interested in football club debt, there is an interesting article in the Athletic. Focused mainly on Man Utd, and how the Glazers used loans to buy Man Utd, and this debt was passed to the club and remains on Utd’s balance sheet. Unlike the soft loan Wolves had with Fosun (since written off), this is a commercial loan with the club paying the interest charges. To put it into perspective, in the first five years they owned Man Utd, the interest on those loans cost the club a third if it’s revenue. Having since refinanced, the interest burden is less now, but 500m of that original debt remains unpaid.

Explained: Football is awash with debt - but not all of it is bad

Barcelona, Manchester United and Tottenham all have huge debt - but clearly, not all of it is equal

theathletic.com

Because the club could afford it without too much disruption. Now they are finally slipping down the pecking order but I put that down to poor football decisions not lack of finance on the playing side.

 

[Golden_Wolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555481229063077890

Wasn't this the guy who was going at Shi last year and giving it the big un & starting some movement?

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Wasn't this the guy who was going at Shi last year and giving it the big un & starting some movement?

Don’t know. Hadn’t heard of that.

 

[Bawtry Wolf]

Wasn't this the guy who was going at Shi last year and giving it the big un & starting some movement?

Yes. He’s also self published a book about our Chamionship season, it almost impossible to read.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

For anyone interested in football club debt, there is an interesting article in the Athletic. Focused mainly on Man Utd, and how the Glazers used loans to buy Man Utd, and this debt was passed to the club and remains on Utd’s balance sheet. Unlike the soft loan Wolves had with Fosun (since written off), this is a commercial loan with the club paying the interest charges. To put it into perspective, in the first five years they owned Man Utd, the interest on those loans cost the club a third if it’s revenue. Having since refinanced, the interest burden is less now, but 500m of that original debt remains unpaid. The Glazers and their backers have done very well out of their purchase of Man Utd. Not only is the club worth far more now than what they paid, but they have extracted a lot of money from the club:-

“After all, the Glazers have earned at least £500million in dividends, fees, share sales and soft loans from United since 2006.”

Explained: Football is awash with debt - but not all of it is bad

Barcelona, Manchester United and Tottenham all have huge debt - but clearly, not all of it is equal

theathletic.com

Fosun could comfortably done this with our loan as well.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

Yes. He’s also self published a book about our Chamionship season, it almost impossible to read.

I think he is an intelligent guy, but he managed to write a book (in as you say fairly unreadable prose) that discussed himself more than the season.

Think he was also the guy who said he knew everyone who posted on the mix because he had a techy friend or something?

 

[Bill S Preston Esq.]

Yes. He’s also self published a book about our Chamionship season, it almost impossible to read.

I bought it. I gave up on it, owing to how poorly it was written.

 

[De Wolfs Mullet]

Wasn't this the guy who was going at Shi last year and giving it the big un & starting some movement?

He comes across as a complete **** on Twitter

 

[glorybox]

For anyone interested in football club debt, there is an interesting article in the Athletic. Focused mainly on Man Utd, and how the Glazers used loans to buy Man Utd, and this debt was passed to the club and remains on Utd’s balance sheet. Unlike the soft loan Wolves had with Fosun (since written off), this is a commercial loan with the club paying the interest charges. To put it into perspective, in the first five years they owned Man Utd, the interest on those loans cost the club a third if it’s revenue. Having since refinanced, the interest burden is less now, but 500m of that original debt remains unpaid. The Glazers and their backers have done very well out of their purchase of Man Utd. Not only is the club worth far more now than what they paid, but they have extracted a lot of money from the club:-

“After all, the Glazers have earned at least £500million in dividends, fees, share sales and soft loans from United since 2006.”

Explained: Football is awash with debt - but not all of it is bad

Barcelona, Manchester United and Tottenham all have huge debt - but clearly, not all of it is equal

theathletic.com

Despite this Man Utd have still spent a shed load on their playing squad though to achieve the square root of FA. It’s a convenient smokescreen when it suits their entitled fan base.

 

[WolfLing]

For anyone interested in football club debt, there is an interesting article in the Athletic. Focused mainly on Man Utd, and how the Glazers used loans to buy Man Utd, and this debt was passed to the club and remains on Utd’s balance sheet. Unlike the soft loan Wolves had with Fosun (since written off), this is a commercial loan with the club paying the interest charges. To put it into perspective, in the first five years they owned Man Utd, the interest on those loans cost the club a third if it’s revenue. Having since refinanced, the interest burden is less now, but 500m of that original debt remains unpaid. The Glazers and their backers have done very well out of their purchase of Man Utd. Not only is the club worth far more now than what they paid, but they have extracted a lot of money from the club:-

“After all, the Glazers have earned at least £500million in dividends, fees, share sales and soft loans from United since 2006.”

