How and when can we start playing immersive attacking football.

[wwbug]

On 18 points - brilliant. It is due to our success that we can have the luxury of discussing style.
But if we wanted could we play joined up attacking football ?
I dont see the players to do anything else but passive absorption and hitting teams on the break.
Hwang , Cunha and Sarabia were the only three offensive players last night - at home to a new style Burnley with little Premier league points or experience . That was reduced to 2 attackers later in the match.

From the start yesterday we played back in to our own half and that set the tone , a style that has lasted 6 years. Can we start to change ?
You watch Brentford, Forest, Palace ,West Ham , Villa , Brighton and even Everton and they play large parts of the match on the front foot. They have more than three naturally attacking players on the pitch.
If we did it , how could we set up ?

 

[Stafford]

Suppose, by playing an extra man in midfield, and having a possession based player such as doyle in there. Last night there was a free man at the back and Burnley were happy for us to have it their because we just didn't have that magic player to do anything and eventually we kept getting caught. We were better off just lumping it.

Do we have the current squad for possession football?

.. and we are currently scoring double the goals from last season, with a worse squad.

 

[Zico]

Last night was a hard watch, partly due to Burnley's style. In general we are playing far more entertaining football this season, far more. And we've scored in every game but one. So really don't agree with your premise.

 

[Bostin]

 

[Dorbelflunk]

I'd rather see winning football.

 

[Big Saft Kid]

I understand what 'attacking football' is, but what does 'immersive' mean? My dictionary's definition of the word is '(of a computer display) generating a three-dimensional image which appears to surround the user'. What's that got to do with attacking football?

 

[Ned]

I guess when we have the attacking players who fit the mould. GON has said he wants a number 9 which will mean he can play Cunha exactly how and where he wants.

 

[North West Wanderer]

i think we are great to watch at times, which hasn’t been the case for many a year. i sincerely don’t know what else people can expect given the circumstances.

 

[WKFWolf]

i think we are great to watch at times, which hasn’t been the case for many a year. i sincerely don’t know what else people can expect given the circumstances.

we are scoring a lot more goals, believe Hwang has already outscored our top scorer for the last 3 seasons or is close. first step is to win more games, then GON to build his own squad

 

[FJRWolf]

This season for the most part has been a much more enjoyable experience, last night was an outlier imo. We're far from the finished article but with the players we have and given GON is still quite inexperienced, think the football is fine.
Hopefully it gets even better in the future but it won't happen overnight.

 

[bod101]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

 

[wwbug]

i think we are great to watch at times, which hasn’t been the case for many a year. i sincerely don’t know what else people can expect given the circumstances.

Well lets say the circumstances were that we played Luton, Sheffield and Burnley , and played what many would deem passive defensive football.

 

[Kingswood Wolf]

Dow need it, because I enjoy being gas-lit by Gary, telling me it was actually a good performance last night because Burnley are actually - and literally only Gary sees/thinks/says this - really, really good.

 

[TheRetroChief]

Maybe we’re just not very good at that and we are playing a style which best suits the players we have?
That would seem a sensible thing for a manager to do?
Need I remind you that were it not for VAR we would be pushing for Europe?
What more do you want?

 

[wolfslair]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

We could just start with three, build the foundation of a solid performance then ramp the game up as the oppo tire.

Or in some games have the option off the bench, but while we don’t have RAN start toti at LB as he can cover CB issues in game and also has a good cross when needed if he gets forward and if the case is needed to go to a 5, bring on Bueno while RAN is out.

 

[SteveBullsKnee]

It’s a work in progress for me. Clearly our output is better than the last two seasons as we’re creating more chances and scoring more goals.

(For me) I’m ok with the approach last night. Not a great watch but a game we needed to win to get rid of this monkey off our back of not beating lesser teams so we set up to frustrate and nick one. That’s obviously risky but possibly less risky than being more expansive when two of our most effective attacking players in Neto and RAN are on the treatment table. The approach falls apart obviously if we concede but barring the double save we never really looked in trouble.

As per GONs interview last night (I’m really starting to warm to his interviews) his remit in the summer was to keep us in the division which first and foremost he is doing, style can come afterwards.

 

[jrpb-3]

Makes a change to have a manager that actually seems to enjoy talking to the media. From what we were told about his interview when hired his press conferences etc and also from players about how he explains what he wants, think his communication skills are one of his strengths.

In terms of more expansive football, easier when we have Neto available, and against teams that give us more time/ space on the ball, Cunha carrying the ball Skill from Neto and playing the right balls up to the front players. Even full strength when up against well organised teams who are difficult to break down its going to be more of a battle and needs patience and a bit of quality at the key moments when a chance does come along

 

[MickHolmesFanClub]

Last night's game was dire as a spectacle but it is very much the exception, so far, this season as each of the other home games have been entertaining in my view. Maybe that's because up to now we've played teams expected to finish well above us and last night was the first time the onus was on us to go and dominate the game.
This team is still a work in progress and the way we are now set up is probably not what GON first envisaged when he came in. Results and performances have dictated we play the formation we do at present.

