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How corrupt is football?

so-called fan

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I'm not convinced it's much more than unconscious bias tbh. That said it happened in serie a not too long ago, so it's possible. If we could just hear the discussion the officials are having it would solve a lot of problems I reckon
Would you consider unconscious bias as cheating or not? And would you be happy for it to keep happening time after time after time, or would you at some point complain about it, and say it must stop?
 

Burford T Justice

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That's all well and good. But flag up or not it gets checked for offside. No need for flag at all. Especially at that point. "Oh i'll wander back to halfway, whoops, meant to flag".
There was a need to flag though as the assistant referee believed Nunes was offside. He was wrong but it's what he thought
 

Snarlingwolf

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This is more or less spot on.

No corruption involved at all and anyone who thinks Dean can take into account the movements of 14 players, track who touches the ball and come up with a conspiracy like that in under 4 seconds probably needs to remove their tin foil hat.

Before VAR the goal wouldn't have stood as the assistant referee incorrectly but genuinely believed Nunes was offside. He didn't flag because they are told not to do until the attacking phase is over. Communication between the AR and the referee is completely normal. He raised his flag end of as far as the on field decision goes whether VAR is there or not.

Only issue and where we got screwed is that VAR wasn't fit for purpose as it didn't cover the area of the pitch correctly. That is something that should be addressed but there was no corruption imo. Just typical Wolves bad luck

A few important facts that you seemed to have ignored is the considerable “history” of Mike Dean; he resides on the Wirral; he has 2 Liverpool Season Ticket Holder sons.

He should never have been appointed by the FA to be the VAR official as it would be obviously be very difficult for him to show complete impartiality in his role at this important game.

IMO, the whole fiasco stinks and, at last, the blatant corruption that there is in the game has been caught red-handed.

What happens next, or what doesn’t happen next, will be very interesting.

IMO, if the FA don’t investigate this incident fully, then I shall know (and the majority of intelligent football fans) that the FA are complicit and football is totally ****ed.
 

The Clock

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Only issue and where we got screwed is that VAR wasn't fit for purpose as it didn't cover the area of the pitch correctly. That is something that should be addressed but there was no corruption imo. Just typical Wolves bad luck

Just curious - when did they discover VAR wasn't fit for purpose?

Before the game and decided to ignore it?

If the reason it wasn't fit was because there were only five operational calibrated cameras, they would have know this before kick off, wouldn't they?

Non of the ties played this round at stadia that aren't Premier league had VAR. So why not simply announce VAR wouldn't be operational for this game?

At best, it is gross incompetence. At worst it is something more sinister.

If they knew it wasn't working why consult Mike Dean.

And if it wasn't working why was he watching at all?
 

Snarlingwolf

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There was a need to flag though as the assistant referee believed Nunes was offside. He was wrong but it's what he thought
As pointed out earlier, the linesman did not flag when the goal went in!!!!!

The linesman had made HIS decision to keep his flag down and started walking back to the centre and therefore this signified a goal.

The ref didn’t act normally in this situation - there was no need for the ref to ask the linesman anything, looking and seeing his flag down, the ref should’ve immediately pointed to the centre spot to signal a goal! BUT HE DIDN’T!!

The ref went out of his way, IMO, to get the goal disallowed by instructing the linesman to go back and put his flag up.

Compare this referee’s action to most other refs when a goal is scored……
 

Burford T Justice

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The why did he wait so long after the ball went in, and how do you know that this is what he thought?
He waited until the attacking phase had ended, like they are instructed to do. He then checked with the ref and flagged. I know that's what he thought because its what he did. Conspiracies aren't invented in 3 seconds.

Yes Dean has a history of being crap when he refs us, but he isn't to blame here. It's the on field officials for getting it wrong and ITV for not having the correct cameras required.

Its wrong and we got shafted but we aren't the only team it's happened to. It happend against Liverpool when they played Arsenal and Juventus had a goal disallowed which was even more obviously not offside than ours due to similar VAR issues of not having the correct cameras.

VAR needs to be better if it's going to be used
 

Ogerp

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A few important facts that you seemed to have ignored is the considerable “history” of Mike Dean; he resides on the Wirral; he has 2 Liverpool Season Ticket Holder sons.