Explained: Football is awash with debt - but not all of it is bad

Barcelona, Manchester United and Tottenham all have huge debt - but clearly, not all of it is equal

theathletic.com

Swiss Ramble also did a thread on this specific subject yesterday.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559412700416991232

He estimates that in total, the Glazers' leveraged buyout has cost United around £1.6 billion so far in interest payments, debt restructuring, dividends, director's remuneration and fees, and share sales.

The numbers are astonishing and show why they've fallen so far behind their competitors both on the pitch, off the pitch and in terms of ground and infrastructure.

Coupled with very poor recruitment over this period, it's no wonder they find themselves where they are.

 

[Sussex Wolf]

Despite this Man Utd have still spent a shed load on their playing squad though to achieve the square root of FA. It’s a convenient smokescreen when it suits their entitled fan base.

The Athletic basically said that the real problem at United was less the money outflow but the poor use of what has been spent, since that is also very significant.

 

[WolfLing]

The Athletic basically said that the real problem at United was less the money outflow but the poor use of what has been spent, since that is also very significant.

As Swiss Ramble points out though, yes United have spent a lot of money (badly).

But all that has come from club generated funds.

So while other owners are injecting capital to fund other things like infrastructure and stadiums, at the same time as keeping their transfer spend competitive, United are just using all their money to pay over-inflated fees for poor signings, while letting everything else rot.

 

[Kashmire Hawker]

We’ve got some more money from Macquarie Bank I see: Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

 

[Northampton_wolf]

we will soon see how much the charge is on 20th August

But this i guess is the way we have funded nunes/guedes

Company Results (links open in a new window)

Date(document was filed at Companies House)	Description(of the document filed at Companies House)	View / Download(PDF file, link opens in new window)
15 Aug 2022	Registration of charge019898230018, created on 10 August 2022 This document is being processed and will be available in 10 days.

 

[YouGottaRaulWithIt]

One of the tweets…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559462512147456000

Another older one with a bit more detail…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555481229063077890

From experience of such matters, if there is any truth to this, then those involved will almost certainly have signed confidentiality agreements to stop them talking until all parties agree to release information, which might be never, if a deal is not reached. Of course people do sometimes gossip, and those who hear snippets and haven’t signed a CA, don’t necessarily feel so compelled to stay silent.

Thank you for sharing... not that I am not implying that you are sharing confidential information of course.

P.s. According to HIGNFY if you use the word 'allegedly' every now and again, you are safe from prosecution.

 

[Deleted member 8455jwf]

We’ve got some more money from Macquarie Bank I see: Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

We owed them £61M i think at end of last season, this really would sour my mood if we've borrowed loads of money to fund this. I think the TV money was only recently paid so I can't imagine it is cashflow.

Worrying.

 

[Wolf in Kenilworth]

We owed them £61M i think at end of last season, this really would sour my mood if we've borrowed loads of money to fund this. I think the TV money was only recently paid so I can't imagine it is cashflow.

Worrying.

Nothing to see here.

It’s potentially actually good news as it means we are keeping our assets like Neves etc for the foreseeable.

A club that doesn’t not have the money in the bank has to get it from somewhere. And a sensibly run club like us will have a plan to pay it off.

We’re also backed by some pretty rich people who can clear any debt they want to in a flash.

 

[Northampton_wolf]

Paperwork done

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559891935631970304

 

[Derbywolf85]

We borrow from Macquarie, every year, without fail.

Nothing to see or be worried about. We use the money to keep the club ticking over. We'll do it again in January.

 

[WKFWolf]

We borrow from Macquarie, every year, without fail.

Nothing to see or be worried about. We use the money to keep the club ticking over. We'll do it again in January.

as do many other teams with their own banks etc. its common practice

 

[WasStefan]

Wasn't this the guy who was going at Shi last year and giving it the big un & starting some movement?

Yes

 

[WasStefan]

Paperwork done

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559891935631970304

Would explain the loosening of the purse strings

 

[Sussex Wolf]

We’ve got some more money from Macquarie Bank I see: Charge - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

As others have noted, it’s normal for us since just after our arrival in the PL, and typical for most PL clubs. It’s cashflow management, recognising that we have lumps of payments and income for past transfers to pay or receive, phased income for tv rights, various fixed outgoings, etc. Macquarie are happy to provide short term commercial loans for such cashflow management. It doesn’t really say anything about the state of our finances or planned expenditure, except that like most clubs, we don’t carry sufficiently large cash on deposit to cover the peaks of our expenditure.