My one major issue last night was not moving the ball quickly enough and, thus, moving Burnley around out of their shape. Neto is clearly very important to how we play and, sadly, it's going to be after Christmas before we see him again and, even then, he may have to be slowly eased back in to avoid a repeat injury, surgery and a premature end to the season. That being the case, GON is going to have to continue to find different ways to play to suit each individual opponent.

 

[North West Wanderer]

Well lets say the circumstances were that we played Luton, Sheffield and Burnley , and played what many would deem passive defensive football.

let’s say the circumstances with zero pre season, 100 odd days in role and limited time to made squad changes all make this seem understandable?

 

[North West Wanderer]

we are scoring a lot more goals, believe Hwang has already outscored our top scorer for the last 3 seasons or is close. first step is to win more games, then GON to build his own squad

absolutely. we weren’t scoring enough and now we are.
We’d be 7th but for var debacles.

 

[Sketchead]

Two new centre halves who are quicker than Kilman and Dawson so we can have another attacking midfielder, e.g. Bellegarde AND Sarabia playing with Hwang and Cunha, with full backs supporting.

Or if we must play a five, against sides that aren't towards the top of the league, we need a more progressive midfielder to join Lemina rather than Lemina and Gomes just there to break up play and do nothing else (yes aware Lemina breaks forward once every couple of games). It's just so stale when we get the ball back, expecting the front three to try and cobble something together without any support.

 

[waltononthehillwolf]

I've been a Wolves fan now for 50 plus years and seen the good the bad and the ugly - I was at the match last night and even though it was a difficult watch at times the result really mattered for me - then today I watched GoN's post match interview and last nights game now makes sense - it was deliberate...

I would much rather have a manager who takes every game on its merits - looks at the opposition - plans in detail the way the team will play and importantly wins more games than he loses rather than have a manager who plays expansive football against every team regardless of those teams strengths and weaknesses and loses most games

 

[Plovdiv Wolf]

Defence would need upgrade in majority of positions. Creative players for attack come at high costs. We now happy being 10th - 17th

 

[Slothmonkey]

I don't think the shape matters a hell of a lot. More about what you do inside the shape. Last night we had many chances to play the early ball out wide to Semedo or into Cunha and we chose to go back or the safer option.

GON states that he likes his teams to be adaptable and I think we have seen that a bit so far. I don't think we will ever see us be a fully free flowing attacking side. I always think we will take the % approach. Try to control the game with and without the ball.

 

[Beastier]

Last night was last night & Burnley's position is such that they inherently played to contain which has a massive bearing on us being able to feed out attackers in the name of a more entertaining & attacking game.

Conversely when we've played some of the big hitters - Spurs, Man City & first half v Liverpool - I think it would be incredibly harsh to say that we haven't been entertaining to watch.

 

[Hoganstolemywife]

This season has showcased the football I've most enjoyed since Nuno.

We are a little frail at the back but we actually score goals. It's such a bloody welcome break

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

If we had Neto fit and RAN available we win that by 3 or 4.
Too many times we played through the press only to play a safe pass which got the opposition get back into shape. And then we worked it back to try and play through the press again. This only going to lead to mistakes at the back which inevitably happen if you aren't taking the opportunity to attack.
We are missing the driving running of Neto, compounded by RANs absence. When we get into the situations where we can hurt teams we are passing up the opportunity too often. Can't wait to have them both back.

 

[Ned]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

Yea last night we were too cautious. Ok we got the win but against these lower sides we should be dominating the ball (or looking to) and playing in their half. An extra man in midfield would mean we can play further up the pitch and put more pressure further forward. Burnley were as comfortable as we were last night only we scored and they didn’t.

 

[Alex Rae The Substitute]

Put an actual ST in that team and I think we’ll probably be far more entertaining. Upgrading Sarabia and Hwang* with a bit of pace too wouldn’t hurt.

*he has been brilliant this season though

 

[Jd132]

It is pretty clear the attack is disjointed at best. But because all of our players have their deficiencies, Gary is setting us up quite rightly to get the points on the board to be comfortable.

If we had two fast yet tall and strong centre backs, a Palhinha/Rodri-esque holding man, an Odegaard-esque no10 and a number nine who could hold it up, run the channels and shoot, we could change our style.

But until we buy all of those building blocks, we may as well go 343 and get points from playing as we are.

 

[AndyWolves]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

I think we do.

Dawson & Kilman both look exposed in a 2

 

[bod101]

I think we do.