He should never have been appointed by the FA to be the VAR official as it would be obviously be very difficult for him to show complete impartiality in his role at this important game.

IMO, the whole fiasco stinks and, at last, the blatant corruption that there is in the game has been caught red-handed.

What happens next, or what doesn’t happen next, will be very interesting.

IMO, if the FA don’t investigate this incident fully, then I shall know (and the majority of intelligent football fans) that the FA are complicit and football is totally ****ed.
Not forgetting he was suspended for a season for breaching the terms of his employment contract for not informing the PGMOL of his involvement in an online racehorse syndicate.

Also suspended for one game as VAR this season for his mishandling of the Chelsea- Spurs game as the VAR.
 

ng7wolf

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Would you consider unconscious bias as cheating or not? And would you be happy for it to keep happening time after time after time, or would you at some point complain about it, and say it must stop?
Not cheating as such, unless teams are trying to get refs they see as unconsciously biased to ref their games or something like that. It's definitely not good for the game and is frustrating as hell though. Not sure what we should actually do about it though? Wave banners and placards? Stop going to games? Crowdfund investigative journalists to dig into the subject? All three and more?
 

so-called fan

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He waited until the attacking phase had ended, like they are instructed to do. He then checked with the ref and flagged. I know that's what he thought because its what he did. Conspiracies aren't invented in 3 seconds.

Yes Dean has a history of being crap when he refs us, but he isn't to blame here. It's the on field officials for getting it wrong and ITV for not having the correct cameras required.

Its wrong and we got shafted but we aren't the only team it's happened to. It happend against Liverpool when they played Arsenal and Juventus had a goal disallowed which was even more obviously not offside than ours due to similar VAR issues of not having the correct cameras.

VAR needs to be better if it's going to be used
He's off up the line. He doesn't think it's offside. He flags when he is told to, in no uncertain terms, by the ref jerking his hand up. Why does he need to check with the ref? He's level with the play, could see right along the line. If he thinks it's offside he flags. He doesn't, until he is instructed to.

It's not even an isolated incident. They had already cheated Liverpool into the lead, only to see us equalise.
 

so-called fan

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Not cheating as such, unless teams are trying to get refs they see as unconsciously biased to ref their games or something like that. It's definitely not good for the game and is frustrating as hell though. Not sure what we should actually do about it though? Wave banners and placards? Stop going to games? Crowdfund investigative journalists to dig into the subject? All three and more?
It's the officials who are cheating though, whether it's unconscious bias that is causing it or far more conscious bias, or financial gain. The officials are cheating.
 

Notsoslimshady

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There was a need to flag though as the assistant referee believed Nunes was offside. He was wrong but it's what he thought
If he'd have thought thst he'd have done it straight away. I don't buy it. They let play go on, in case there's a goal. And usually flag when there isn't a goal. On offsides there is no 'clear and obvious' or 'revert to onfield decision'. They put lines out and decide yes or no. Absolutely no need for flag. And if he thought offside, flag up straight away. Sorry, but no. If he believed nunes was off side, flag, not after being told to
 

JOSWolf

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Scott has always been a weak ref to be honest.

Always against us as well. There was a home game of ours in recent months he did where he was awful. Another appalling ref and there seems to be a whole load of them in this country. That should be two wins and and FA Cup 4th round and League Cup Semi Final. All ruined by appalling officiating. Honestly beginning to think what is the point when it seems we are getting awful decisions against us week after week and obvious ones as well. What will be the next dreadful decision against us when we play West Ham at the weekend I wonder?

Have the ****ers even explained what happened on Saturday to the club yet or are they still saying nothing?!
 

Rhoswolf

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ainst us as well. There was a home game of ours in recent months he did where he was awful. Another appalling ref and there seems to be a whole load of them in this country. That should be two wins and and FA Cup 4th round and League Cup Semi Final. All ruined by appalling officiating. Honestly beginning to think what is the point when it seems we are getting awful decisions against us week after week and obvious ones as well. What will be the next dreadful decision against us when we play West Ham at the weekend I wonder?