 

[chignalwolf]

One of the tweets…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1559462512147456000

Another older one with a bit more detail…

https://twitter.com/x/status/1555481229063077890

From experience of such matters, if there is any truth to this, then those involved will almost certainly have signed confidentiality agreements to stop them talking until all parties agree to release information, which might be never, if a deal is not reached. Of course people do sometimes gossip, and those who hear snippets and haven’t signed a CA, don’t necessarily feel so compelled to stay silent.

I never liked being involved with the Chinese, even less with Qatari Sports, but that's just me I guess,

 

[Hot Fuss]

I never liked being involved with the Chinese, even less with Qatari Sports, but that's just me I guess,

A few people have said they won’t watch a World Cup in Quatar and others slated Newcastles new owners. Wonder if they will be boycotting Wolves?

 

[Andi130]

Interesting that Guo became the person with significant control on all UK Fosun subsidiaries, including FOYO sports, on the 2nd of August. Not taken control of the Wolves group that I can see though. Might just be a coincidence, but a interesting move with the investment discussion active.

 

[SuperGran]

A few people have said they won’t watch a World Cup in Quatar and others slated Newcastles new owners. Wonder if they will be boycotting Wolves?

Asked that question earlier think many will have a change of heart

 

[Leominster_Wolf]

Interesting that Guo became the person with significant control on all UK Fosun subsidiaries, including FOYO sports, on the 2nd of August. Not taken control of the Wolves group that I can see though. Might just be a coincidence, but a interesting move with the investment discussion active.

Guo became person of significant control in WW 1990 Ltd in Feb 2020

WW 1990 Ltd is person of significant control of Wolverhampton Wanderers FC (1986) Ltd

 

[Andi130]

Guo became person of significant control in WW 1990 Ltd in Feb 2020

WW 1990 Ltd is person of significant control of Wolverhampton Wanderers FC (1986) Ltd

I hadn't twigged that. Thanks for the info.

 

[OLDGOLD]

I never liked being involved with the Chinese, even less with Qatari Sports, but that's just me I guess,

Probably not just you. I am quite risk averse and don't like change, regardless of who is interacting with our club. Some changes are easier to swallow than others, but I will always be a Wolves boy and a Wolves fan, regardless of who our economic custodians are. We are the Wolves. Our owners ...less so..

 

[Eastyorksyeltz]

A few people have said they won’t watch a World Cup in Quatar and others slated Newcastles new owners. Wonder if they will be boycotting Wolves?

Could not forsake Wolves, but will loose a lot of respect and interest, if it turns out to be true. Certainly will not celebrate it the way Newcastle fans have done and cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would do so. Where do you draw the line? Can't pretend I know the answer, but there has to be one.

 

[chignalwolf]

Probably not just you. I am quite risk averse and don't like change, regardless of who is interacting with our club. Some changes are easier to swallow than others, but I will always be a Wolves boy and a Wolves fan, regardless of who our economic custodians are. We are the Wolves. Our owners ...less so..

Agree OLDGOLD., We have seen Good/Bad Owners, Investors, Managers, Players come and go but we will always be here regardless, its OUR club.

 

[chignalwolf]

A few people have said they won’t watch a World Cup in Quatar and others slated Newcastles new owners. Wonder if they will be boycotting Wolves?

As I replied to OLDGOLD, They all come and go but we will be still here at the end, if we agree with it or not,

 

[SanFranWolf]

Does anyone have more information on who the new investors might be?

 

[Bryce]

My understanding is that we are openly looking for new investment although only on the right terms.

I've also been told there's absolutely no pressure to sell from mainland China and my instinct is that Fosun will take us public before divesting themselves of their controlling interest.

Irrespective of Mendes, Wolves are in a very strong position right now and are very investable as a team. The price is very high though (again, as I understand).

There's no shortage of interested parties but Fosun won't compromise on the price.

I think Mendes was disengaged a bit but the club. However I also think his influence with players was completely under estimated and now he has been brought back on board. That , for me is the reason we have ended up with Guedes, Neves staying and Nunes. The project is well and truly back on!

 

[Flump]

Does anyone have more information on who the new investors might be?

There's not even any reliable information that they exist!

 

[Bryce]

We borrow from Macquarie, every year, without fail.

Nothing to see or be worried about. We use the money to keep the club ticking over. We'll do it again in January.

its the football club equivilent of switching your credit card. Not worried at all