Dawson & Kilman both look exposed in a 2

and again i will say we would play a defensive holding midfielder who can drop in to help, we can be more flexible and in this scenario we are more than capable of doing so

 

[Sedgley Gold N Black]

Last night seemed an odd one to put both Lemina and Gomes straight back in, IMV, I know the midfield missed them away at Arsenal but Burnley are very different.

Doyle, or even giving Bellegarde a go in the middle two, would have given us another side to our game and a better balance for me.

We're still very much reliant upon individual talent or a forced error from an attacking POV (and yes the system is getting a lot out of Hwang, Neto and Cunha) but we need to add more to our build up play in possession.

I can't work out if GON is using these sort of games (Ipswich, Sheff Utd, Burnley and Luton) as a chance to practice/experiment a little; we saw the "odd" and sustained high pressing of opposing goal kicks in a few of those, last night it was the consistent really short goal kicks from us, usually you'd vary those things even when they're working well let alone when they aren't! Maybe that's being too generous though to GON.

 

[WolfInSheep'sClothing]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

The obvious answer would be to drop toti or bueno and replace with a more attacking option. But who was available last night? Would Bellegarde on the left have been any better than Bueno? Would be a bit more clear cut if we had RAN or Neto fit to play but we don't.

 

[WolfLing]

I think the long-term aim is 4-2-3-1

But I don't think we have the right number 9, or the right mix of defenders yet to play that way successfully.

The 2 and the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 are locked in for the next few seasons in my opinion.

GK

RB---CB---CB---LB

Lemina--Gomes

Neto---Cunha---Hwang

ST
​

Cunha currently being used down the middle of a front 3, but a floating role off a 9 is his future. We just don't have that suitable 9 yet.

​

I think Ait Nouri is too loose a player to play left back in a 4 (at the moment anyway). To get away with a player like Ait Nouri in a 4, you'd have to have really top class centre backs (like van Dijk at Liverpool covers for Trent's defensive lapses).

If we played a back 4, on paper our best back 4 would probably be Semedo, Dawson, Kilman and Ait-Nouri. But all of them have some level of weakness to their game.

Semedo - concentration
Dawson - pace
Kilman - lack of aggression
Ait Nouri - positioning

That's why I think Toti was mainly preferred at left back under Lopetegui, as it added some solidarity, positional sense and aggression to the back line. Toti effectively makes up for other weaknesses.

I also think Semedo is actually a better player in a 4, as he has less to think about. He's not being asked to be as much a part of the attack as when he plays wing-back.

So Semedo, Dawson, Kilman and Toti probably the best fit at the moment in a 4.

But we don't have a striker to justify switching to a 4-2-3-1 and dropping Ait Nouri yet.

 

[Jawwfc]

I was very critical of Gary after the ipswich the most critical I've been of a manager in years, safe to say I was wrong.

However since then we are doing okay and let's not forget they weren't ideal circumstances in which GON arrived, Lopetegui had basically said the squad wasn't good enough even when he had players like Nunes etc in the squad.

O'Neil has proved that the current crop are good enough but we aren't at the levels of Brighton/Villa at the moment (although things change very quickly in football) but we are comfortably in the mid table positions, although we would be up there if it wasn't for poor referring and VAR!

I think been realistic Gary is outperforming what was expected of the team and doing it quite well.

 

[lobodelsur]

it doesnt need to be gung ho, but take the handbrake off.

we dont need 3 centre halves in many of these games, play an extra man in midfield, have a deep lying midfielder who can help out out at back if its a big worry. even playing on the counter having an outlet in midfield closer to the play would be helpful, everyone back hasn't helped where we have been conceding, if anything we seem to have players leaving it to each other.

Agreed. Hypothetically, playing with 3 CHs we shouldn't need 2 holding midfielders (albeit Lemina has a bit more freedom to push on nowadays). 2 CHs plus a defensive fulcrum (think Busquets, Makalele, Rodri, Pahlinha) in front should be enough if our CHs are quick and strong enough. That releases two players to play further forward and changes the entire dynamic of the team. We are not in a position to do so until we have personnel changes.

 

[Jamwolf]

Yesterday was a 6 pointer from a "mind the gap" perspective. GON had his plan to grind out the 3 points, and while it wasn't pretty it worked.

I expect a less cautious approach against Forest. It ought to be a good game.

 

[WW1963]

I just watched the highlights of West Brom v Leicester.

I think I'll be content with what we've got.

 

[wwbug]

Defence would need upgrade in majority of positions. Creative players for attack come at high costs. We now happy being 10th - 17th

I see that as our position , after 6 years we play 3 (or may be 2) offensive players be it Sheffield or Man City.
It seems so many posters didnt think the question was worth asking , because we are scoring.
We struggled against Sheffield, Luton and Burnley never once looking like the established Premier League team.
Like yesterday , a mistake by a defender means a goal , a win, so that overrides the fact we created little ourselves and we were a poor watch against all the promoted teams. .