Have the ****ers even explained what happened on Saturday to the club yet or are they still saying nothing?!
No point bothering mate, not worth getting upset about it, we know it's corrupt but **** all we can do about it. Made my choice and out of attending any more games.
 

JOSWolf

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No point bothering mate, not worth getting upset about it, we know it's corrupt but **** all we can do about it. Made my choice and out of attending any more games.

Thats a real shame mate. Hope you are back soon but I can sort of understand it. VAR and appalling officials are ruining the game and costing us dear the last 2 games. I am sick of it.
 

WWFC4EVA

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No point bothering mate, not worth getting upset about it, we know it's corrupt but **** all we can do about it. Made my choice and out of attending any more games.
Sorry to hear this Rhoswolf but to be honest, I'm of the same mind myself.
Wolves are ****ed over with VAR and we're ****ed over without it!!!
There literally does seem no point anymore!!!
 

JadeWolf

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I remember all these referee apologists saying “decisions even themselves out over a season”. I can’t wait for the dodgy decisions to go our way between now and May, we’re probably owed about 20 to get back to even.
 

sillytuna

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Ok so perhaps I should wait until I see a video but that was right in front of us.

I'm not even fuming any more. The whole thing just seems ****ing pointless.
 

Oh When the Wolves

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What I’d love to know after games is reasons for some decisions

E.g why is neves booked for losing a 50/50 on the edge of his own penalty box, but forest player leaves one on kilman 2 seconds after the ball has gone and it isn’t a yellow

There’s about 10 inconsistencies like this per match .
 

Frank Lincoln

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Apparently the FA are looking at footage of the incident at the end of last nights game at Nottingham Forest. That’s fair enough, though it makes me wonder how the authorities can act so quickly on this, yet have remained in total silence about the disallowed goal incident at Liverpool.
 

Contrarian

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Apparently the FA are looking at footage of the incident at the end of last nights game at Nottingham Forest. That’s fair enough, though it makes me wonder how the authorities can act so quickly on this, yet have remained in total silence about the disallowed goal incident at Liverpool.

So they had cameras actually pointing at that one, then? Surprised.
 

so-called fan

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Not sure whether this has been mentioned elsewhere, but Howard Webb was at Compton today. This is off the BBC:


Referees’ chief Howard Webb met Julen Lopetegui at the club’s Compton training ground today amid grievances over key decisions that have gone against Wolves in their last two games.

Wolves were livid at the process that led to what would have been a winning goal in the FA Cup at Liverpool being disallowed.

Last night, manager Lopetegui claimed referee Graham Jones missed a "clear" penalty for Wolves in the final minutes of their EFL Cup quarter-final with Nottingham Forest, which they eventually lost on penalties.

Webb is working his way round all Premier League clubs following his appointment as PGMOL’s chief refereeing officer at the beginning of last month.

The timing of his visit to Wolves is notable given the strength of feeling at Molineux.
 

JadeWolf

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So the referee didn’t think there was enough contact for it to be a foul. But he says it would have been a free kick if it was outside the box. So there was enough contact then! They’re all a bloody disgrace, sack the bloody lot of them and get the European refs in.
 

Perton Wolf

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So the referee didn’t think there was enough contact for it to be a foul. But he says it would have been a free kick if it was outside the box. So there was enough contact then! They’re all a bloody disgrace, sack the bloody lot of them and get the European refs in.
Scott is a crap Ref and if he actually said that then that's ridiculous but the standard of refereeing isn't all that much better in many European leagues. The reason that UEFA comps are so well refereed in general is because they're the cream of the crop from across the continent, the best of the best.
 

JadeWolf

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Scott is a crap Ref and if he actually said that then that's ridiculous but the standard of refereeing isn't all that much better in many European leagues. The reason that UEFA comps are so well refereed in general is because they're the cream of the crop from across the continent, the best of the best.
That’s kinda my point. The Premier League is the most watched league in the world, with some of the best players, the best coaches. And as fans we pay enough money to expect a high standard across the whole thing. If the best referees in the world are Polish, Slovakian, Jtalian, French, whatever, then it’s not unrealistic to say why can’t they be refereeing in our league. The current referees in the premier league to a man are diabolical.
 
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